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The Collaboration team has enabled Flow on this talk page.

Previous feedback is on Talk:Flow Portal/Archive2 (using old Liquid Threads), and on our labs server.

By clicking "Add topic", you agree to our Terms of Use and agree to irrevocably release your text under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and GFDL
Aryan hindustan (talkcontribs)

How can we sign?

Tropicalkitty (talkcontribs)

Click on the [[ ]] box, and then use four tides to sign.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You don't need to sign, and shouldn't. It's part of the point of Flow. :-)

This comment was hidden by Tropicalkitty (history)
Reply to "How can we sign?"
Doc James (talkcontribs)

*Copy and pasting from the article space works now

*Signatures work? Doc James (talk) 22:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Doc James (talkcontribs)

#Do numbers work?

#Testing Doc James (talk) 22:18, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Doc James (talkcontribs)

I must say VE has gotten a lot better since last time I tested it.

Doc James (talkcontribs)

It is working faster. Does it take references <ref>{{cite journal|last=Weaver|first=AL|title=Epidemiology of gout|journal=Cleveland Clinic journal of medicine|date=July 2008|volume=75 Suppl 5|pages=S9–12|pmid=18819329|doi=10.3949/ccjm.75.Suppl_5.S9}}</ref>

Doc James (talkcontribs)

Not really. This will make it harder to have discussions. We would want to be able to copy and paste text from the article page and have it display mostly correctly so that we can say "should we go with version a or version b"

Sänger (talkcontribs)

You've got the wrong expectations, Flow is not for collaboration, it's just for Blah-blah.

And you missed the double-brackets in the lower-right corner, to use wikitext instead of VE.

  1. As you can see
  2. Numbers are not only possible,
  3. I just got them auto-inserted after hitting return.

Let's try your ref [1]

There was a <nowiki> inserted again automagically without my consent.

  1. Weaver, AL (July 2008). "Epidemiology of gout". Cleveland Clinic journal of medicine 75 Suppl 5: S9–12. doi:10.3949/ccjm.75.Suppl_5.S9. PMID 18819329. 
Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The ref should work fine.[1]

  1. Weaver, AL (July 2008). "Epidemiology of gout". Cleveland Clinic journal of medicine 75 Suppl 5: S9–12. doi:10.3949/ccjm.75.Suppl_5.S9. PMID 18819329. 

@Doc James, As Sänger noted, the icon in the bottom-right corner (in LTR languages) will switch back-and-forth between wikitext and visual editor. We do still need to find a way to make that clearer as a lot of people are missing it, plus a lot of refinement of user-assistance features that help editors who start typing wikitext into the visual editor mode, plus tighter integration with the editor-choice preferences that are under discussion.

FWIW, as long as we're using the correct mode, it is possible to copy&paste either wikitext, or many standard aspects of raw articles (in visualeditor mode), into Flow. Try it out over at Talk:Sandbox. (Much depends on what templates are available locally, of course).

Reply to "Copy and pasting"
Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

(Initially posted by @Peteforsyth here.)

p.s. This is my first time using Flow, and I seem to have generated several errors. I will try to fix them in wikicode after posting; help or suggestions welcome.

I am having trouble with this. Any assistance welcome. I have learned to use the "Edit" button, which is tricky (have to click on the text, not just the shaded area) and learned that my signature doesn't render the way I'm used to. What I still need to learn (and would be glad if somebody could fix for me) is:

  1. How do I ping a user? I tried both the "ping" and "user" templates, which brought up promising-looking wizards (which slowed me down considerably due to the need to use the mouse), but the results both came up as errors. I can't figure out how to make either one work. I was trying to ping Qgil-WMF and then LilaTretikof (WMF), it should be rather obvious in my text where.
  2. The link to the letter is not intended to include the full title of the page, but just the word "letter" in the prose.
  3. I don't know if I used the right "header level" -- if my comment belongs somewhere better, feel free to move it.
  4. My name above should appear as entered in my preferences, "Pete F" instead of "Peteforsyth".

Any help appreciated.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Pete. Long time no see. :-)

Overall: There are 2 different edit-modes. (This does need to be made clearer, because many people are missing it - the most recent discussion was in phab:T101316. (Also, work on related user-assistance tools, such as phab:T116900.)) When editing a post, the icon to switch between wikitext and visual editor modes, is in the bottom-right corner (in LTR languages). Users who have opted-in to the visual editor beta feature, are given that mode by default in Flow.


  1. In wikitext mode, pings work as usual. In visual editor mode, you can just type "@" to open the ping-wizard - it will autocomplete with participants in the current discussion. (sidenote: Various wikis, like here, already used template:@ for the use of the obfuscated email symbol, so we had to invent our own template for global consistency, but it works just the same as the usual "ping" or "reply to" or "user" templates.) -- If you typed "{{" to get there, then what you opened was the generic template-wizard, which is a standard visual editor feature, but not the best way to create @mentions!
  2. Visual editor recently changed the way the cursor appears within links after you insert them, so you have to tap the arrow keys to go in and out of editing the link-text. You just need to edit it from the page itself, not within the "link inspector" (wizard). Even gmail and google docs regularly misunderstand whether I wanted to edit a link's text, or to make unlinked text after the link!
  3. Yup, that seems to be well-placed.
  4. Discussion of the complexities of "display name", are in phab:T90055 (E.g. it's important for people with incompatible language-scripts, but it vastly increases the confusion when a signature doesn't match what is shown in the page-history... etc.). However for your particular case, it might be preferable to just rename your account to User:Pete F which doesn't appear to be taken.

Hope that helps.

Reply to "Questions after a first Flow post"
NickK (talkcontribs)


I have recently tried to make a test on Flow and posted my message on the wrong page (this one instead of Talk:Sandbox). I have immediately found out that this is not the right page and tried either to undo my edit (i.e. remove my comment so that it does not appear on the page anymore) or move my comment (i.e. make it attached to Talk:Sandbox instead of this page). However, I failed to any of this and could not find anything better than hide my comment and mark the topic as resolved.

Still, I would like to know how I can move or remove my own message. This is a very common feature for all discussion systems and is straightforward in wikitext, but it is not clear how I can do it in Flow. Pinging @Jay8g: and @Trizek (WMF): who somehow managed to remove my message.

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

As for moving topics, task T88140.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi NickK. There are menus for the topic and separate menus for each post. It looks like you found the menu for the post, but not the topic-level menu. Do you have any thoughts/suggestions on how to make it clearer?

NickK (talkcontribs)

@Quiddity (WMF): I do see a menu for the topic, but it contains:

  • Edit title
  • History
  • Permalink
  • Summarize
  • Mark as resolved
  • Hide topic

Neither of these allows me to remove or move my topic, i.e. make it disappear from the page I have mistakenly posted it to.

Tropicalkitty (talkcontribs)

Only sysops can delete topics and comments. It is not possible for other users to self-delete their comments and topics they created.

Jay8g (talkcontribs)

That is what Hide is for.

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

Exactly. It's explained here. Your confusion may be caused by translation issues and/or by the difference between "hide" and "undo".

How can I add messages or topics count on tab bar? (ex. "Discussion (43)")

Anvk14 (talkcontribs)

I just want to show how many messages or themes for an article when user sees the main page of article.

Thank you for great extension!

SPage (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Here's how you would show the number of topics on the [Discussion] tab in your Special:MyPage/common.js or a Gadget:

  • make Flow's "table of contents" API request for 100 topics on Discussion page (sample)
  • in a successful API response, zero in on, in jq syntax, .flow["view-topiclist"].result.topiclist.revisions and gets its length (or maybe get the length of ...topiclist.roots, Flow API results are complicated).
  • change length to "99+" if it's 100
  • append this length to the "Discussion" tab with
    $( '#ca-talk a' ).append( ' <span style="color: orange"><small>' + length + '</small></span>');

If you're already viewing the Discussion page there might be a way to reuse the API requests the Flow board has already made or the HTML it has already produced.

"Those who can, do, those who can't, pseudocode" 😎

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

For the moment, discussions are attached to one specific page, but could be displayed on several pages: an article about a band can be displayed the article talk page, but also on wiki projects dedicated to the music style, or the country of origin. It may be possible to display the number of discussion attached to the page, but that is not planned for the moment. Sorry, but that would be a great idea for further developments.

SPage (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Related to this cool suggestion (an excellent opportunity for common.js hack or gadget!?), a problem with Flow-enabled talk pages is if there is no discussion, the [Discussion] tab is still blue, whereas on a regular talk page, a red [Discussion] tab tells me there has never been any discussion. The latter is a huge time-saver for people like me when editing less-trafficked pages. Is there a phab ticket to restore that?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@SPage (WMF): Re: your tangential question, which probably should've been in a separate topic... ;p ... That issue is not the case when a namespace is fully enabled (e.g. the talkpages of new Catalan project-space pages), but it is the case when manually converted - I've filed phab:T117828 to determine why.

This comment was hidden by Tropicalkitty (history)
Anvk14 (talkcontribs)

Hi guys and @Trizek (WMF). My little hack for this :)

$wgHooks['SkinTemplateNavigation'][] = 'replaceTabs';                
function replaceTabs( $skin, &$links) {
    if($skin->getTitle()->getNamespace() == 0){                       
        // Get themes count
        $dbr = wfGetDB( DB_SLAVE );                                      
        $cnt = $dbr->selectRowCount (
            ['workflow_namespace'=>1, 'workflow_title_text'=>$skin->getTitle()->mDbkeyform]
        $cnt -= 1;
        if($cnt > 0){
            // Set class (remove red link style)
            if($links['namespaces']['talk']['class'] =='new'){
                $links['namespaces']['talk']['class'] = 'collapsible';
            // Add topics count
            $links['namespaces']['talk']['text'] .= ' ('.$cnt.')';
    return true;
Reply to "How can I add messages or topics count on tab bar? (ex. "Discussion (43)")"

As some seem to want to implement this even on unwilling Wikis...

Summary by Jdforrester (WMF)

Not true.

Sänger (talkcontribs) do you guarantee not to make the same huge mistake Erik did with MV again: Forcing it down the throat of communities against their explicit wish?

OK, superputsch is no longer, but task T117990 suggests, that there are some people eager to disregard the communities and wreak havoc again for their pet project, this time this weak forum impersonation called Flow.

Please make clear, that before any implementation on any page on any wiki a community consensus will be reached, and only then it will be implemented, and be it just for testing.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry, you are starting from some wrong assumptions and running with them to make bigger wrong assumptions.

Sänger (talkcontribs)

Can I take this as a clear and unambiguous:

"Flow will never be implemented against community consensus on a Wikimedia project, consensus has to be made before any testing takes place."

If yes, you can close this in a few days.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I will generally not implement changes to release novel changes where there is a community consensus based on true information. However, I cannot make claims about "never"; in 200 years' time my successors might make different decisions. :-)

Sänger (talkcontribs)

I don't trust anyone of the WMF (don't take it personally) with some sentence like "based on true information", not after the massive lies told about the superputsch/MV disaster, that was 99.5% WMFs fault and 0.5% deWP. DeWP did make extremely true informed decisions, while those of the head honchos Erik and Fabrice were mere vain wishful thinking and arrogance of might.

I sincerely hope that this will never happen again, but the Phab at least suggests, that this weak forum impersonation Flow will perhaps be forced upon unwilling communities. nd the made-up reasoning lyrics will probably follow some fairy tales of "non-true information" or such, if the communities didn't follow the fanboys in their fantasy world.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

If you're just going to be rude and make assumptions of bad faith I don't know how I can make you happy. :-(

Sänger (talkcontribs)

Say clear and unambiguous that the WMF will not force Flow anywhere, that before any implementation a clear consensus for Flow has to be reached in the respective projects.

Ah, and it would be quite helpful, if the WMF would officially admit, that not only the use of superprotect was wrong, but the implementation of the MV as opt-out against the absolutely clear community consensus was wrong, full stop. If it cold come to this conclusion, imho the only legitimate way to do, and state so in the open, it would be a good step as well.

There was not only an apology necessary for superprotect, that was so out of anything legitimate, only the wackiest persons could see merit in it, that it should have happened the very next day if decent persons would have been acting. No the deliberate acting against the communities by keeping this useless bling-thing MV opt-out instead of the only proper opt-in is something that deserves a heartfelt apology.

Reply to "As some seem to want to implement this even on unwilling Wikis..."
محمد شعیب (talkcontribs)

Hi, Please see this image, displaying in fixed width, and in full width it is displaying correctly.

Reply to "Image in urdu wikipedia"

Fixing a typo should not bump the topic to the top

Subfader (talkcontribs)

Fix a typo in an older post on Project:Support desk and the topic will move to the top.

Not intended imo.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Do you have any suggestions on how to differentiate between diffs that ought to bump a topic, and those that ought not?

I suspect byte-count change-sizes are too ambiguous (someone could be replacing the/their entire post, with an equal length string)...

Should edits to existing posts, ever bump the topic?

This new software gives us a lot more visibility into whether and when a post was edited, but how can we continue to improve upon this?

Tangent note: I described a related request at phab:T94711 ("Flow API - need a way for bots to edit posts, without notifying author by default, maybe without affecting 'updated' topic ordering")

BurritoBazooka (talkcontribs)

"Should edits to existing posts, ever bump the topic?"

In normal forum software, this behaviour doesn't happen by default. I reckon there should be a check box ("bump after this edit" or something, or maybe the negative "do not bump after this edit"), which I recall seeing in some forum software, but I can think that some designers would have reasons why they don't want to implement that. I'm not sure what those reasons would be, though.

Reply to "Fixing a typo should not bump the topic to the top"

Wie wird sichergestellt, dass alle erforderlichen Bots auf Flow-Seiten funktionieren?

Sänger (talkcontribs)

s. bei task T117990 die Frage von Luke.

Diese Funktionalität hat von denjenigen gewährleistet zu werden, die das unbedingt umsetzen wollen, also den bezahlten Flow-Pushern der WMF, nicht den Communities.

For those only capable of english:

How do you ensure that all required bots work flawless on Flow-pages?

Look in task T117990 at the question of Luke:

It's the duty of those who wish to enable Flow in different wikis, that's those paid Flow-pushers in the WMF, not the communities, that all required bots will work as requested.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

There are a huge number of independently developed bot frameworks/libraries (see: most of the non-tutorial links, under Manual:Creating a bot#Programming languages and libraries).

The popular Pywikibot framework has already been updated to work with Flow (phab:T67119) but more followup-work is needed.

The primary tracking task is phab:T107093, which will indeed need more work, especially work such as providing easily re-usable or adaptable code-examples, for the experts (those who wrote the bots, and know the particular languages) to merge into their library's/bot's code.

For userscripts/gadgets that just need to create a new post, there are instructions for a code-update at Flow/Architecture/API#Posting a new topic from on-wiki JavaScript which will handle both wikitext and flow.

Reply to "Wie wird sichergestellt, dass alle erforderlichen Bots auf Flow-Seiten funktionieren?"

Where to find a talk format that puts most recent on top?

Summary last edited by SPage (WMF) 01:56, 6 November 2015 18 days ago

Flow does this, showing either Newest topics or Recently active topics first. (talkcontribs)

I'm looking for a talk page format that pushes threads with recent posts to the top of the talk page. anyone seen such a thing?~~~~ (talkcontribs)

does flow do that!?

Some thing (talkcontribs)

I have been looking for this as an extension for years! Please incorporate this into the next media wiki release. How can i download this in beta NOW?

SPage (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Some thing, Flow is a separate extension you can install on other wikis. Its deployment on Wikimedia wikis proceeds according to community consensus. Or are you asking for a "Recently active topics" feature on "plain" wikitext talk pages?

Tropicalkitty (talkcontribs)

In terms of comments inside those topics themselves, I don't believe that is possible at this time.