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Activating EN language on my MW access, there is no "Skin" tab on Preferences menu.
Should "Appearance" be the right word in the article?
Here the sentence at the beginning of the page
To try out the available skins and change skin, click on the Preferences link while logged in, then click on the "Skin" tab
Thanks
Yeah, the skins section was moved into a general rendering tab a few years ago; I've fixed the reference.
Dears
reading T:12 my understanding about Most content pages, not talk pages
is:
The purpose of the writer was focalized that the tool should be used mainly to produce content page, since this is the aim of the improvement.
Using VE for talk page is only a consequence of the high number of content page produced.
This standpoint, if confirmed, have an influence on the accurate translation of the message.
Furthermore I will suggest the following change:
VisualEditor is not currently available for Wikipedia: neither pages nor talk pages.
Regards
This sentence is talking about all pages, not just about the Wikipedia namespace. The term "content pages" is meaningful. See for example the split between content and non-content pages on stats.wikimedia.org. "Pages" includes everything in MediaWiki, including content pages, user pages, templates, and discussion pages.
(Also, this discussion should be on Talk:VisualEditor/Portal not here.)
I propose to change some items from the crowded MediaWiki:Sidebar on mediawiki.org. Because it's crowded.
Thoughts?
That looks good for me.
The items "Create a book" and "Printable version" are not editable from MediaWiki:Sidebar. The first one is provided by an extension that would need to be disabled or uninstalled for this wiki. The second one is a core MediaWiki feature that has no option to disable AFAIK.
Seems good. If you rename "Communication" to "Get help and support" I would also suggest renaming "User help" to something else to reduce confusion. btw "User help" also has what I guess is a truncated mouseover ("The place to find out") which should either be fixed or removed.
I think this is a good idea. I agree with Clump that renaming "User help" would be useful too. In Dutch that is simply called "Help", so, looking at the title on Help:Contents, "MediaWiki.org help pages" perhaps?
Thanks, that makes sense, yes. Probably "User help" should become "User manual" to be aligned with "Technical manual" (though naming these things is very inconsistent across wiki pages).
Regarding the tooltip, that's literally what's in MediaWiki Core's languages/i18n/en.json file for tooltip-n-help: "The place to find out".
I am always happy with focussing to important things. Many wikis do offer a confusing bunch of very very interesting links, in the end nothing will be found by newbies any more. Go ahead.
For those confused like I was, "User help" is MediaWiki:Help which is over-ridden in English, Farsi, Russian, and Polish, but not other languages where it's just "Help" like on other wikis.
Changed in 2007, presumably to differentiate it from help with installing MW.
The only one I would disagree with is "Main Page" I unfortunately deal with too many sites & systems where the logo either doesn't go back to the main page or goes somewhere unexpected, so I always try to hunt out a main page type link on systems i'm not familiar with.
Meanwhile I examined all links in detail.
wiki:xxx everywhere. I asked for that modification. MediaWiki:{{REVISIONID}}, is fine.Even if not configurable by system message or Local.php, undesired items may be hidden via site CSS for all users, or for anonymous.
Dears,
a clarification need in the message T:4
Reading the criteria I understood:
'''$AutoConfirmAge''' (Interval of (elapsed) time (in number of seconds) between the creation of the account to the time which qualification was achieved)
Is this the real meaning of that variable?
Could you help me to make the statement more simple?
Regards
Your understanding seems mostly correct. This may be a bit more correct:
Interval of elapsed time (in number of seconds) since the creation of the account to qualify.
Movement Strategy and Governance News
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Hi all,
Volunteers in the 2022 Board of Trustees election are invited to vote for statements to use in the Election Compass. You can vote for the statements you would like to see included in the Election Compass on Meta-wiki.
An Election Compass is a tool to help voters select the candidates that best align with their beliefs and views. The community members will propose statements for the candidates to answer using a Lickert scale (agree/neutral/disagree). The candidates’ answers to the statements will be loaded into the Election Compass tool. Voters will use the tool by entering in their answer to the statements (agree/disagree/neutral). The results will show the candidates that best align with the voter’s beliefs and views.
Here is the timeline for the Election Compass:
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Best,
Movement Strategy and Governance
This message was sent on behalf of the Board Selection Task Force and the Elections Committee
nothing to discuss
Dears,
please help me to understand the message T:36.
The picture clearly shows a Wikipedia translating step. Is this message valide for translation on MediaWiki or in translatewiki.net?
I have never seen this kind of message while translating operation on MW. There are come cases where the string suggested by Apertium does not require any adjustment. Everything goes well!!
So, is there some modification to do on the EN page?
Regards
This page is under Help:Content translation. Extension:ContentTranslation (CX), used on Wikipedias, has nothing to do with Extension:Translate, used on mediawiki.org, Translatewiki, Meta and a few other wikis (but not Wikipedias). So I don’t think the English page needs modification, since the page title already implies that it only applies to CX, not Translate. By the way, there’s a feature request to add warnings in Translate as well, but it’s far from being implemented yet.
For translation of local pages, on page Special:Tags and because it is a system page, how do we retrieve the ID of messages still left in EN and where can they be found to adapt their translation ?
Example: 'Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)' in my FR Special:Tags page version of line 'Potentially problematic translation' is a mix between EN terms and FR ones and need to be FR aligned. Looking for 'Tagged by filter' on translatewiki.net has provided no satisfying results. Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 08:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Click on the "Edit" link next to the "Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)".
Translate {{Tag description}}.
ok good => this step allows to translate strings "Tagged by filter..." Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 09:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
... no such Edit link on the page ; @Ciencia Al Poder may be not enough rights for me ?
not here and if i follow yours it says it is protected;
Vous n’avez pas le droit de6v modifier cette page, pour la raison suivante : Cette page fournit du texte d’interface pour le logiciel sur ce wiki et est protégée pour éviter les abus. Pour ajouter ou modifier des traductions sur tous les wikis, veuillez utiliser translatewiki.net, le projet de régionalisation de MediaWiki.
where to request ?
Wladek92 asks to translate the "Potentially problematic translation" text, which is placed at MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation. Editing MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation/fr to provide a French translation requires some special rights. You can put here the translation text and I can create the page with it.
Yes nice, and if I go on this MediaWiki:Tag-Pot.... , they say "To add or change translations for all wikis, please use translatewiki.net, the MediaWiki localisation project." So I have wondered why not to rely on translatewiki.net for that ?
If I take the example of tag 'mobile web edit' I construct key ID => 'MediaWiki:Tag-mobile web edit' which exists on https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Tag-mobile_web_edit/fr => 'Modification par le web mobile ' and that I find back under 'Appearance on change lists'
By adding suffix '-description' for the column beside named 'full description of meaning' I construct key ID 'MediaWiki:Tag-mobile web edit-description/fr' which gives 'Modification effectuée depuis le site web mobile'
This sounds good with what I get. So for a first shot of my concern, I have created => https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially_problematic_translation/fr and https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially_problematic_translation-description/fr.
We should be able to find a solution with translatewiki.net for all other messages of Special:Tags and all languages.
Now as we know starting from the tag name XXX in Mediawiki, how to access the text MediaWiki:Tag-XXX/xx and the description MediaWiki:Tag-XXX-description/xx on translatewiki, the problem would be to bring back the translated strings. I have not enough knowledge about that, but this action is to be managed. May be the process already exists (?) and simply because the /fr messages were not existing, EN were used as fallback.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:25, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
The per-template base seems not really adapted because there is a lot of other untransaled items on this Special:Tags page (about 32 lines are concerned). If my proposal here (here above) with translatewiki.net is pertinent I 'll solve all of them point per point.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:39, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
While I understand the fanciness of being able to translate the message without edit-interface rights, invoking a template with the #ifexists parser function on a message that can appear potentially thousands of times on Special:RecentChanges or Special:Watchlist, which already have serious performance problems, can probably cause more harm than good
So I have created the FR items herebelow on translatewiki.net for missing FR texts and [this topic] they advice me to 1)create the English base (otherwise it's impossible to translate correctly) 2) make it part of a translation project or subproject for some Mediawiki extension 3.appears in the Translate UI.
Question: what is the next step for us ?
MediaWiki:Tag-Added PHP closing tag-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Added PHP closing tag/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Anonymous updated project status-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Anonymous updated project status/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Blocked user editing own talk page/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Emoji-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-New user blanking page-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-New user blanking page/fr MediaWiki:Tag-New user editing project page-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-New user editing project page/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1188-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1261-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1352-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1805-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1841-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 2071-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 21-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 31-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 429-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-OTRS permission added by non-OTRS member/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Possible LTA-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Possible LTA/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Rapid reverts/en MediaWiki:Tag-Rapid reverts/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Short translation-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-Short translation/fr MediaWiki:Tag-blanking-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-blanking/fr MediaWiki:Tag-deletion template removed-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-deletion template removed/fr MediaWiki:Tag-meta spam id/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link or email/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link-description/email/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link/email/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link/fr MediaWiki:Tag-newbie translation documentation edit/fr MediaWiki:Tag-ntsamr (global)/email/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible out of scope-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible out of scope/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible vandalism-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-possible vandalism/fr MediaWiki:Tag-repeated xwiki CoI abuse/fr MediaWiki:Tag-repeating characters-description/fr MediaWiki:Tag-repeating characters/fr
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 15:18, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
Those translations don't belong to translatewiki.net, because those tags are specific to MediaWiki.org website and not common to all MediaWiki installations. They should be translated on this wiki.
Since these tags are defined on-wiki, they don’t, and shouldn’t, belong to any code repository, so they won’t ever be migrated from translatewiki.net to the code repository, and thus won’t be imported to mediawiki.org. They should be deleted over there, and all translation needs to happen locally (through edit requests unless you’re a local admin).
Thanks all for these informations. You can easily understand how difficult it is for a beginnner to guess what to do. Here are the steps I have followed:
Solution proposal:
Any advice ? Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 07:48, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
I exported the list of pages from TWN, and my idea was to import them here, but I'm unable to do so because Special:Import on this wiki doesn't allow uploading an XML file for importing. What kind of black magic is this?
I don't know if there's a way to easily import those pages.
Edit: Looks like this can only be done by a bureaucrat on this wiki.
- Stregthen/adapt/change/remove the warning message "please use translatewiki.net, the MediaWiki localisation project" discouraging users to go there and make orphaned translations
For me, it’s clear, and I think it would be clear as a beginner non-developer as well: this particular message exists only here, so it should be translated here. To stop people like you for whom it’s not clear, I think a better solution is to simply disallow the creation of the translation:
Edit: Looks like this can only be done by a bureaucrat on this wiki.
Not even bureaucrats, only importers (requires uploadimport right, see Special:ListGroupRights#import)—all four of which happen to be bureaucrats as well.
I imported the messages (based on my quick skim it looks fine) and have created a thread on the TWN side to get those pages deleted: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Thread:Support/Please_delete_some_messages
Let me know if there's anything else I need to do.
woaw, wonderful and already operational ! Next time we should left an open door for rereading by other users (it is always better), when rereading will be operational again (of course...). May be someone will have better expressions working in the context, but for a first shot I m pretty satisfied. Thanks all. Dont hesitate to ask me FR directed translations when needed rather than me picking up translations at random.
@Legoktm @Ciencia Al PoderJust as a complement; we have lost the filter information 'tagged by...’. When no description field existed, take the FR text. When tag template is already present, the description field should hold the FR text + the tag template. This occurs in: Potentially problematic, Repeating char, Possible vandalism, New user project page, Short translation,...
@Wladek92: sorry, I haven't really been following this thread, I just jumped in because @Ciencia Al Poder pinged me as I have importupload permissions. If I messed something up happy to fix it but otherwise I'm going to respectfully bow out unless I'm needed again.
ok, so can I have a READ access (path to source/history you have changed) and a code mentor ID to correct the source and propose a version of what is concretly expected ? Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 07:19, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
See Special:Contributions/Legoktm.
As per changes to the messages, you'll have to ask here, on a new thread or on the talk page of those messages (although they may get unnoticed)
ok but we dont see really what has been done: before= empty / new=empty ; see here . The last request to Legoktm (he has made a substitution) was to ADD the missing description AND keep what exists because we have lost now the "Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)" of @ Shirayuki herabove .
Can you be more specific? Legoktm imported the messages as you wrote them on TWN. If more modifications are needed just request them: message to edit and what needs to be edited.
yes but I have already listed that hereabove
After rereading I ve put here below the modifications to apply in the current version of Special:Tags FR (that is applied above the first Legoktm FR update attempt) and for the following items. (Caution: translatewiki.net pages are now already deleted) .
We want to see (new displayed) = new translated text + (old text when if exists)
and he has done (new displayed) = new translated
so we have lost the call to the template for corresponding tags and filtering information is now missing. Please read the topic to understand what to request.
Sorry to break for now, but i have a mission with disabled people starting to morrow , Thanks all and hasta la vista till the end of next week.
EN : Potentially problematic translation Potentially problematic translation Tagged by filter 76 (hist · logs) FR : Add filter line template to correct the FR description Il est possible que le texte proposé pour la traduction soit contraire ou n'ait aucun rapport avec l'original. Labellisé par le filtre 76 (hist · journaux) --------------------------------- EN : repeating characters Repeating characters This edit contains a highly repetitive character sequence, like "!!!!!!!" or "hahahahahahaha". Tagged by filter 79 (hist · logs) FR : Add filter line template to correct the FR description Cette modification contient une séquence de caractères répétés trop souvent comme "!!!!!!!" ou "hahahahahahaha". Labellisé par le filtre 79 (hist · journaux) --------------------------------- EN : possible vandalism possible vandalism This edit contains blanks a portion of a page in bad faith Tagged by filter 66 (hist · logs) FR : Add filter line template to correct the FR description Cette modification contient de nombreuses lignes blanches douteuses, sur une portion de la page Labellisé par le filtre 66 (hist · journaux) --------------------------------- EN : New user editing project page New user editing project page Tagged by filter 72 (hist · logs) FR : Add lifters line template to correct the FR description Un contributeur nouveau vient de modifier la page du projet Labellisé par le filtre 72 (hist · journaux) --------------------------------- EN : Short translation Short translation Tagged by filter 76 (hist · logs) FR : Add filters line template to correct the FR Description : Peu de termes traduits; la traduction est peut être douteuse ou inachevée Labellisé par le filtre 76 (hist · journaux) --------------------------------- EN : OAuth CID: 1261 SWViewer [1.2] App to view recent changes on small wikis for SWMT. Diffs, whitelist, quick reverts, etc. See w:ru:User:Iluvatar/SWViewer. FR : missing user value Add user value to correct the FR Description : OAuth CID: 1261 SWViewer [1.2] Application qui affiche les modifications récentes sur les petits wikis pour SWMT. Les Diffs, listes blanches, annulations rapides, etc. Voir w:ru:User:Iluvatar/SWViewer. --------------------------------- EN: OAuth CID: 1188 SWViewer [1.0] SPA (but auth process in php) for viewing queue of edits on small wikis for SWMT. Diffs, whitelist, reverts. Will be hosted on Labs. Desktop version [[ru:user:Iluvatar/SWViewer]] . FR : missing user value Add user value to correct the FR Description : SPA (processus en PHP) pour afficher la file d'attente des modifications sur les petits wikis pour SWMT. Les Diffs, listes blanches, annulations. Version pour ordinateur de bureau [[ru:user:Iluvatar/SWViewer]]. ---------------------------------
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 13:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
Since nobody else would be able to review the changes until you come back, it would be better to wait until you come back, and maybe delete all those imported messages in the meantime if they're incorrect or misleading.
Since the changes need to be done by a sysop, that may not know French enough, it would be good if you create a subpage on your userpage, with a table with 2 columns:
Now if the development made for MediaWiki.org becomes a supported extension that can/should be reusable for other wiki, it's up to Mediawiki.org developers to open-source that development into a deployable module/extension with its own repository (posibly with some more adaptations to work with other wikis, notably by avoiding to use hardcoded references to other contents specific to Mediawiki.org that cannot be tweaked for use on other wikis, such as includion of service URIs, local templates, local user names...).
At that time, you can request an import right for that project, and start importing an XML file (maybe outside the main "MediaWiki" namespace, just like what was done for Miraheze for example in its own namespace for that/those extension(s), or coordinated with other extensions maintained for Mediawiki itself if you really want to keep the generic "MediaWiki" namespace, but probably with prefixes for each message name).
Of course you should then prepare the translations in English (because for now it's impossible to use any other base language for translations; but may be you should allow correcting that English base by allowing translations e.g. in "en-US": when exporting from TWN, you'll detect those suggeted changes/corrections, will review these en-US transltions to fix the "en" base in your project, then reimport them, once curated, into the "en" base; this is a posible solution to avoid havnig many admin requests posted in TWN support pages, or in your project.
Anyway I really suggest that for local development specific to MediaWiki.org, you rename all your needed messages with a common prefix and not just the "MediaWiki:" namespace, which continues to be filled in by supported core messages or extensions/skins messages. So for now they should probably be renamed from "MediaWiki:Tag-*" to "MediaWiki:Wikimedia-Tag-*" (possibly as well with other prefixes or for unprefixed messages) because they are specific to the Wikimedia local instance of the MediaWiki documentation wiki, cleaning up that namespace to avoid collisions with future developments in supported extensions maintained by other teams (including those for use outside Wikimedia: look at what was done for Miraheze or BlueSpice extensions that also use their own prefixes).
Note that even for supported generic extensions for MediaWiki, they all have (or should have already) their own prefix for each translation group. This is needed to help manage the content of that namespace and fix orphaned translations (notably those that are left from old versions that have been replaced over time), without having to make extensive searches and manage new bug requests after their deployments to other wikis.
And anyway, any translation imported from TWN for new messages (or messages whose base English source was updated, except if these updates are fixing minor typos in English and not altering the functionality, excluding for example changes that affect embedded translation variables like "$1", or rename/reorder them for plural/gender support) should first be imported in a test wiki for local curation, and not directly on the production sites. Then Wikimedia Phabricator tasks can be used to validate those curated messages for later deployment on other Wikimedia wikis or to be included in supported projects deployable to other non-WM wikis.
I would like to suggest an improvement for T:34.
Could divide it into smaller translation unit?
At least two or three.
What do you think?
Thanks
Currently, you have to use the 2017 wikitext editor as a beta feature but I am asking if MediaWiki.org will switch to the 2017 wikitext editor by default because its stable and nice. It also fits with translatable pages.
Strange request because I have read that the WYSIWYG Visual Editor will become the rule. Invoked reason: less needs to correct the source directly. Points of view welcomed!
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
I don't think that will happen until phab:T202921 ("Re-design the Editing preferences to make it easier to pick the editing environment that you want to use"). That should happen before phab:T104479, which is AFAICT the nearest ticket to "Move 2017WTE out of Beta Features".
Page Help:VisualEditor/VE_as_the_main_editor "the visual editor becomes available by default" ... leads me to say that, because it is the opposite way of "switch to the 2017 wikitext editor by default". Thanks to Preferences settings users can get what he wants.
The language around "default" is complicated. What's "available by default" is different from "the default". Here is my opinion:
So I would say that the visual editor is already "available by default" at this wiki (you don't have to take any action to have access to it), and that it is "the default" at this wiki for some actions (e.g., editing) but not for others (e.g., reverting and translating). I would also say that the 2010 WikiEditor is "available by default" at this wiki and also "the default" at this wiki for some actions (e.g., reverting).
