Talk:Content translation/V2

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About this board

This is feedback page about the next version of Content translation tool.

Also, it will help us a lot if you will indicate the following things:

  • Which article were you translating and to which language.
  • Which browser did you use (Firefox, Chrome, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera, etc.)
  • If you're getting any errors, please provide log from browser console if possible. To open browser console: press Ctrl+Shift+J (or Cmd+Shift+J on a Mac).

In case you are familiar with phabricator, please consider reporting a bug there. When reporting issue, please add CX2 in topic.

See also:

Section titles trigger "article is too small" filter

4
Ата (talkcontribs)

Even with all paragraphs fully translated I see ukwiki abuse filter notification next to the section titles. (It doesn't prevent page creation.)

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

Hi,

Thanks for the report.

I have passed it on to the developers, however I see at least one issue with the filter itself. Its code says (article_articleid == 0), and according to the AbuseFilter user manual, article_articleid is deprecated. Can anyone who maintains AbuseFilter in the Ukrainian Wikipedia check this? This may have to be updated.

Tagging this filter's maintainers: @Sergento, @Dim Grits, @Yakudza, @NickK, @Ilya.

Thanks!

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

I just received a very similar complaint about the Russian Wikipedia from @Раммон. The filter definition in the Russian Wikipedia also uses (article_articleid == 0). Even though I'm not sure that this is the thing that causes the problem, it should be corrected. @Q-bit array, @OneLittleMouse, can you please take a look?

In any case, I'm passing this on to Content Translation developers.

Раммон (talkcontribs)

This problem raised again. Please, resolve it.

Reply to "Section titles trigger "article is too small" filter"
NicoV (talkcontribs)

Could you add an easily visible link to report bugs in Phabricator in the page describing V2 ? It seems that V2 has been activated on some wikis (like frwiki), but the link on the tag brings to this page, without an obvious mean to report the problems in Phabricator.

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

In fact, it's activated in all languages in an opt-in mode. Every user who enabled the beta feature can enable and disable CX2 from the dashboard using the link "Try the new version". However, we do gradually ping some of the larger wikis and ask for detailed comments.

We read both this page (Talk:Content translation/V2) and the usual talk page (Talk:Content translation) every day, and both pages are acceptable places for bug reports.

If you want to report a bug in Phabricator, you can use the same tag, #ContentTranslation. You can add "CX2" to the title to emphasize that the task is about the new version.

NicoV (talkcontribs)
Amire80 (talkcontribs)

Oh, I see what you mean. Good idea. I'll pass it on.

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the feedback @NicoV.

We want to keep this page as the main feedback entry point to support a wider audience, supporting users that can share their experience but are not familiar with Phabricator and bug reporting. Having said that, I agree that we can make it easier for those users that are familiar with Phabricator. I added the link for ticket creation to Phabricator in the information sidebar of this page. It is also present in the "Provide feedback" section of the page.

Reply to "Report bugs ?"

Překlad citačních šablon do češtiny (Czech)

1
194.228.23.145 (talkcontribs)

Překládal jsem Haarova míra do češtiny z angličtiny a asi nejhorší bylo, že se nepřeloží citační šablony. A anglické nefungují. Buď by se měly ty anglické zprovoznit i na české wiki, nebo by je nástroj měl správně překládat. Jan Spousta

Reply to "Překlad citačních šablon do češtiny (Czech)"

The tool should not be translating references...

5
TMagen (talkcontribs)

but it is :(

In articles with many references, the amount of work this entails to fix is so out of the park, that it simply isn't feasible.

In Hebrew - the link button is also exactly as far as it can be from the working text, which seems like a pretty severe usability issue. Also, I can't remove links, and for some reason if I do "copy/paste" to any text, it inserts a link to ENWIKI (which is also a big NO).

Too much of the additional functionality is hidden behind menus, entailing additional clicks (like italics and bold).

Those are my main issues so far.

Details: Translating Cinema of Africa from English to Heberw

Using Chrome.

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

In articles with many references, the amount of work this entails to fix is so out of the park, that it simply isn't feasible. -> What do you mean exactly by "translating references"? Can you please give an example?

In Hebrew - the link button is also exactly as far as it can be from the working text -> When you say "the link button", do you mean the "chain" button in the toolbar? Or the panel that shows the title of the target article? Or something else? By the way, in the old version there is no link button at all, and in both versions linking is automatically suggested if you select some text (although there are some bugs with it in the new version, which we will soon fix). Also, you can use Ctrl-K to add a link, like in Visual Editor, Microsoft Word, Gmail, and Google Docs (Command-K if you are on a Mac computer).

Too much of the additional functionality is hidden behind menus, entailing additional clicks (like italics and bold). -> This works almost the same way as it works in Visual Editor. You can use Ctrl-B and Ctrl-I for bold and italic, like in Visual Editor, Microsoft Word, Gmail, and Google Docs (Command-K if you are on a Mac computer). The idea is to allow most of the actions that are available in Visual Editor also while translating—not only Bold and Italic, but also adding references, templates, math, etc. Perhaps our designer @Pginer-WMF may want to add something about this.

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

Also, I can't remove links -> This is supposed to be possible. If you click on a link, a panel appears in the sidebar. This panel has a "trash can" icon. If you click, the link is supposed to turn into plain text. Does it work?

for some reason if I do "copy/paste" to any text, it inserts a link to ENWIKI (which is also a big NO). -> I confirm, thanks. Reported at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T210173

TMagen (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the quick response!

1) References that are not links are being translated - they look like this:

Gugler, ג ' וזף (2003). אפריקה הסרט: לדמיין מחדש את היבשת.

or -

  1. Diawara (1992). אפריקה קולנוע, עמ ' 23-24. ראה גם הנלי, פול (2010),הרפתקה של ממש: ג 'ין Rouch וכלי הטיס אתנוגרפי קולנוע, שיקגו: הוצאת אוניברסיטת שיקגו, עמ' 310-337.
  2. לקפוץ מעלה^Diawara (1992). אפריקה קולנוע, עמ ' 23-24. ראה גם הנלי, פול (2010),הרפתקה של ממש: ג 'ין Rouch וכלי הטיס אתנוגרפי קולנוע, שיקגו: הוצאת אוניברסיטת שיקגו, עמ' 310-337.

The references are not in the text, and so I don't translate them when I translate the text, and anyway, they shouldn't be translated :)

you can see this in the article "הקולנוע האפריקאי" on hewiki, I've fixed most already, I'll leave the rest for the time being.

2) Links - not the chain icon, when you highlight text and it recognizes the link, there is a button "הוספת הקישור" - it's to the far left at the top of the panel section. I will probably adjust to this, it isn't a show stopper, but I do notice it while working. Thanks for the shortcut tip!

I'll continue to work with the tool, I appreciate all the work that has clearly gone into it, and let you know if I find anything else.

Cheers

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

Oh, I see. This reference is not in a template, which is quite rare in the English Wikipedia :)

If it's in a template, then it's not auto-translated.

I filed this as a bug: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T210205

Reply to "The tool should not be translating references..."
McYata (talkcontribs)

I'm working on translation from English to Japanese. Since V1 I had a problem that the reuse reference style such as <ref name="name" /> disappears when I publish an article. Only the first defining refs survives. Actually English ref syntax and Japanese ref syntax are same so I'm fixing refs by copy & paste after the article is published, but this is too troublesome work. I saw the V2 solved some reference trouble so I tried it, then found that reuse refs just disappear before translating (when I touch the right field). Is there any way to reserve reuse refs?

Doc James (talkcontribs)
Doc James (talkcontribs)

Would recommend that you use firefox at this point.

McYata (talkcontribs)
Doc James (talkcontribs)
Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)
McYata (talkcontribs)
Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for confirming the problem is solved, @McYata.

Please, keep using the new version of the tool and reporting any issue you may find!

Reply to "Reference problem"

I can't translate wikipedia essays from English to Marathi

5
QueerEcofeminist (talkcontribs)

I tried to take Wikipedia:Wikipedia does not need you and similar essays for translation from en to mr but I couldn't input the same. So probably it's a problem of namespaces. And this tool is trained to take input from article namespace only. But I am sure this can be extended to wikipedia:XXX namespace too.

Hans Haase (talkcontribs)

Thanks. To solve it in time, have a temporary copy of the pages source text in your user namespace, translate it. When published, order to delete the temporary source and move the translation for Your destination languages project user namespace to its target namespace.

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the feedback @QueerEcofeminist,

Currently the search for articles is only limited to the main namespace, but it is possible to access other namespaces using the URL. For example, you can translate "Wikipedia:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man" by accessing the following link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ContentTranslation?page=Wikipedia:No_climbing_the_Reichstag_dressed_as_Spider-Man&from=en&to=fr&version=2 (you can change the "page" parameter to translate a different page)

Expanding the search to pick articles from other namespaces is in our plans (more details in this ticket). As part of that process we need to identify which namespaces have types of contents that the tool is not able to deal with.

QueerEcofeminist (talkcontribs)

@Pginer-WMF

Thanks a lot, This is something I wanted. It would be really helpful for me and my friends too. As there is much content on the guidelines, simple procedures, and much more is in the form of essays on enwiki and local and small wikis like mrwiki lacks it badly....

thanks and regards.

Reply to "I can't translate wikipedia essays from English to Marathi"

Абзацы со сносками не переводятся

3
Igel B TyMaHe (talkcontribs)

В новой версии абзацы со сносками не переводятся, вставляется только сноска без текста. При выборе "Исходный текст" текст появляется, возвращение "Использовать Yandex.Translate" снова оставляет только сноску.

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

На какой странице это произошло?

Amire80 (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Абзацы со сносками не переводятся"

Trouble Deleting an Old Translation and Starting Over

3
Doc James (talkcontribs)
Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the feedback, @Doc James.

If the problem happens with a translation that you have published before, this may be the issue described in this ticket. This issue is related to a limitation with our current data model which we plan to address once the work on version 2 is completed. So the fix may still be a few months ahead, but it is in our roadmap.

Meanwhile, making a copy of the source article to your user namespace or using a different user account could be some workarounds that, although inconvenient, may be of some help.

Doc James (talkcontribs)

Okay thanks. Just want to be able to delete and start over to make trouble shooting bugs easier. No worries, work around is fine.

Reply to "Trouble Deleting an Old Translation and Starting Over"
AnTeaX (talkcontribs)

The tool works very well when translating a whole article. In my experience, it also happens that an article exists in languages A & B and that only a few sections need translating. There are only two options available now : 1) not using the tool 2) creating an article with a new name B+, translating the necessary sections in B+, merging B & B+, deleting B+. It would be great to be able to use the tool to translate a section directly into an existing article

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the positive comments about the tool, @AnTeaX.

As you mentioned, the main focus of the tool is to start an initial version of a new article. Currently, as you described, there are some workarounds that can be made to expand existing articles but the workflow is not very fluent. We plan to improve this process in the future (check this ticket for more details).

Having said that, our main focus right now is to complete the work on version 2 for the translation editor. we want to replace the previous version of the editor before adding additional capabilities such as expanding existing articles. In this way we can bring the updated version to all translators and no longer need to maintain two different versions of the editor.

Reply to "Translating a section"
Wiki LIC (talkcontribs)

Buenas noches, Pau.

He probado el nuevo traductor en el artículo

Trabajo sobre Android en una tableta Samsung, con la correspondiente versión del navegador Chrome.

He notado notables mejoras en el editor, especialmente en las referencias a otros árticulos (ventanas azules) y en la traducción de las referencias intercaladas en el texto.

Sugerencias

  • Referencias a otros artículos: La aplicación traduce por defecto la etiqueta original del artículo inglés. Esto puede ser un inconveniente, especialmente si existe el correspondiente artículo en español. Por ejemplo, si en el artículo en inglés existe una referencia a Vincent van Goghg, en la ventana azul del traductor aparecería Vincent furgoneta Goghg. Sugerencia: sugiero que se pudiera elegir utilizar diectamente el nombre con el que se creó el artículo en español...
  • Referencias a libros o páginas de internet: aquí la aplicación traduce al español los títulos de libros y artículos. En mi opinión, debería dejarse la posibilidad de elegir si se taducen o no. Al traducir el artículo que cito al principio, no he visto la manera de conservar los títulos en inglés de las referencias (si miras el capítulo de las Referencias del artículo en cuestión, verás un horrible "Qué Es una Vista Frustum?", que debería figurar en inglés). Sugerencia: permitir elegir si cada referencia se deja en inglés o se traduce al español.
Nota:
  • Todavía no he probado el nuevo traductor con un artículo que contenga fórmulas matemáticas (con los códigos <math></math>). En la versión anterior de la aplicación, la traducción de estas fórmulas era un verdadero desastre.

Agradeciendo el interés que te tomas en mejorar esta herramienta:
Saludos:@Wiki LIC

Pd: por cierto, acabo de ver que la aplicación no había enlazado el nuevo artículo traducido a la base de de datos de wikidata. Lo he hecho yo mismo manualmente.

Más sugerencias:

  • Añadir contenidos traducidos a artículos existentes: por ejemplo, la entrada de es:Pierre de Fermat en español, tiene una biografía muy corta, que me gustaría ampliar traduciéndola del inglés. Sugerencia: sería muy útil que también se pudieran añadir traducciones parciales a un artículo existente. Se me ocurre que estos nuevos párrafos traducidos se localizaran al final del artículo existente (para que el editor pudiera luego recolocar el texto a su gusto) o incluso utilizar el taller del editor para almacenar temporalmente estos textos. Eso sí, en estos casos la herramienta debería chequear la consistencia de las referencias del tipo <ref name=Miref />, para no dejar ninguna descolgada.
  • Listas negras: no es infrecuente encontrarse que no es posible grabar una traducción porque una llamada a un elemento de una lista negra lo impide. Esto también pasa con algunas plantillas obsoletas. Sugerencia: en el mensaje que avisa de la presencia de un elemento de una lista negra, debería darse el nombre o la localización del elemento que causa el problema. Buscar estos elementos por prueba y error es un auténtico trabajo detectivesco, que en ocasiones hace perder mucho tiempo.
  • Plantilla Traducido de: ya puestos (esto me preocupa menos), sería de agradecer que la aplicación añadiera a la página de discusión de la entrada creada en español, la plantilla {{:es:ep|Traducido de}}, convenientemente rellenada.

Saludos de nuevo:@Wiki LIC

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Hola @Wiki LIC,

Muchas gracias por tus sugerencias y todos los detalles aportados. Algunos comentarios a continuación:

En primer lugar, me ha sorprendido leer que utilizas una tableta. Pese a que la herramienta no está principalmente enfocada al uso de tabletas, recientemente hicimos algunas mejoras para dispositivos táctiles y pantallas reducidas. Nos interesa conocer más sobre el uso de la herramienta en estos dispositivos y los problemas específicos que en ellos encontráis. Así que cualquier detalle será bienvenido.

Respecto a las referencias a otros artículos, uno de los problemas subyacentes es que las traducciones erróneas producidas por los servicios de traducción deben ser corregidas repetidamente para cada instancia (cambiando "furgoneta" por "van" en tu ejemplo cada vez). Una idea para ayudar con este problema está descrita en este ticket. El caso de las referencias a artículos, sería un caso particular del anterior (y más sencillo de implementar) en el que se podría ofrecer el texto alternativo para utilizarlo. He creado un ticket para este caso específico. Puedes añadir cualquier comentario sobre la idea y seguir el progreso del ticket.

En cuanto a las referencias a libros o páginas de internet, miraré con más detalle algunos ejemplos para explorar posibles soluciones en la línea del caso anterior o on una aproximación diferente. En cualquier caso, la sugerencia tiene mucho sentido.

Sobre enlazar automáticamente en Wikidata los artículos publicados, se trata de una regresión de la nueva versión que tenemos previsto solucionar (más detalles en este ticket).

Respecto al resto de sugerencias, son también aspectos que tenemos previstos para el futuro de la herramienta, aunque puede que tarden algo más en completarse ya que nuestra prioridad es poder reemplazar la versión antigua del editor con la nueva lo antes posible. En cualquier caso, enlazo a los tickets relacionados para que tengas más información sobre nuestras ideas iniciales para expandir páginas existentes, comunicar mejor los errores mostrando los elementos afectados (incluidos las listas negras), y proporcionar más opciones de publicación para el artículo (incluyendo opción para que las distintas comunidades puedan añadir la plantilla que comentas o equivalente marcando una casilla)

Un saludo y muchas gracias por usar la herramienta de traducción.

Ignacio2403 (talkcontribs)

No se que tan difícil sería esto para los desarrolladores o no se si lo pueden hacer pero esto ya se planteó en phabricator y en la discusión de la primera versión, se trata de agregar google traslate como opción porque honestamente la traducción con Apertium y Yandex es pésima, he probado la nueva versión y sigue este problema, otra cosa que noté es que allí no me funciona ell gadget de Google Traslate que programó Endo999 y que lo uso en todas las traducciones, esto es una sugerencia para mejorar Content Traslation

Reply to "Sugerencias"