Talk:Notifications

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More than 2,000 Notifications, will start to be removed

28
Summary by Trizek (WMF)

July 2019: T227853 is open in order to see which notifications shoudn't be deleted.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/159413/ - This update adds a script to delete any Notifications that are older than the most recent 2,000.

Up until now, they were stored indefinitely, meaning that some users have many thousands of read Notifications adding up in the database. 2,000 was chosen, because it is the number of Notifications that the "mark all as read" button effects.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Ricordisamoa (talkcontribs)

What if I want to preserve important notifications and delete the newest instead?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

For indefinite preservation, I think the best option would probably be to enable the "email" preference for whichever notification types you want to keep records for.

Is there a particular type(s) of notifications that you're thinking of? Giving a few examples almost always helps. :)

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

I would have thought the number of users with > 2000 edits would be small. If you ware worried about database size, maybe deleted some of those millions of "users" who have never edited or been welcomed.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This change was just regarding number of echo notifications, not edits.

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

Yes, that's not what I meant.

Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

How can one determine how many notifications one has?


Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Ottawahitech, what do you mean? You want to know how many notifications someone has?

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Ah, English language. :) Thank you Rich.

Ottawahitech, why do you need to know how many notification someone has? It is some private information.

Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

I want to know how many notifications I have at enwiki where I am indefinitely blocked since 2017 (I think), after almost ten years of contributions. I have not been able to participate (even my talk-page access has been removed), so there is no way for me to do things like thank people, etc.

I am still hoping that my indef block will be lifted someday, and I would like to keep my notifications at least until such time.

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

He wants to know how many notifications he has.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

Not on en:Wikipedia, as far as I can see.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I see 52 for me: click on the arrows close to "1-50" to see the total.

This is not optimal, but we never had any feedback about displaying the total.


Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

Looks like some of my notifications have already been deleted then? Can they be recovered?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No. They are removed from the database.

Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

I have no idea where to look for "arrows" and where "1-50" is supposed to be. I suspect this may look different to someone using a different platform. For example, is this viewable to someone using a [[w:mobile]], or someone using a [[w:linux]] system?

BTW, I pretty much gave up on anyone responding to my questions here on mediawiki. [[User:Quidity]] was always pretty prompt, but I think he is no longer involved?

Another BTW, since FLOW is being tested here: where can I provide feedback to the FLOW developers?

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

AH.. so after 39 clicks I see that I have 1996 notifications... I would really rather they not be deleted, it seems contrary to the spirit of the WIki to loose history like this. By this principle we would delete page history over 2000, or maybe decide we could manage with the 2000 most important articles! :)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Is it possible to compare Notifications to Article history? I don't think it is.

Article history are a fundamental feature for the wikis: without them we wouldn't have the reliability we have.

Notifications are just tokens you immediately take action from. Did you had once to find something on the 1996 notifications you've received since 2013, apart from the 20 most recent ones? It is a real question, not some cynical rhetoric wording. :)

Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

Yes, in particular the number of thanks for fixing up reference names is an important metric. Keeping thanks is also important for understanding social issues. Having a list of mentions is useful if you can't find a discussion you were pinged in.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Rich Farmbrough (talkcontribs)

I would have thought the number of users with > 2000 edits would be small. The number with > 2,000 echoes smaller still.

Rich Farmbrough 02:15, 7 May 2016 (UTC).

RTG (talkcontribs)

Please... I do not see the word kilobyte here, so you really are just poking at this with a stick... And if you don't see why that is relevant, you should ''especially'' stop talking about what should be done about it! Apologies,

RTG (talkcontribs)

I should just add my opinion. Never delete any notification ever without a genuine good reason. I have hundreds of notifications from the last year. I don't want someone to come along and delete them while I am off doing something even if they think I've seen them before, They're mine. Is that not fair?

Ottawahitech (talkcontribs)

Very very fair imio

Reply to "More than 2,000 Notifications, will start to be removed"

People keep complaining that the notifications are broken don't they...

19
RTG (talkcontribs)

When you get a notification or alert, you click the button. If you are not on the wiki it came from, it doesn't appear. It in fact disappears from the button list. Then you get freaked out... where did this notification go? What was it about?


If the button is going to change colour on a wiki, it doesn't matter which wiki asked it to change colour, the notification must appear in the place where I pressed the button.


Once the list is fixed to actually display the notifications... there is never a reason to remove anything from the list unless the user specifically goes to "All notifications" and removes the item from the list. If a door handle disappears when you use it, then you close that door, you are now locked in. This is no added bonus in the design of a door.


Thanks o/

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

What I have is when you get a notification or alert, you click the button. If you are not on the wiki it came from, it appears as a cross-wiki notification.

Don't you get this? By any chance, haven't you deactivated it?

RTG (talkcontribs)

I don't even know where the settings are, preferences I suppose, when I got his notification I was having a look at the main page on Wikipedia. It showed on the blue button on the left and it showed me the last Wikipedia note I got. The trick is to click into "See all notifications" and then to click "All" or "Read" and check each wiki to see which one was most recent. I've definitely lost a few notifications before I figured this out. I did see a lot of complaints somewhere, the help section of en.wiki I think. Seems to be relatively easy to fix however now that I can see where they went !

RTG (talkcontribs)

On the right doh! The button on the right. The other left.

RTG (talkcontribs)

No my cross wiki is enabled...

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Oh, you mean not getting - or not retrieving - notifications from Special:Notifications? Because all notifications displayed there are also listed on the panel when you click on the bell or the tray.

RTG (talkcontribs)

I get to Special:Notifications from the bottom of the list of the bell or tray when I click them and no new notification appears. Although I have cross-wiki notifications enabled, you may be on to something because I've purposely allowed the lists on each button to grow long. They do not show notifications from other wikis, either here or on en.wiki. On this wiki the list is solely from this wiki, however cross-wiki is checked in preferences. On Special:Notifications each wiki has its own list no mater which wiki it is on.


I'll try to summarise. Cross-wiki is enabled on all wikis. My buttons light up for a notification, but when I press them, I have to navigate to Special:Notifications where the new notification will be marked as read. I have to search through the notifications marked as read to find what wiki lit the buttons. When I press a lit button, it will mark all notifications as read, but it will not show notifications from other wikis. All cross-wiki is doing for me is marking notifications as read without showing them to me.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I came this conversation following a cross-wiki notification from another wiki. At least cross-wiki notifications work for one user. :)

Did you had cross-wiki notifications in the past? Is missing these notifications a new issue you're facing? If so, since when? Have you enabled a global preference/gadget/script recently?

On Special:Notifications, when a cross-wiki notification is read, it disappears from the list. On the panels it doesn't disappear unless if you click on the blue dot.

Next time you have a missing notification, can you take screenshots of every steps you went through? You can share them they way you prefer, even by email.

RTG (talkcontribs)

Trizek, over a year at least, and it is very simple. I press the button. The note I see is the last one from the wiki I am on when I press the button. The solution is simple. Never delete a notification ever unless I press a delete. There is no need to delete a notification ever., from the list where the button is, from the list at Special:Notificions, none of it. If you think there is a reason that peoples notifications should be deleted before they ask for them to be deleted. ever, you are way off what is required. Give me a reason to delete someone elses notification if they have not pressed a button which says delete? What if I press a notification and I have to rush out the door or my computer crashes, you've really made the notifications as difficult as you possibly can without purposely trying to make them difficult, with this one minor, needless issue. It is a frustrating thing. It is not really anything but a frustrating thing. The length of the list does not make it less usable, but deleting items from the list makes it no use at all. Please decide to fix it today.


The only gadget I have enabled allows me to transfer images from Wikipedia to Commons. I definitely had this problem before I enabled the gadget. You have said it yourself. When an item is clicked in the list it disappears. Are you afraid that I might want to see it again? Am I supposed to have a photographic memory? Please, stop deleting what are essentially my messages. Don't ask me why or think about it. They are messages for me. Allow me to decide when I am finished with them. Nothing else can make sense. I don't want emailed every time I create a redirect. I check Wikipedia 10x more often than my email even if I have not edited.Can you not see how deleting my messages is outside your remit? Yes you can. Yes it is. Leave them there where I can see them. That is what those messages are for. They are not there to be clicked. Clicking them is a feature. They are there to be seen. Come on, fess up, you don't know why they are deleted. You just assume it is a standard form of housekeeping. If your emails auto deleted, and they said they didn't know why you thought that was an issue, you'd go nuts and drop the email site immediately. You do agree with this. Don't allow me to seem as though I do not appreciate your hard work, but you've got to stop deleting notifications now, yes?

RTG (talkcontribs)
RTG (talkcontribs)

In the above screens, I opened both Wikipedia and Commons at the same time. They both would show the blue button before I pressed it. I have this page open in them, but the notification was for this thread. As you can see only notifications for that site are showing. Cross wiki is enabled of its own volition. And you can see how I've had to open Special:Notifications to find my way here. I'm a committed tab user.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Screenshots are empty, sorry.

A notification is never marked as read until the user mark it as read or visit the page where the notification comes from (their talk page, a talk page where they are pinged...).

  1. get a cross-wiki notification
  2. click on the alert - I have the "you have a cross wiki notification" notification. Nothing happens if I leave the panel.
  3. click on the bundled notification - I have the detail of where the notification is. Nothing happens if I leave the panel or don't click on the notification.
  4. click on the notification - I'm redirected to the place where the notification is. The notification disappears from the wiki where is doesn't originate from. Is this last step the issue you mention?

I understand your frustration and I'm doing my best to help you. Please don't forget this. I just try to understand your case and document it, so that the team can re-discuss about the issue.

RTG (talkcontribs)

I blanked the screenshots when I thought you might have seen them. I'll blank my bookmarks bar and leave them uploaded this time.


I have never before seen "You have a cross-wiki notification", or even heard of the cross-wiki setting before you mentioned it. I assumed notifications were automatically cross-wiki. I'm so sure that at some time I have had a cross wiki notification, but all I can truly remember is that I sometimes got notifications, but when I clicked the icon, no new notification appeared. I always assumed I had been pinged to a discussion and missed it.


What may be relevant is that I have been through the list of Chrome functions at one time and disabled many of them, but I imagine the notifications are server side only. I used to use the green on black version of Wikipedia, and I use a personalised signature. That's all the preferences I remember using. I just do not play with the preferences and settings.


You have given me 4 options but none of these seem to be correct. I get the lit button, I press it, it shows only on-wiki notifications. After I press it, the button is no longer lit no matter what I do or what I see.


https://snipboard.io/grjpGR.jpg


https://snipboard.io/ZbeiVa.jpg


https://snipboard.io/OiTna1.jpg


No, I don't expect anything from you, Trizek. In fact, I had taken it for granted that you were a volunteer until now, but I should be aware that you are an employee. I may have been a little bit condescending in the other thread, about deleting notifications. I know we should expect more careful interaction with volunteers and more demanding interaction with employees. It is difficult to explain that. You're fine. I'm sure the screenshots will show the full content of my problem. I press the button, I get on-wiki only, though the button lights for the notification, and goes back to unlit after I clicked the list. In these screenshots we can see "Notices from other wikis"... but on en.wiki my notification list is long. I have not seen this before and to find it on en.wiki I have to scroll a long way down.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Then you press the button (I assume that's the bell icon or the tray icon), you have your list of unread notifications.

The simple notifications you mostly have are notifications for the wiki you are currently on. If you click on one of them, you directly go to the page where the action is happening.

The "More notices from 4 other wikis" on the second screenshot is indeed a cross wiki notification (actually 4 of them, bundled). These notifications are listed by date and hour. The 4 cross-wiki notifications you have may be older than the others.

You can discard a notification (mark it as read) by clicking on the blue dot at the top-right. You can mark it as unread by clicking on the grey circle, at the same place. How often do you do this?

Careful interaction with everyone should be the standard. After all, we are all humans beings. :) The only difference is you can be more demanding on the quality of my relation with you. Speaking of which, I'm not around until Monday. See you then!

RTG (talkcontribs)

When I took these screenshots was the first time I had noticed this item which appears white as though it was something I had already read before. It is also so much more visible on the Commons wiki because there is much less interaction and very much less notifications. On the en.wiki it is not visible when I open the notifications from there.


I never discard a notification. Why would I do that? I cannot understand where you are getting the idea that notifications are deleted as standard. Why don't you put the most recent notification at the top, and never delete any notifications, which is what I believe is the standard way of doing it on other systems, and it will be completely obvious and intuitive...

RTG (talkcontribs)

You are probably wondering how I have notifications which I have not previously clicked, but most of my notifications involve current discussions. I can usually access discussions from my contributions, so I have purposely opened my contributions when I have notifications, read which pages have pinged me, and access them from the contribs, so that the messages will not be deleted from the list and I can open it to easily remind myself they are there.

RTG (talkcontribs)

Today I got a notification for this wiki but I saw it very early in the morning and went back to sleep for a while, not remembering what it was about or exactly which page it was on. I had to go to the Special:Notifications list to find which wiki it came from. Once I had clicked the item in the list... it is no longer available. I had not participated in the discussion, so the page is not available in my contributions. Once I clicked it from the Special:Notifications list, it is gone. Fix that genre of notification deletion and you'll go a long way toward fixing my whole problem here.


It is like walking up a flight of steps, but each step crumbles behind you. The situation where it is complained as a problem is obviously rare, however, the situation where this deletion is a useful feature has yet to be defined. It is totally natural and understandable to add this feature, however, please refine it, thanks o/

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

So you suggestions would be to mark a notification as unread, or as "keep for later"? Or another idea?

Do you think that improving Special:Notifications to have a way to fetch a previous notification (by wiki, by date...) would help?

RTG (talkcontribs)

I think you would "keep for later" by default, then add a way to delete from Special:Notifications, not auto-deleting anything unless specifically as an extra option.


Allow me to group them by date, but more significantly, make cross-wiki notifications rise to the top of the bell and tray lists when there is a new one.


Yes ordering Special:Notifications by date would help a search of most recent notifications.

Reply to "People keep complaining that the notifications are broken don't they..."

Being notified of new links to a page that I did not create

3
Summary by Evolution and evolvability

Request already exists at phab:T66090

Evolution and evolvability (talkcontribs)

Hello. In the Notification/Alert tabs preferences, I can opt to be notified for page links to articles that I created.

Is there a way to add pages that I did not create to that list?

There are several pages that I'd love to monitor when a new article links to (e.g. whenever a new page links to Catalytic triad). I assume there must be the equivalent of a list somewhere behind the scenes. Any ideas?

Cross-post from Topic:Uu1p02wu6yz81608

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hey. Sadly not. That's one of the many items in the list at Notifications#Suggested new notification types - specifically phab:T66090 ("Allow "article-linked" notifications for pages in a user defined list"). We have too many good ideas, and not enough programmers!

I'm not sure how the existing feature works technically. That might be a good questions to ask in the phab task, because the answer might give a volunteer/newcomer dev the hint & inspiration they need to tackle it? (I want that feature, too! And a thousand others...). Cheers.

Evolution and evolvability (talkcontribs)

Thanks! It's good to know that it's in phab at least so that it's on file as a possibly useful feature some day.

Configuring default welcome message

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96.255.45.49 (talkcontribs)

Is it possible to configure the default welcome message Echo gives you? Currently it always says "Welcome to {{{SITENAME}}}, ‪{{{NAME}}}! We're glad you're here." I'd like to be able to change it to include a link to the rules and the f.a.q. The ideal way to do this would probably be to use something like Extension:HAWelcome or Extension:NewUserMessage but since I'm using Structured Discussions/Flow neither of those work.

I've been trying to find the PHP file that generates the message to edit it directly, but no luck yet

Xaosflux (talkcontribs)

You should be able to localize that in MediaWiki:Notification-header-welcome

96.255.45.49 (talkcontribs)

I'll test that out! Thanks for the reply.

96.255.45.49 (talkcontribs)

It worked, thank you!! Maybe this should be mentioned on Extension:Echo because it seems like it's something people would want to configure and I'm not seeing it there.

User rights in local languages

3
Pxos (talkcontribs)

The user rights are in English, at least on Finnish Wikipedia. They should be in the local language in messages like "X has changed your user rights. You are now member of the group: rollbacker."

Reply to "User rights in local languages"

Enabling Notification For All Changes

6
Jabowery (talkcontribs)

I've googled "all changes" "any changes", "all modifications", etc. in the context of Mediawiki notifications and come up with nothing -- not even perennial requests -- for my use case:

There is an old wiki that is not undergoing much of any activity that I'm trying to revive in the manner of a wiki project or wiki task force and one of the best ways to keeping the team active would be for everyone on the team to be notified of everything that is happening to the wiki.

This seems like an obvious feature but I can't find how to enable notification for all changes to the wiki.

Wikinaut (talkcontribs)

As an ad-hoc solution: you can(have to) add all pages to your watchlist.

Wikinaut (talkcontribs)

It would be possible, yes, but currently there is no option for enabling such a feature.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Yes, watchlist is your best option. You can force email notifications for watchlist moves and add every page to the watchlist, be be cautious of a spam effect!

Another solution is to use Extension:Newsletter send regular updates to the participants. That's a way to surface edits, but also a very good opportunity to built a community by having highlights on cool projects, or sharing best practices.

Tim Smith (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I don't know about that extension. I see it is tagged as unmaintained, so using it may not be the best idea.

Reply to "Enabling Notification For All Changes"
Janezdrilc (talkcontribs)

Two icons of bell and "something" seem a little bit confusing to me. I never know what is behind one or another when "ringing". In my eyes it actually doesn't matter what kind of message is about to come. So, I would rather keep just a bell. Could be red colored when it's about user page message or someone mentioning me, and blue colored when it's about a thank or my mentioning of somebody.

One another thing: In the Special:Notifications there could be an option for selecting types of messages to show: user talk notices, mentions of me, mentions by me, thanks ...

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The first notification badge (red, "alerts", the bell) contains most important notification types: new messages on your talk page, mentions, etc. The second notification badge (blue, "notices", the tray) contains less important notifications: pages likes, message on other talk pages, etc. All kind of notifications are documented here.

I've created a feature ticket for your idea of having filters on Special:Notifications.

Janezdrilc (talkcontribs)

Thanks for answer and a ticket.

Reply to "Bell icon"

This edit hasn't triggered a notification

4
Micru (talkcontribs)
Ymblanter (talkcontribs)

It is ok. You only get notified if the user signs at the same time they ping you.

Truthseeker40 (talkcontribs)

Perhaps this is the best place to ask a question about notifications. I have set up notifications for 4 models, and use the same email address for notifications. So far, this has not worked at all. I have checked my email junk and spam folders, and there is nothing found. Any suggestions would help!

Micru (talkcontribs)

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification :)

Reply to "This edit hasn't triggered a notification"

make it possible to notify a group

2
Summary last edited by Clump 20:05, 3 May 2018 1 year ago
Gryllida (talkcontribs)

At some wikis editors may wish to form a group, such as a wikiproject. Membership is maintained in two ways: by listing members on a wiki page by hand, and by adding a 'I am a member of wikiproject Foo' userbox on a user page which adds the user to the appropriate category.

Is it possible to make it so that pinging at wikiproject page via Echo results into a notification being delivered to all its members? Each user would be able view their wikiproject membership in the Notifications tab in their preferences and untick WikiProjects whose notifications they do not wish to receive?

(I can see this being abused, but abusers would need to be treated in the same manner as if they were pasting a long number of usernames into wiki page, so I don't think this tool would actively open an abuse vector.)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

There is no group mention system in Notifications. That's an idea to consider and I've documented it on Phabricator.

It is a real need. I've seen a wikiproject notification system on French Wikipedia, where you can mention a project. You add a template and that template is listed in a category. You need to watch that category's activity, which is... another problem. :) That's more a substitute than a real notification system.

I think your idea would be a good candidate for the next Community Whishlist survey.

Reply to "make it possible to notify a group"

Feature request: API to add a notification?

3
Pcj (talkcontribs)

Is there anyway an action can be added to the API to allow notifications to be generated by e.g., gadgets? Or is this possible another way already?

This post was hidden by Pcj (history)
PerfektesChaos (talkcontribs)

I am afraid not.

I recall discussions on this issue, and the result has been to disallow procedural issueing of notifications to avoid mass misuse and bothering users and projects. Even more, there is no arbitrary message text permitted (which could be a hidden drug or weapon deal) communicated between two users, or offensive things which cannot be proved by the victim.

Therefore only standard situations like mentioning or thanking for an edit can trigger a notification, and the generated text is defined by the circumstances.

Reply to "Feature request: API to add a notification?"