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Previous discussion is archived at Talk:Winter/Archive 1.

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C933103 (talkcontribs)

See , on mobile chrome browser, the first image show bottombar blocked some language selection on the right when content is too short and there are too many languages, and secondly at the same time while in the winter page the jump to Ænglisc page and arabic page is successful, it can't jump to like chinese or canton

George Orwell III (talkcontribs)

fwiw... there is a fair number of invalid entries in the current winter.css file and your observation is most likely being caused by one or more of these invalid entries -- primarily

  • ''overflow:" is set to invalid entry ''show'' rather than the proper value ''visible''; possibly followed by
  • several instances where the absolute positioning attributes such as ''top:" and/or ''left:'' are set to unit-less values such as ''10'', ''155'' & ''40'' instead of ''10px'', ''155px'' & ''40px''
  • . . . among several other "mistakes".

In fact, all the winter/snowflake related .css files need to be [re]checked against's .css validator at:

Reply to "Some problems"
Kghbln (talkcontribs)

Is this still an active project?

Ckoerner (talkcontribs)

I have no insider information so this is all speculation, but my understanding that with Jorm's departure Winter is in stasis as a separate 'thing'. He was one of the large proponents behind it. As Tar mentions, it's really the bringing together of multiple projects to bring a more cohesive design to the interface of MediaWiki/WMF-projects.

I'd love to be corrected on this if wrong, but I think reaching out to the design team and looking at the MediaWiki UI and UI Standardization Board in Phabricator might shed more light on where things are going.

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

Afaik, strictly speaking, this was never a project. It's rather a vision of several projects, developed separately and with different priority. We can see some of them already (Typography Refresh, MediaWiki UI, if I'm correct) and have to wait for the next (e.g. Right Rail).

Kghbln (talkcontribs)

Thanks for your reply. I believe most people think that this was about creating the next generation skin for MediaWiki. Personally I have never seen it as a "mutilated" Vector thing. So Winter did not end up in permafrost...

RandomDSdevel (talkcontribs)

Ha! I see what you did there, and I like your sense of humor.

Reply to "Still active?"
1989 (talkcontribs)

On the upcoming skin (I think), is there a way that we can have a profile pic instead of a icon; and on the hide sidebar feature, is there a way that we can tap on the logo, and would show the hover menu without going to the main page on mobile when we want to use the full site?

Reply to "Suggestions"
Sillyfolkboy (talkcontribs)

I have lots of issues with the current Wikipedia layout and the Winter prototype appears to fix/improve on nearly all of them! This is great work. Even though most of the time I spend on the site is in edit mode, I instantly appreciate the changes to the read mode.

Out of every single project I've seen, I think *this* should be the priority for the WikiMedia Foundation. It profoundly affects the way the site is seen and used - for the better. I think the dated look and basic functionality of the software is underestimated as a factor in known declining participation.

Only one suggestion - when entering the edit mode, the right rail area remains empty. It would be much more preferable to use this space to either (a) extend the edit text view to a width similar to the current one (in edit mode, the sole focus is the editing area and presentational spacing for improved prose comprehension is not a factor) , or (b) move the most useful editing links/tools/toolbars into this area.

Sillyfolkboy (talkcontribs)

Actually, two more points: categories, portals and navigation boxes should have sections in the right rail. I actually drafted a right aligned box in Wikipedia for this very same purpose two and half years ago and would very much like to see the delivery of that concept by people more technically able than I. Transformation of our "See also" sections into a right rail gadget would also be very useful. All together, these would be nothing short of a navigation revolution for Wikipedia (especially for oft-missed categories and portals).

Reply to "Great stuff - this should be priority"
Felistoria (talkcontribs)

The design of text&pic seems to me (German user) very oldfashioned, because it reminds in a way the first printed books in 15th century, trying to copy the handwitten medieval manuscripts. What I mean: Did you want persons to read articles as they are used to or do you want to present a new medium?

This comment was hidden by JKDw (history)
Reply to "Maybe an old and done..."
JKDw (talkcontribs)

Roughly when is Winter expected to be released as a beta feature and as the default skin?

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I don't know. I don't think there are any current plans for anyone to do that work, sorry.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

IIUC, Winter is not ever intended to be released as a Complete Skin, or a Beta Feature. See Winter#The Winter Framework - it's a test-bed for people (anyone) to experiment at.

JKDw (talkcontribs)

What does any of this experimentation achieve, if there is no intended future for Winter? Is it to build a resource for whichever actual skin will be made in the future? My life is a lie.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The elements ("snowflakes" in Winter's terminology) can potentially be deployed as either new elements of the existing skin(s), or as standalone BetaFeatures that could also eventually/potentially be merged into a skin. E.g. at we can try out the "Fixed header" BetaFeature.

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

Right, so what about Right Rail as a BetaFeature? It'd be highly useful for designing wp, help, portal etc. pages, not to mention obvious advantages concerning the main ns.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure how much work would need to be done (as the note on the project page says, "This is fairly large in scope."). There are currently no developers or product managers with the many needed hours to spare. All I can see offhand (but I am not a developer) is

However, Pau is working on some interesting designs for modular rightrail components in Flow (nothing online, yet), for metadata and checklists and similar, so that might be where the work re-begins.

He7d3r (talkcontribs)


Reply to "Release"
Zebulon84 (talkcontribs)

Reducing the width of the text might be a good idea to improve readability. But some pages contains large tables, for data or just presentation, especially sport projects but not only.

When there is nothing any more on the right side (so below the infobox), these tables should be able to expand to this part, because it feels really strange to have a big tables condensed to a small size in the middle of the page when there is blank area on left and right. I'm thinking about pages like this one or that one.

RandomDSdevel (talkcontribs)

Some of the first items in the right-hand sidebar of the second article to which you linked seem to be cut off, too, and zooming the page seems to exacerbate this problem.

Reply to "Large tables"
Ragesoss (talkcontribs)

I tried the "Fixed header" on Beta Labs (with VE also enabled), and ran into trouble with the big blue Edit button. The little dot on the right has a hover menu to choose between Edit source and VE, but it's very tricky to get the mouse from the blue edit button to the menu links. It usually disappears when I start to move the mouse toward the menu.

Also, on my browsers at least (Iceweasel and Chromium on Debian Testing), the button isn't rendering as intended; there's overlap between the text and the three-dot-menu icon. See

Se4598 (talkcontribs)

see also: T85247 VisualEditor incompatible with "Fixed header" beta feature

Reply to "Fixed header on Beta Labs"
PJosepherum (talkcontribs)

Hey, I'm very impressed with the prototype! There's no mention on this project page, but I'm wondering if it is yet possible to port any of the source code to MW 1.23? Cloning into the skins directory revealed no means of inclusion, thus I can't test or develop locally.

Jorm (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Quim is correct; the prototype is MediaWiki-less. Pure HTML/CSS and JavaScript.

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

As far as I know, this is a MediaWiki-less prototype, floating on raw HTML/CSS/JS.

Reply to "Prototype"

On the Location of Articles' Tables of Contents

RandomDSdevel (talkcontribs)

I like being able to access articles' tables of contents from Winter's main toolbar, but shouldn't this functionality only appear once users have scrolled past articles' actual tables of contents?

Reply to "On the Location of Articles' Tables of Contents"