User talk:Trizek (WMF)

Jump to navigation Jump to search

About this board

This page uses StructuredDiscussions. For general Feedback about StructuredDiscussions, please post it on the dedicated page!

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Trizek (WMF)/Archive 1 on 2015-09-30.

Right place to provide a piece of community feedback

4
Kaartic (talkcontribs)

Hi Trizek,

I suppose you remember the discussion related to the New filters for edit review that was happening in Wikinews. I continued to discuss a little to find what was wrong with deploying the change and got a sensible response from a user. I think the reason as to why they push back changes is well described in that reply.

It seems to be a valid reasoning to me. So, I thought of getting more information to find what would make things smoother for them. The user stated that "design changes should be in the hands of the local communities" as a thesis which might help solve the issue. I'm not sure as to whether it's a good suggestion or not but I thought it would nice to point that to the relevant people so that they could take it into consideration.

That said, I'm not sure who to point that piece of feedback to. It would be nice if you could help me with it. Thanks.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Kaartic

What is precisely the point you refer to? If that's the burden caused by new tools, I haven't seen any good will to try those tools. The lack of volunteers is not a point as well: ORES can help to review edits more easily; we've offered that option. I question myself since the beginning: the discussion is about the filters in theory, but what is the real point behind that discussion? The filters are not imposed to individuals (option to opt-out individually). In your opinion, am I missing something?

Concerning the design of tools let to communities, every design process is open and we do our best to be transparent. I've also seen too many times people refusing facts and figures about why a new tool is useful, or assistance in assimilating those, new tools because those tools and features are not aligned to their personal plans. That mentality really depends on the community and, fortunately, I see more people happy of the changes than the opposite. :)

Kaartic (talkcontribs)

Hi,

Sorry for the delayed response. Got busy a little these days.

> What is precisely the point you refer to?

I was just conveying a comment of one of the Wikinews community members in which he possibly theorises that "When the design of the tools are given in the hands, the deployment would be more gradual and accepting". It does seem to touch upon the burden of the new tools, I suppose.

> The lack of volunteers is not a point as well: ORES can help to review edits more easily; we've offered that option.

I'm not sure whether that holds for Wikinews. I guess it's mostly about facts and getting them into news and publishing them at the right time. I'm not sure how much ORES could help in that means. If there are way it could, let me know.

> Concerning the design of tools let to communities, every design process is open and we do our best to be transparent.

I do accept this. I've personally felt that and even given some tips myself. May be we should ask for a clarification to the user about why he doesn't feel the design process to be transparent? What do you think?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hey Kaartic! No apologies needed for your late reply: you're a volunteer already giving a lot of time (than you for that!) and we are all busy. :)

I was just conveying a comment of one of the Wikinews community members in which he possibly theorises that "When the design of the tools are given in the hands, the deployment would be more gradual and accepting". It does seem to touch upon the burden of the new tools, I suppose.

What can we do more than having a long Beta test phase, of people don't take the opportunity to really try the features at that time and provide feedback? Beta features are not Beta forever and at some point they will be deployed by default. The burden can be reduced if people are curious of new tools and aimed to help improving them to fit their needs (in a reasonable way, of course; we can't create custom tools while we try to serve all cases on all wikis).

Concerning ORES, that tool may help people to surface possible vandalism instead of trying to find it edit by edit. They can then have more time to validate new articles. However, it takes time to "feed" ORES.

May be we should ask for a clarification to the user about why he doesn't feel the design process to be transparent? What do you think?

You can if you want, and I'll be curious of the results. But I won't spend time on that while that question has already been commented on English Wikinews, with something I can summarize as "you should do what we want and then prove that's useful to our wiki", which is, in my opinion, a process we can't afford.

Reply to "Right place to provide a piece of community feedback"
Hamilton Abreu (talkcontribs)

Hi Trizek, this edit to Help:Notifications/Notifications types added "Mention templates don't work." Do we really want to state in a help page that something not previously defined (either on that page or on the entire site) doesn't work, and not tell why?

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Hamilton Abreu (talkcontribs)

So it is saying that {{ping}} and {{reply to}} don't work if used in edit summaries. Correct?

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

That's how that worked last time I checked, correct. I pinged you while editing Project:Sandbox and you shouldn't have received anything.

Hamilton Abreu (talkcontribs)

Confirmed. Many thanks.

Reply to "Mention templates"
Erramix (talkcontribs)

hello

Hamilton Abreu (talkcontribs)

Hi Trizek, I believe that you inserted in Help:Notifications/Notifications types the sentence "Available by default on Wikimedia wikis, it is possible to opt-out into Preferences.". What, precisely and in detail, does "opt-out into Preferences" mean?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello

While in your preferences (go to Special:Preferences or click on "preferences" on top of any page), go to the "Notifications" tab. There you can choose which notifications you want or don't want to have.

I've rephrased a bit and added a link. Thank you for spotting this unclear point!

Reply to "opt-out into Preferences"

"Flow" => "Structured Discussions" renaming is confusing

3
Yaron Koren (talkcontribs)

I see that you've been changing "Flow" to "Structured Discussions" on a lot of pages, in both page contents and page names. No offense intended, but that seems like a bad idea, and I think you should undo most or all of those changes. The change makes it seem like the "Flow" extension has been renamed or replaced, but it has not yet - and if it does get renamed or replaced, I'm guessing that the new name will not be "Structured Discussions". (At least, I hope not, because that name is hard to keep saying.) It may be that the internal WMF project to provide, er, structured discussions is no longer being referred to as "Flow", but the software is still called "Flow". It looks like you did a blanket search-and-replace, which leads to factually incorrect statements like "Structured Discussions has been deployed on user talk and wiki-wide discussion pages". Please consider just undoing your changes, if you don't have time to be more careful in the text.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Yaron

I've spent time to review every text I was changing. If you have seen some pieces of text that seem to need improivements, please tell me.

The announcement concerning the updates from Flow to Structured Discussions will happen soon. The documentation has been updated to reflect those changes. Repos and Extension will be renamed soon, as a second step. Meanwhile, Flow will remain a secondary name for Structured Discussions, like Echo has been the former name of Notifications.

Yaron Koren (talkcontribs)

I'm... not sure what to say here. Flow hasn't been renamed, and neither has Echo. But if you don't care about confusing users, there's not much I can say.

Someone asking for help to get Flow installed on a wiki

4
MarcoAurelio (talkcontribs)

Bonjour. I'm not sure if "pings" work well but if you could see Topic:Tvgv9hts2n6apa2h I'd appreciate it. Regards.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

¡Holà! Yes, pings work. I've just forgotten to leave a message saying I have seen the request and forwarded it.

MarcoAurelio (talkcontribs)

Good, good. Happy to know they know about that. Regards & sorry.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No problem, the fault is on my side. :)

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think it is a bug too.

Share your experience and feedback as a Wikimedian in this global survey

1
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)
  1. This survey is primarily meant to get feedback on the Wikimedia Foundation's current work, not long-term strategy.
  2. Legal stuff: No purchase necessary. Must be the age of majority to participate. Sponsored by the Wikimedia Foundation located at 149 New Montgomery, San Francisco, CA, USA, 94105. Ends January 31, 2017. Void where prohibited. Click here for contest rules.
Summary by Trizek (WMF)
Reptilien.19831209BE1 (talkcontribs)

Bonjour Trizek, désolé de venir t'ennuyer avec une chose aussi peu importante, mais je n'ai pas trouvé le moyen d'activer Flow pour mes pages de discussion sur wa.wiktionary.org et wa.wikipedia.org

Faut-il en faire la demande sur cette page ?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Bonjour

Pas de souci, je suis là pour répondre à ce type demande.

Flow n'est pas installé sur les wikis en Wallon. Il faut donc bien faire une demande sur cette page, une fois un consensus communautaire atteint ou une décision communautaire prise. Il sera alors possible d'activer Flow en Beta pour les utilisateurs ou à la demande pour des pages communautaires spécifiques, comme c'est sur Wikipédia en français.

Reptilien.19831209BE1 (talkcontribs)

Je vais donc lancer une discussion et attendre (un mois ?) avant de venir en faire la demande. Il n'y a pas beaucoup d'utilisateurs là-bas...

Merci :-)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

S'il y a peu d'activité, il peut sembler difficile de savoir si les gens s'expriment. Quand je regarde comment la communauté s'est exprimée, je regarde les modifications récentes pour savoir si une majorité représentative s'est exprimée. Tu peux faire pareil et ainsi contacter directement les personnes actives. :)

Reptilien.19831209BE1 (talkcontribs)

J'ai demandé un avis ici (wa.wiktionary) et ici (wa.wikipedia), je notifie @Lucyin et @Srtxg qui sont les deux (seuls ?) plus gros contributeurs et administrateurs (je crois). Peut-être auront-ils la gentillesse de venir s'exprimer ici.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

C'est bien la première fois que ma page de discussion héberge une telle décision ! Au moins je serai informé en direct ! :)

Reptilien.19831209BE1 (talkcontribs)

... et un mois plus tard, les deux contributeurs actifs sur Wikipedia et Wiktionnaire en Wallon ont voté « oui » pour l'installation de flow. Je pense qu'on peut y aller. :-)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Anomalocaris (talkcontribs)

Thank you for putting in the Translate markup. In the first table, in the third column, the first of the group of five rows with replacement markup for <tt>, discussing <code>,

translate and tvar markup is displaying. I wanted it to display as:

use <code>&nbsp;</code> for nonbreaking space

Could you use the translation markup without changing this display?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you noticing it. It was due to the <nowiki> that conflicted the <translate> tags.

Anomalocaris (talkcontribs)

I tweaked it a bit more. I assume that my changes didn't mess up the translation work.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You will immediately notice when somethings goes wrong: best case the page yells at you turns grey when you want to save it because the markup is unbalanced; worse case, you have wired syntax in the final text (like me earlier today).

By the way, thank you for taking of that page update. :)