Talk:Flow

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The Collaboration team has enabled Flow on this talk page (documentation).

Previous feedback is on Talk:Flow Portal/Archive2 (using old Liquid Threads), and on our labs server.

You can leave your message in any language, but answers will be made in English (or your language if we speak it).

By clicking "Add topic", you agree to our Terms of Use and agree to irrevocably release your text under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and GFDL
Murbaut (talkcontribs)

Do you know how to add "Start a new topic" button. In mycss see I use flow id flow

Vriullop (talkcontribs)

Use link https://id.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Warung_Kopi_(Bantuan)&action=new-topic

Murbaut (talkcontribs)

Thanks :) I like it

Murbaut (talkcontribs)

@Vriullop: And but how to mark topic "Done"?

Murbaut (talkcontribs)

how to flow-lock?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You want to create a button to mark a topic as done ("resolved")?

Murbaut (talkcontribs)

yes

Reply to "Problem with flow mycss"
Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

- posts are "in the box" (a nickname, menu, answer, date)

- this adds parasitic text to the flow - conversation flow is interrupted disturbing "answer*thank" - it reads, it interferes

- left part of the flow is obtained overloaded text "nick-message-answer*thank...again"

- sequence "line-answer-line-nick-line" visually takes unforgivable plenty of space in the debate, eats space adding ragged white void "in the center" between "answer-date nick-menu"

- words answer*thanks constantly falls in the "read the post" - when you read posts in a row on the board is obtained as the radio traffic "A-bbbbb-c-d, A-bbbb-c-d..."(nick-message-answer*thank). This "thank" can be safely moved to the menu, or replace per symbol that is not read mentally

- bold nick dominates the text. Message is important and not the one who wrote it. If this is done in order to improve the vision of people with low vision, then again, it is more important than the appearance of the text and not the author.

This is variant image

div > .flow-post-meta { position: absolute; top: 0em; float: right; right: 3em;} .flow-post-timestamp {float: left;} .flow-post-meta-actions {float: none;} div > .flow-post-content {margin-top: -0.5em;}

- the bottom line is raised up to the menu, and the discussion has become "easier" to read from top to bottom on the left


another variant - button "compact view". which would move messages closer to each other, and additional text is shown only when you hover over the message.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for these suggestions. Your feedback is shared by other users, that have suggested changes like yours. We need to have a look at it.

At the moment, no further improvements will be made until a clear roadmap has been defined. That will happen in a few months from now. More information about that will be posted on the new Collaboration team products newsletter.

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

I saw an old discussion. And they are very similar to "flow". Maybe the comparison with the old and as we read/write today will help improve the "flow".

Reply to "Heavy view"
A2093064 (talkcontribs)

I use "$wgNamespaceContentModels[NS_USER_TALK] = CONTENT_MODEL_FLOW_BOARD;" to enable Flow in User_talk namespace. But now I want to disable it (Keep using Flow in other namespaces).

When I remove the above code, I got {"flow-workflow":"t8kftrqtinnh54af"} in those page in User_talk. And I can't use Special:EnableFlow to enable Flow on it.

Edward Chernenko (talkcontribs)

You can probably use Special:ChangeContentModel on those pages, thus marking them as "flow boards" manually. Edward Chernenko (talk) 18:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

Make sure you have $wgContentHandlerUseDB set to true (it is true by default).

Then, set User talk back to Flow, and follow the steps at Extension:Flow#Enabling or disabling Flow. In your case, you just need the =3 set of commands. I just added those docs (sorry, it wasn't properly documented before).

Basically, this sets the correct values for existing pages and revisions, so it is safe to change the defaults.

Let me know how that goes.

A2093064 (talkcontribs)

It works. Thank you for your help.

Daylen (talkcontribs)

Trizek (WMF) What will talk page templates such as talk header and WikiProject banners look like in flow?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Same as they do now, only on the side of the page. See w:fr:Wikipédia:Forum des nouveaux/Flow for an example. All the things that would normally be at the top of the page (and you have to scroll past them to see any comments) are in a dedicated space on the side of the page.

Daylen (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF) Would templates such as this and this be redesigned for the new layout? Also, what would the side panel look like on a mobile device?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

In theory, templates are designed to be adaptable to any screen size. If not (fixed width, strictly sized elements), that's already an issue for the current talk pages. :)

In a perfect world, WikiProject templates that are posted on talk pages should be moved to another tab, to have only discussions on the talk page.

You can see the view of any Flow board on mobile by switching to the mobile view, like this: https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Forum_des_nouveaux/Flow If the screen is really narrow, the description goes on top of the page.

Reply to "Talk page templates"
Sänger (talkcontribs)

Please fill out this survey, which is administered by a third-party service. It will not require an email or your username. See our privacy statement

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Distribution of an invitation for Mediawikiwiki users will be done today or at the beginning of next week. It has been postponed due to difficulties to identify active users on that wiki.

ImperfectlyInformed (talkcontribs)

I wasn't really a fan of this survey. I ended up filling out N/A for almost everything. I don't think it's fair to say Flow is better or worse than the alternative right now per se, because it does have weaknesses and strengths. I don't want to mislead the Product team into thinking that Flow is perfect, but I also don't want to discourage them. Flow is necessary, and lots of good progress has been made. Admittedly, I haven't really played with Flow much.

Not necessarily comprehensive list of specifics:

  • I do feel like it is not as good as Reddit, which most internet denizens are familiar with. For example, I would like to be able to vote on comments and collapse threads.
  • Outdenting and adding section headings is unclear, and doesn't roll up into a table of contents, as SMcCandlish has noted below (altho I have trouble finding real specific improvement suggestions from the discussion below).
  • "Hide" is weird - not really clear if that hides it for everyone or just me, but I think it hides for everyone? Maybe it should be report or something. Most users (including someone like, who has been editing since 2007) don't feel comfortable just hiding someone's comments.
  • More whitespace and larger font than I'd like. I guess that's probably configurable, but again, think about the audience... Wikipedia discussions are often HUGE, so extra whitespace can get annoying quick.
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your feedback, ImperfectlyInformed!

Flow is not perfect, we know that, and there is a lot of things to improve on it. We expect to have enough community feedback to create a strategy for the future.

I've read some random comments and results, and Flow users mostly have the same opinion as yours: Flow is good, but not that much. It must be improved because there is a lot of features missing. I've also read some comments like yours, suggesting that kind of improvements. I hope we will adress these concerns soon.

Reply to "A survey has started about Flow"

Error when moving from flow back to liquidthreads.

3
50.254.138.165 (talkcontribs)

Hello,

Due to some minor issues with flow that I won't go into, I have decided to go back to LIquidthreads temporarily. I removed the "require_once "$IP/extensions/Flow/Flow.php";" statement for flow from LocalSettings.php, and re-added the require once statement for liquidthreads. Everything is working great except on the talk pages I had created when I was using Flow. To clarify, talk pages that were not created when flow was enabled work fine, only the ones that were created using flow. When I try to access the talk pages that previously had flow pages created on them I get the error:

/index.php/Talk:Organization MWUnknownContentModelException from line 353 of /var/www/html/includes/content/ContentHandler.php: The content model 'flow-board' is not registered on this wiki.

See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_handlers to find out which extensions handle this content model.

Backtrace:

#0 /var/www/html/includes/content/ContentHandler.php(290): ContentHandler::getForModelID(string)

#1 /var/www/html/includes/MediaWiki.php(405): ContentHandler::getForTitle(Title)

#2 /var/www/html/includes/MediaWiki.php(286): MediaWiki->initializeArticle()

#3 /var/www/html/includes/MediaWiki.php(745): MediaWiki->performRequest()

#4 /var/www/html/includes/MediaWiki.php(519): MediaWiki->main()

#5 /var/www/html/index.php(43): MediaWiki->run()

#6 {main}

I know this has something to do with ContentHandler.php and switching the content model away from flow board, but I am unsure how to do this.

Thanks and any help is greatly appreciated.

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

"I removed the "require_once "$IP/extensions/Flow/Flow.php";" statement for flow"

By doing so, you uninstalled Flow. That is why Flow boards no longer work. I don't recommend uninstalling Flow. I think it will cause issues such as broken logs. (You can add that line back to re-enable it.)

If you want to stop using it, you can just move the Flow boards to archive pages (there is a moveBatch.php in core that may be helpful).

If you really want to uninstall Flow, you can first use maintenance/convertToText.php (in the Flow extension) to convert the pages to text, then delete the original Flow versions.

50.254.138.165 (talkcontribs)

Thank you.

Reply to "Error when moving from flow back to liquidthreads."

What can interested users do to help the development of Flow (when it starts again)?

2
BurritoBazooka (talkcontribs)

I really like Flow, and dislike the English Wikipedia's current talk page system. I have witnessed a lot of instances where users are confused about the talk page system and end up using it wrong, many times resulting in their opinions not seen by the relevant people, nevermind considered; and other times resulting in historical discussions being difficult to follow without using the page history to see who said what when.

I think Flow is better for new users, and is a good way of encouraging their input on Wikipedia, thus making Wikipedia grow as a project - at the very least by making it easier for them to submit properly filed edit requests. Although I have a personal leaning towards the freeform style that Wikipedia's talk page system allows for, I want to see Flow succeed for the greater good, and I think there are many others like me. I'm glad to see it being implemented in other Wikimedia projects and I hope that it will benefit them greatly.

I recently noticed that the English Wikipedia has had its Flow extension uninstalled because of the halt in development.

What can people like me do to help Flow succeed? Is there a donation page especially for this extension? Could there be one next time development starts? Is there a bounty program? A box to tick showing our support?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello BurritoBazooka

A good way to help talk page improvements is to show how important it is for you. Thank you for your message!

Flow extension has been uninstalled from English Wikipedia after a community discussion. Some other communities are using Flow on user talk pages, as a Beta feature (people can opt-in) or as the default discussion system (like here, on mediawiki.org).

At the moment, Flow development is stalled, waiting for a decision concerning talk pages improvements. That decision will be partially based on the results of a survey I'm working on at the moment. I hope we can reach a firm decision in 2017. There is no donation page dedicated to that project, but, if you are a developer (PHP), you can help for sure.

You can remain informed about the next steps concerning Flow by subscribing to our monthly newsletter (edit: as you already did).

Reply to "What can interested users do to help the development of Flow (when it starts again)?"
Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

In five minutes anonymous has made 54 changes https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0/Flow&limit=100&action=history

1)to undo his actions have to do again 54 actions

2)he changed the topic title - (from "Horror..." to "") - it turned out that this cannot be undone. When the topic title not in English, for example Russian, in the field "from" fit smaller number of letters. If the topic name is long, it is not entirely fit - " from "Horror..." ". In the history page the line has a buttons "solved" and "hide", but there is no button "cancel" - thus the last part of the title of the topic is lost forever!

3)you can unhide the answer, but but cancel is not working as expected - it turns out that I'm getting a new author as the last editor for summary, for the posts of other users, and so the theme goes up. And it says that I've changed it, although I wanted only to undo the vandalism, returning back the old dates and text for last the real authors of the text. Expected that the cancel will return the oldest date and the previous value of the "last changed text was the user".

This comment was hidden by Trizek (WMF) (history)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Sunpirat

I forgot to answer your questions, sorry. :/

1) We know. that's a problem. However, the Nuke option now works for that.

2) I'll ask @Etonkovidova to have a look at that problem.

3) Just to confirm, you mean that unsuppress a comment creates a new entry in the History of Flow and attributes the edit to the sysop instead of the original author?

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

3) A new entry in the history - it is OK.

Developers are allowed all users to edit posts after a certain time after starting the Flow. Perhaps this part was designed earlier, when was not allow to all.

https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:T9uj52wvz4druk45&action=history I see it:

23:22, 17 August 2016 . . Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk | contribs) edited a comment on "TestingAReallyLongTopicNameThatShouldReallyWrapItself" . . (-1)‎ (undo|hide)
Edited by Roan Kattouw (WMF) 18 August 2016 2:22 AM

When it's vandalism, I can only "undo". In the flow for reading, "post date" and "last changed by user" is displayed as "new" information (new last, new date). I did not "make changes" in message. I was expecting to see the old information that was before the vandalism (author before the vandalism, date before the vandalism). I would like to hide "the version", not to suppress (history for all) as the sysop. (But you can hide only entire post). If for vandalism you are encouraged to fight through to suppress, then the flow-suppress right also had to distribute a larger number of users.

Suppression we use only when obscene language. With the vandalism we use a rollback to the previous version.

Etonkovidova (talkcontribs)

Hi, Sunpriat!

Thank you for your detailed descriptions of issues.

1) Unfortunately, Extension:Nuke won't solve the issue of reverting multiple edits. Extension:Nuke works on deleting multiple pages. For wikitext based pages, the 'rollback multiple edits' is a very convenient option and that option should be implemented for Flow boards too. I am going to file a phabricator task for several issues with rolling back edits/changes on Flow boards/topics.

2) Here are two things

- I checked on how long topic titles are displayed in View history - checked both in English and in Russian. Topic titles are allowed to have 260 bytes and all of them are displayed in View history entries. It might be(although it does not seem to be the case you described) that if a topic is deleted/suppressed, some users cannot see the topic title. Can you provide a link to View history where you observed that topic titles are not displayed entirely?

- and, yes, rollback of changes in topic titles is not implemented. I will add it to the phab ticket I am going to file for the above case (in #1).

3) Yes, the 'undo' action for Summary edits will be attributed to a user who was performing 'undo' action as e.g. 'Summary last edited by [the user who performed 'undo' on Summary edits']. The phrasing probably needs some clarification or rephrasing. It seems that some discussion is needed on what information there will be most useful to users (and another phab task).

Sunpriat (talkcontribs)

4) situation in the description of the Board: https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0/Flow&action=history

(cur prev) 15:29, 26 October 2016 . . 95.49.124.43 (talk) edited the description . . (-28)‎ undo
(cur prev) 15:29, 26 October 2016 . . 95.49.124.43 (talk) edited the description . . (-627)‎ undo

there was a well-decorated description. a vandal came and made some edits in the description

problem: it is impossible to return to an older version - "The edit could not be undone due to conflicting intermediate edits.":

- apparently you can only sequentially undo changes

- it is impossible to access the wiki-text of the old version. The wiki-text of the old version, I can only see through the history and compare revisions. I can't do it comfortably fully open as the wiki-text and copy-paste with new edit or write old version over new. it only remains to copy paragraphs from the comparison of edits in the history


You also cannot see (filter, group) history of the Board description. The history of the Board description can see just thumbing through the pages of the whole Board history or using the next/previous edit - it's uncomfortable

---

2) I didn't notice that there is an active (cur prev topic). Then there is no problem. Yes, long headers are displayed completely (in contrast to beginning content of the posts in history page), thanks for the clarification.

---

3) And in the Topic Summary and in the Post. Yes. Imagine that in the Topic from 2016, a lot of messages will change vandal in 2026 and verse will be "changed in 2026". Thus we are creating a plaque to commemorate the vandal. Here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow/Functional_Specifications/Moderation,_Protection,_and_Refactoring - it is not clear - we can suppress(so not to be seen the (last edit) date of the vandal version) one version of the post or we can only the whole post?

Etonkovidova (talkcontribs)

@Sunpriat

I filed talked to the team and filed a phabricator task about usability issues with View history for Flow board - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T150219. You may want to review to make sure that I've captured all points mentioned by you correctly.

Re #4

- the Suppress actions are not displayed to all users. The suppress action won't be displayed to the author of the post which was suppressed. I mentioned it as a question for discussion in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T150219.

- when suppressing a post - all versions will suppressed. Even if 'suppress' is applied only to a certain revision, the entire post will be gone. Suppressing a topic applies to a current state of an entire topic (users cannot select specific revisions to suppress).

Reply to "Undoing changes"

There's something wrong with my talk page

5
北极星与南十字 (talkcontribs)

My user_talk page()crashed after disabling-re-enabling "Flow" system. Can you tell me how to solve this problem? Mainly thanks.

The information given by the system is "[V@hyawpAAEIAAFYdS4MAAAAW] 2016-09-26 00:57:15: 类型“Flow\Exception\InvalidInputException”的致命错误"

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry to hear that, 北极星与南十字.

I've reported your problem and I'll ask the developers to have a look at it promptly.

Do you know other users with that problem on zh.wikipedia?

北极星与南十字 (talkcontribs)

Thanks for your help.

I haven't heard of other people who meet the same question as mine. If I know about that, I'll report to you.

Willy1018 (talkcontribs)

NO mine "Flow" is crashed too The wrong announce to me is [V-DkGApAIDQAAGDL2WAAAACT] 2016-10-02 10:40:24: 类型“Flow\Exception\InvalidInputException”的致命错误

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

At the moment it is not possible to activate and deactivate Flow on a user talk page. Activate or deactivate Flow will lead to an empty page, with an error message.

Developers are fixing it. I'll post news when some updates will be available.

Reply to "There's something wrong with my talk page"

My Flow can not work now

1
Summary by Trizek (WMF)

At the moment it is not possible to activate and deactivate Flow on a user talk page. Activate or deactivate Flow will lead to an empty page, with an error message.

Developers are fixing it now.

Pdch226 (talkcontribs)

My Flow ConfirmEditer postion can not work

Reply to "My Flow can not work now"