Talk:Content translation/Section translation

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About this board

Please provide feedback about Section Translation. We want to hear about your experience expanding articles by translating new section on your mobile device. You can try the tool at the test instance (you need to create a test account there). It is still in an early development but we want to share it early to hear your impressions.

For feedback on the existing Content translation tool, please check the corresponding discussion page.

Perfect Translation Suggestion cannot be saved in Bengali Wikipedia

1
Anupamdutta73 (talkcontribs)

The tool does not allow the tool to save the suggestion made for a perfect translation done by the Google... I have to make some mistakes before saving.

Reply to "Perfect Translation Suggestion cannot be saved in Bengali Wikipedia"

Requesting this tool on ku.wiki

6
Balyozxane (talkcontribs)

Hi, @UOzurumba (WMF) Can we request access for this tool on ku.wiki? Thank you!

UOzurumba (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Balyozxane,

I appreciate your interest in the Section translation tool. It is possible to request access to this tool; however, we can only enable the tool in Wikis that Content Translation is out of beta. The above means that to enable Section Translation in your Wiki, we have to deploy both Content translation and Section translation in Kurdish Wikipedia.

We can start enabling the tools by notifying your community of our plans to deploy them based on your request. After one week, If we don't get any opposition, we will enable the Content and Section Translation in Kurdish Wikipedia.

Thanks for this inquiry and please let us know if you have other questions or feedback about the tool.

Balyozxane (talkcontribs)

Hello @UOzurumba (WMF), I don't think anyone would oppose this change. Please proceed as you wish. Thank you.

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)
Balyozxane (talkcontribs)

Hi @Pginer-WMF, I've translated the announcement and pinged some (let's be honest all) of the most active users. I've greatly enjoyed the tool on the test wiki and I'm hoping my fellow editors will be able to enjoy this privilege on our home wiki soon :)

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Requesting this tool on ku.wiki"

bnwiki mobile users cannot see in-progress and published items in the modified dashboard

5
Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

Changes made to hide in-progress and published content from the mobile dashboard via phab:T270691 has led to confusion among bnwiki mobile users who used that functionality frequently. Is there any solution we can offer to avoid this, as the unified dashboard is still some time away? Originally reported on my talk page by @আফতাবুজ্জামান and @SHEIKH

আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

(excuse my english) Hi CX team, we know dashboard isn't optimized for mobile and if you start a new translation using it, it will redirect you to desktop mode to translate. But some editor still wants that because after T270691, there is no button to start a whole new translation on mobile. Right now some editor uses tricks like 1. remove m. from url or 2. force browser to show desktop version of CX so they can have dashboard back or 3. got to enwiki's CX, click "+ New Translation", change the language to en, start a new translation and then tool will redirect you to bnwiki to translate.

It would be nice if we can have both options. so, if someone wants section translation, they can use that or if someone want to start a whole new translation, they can do that too.

MdsShakil (talkcontribs)
SHEIKH (talkcontribs)
দয়াকরে অনুবাদ করেদিন।

বাংলা উইকিপিডিয়ায় প্রায় ৯০% লোক মোবাইল ব্যবহারকারী, তার মধ্যে প্রায় সবাই কমবেশি বিষয়বস্তু অনুবাদ ব্যবহার করে। বর্তমানে ইউআরএল থেকে m. বাদ দিলে কিংবা ব্রাউজারকে ডেক্সটপ মুডে যেতে জোর করলেও অনুবাদ করা যাচ্ছেনা। আগে মোবাইলে যে বিষয়বস্তু অনুবাদ ছিল সেখানেও কিন্তু ইউআরএল থেকে m. বাদ দিতে কিংবা ব্রাউজারকে ডেক্সটপ মুডে যেতে জোর করে এর পরেই অনুবাদ করা যেত। মোবাইল মুডে অনুবাদ করা যেত না। মোবাইল মুডে অনুবাদ কখনোই সচ্ছ পাইনি। বিশেষ করে বাংলা উইকিতে মোবাইলে অনুবাদ টুল ঠিক করার অনুরোধ থাকবে।

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks for all the feedback, and thanks for using the translation tool.

We plan to support the translation of new articles on mobile soon. This work will be a continuation of the work we already did to search for a specific article to translate. In this way, users on mobile would be able to do both (a) translating new articles and (b) expanding existing ones. In both cases, using the mobile-specific editor of section translation.

The long term plan is to have just one unified dashboard that could lead to a desktop or mobile editor depending on the user device. For that to happen we'll be improving the Section Translation dashboard to incorporate the missing features.

Section translation was launched early to learn from the community at an early stage and improve the tool based on that. At the beginning of the project, Content Translation was not directly usable from a mobile device (requiring some of the workarounds described above to access the desktop version on a mobile device). Currently, we are providing some partial support directly on mobile that will be getting better over time.

I understand that some of the intermediate steps can bring some confusion, but I think that having an integrated experience will be preferred in the long term rather than separating the two versions of the dashboard further (which has maintenance costs and potential for confusion too).

Reply to "bnwiki mobile users cannot see in-progress and published items in the modified dashboard"
Yahya (talkcontribs)

Hi, I tried to translate from en to bn on test server. It shows original english text in proposed translation from Google/Yanadex.

UOzurumba (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Yahya,

I have created a bug report for this issue. We will resolve it as soon as possible and I will notify you once this is sorted out so you can still give us your valuable feedback on the Section Translation tool.

Thank you so much.

UOzurumba (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Yahya,

Please note that the cloud test instances cannot have Google/Yandex Machine Translation as it requires private API keys, which can not store in instances safely. Machine translation will become active once the tool is deployed. Thank you.

Yahya (talkcontribs)

And is it possible to add Bing translator?

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

Hi @Yahya it will not be possible for us to use any of the commercial services, including Bing on the test instances due to security reasons. However, we have started some conversations with our colleagues with the partnership teams for eventual inclusion of Bing on the translation platforms in the main wikis. This is a follow up from our earlier conversations . Unfortunately, these processes take a bit of time (many months) so it is a slow process and includes both legal, and technical coordination. Your inputs on the earlier thread were very helpful for us in terms of understanding the translation quality comparisons. At this point, we don't have a clear timeline for this, but hopefully soon. Hope this was helpful.

37.111.230.106 (talkcontribs)

How many day it on active bnwiki?

37.111.202.245 (talkcontribs)

Active now.

Reply to "Nothing translated"

প্রাথমিক প্রতিক্রিয়া

11
আফতাবুজ্জামান (talkcontribs)

(User:Runab WMF, যদি সম্ভব হয় অনুগ্রহ করে অনুবাদ করে দিন) অনুচ্ছেদ অনুবাদ চালুর জন্য ধন্যবাদ। এখানে আমার প্রাথমিক প্রতিক্রিয়া দিলাম:

  • এই মুহুর্তে MT সেবা (যেমন গুগল অনুবাদ) কাজ করছে না।
  • কোন অনুসন্ধান ঘর নেই। ফলে আমি আমার পছন্দের নিবন্ধ অনুবাদ করার জন্য খুঁজে নিতে পারছি না।
  • আমাকে যেকটি নিবন্ধের পরামর্শ দেয়া হয়েছে, বেশিরভাগে কেবল "See also", "reference", "external link" নেই দেখাচ্ছে। ইংরেজি উইকির সকল নিবন্ধে "reference" অনুচ্ছেদে কেবল {{reflist}} বা <reference/> দেয়া থাকে। ফলে এটি অনুবাদের কিছু নেই। "See also" অনুচ্ছেদের সকল নিবন্ধ বাংলা উইকিতে না থাকায় লাল লিঙ্কের সৃষ্টি হচ্ছে। যা বলতে চাচ্ছি তা হল "See also", "reference", "external link" নেই এমন নিবন্ধকে প্রাধান্য না দিয়ে বিষয়বস্তু নেই এমন নিবন্ধ পরামর্শ হিসেবে দেখালো ভালো হয়।
  • যখন অনুচ্ছেদ অনুবাদ করে প্রকাশ করা হচ্ছে তখন তা নিবন্ধের একদম শেষে যোগ হচ্ছে। সব সময় অনুচ্ছেদ একদম শেষে যোগ করা উচিত নয়, নতুবা এটি ঠিক করতে প্রতিবার অতিরিক্ত সম্পাদনার প্রয়োজন হবে। আমি মনে করি এই ক্ষেত্রে অনুচ্ছেদ_অনুবাদ সরঞ্জামকে বুদ্ধিমান হওয়া জরুরী। এমন হওয়া উচিত:
    • যদি অনূদিত অনুচ্ছেদটি "বহিঃসংযোগ" হয় তবে একদম শেষে যোগ হওয়া ঠিক আছে।
    • যদি অনূদিত অনুচ্ছেদটি "আরও দেখুন" হয় তবে তা বহিঃসংযোগ ও তথ্যসূত্রের আগে (যদি নিবন্ধে থাকে) যোগ হওয়া উচিত।
    • যদি অনূদিত অনুচ্ছেদটি অন্য কোন কিছু হয় হয় তবে তা বহিঃসংযোগ, তথ্যসূত্র ও আরও দেখুনের আগে (যদি নিবন্ধে থাকে) যোগ হওয়া উচিত।
Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

অনেক ধন্যবাদ বিস্তারিত প্রতিক্রিয়া দেওয়ার জন্য। প্রথম সমস্যাটা আমরা কালকেই দেখেছি আর আপাতত এটা ঠিক করা হচ্ছে। এই কারণেই আমরা সব সময় ঘোষনার আগে কয়েকদিন নিজেরা পরীক্ষা করে নিই। বাকি সমস্যাগুলি আমি ইংরাজিতে নিচে লিখে নিচ্ছি যাতে টিমের বাকি সদস্যরা পড়ে নিতে পারেন।

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

Translation of the feedback from @আফতাবুজ্জামান . @Pginer-WMF please do check.

  • MT is not working
  • I could not find a way to search an article
  • The suggestions I am being shown are mostly with missing ’see also’, ‘reference’ and ‘external link’. Most enwiki articles have {{reflist}} or <reference/> so there is nothing to translate in this section really. For the ’See also’ section, since the other articles do not exist in bnwiki, they are showing as redlinks. So, instead of showing articles with missing ‘reference’, ‘external links’ and ’see also’ sections, please prioritize articles with real content sections missing.
  • When a section is being published it is getting added to the very end of the article, like this. The section should not be added at the very end at all times, else it would require additional editing time to correct this. Section translation should instead deal with this more intelligently. For instance:
    • If the added section is an ‘external link’ then its ok to be added at the end
    • If the added section is a ’see also’ then it should be added before ‘external links’ and ‘reference’ section, assuming those two sections exist for that article
    • If the added section is something else, then it should be added before ‘external links’, ‘reference’ and ‘see also’ section, assuming those two sections exist for that article.
Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thanks @আফতাবুজ্জামান for the feedback and your interest in the tool. This is an early version of the tool with many areas to improve, and your input is very useful to help. us understand which are the most needed ones. I'll add below some more details on the different issues mentioned:


MT is not working

We are in the middle of the deployment process and this is a blocker. The team is actively working on fixing the issue. This will be resolved before broader announcements of the tool are made since it is a key part of it.


I could not find a way to search an article

The very first version of the tool is only providing suggestions. As part of the next iterations we plan to support the ability to search for an article to translate. There are more detail in this ticket (soon to be updated with more design details).

Meanwhile it is possible to access any article by adjusting the URL (example to translate sections from the Moon article). It is not very convenient, but some advanced users may find it useful until a proper UI is created.


The suggestions I am being shown are mostly with missing ’see also’, ‘reference’ and ‘external link’.

Suggestions are based on previously translated articles with Content Translation. It makes sense to filter them further to make sure more relevant ones are surfaced. I added your comment to the related ticket to make sure it is visible when the team works on this.


When a section is being published it is getting added to the very end of the article

With this we were not sure to which degree to automate this and where interested in observing real use. What you mention makes perfect sense. I added your comment to this ticket which captures our initial ideas around this.


Thanks a lot for the early feedback!

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

@আফতাবুজ্জামান - একবার দেখে নেবেন আপনার মতামত সব ইংরেজিতে ঠিক লেখা হয়েছে কি না।

Yahya (talkcontribs)

আরেকটি সমস্যা, চিত্রযুক্ত অনুচ্ছেদের চিত্রগুলো অন্যান্য লেখা ও বাটন ঢেকে ফেলছে। এই স্ক্রিনশটটি দেখুন।

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

আপনি কোন ব্রাউজার ব্যবহার করছেন? আমি ডাকডাকগো-তে এরকম দেখেছি কিন্তু ক্রোম-এ ঠিক ছিল।

Yahya (talkcontribs)

আমি ক্রোম ব্রাউজারের পুরনো সংস্করণ ব্যবহার করেছি।

Runab WMF (talkcontribs)

ohh. কত নম্বর সংস্করণ একটু বলতে পারবেন?


@Pginer-WMF viewport problem in Chrome as well as seen by @Yahya . But older version, which is my question in the earlier line.

Yahya (talkcontribs)

Chrome 87.0.4280.66

Yahya (talkcontribs)

আরও একটি সমস্যা! অনুবাদের সাথে তথ্যসূত্র যুক্ত হচ্ছে না। আমি bn:আদ্দিস আবাবা নিবন্ধের দুটি অনুচ্ছেদ অনুবাদ করেছি। অনুবাদ প্রকাশের পর কোনওটিতেই তথ্যসূত্র যুক্ত হয় নি, যা পরে আমি হাতে যোগ করে দিয়েছি।

Reply to "প্রাথমিক প্রতিক্রিয়া"

About the message that is shown in the article to invite to the user to translate other section

2
Rodney Araujo (talkcontribs)

I view that in the section translation test server, after publish a translation of a section, the message that invites to the user to translate other section and the highlighted section is not shown. Can you resolve the issue? Thanks.

Pginer-WMF (talkcontribs)

Hi @Rodney Araujo,

this part of the UI is currently being worked on. You can get more details and track the progress in this ticket.

Thanks!

Reply to "About the message that is shown in the article to invite to the user to translate other section"

Section Translation: I have a question

7
Rodney Araujo (talkcontribs)

I have a question: When I make a section translation with the test server, the translations is published or not?

Thanks.

EAsikingarmager (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi, the test environment will load content from real wikis, but editing and publishing only happens in the test server. So, nothing is published in the real wiki. This means that for now you should copy/save your work if you want to manually add it and publish it to the real wiki article later. Eventually this added step won't be necessary. Hope this helps answer your question.

Rodney Araujo (talkcontribs)

Thanks. And the test of Section Translation works well.

Rodney Araujo (talkcontribs)

But the MT that only works is Apertium. I need that the Section translation adds support for Google, Yandex and other MT services.

EAsikingarmager (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for taking the time to try Section Translation, Rodney. Once it's no longer in the test server, all the usual MT services currently available with Content Translation should be available.

Rodney Araujo (talkcontribs)
EAsikingarmager (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Rodney, thanks for the question, I hope this answer will be useful for you, as well as others who may have a similar question. Section Translation is still actively in development, but once we evaluate it's usefulness and safety, and collect feedback from communities, the plan is to release it on Wikipedia. Initially it will be released for one language and we'll evaluate how it works for editors when translating real content. Based on those results and community input, we'll hopefully discover good opportunities to make it available to more languages and wikis. We'll continue to post relevant updates here as development progresses.

Reply to "Section Translation: I have a question"
Svetprobirsk (talkcontribs)

Hello!

It is impossible to try the Section Translation at the test server, because it just shows the interface, and functions are not available.

Santhosh.thottingal (talkcontribs)

Hi, Section translation is in development. But if you are curious to see the current state, please visit https://sx.wmflabs.org/index.php/Main_Page , create account, login, click on the links given main page of that wiki.

கி.மூர்த்தி (talkcontribs)

Hello sir

Yes, I am not able translate anything by using content translation tool

K. Murthy

Tamil wikipedia

Santhosh.thottingal (talkcontribs)

Hi, Could you please explain what problems are you facing while using content translation?

கி.மூர்த்தி (talkcontribs)

Sir Now it is working Thank you for asking yours k murthy

Reply to "Section Translation"
RIT RAJARSHI (talkcontribs)
Reply to "This is a great proposal"
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