User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)

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Arystanbek (talkcontribs)

Please turn on Visual Editor as default for all user on kk.wikipedia.org. Discussion is here

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I have posted this as phab:T97315. Kazakh is a complicated language system, and our support for it is weak at the moment. It might be better to encourage more extensive testing first.

Reply to "VisualEditor on kkwiki"
Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I strong disagree on your edit in Template:ExtensionInstall.

Please, provide a valid reason, or else I'd have to revert, because the minority of users are actually who could use the new wfLoadExtension function. See quantity of wikis using MediaWiki 1.25 vs others

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

If you want to update the template properly, that's great – go ahead. That means:

  1. If registration = yes, show the MW 1.25+ documentation in one block of description and a distinct block for MW 1.24- with very clear warning signs that this is the deprecated method that should only be used if people know the previous method doesn't work.
  2. If registration = no, show the MW 1.24- documentation block with a note that it's still using the old method and will be replaced in the next few weeks (if they're using master) or in the next release (if not).

In the next couple of weeks, we're going to switch the template over to assume that registration = yes by default, so… Remember that using a mixture of wfLoadExtension and the old, slow method is inefficient for users' servers, so we need to encourage people to switch over comprehensively.

Also, please do not threaten to revert people, and in general it's expected that you discuss the merits of edits on the discussion page of the relevant page, rather than hounding the individual who made it on their talk page.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

You are right that my message isn't as polite as one would expect. Still, if you see the edit history of Template:ExtensionInstall, you'll notice the reason for it to be included, which was totally ignored by your edit, so I don't think opening a discussion would make any difference in this case.

Will do my best in editing that template to provide a clear idea that this new method is what needs to be used since MediaWiki 1.25, but older installations need to use the old version. The current situation is simply wrong and will generate lots of complains for users using MediaWiki 1.24 and before that will get a WSOD page.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think you underestimate people. People using out-of-date code (like an MW 1.24.* branch) are generally aware that they shouldn't try adding or configuring anything new as the world has moved on.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

People can just install MediaWiki 1.24, or 1.23 (that's LTS) instead of 1.25 for whatever reason (some specific extensions still not compatible with 1.25, system requirements or just because 1.25 is still too recent) and install extensions for them. You can't negate them the right to do so by obscuring documentation for them

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

LTS is a laughable lie – the 'S' in 'LTS' means support, and no-one supports them except WMF staff doing security patch releases from time to time. We need to stop pretending to people that they're likely to get much or any community support when they're using anything other than the latest release or so.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

Talk to yourself, but thankfully, MediaWiki is not only Wikipedia and WMF staff, and there's a community -in which I'm part of it- supporting them in Project:Support desk. Pretending to drop that support is like pretending to ignore that MediaWiki is running in more than 25000 sites. And that's a disrespectful statement for a lot of developers that probably won't be contributing to MediaWiki if it were close-minded enough to only support WMF wikis

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think you two are talking about different types of support.

You're doing "tech support" at Project:Support desk—answering questions that people have about (for example) how to install it or troubleshoot it. That awesome community provides support for all versions, regardless of how old, so long as someone there knows the answer or is interested in finding out what it is.

The "S" in "Long-term support" isn't about tech support; it's about dev support. It's about things like porting new security patches back to older versions. There are very few people doing that, and I would not be surprised at all to learn that most (or even all) of them are employed by the WMF.

Or, to give an analogy, I have an old Mac Plus (with a whole megabyte of RAM!) in the basement, and I can certainly find a community online that would cheerfully provide "tech support" on how to set it up again. But it's no longer "supported" in the sense of new software or updates to old software being created for it. It is unsupported hardware, even if it's possible to get answers to my questions about it.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I don't see what's the point of your message to the whole conversation here, sorry.

There are a lot of MediaWiki installations out there that need longer terms for upgrading, because they rely on extensions that usually are broken on every new MediaWiki release and need some time for devs to fix them. Often because of problems with the release team (see phab:T66157).

Security fixes are not hard to backport, so I don't see what's the problem of maintaining LTS. If you ever remove LTS releases, I imagine the next step is to remove support for stable MediaWiki releases, only supporting current master or WMF branches. Who would put the limit, here?

Reply to ""Minority of users""
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

{{subst:#ifeq:{{subst:CONTENTLANG}}|en||I apologize for sending this message in English.}}

You are receiving this message because a technical change may affect a bot, gadget, or user script you have been using. The breaking change involves API calls. This change has been planned for two years. The WMF will start making this change on 30 June 2015. A partial list of affected bots can be seen here: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-June/081931.html This includes all bots that are using pywikibot compat. Some of these bots have already been fixed. However, if you write user scripts or operate a bot that uses the API, then you should check your code, to make sure that it will not break.

What, exactly, is breaking? The "default continuation mode" for action=query requests to api.php will be changing to be easier for new coders to use correctly. To find out whether your script or bot may be affected, then search the source code (including any frameworks or libraries) for the string "query-continue". If that is not present, then the script or bot is not affected. In a few cases, the code will be present but not used. In that case, the script or bot will continue working.

This change will be part of 1.26wmf12. It will be deployed to test wikis (including mediawiki.org) on 30 June, to non-Wikipedias (such as Wiktionary) on 1 July, and to all Wikipedias on 2 July 2015.

If your bot or script is receiving the warning about this upcoming change (as seen at https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=allpages ), it's time to fix your code!

Either of the above solutions may be tested immediately, you'll know it works because you stop seeing the warning.

Do you need help with your own bot or script? Ask questions in e-mail on the mediawiki-api or wikitech-l mailing lists. Volunteers at m:Tech or w:en:WP:Village pump (technical) or w:en:Wikipedia:Bot owners' noticeboard may also be able to help you.

Are you using someone else's gadgets or user scripts? Most scripts are not affected. To find out if a script you use needs to be updated, then post a note at the discussion page for the gadget or the talk page of the user who originally made the script. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) ~~~~~

Reply to "Bots"
Mahitgar (talkcontribs)

We received message through . ‎MediaWiki message delivery to test IME at https://wikimedia.github.io/VisualEditor/demos/ve/desktop-dist.html#!pages/simple.html. I wanted to test mr and hi devnagari script, Alas both the scripts IME could not be activated, may be still not enabled. So as of now test failed before we begin :(

Rgds

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for responding! Could you tell me what browser and what IME you are using for these?

Mahitgar (talkcontribs)
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/37.0.1/releasenotes/   

About IME , the test page only displayed language names and did not display any of usual IME options available under ULS (UniversalLanguageSelector Extension)

Or is it that it that still ULS is not enabled but we can use external IMEs . 30 % of Marathi language users use Google input tools I will ask more people to test with diferent IMEs step by step Thanks and rgds

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

ULS testing is going to be worked on by the Language Engineering team, but right now it's not enabled, that's right. Did you try out the Google input tools or an external IME for these?

Mahitgar (talkcontribs)

>>Did you try out the Google input tools or an external IME for these?<< I wanted to know which user types to be diverted for testing, I will start diverting the users now, thanks.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you.

If you (or other community members) have an IME that is active in VisualEditor, it would be particularly great if you could use this logger to create a trace of exactly what happens when you use one or two of the IMEs so that we can definitively work out what causes the issues and how we can solve them? If so, please copy the log it outputs and e-mail it to me (or post on-wiki).

Many thanks!

Reply to "mr and hi still not enabled"

VisualEditor (Japanese) MS Office IME glitches

2
Kiyoweap (talkcontribs)

I tested the Visual Editor and found problems inputting while using MS Office IME 2010 (Windows 7, Internet Explorer). Acts as if it randomly accepts an "enter" key input, even whenI have not yet pressed "enter", having only manipulated arrow keys and space bar.

This either results in rendering unconverted pure-hiragana text ("ありがとう" instead of "有難う") or at other times when I try to convert the entire "ありがとう" it gets split the word up and starts converting just the "あり" part.

I think Visual Editor would be great for new users who find it overtaxing to use markup. But currently, the input is too glitchy so I can only recommend that Japanese-speakers create a draft using their own favorite editor and copy&paste the texts, footnotes, etc. --~~~~

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello!

Thank you for this information.

If you have the time, would it be possible for you to use this logger to create a trace of exactly what happens when you use the IME so that we can definitively work out what causes the issues and how we can solve them? If so, please copy the log it outputs and e-mail it to me (or post on-wiki).

Thanks!

Reply to "VisualEditor (Japanese) MS Office IME glitches"

Starting conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow at mediawiki.org

2
Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello. I'm sending this to you, because you've been one of the top 50 users of LQT on mediawiki.org over the last 360 days, and I wanted to make sure that you'd seen the announcement at Starting conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow at mediawiki.org. There are links in the topic-summary at the top, for other discussions (wikitech-l and Project:Current_issues), and a link to the planned process and timeline (scheduled to begin April 6, with smaller conversions at first). Please do test Flow out at Talk:Sandbox if you haven't tried it recently, and give any feedback/suggestions/requests at that main discussion location. Much thanks.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Great to hear. :-)

Reply to "Starting conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow at mediawiki.org"

All WMF Projects should follow VisualEditor's Lead

7
Ckoerner (talkcontribs)

I'm really liking the idea of the triage meetings for VisualEditor. I sat in on the last one and look forward to the next. As a third-party user/admin it's a great way to be involved and provide insight into the decision making process. Are there plans for the other WMF-led projects to do the same? Echo, MobileFrontend, CirrusSearch, Flow, etc?

If not, how could someone outside, such as myself, propose such a thing?

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know about other teams' plans, but yes, I think that could be a good move. I worry a bit that it'd be over-whelming to have e.g. ten weekly public meetings, though – if I'm a volunteer and interested in a bunch of different things, do I just have to pick the ones I can do? If they're rotating the times at which they're occurring, who gets to go first, etc.?

Echo, MobileFrontend per se (it's complicated) and CirrusSearch aren't active under development currently (just maintenance), but Flow certainly is – for that, you should ask User:DHorn (WMF).

Other user-facing projects underway which might want to do this are:

There's also Wikidata itself, led by User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE), and several less user-facing projects – the Wikidata Query Service, front-end standardisation work, the continuous integration workstream, the general Platform backlog and several others.

Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talkcontribs)

I am always happy to have help with triaging Wikidata bugs :) I currently do not have the time however to do regular triage sessions on IRC myself. If you want to talk more and help please do reach out.

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

Hello, we stopped with the IRC triage sessions due to a lack of time and audience. Its an ongoing process for us so triages do happen all the time. We'd be happy to hold similar sessions in future (not immediate). Until that time, if there is enough interest we can make it a part of the office hour that happens every month. Thanks for the suggestion.

Rdicerb (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Runa, that's good to know!

Rdicerb (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Ckoerner, thank you for that feedback - we are considering building meetings like this or similar into the product development lifecycle and need to look into ways of making it scalable in terms of the technology used (Webex vs. GHangout vs. Hangout on Air). Certainly, checking with other teams to see where they're at and whether they're able to accommodate these meetings are a great idea - I can imagine it might not always be useful to do so, but there are other mechanisms that can be used to give more insight into the decision making and development process :)

Ckoerner (talkcontribs)

I appreciate you taking the time. You're all doing good work and I think you all have done a commendable job for communicating the complex work you do. I'll dig in with some of the suggestions and see where I can not only learn more but help too!

Reply to "All WMF Projects should follow VisualEditor's Lead"
Syum90 (talkcontribs)

Please, block this vandal: User:S-e-x f-u-c-k-i-n-g-i-d-i-o-t

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hey, I see that it's already been done. Thanks for the alert, though.

Syum90 (talkcontribs)

Okay, greetings.

78.29.154.146 (talkcontribs)

Mas porque Eu sou queria copar os jogos do Sonic

37.233.27.142 (talkcontribs)

41emJQ I've read a few good stuff here. Definitely worth bookmarking for revisiting. I surprise how much effort you put to make such a wonderful informative site.

Reply to "Block vandal"
Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Gummi bear saying "thank you" for the VE tables.
Reply to "Pic"
Be..anyone (talkcontribs)

This is a dead project, the last finished report with a proper summary was published in August. September is a draft without summary, October doesn't exist (also redirected, if you want it as red link delete that also.) See also Thread:Project:Current_issues/Wikimedia_Engineering_reports.

Guillaume (WMF) (talkcontribs)

"Delayed" doesn't mean "dead". I've responded in more length in the other thread you started.

Reply to "Engineering report"
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