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template parameters on pages having outdated translation

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)

See Special:Diff/2364666. The parameter name "1=" should be specified explicitly. Please check all translatable pages passing translatable parameters to templates.

  • {{notice|<span class="mw-translate-fuzzy">outdated translation</span>}}
Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

If TNT is used, it should be:


Or even:


Using Pywikibot one can get a list of possible affected pages with this query:

python scripts/ -family:mediawiki -regex -ns:0 -grep:"\\{\\{[^\\}\\[]+\\|<translate>" -start

changing -ns:0 with -ns:Help, -ns:Extension, -ns:Skin, -ns:Api and -ns:Project on every iteration.

I've mentioned this issue in task T60429#2957882

Reply to "template parameters on pages having outdated translation"
IExit (talkcontribs)

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

as I got the problem that watching and unwatching a topic isn't working anymore, I wanted to ask you, if you got a solution. "action=tokens has been deprecated. Please use action=query&meta=tokens instead."

I dont get where to edit the URLs in the action menu, so you may tell me where I can do this.

Best Regards,

MarkAHershberger (talkcontribs)

I just watched this topic without problem. Could you give more details about your problem?

Wargo (talkcontribs)

Do you use watching tab in interface or you have gadget/own application? What wiki?

Reply to "Watching / Unwatching not working"

Using watchlist notice for Code of Conduct calls for feedback

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

At Talk:Code_of_Conduct/Draft#Wider_participation.2C_still there is a discussion about how to announce calls for feedback about the proposed Code of Conduct for technical spaces to contributors. The idea of a watchlist notice has been suggested. As far as I am aware, we haven't used this feature in mw.o before. I guess this is a good place to ask for feedback about using this feature for this purpose.

Technically, this seems to be done by editing MediaWiki:Watchlist-details. Questions:

  • Is this use of watchlist notice OK or not?
  • Should we do it by editing MediaWiki:Watchlist-details or is there another way?
  • Should we use plain text with links or i.e. a Template:Notice?
  • How often and how long should these notices be kept, i.e. One week every time that there is a major call for feedback or more often?
Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Personally, I really dislike the abuse of that part of the interface for important messages, but I understand that some wikis think it's OK. We've never done it here, and I'd be sad to see it start.

More objectively, however, I also think it would be a waste of time for this wiki; very few people are active on in the way that editors of other wikis are, because a lot of the "action" occurs off-wiki, in tasks (Phabricator), in code (gerrit/GitHub/etc.), or for third party users of MediaWiki in particular, on their local systems, and so the use of the watchlist as the key place people see is not likely to work. The people who use their watchlists on this wiki (like me) are mostly wiki gnomes rather than the key people to involve. A logged-in-only sitenotice would probably have a much better effect at reaching the useful people for this work.

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

I have no objection to using a watchlist notice, though I agree with James a lot of contributors don't use the wiki that often, and probably use the watchlist even less. I also think the site notice is a good idea, but we probably want to limit it to text approvals (rather than "please help discuss this"). We don't want to be too intrusive, and the site notice appears on every page.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I personally find CentralNotice banners way more obtrusive than a one-line text on the sitenotice. CentralNotice banners appear for me several days on a week, with images, even if I dismiss them, while the sitenotice can be dismissed once and forever (until someone updates the sitenotice ID)

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

I propose to try something, be ready to pull back if there are justified complaints, and then fine tune next actions based on feedback.

A logged-in-only sitenotice looks like a good candidate for a first try, indeed. How is that requested and implemented? I propose to figure out these details and prepare a sitenotice for the approval of the Cases page, expected to start in a couple of weeks, after the call for feedback started yesterday by Matt has settled and remaining issues have been identified.

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

It may be just one week before starting the approval discussion, depending on how much feedback on Cases there is.

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

I agree a simple dismissable text sentence is fine. No need for an image.

The documentation is at Manual:Interface/Sitenotice , but I'm not entirely clear from that how it interacts with CentralNotice. Someone from Fundraising Tech probably knows.

@AGreen (WMF), how would we configure it if we want a dismissable text notice here and on

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

Talked to @Awight (WMF) and @AGreen (WMF)

Looks like CentralNotice is the best option here. It doesn't yet support (phab:T147036), but I don't think that's a deal-breaker. I would guess most users of will either see it on or have heard about it already.

That will allow a banner that is:

  • text (CentralNotice supports HTML, but a text-only HTML banner is not a problem)
  • Logged-in only (just don't check "Anonymous users")
  • Dismissable (need to add the "Close button" explicitly when drafting the banner, but then it will just work).

Awight said the SiteNotice would probably be problematic for caching. This looks to be the case. Not only does it show to anons (which we don't want), it will be cached for 30 days.

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)


This comment was hidden by Ciencia Al Poder (history)
Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

@Seddon (WMF) @Qgil-WMF @AGreen (WMF) @Awight (WMF) Do you know who we can work with on this? I don't think I have the permissions to create a banner.

I saw meta:CentralNotice/Request , but it says it needs to be "10 days in advance of any campaign". We will have to update it frequently, and I would prefer not to have a 10-day lead time each time.

AGreen (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Sorry for the delay in replying!! Is it too late, or is this already solved? I think the 10-day lead time only refers to programming the campaign, not updating banners. Also, I suspect it's probably not that strict. :)

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

(I don't know)

Reply to "Using watchlist notice for Code of Conduct calls for feedback"

How and where to store wikitool descriptions

Alexmar983 (talkcontribs)

Hi. I hope I am posting in the right place. Please take a look in m:Wikimedia_Forum#Tools_descriptions._Is_there_a_right_place_to_store_them.3F if this topic is of any interest.

Reply to "How and where to store wikitool descriptions"
Shirayuki (talkcontribs)

About Special:Diff/2330966, should not we use {{ll}} on help pages?

Should we replace all {{ll}} transclusion!?

Reply to "About Template:ll"

Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual

Tohaomg (talkcontribs)

I want to translate Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual, but only the beginning is available for translation.

Koavf (talkcontribs)

If you look at the code, you will see that there are several <translate> tags all throughout the document but only the beginning section has the necessary comments to mark individual sections (such as <!--T:1225-->). If you insert more of these numbered sections, then more pieces will become translatable.

Tohaomg (talkcontribs)

I tried to do it, but it had no effect.

Koavf (talkcontribs)

The subheading reading "License" is now available for translation. There just need to be more comments.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

Please, do not add those markers manually. They're inserted automatically when the current revision of the page is marked for translation, something that only a translation admin can do.

Poking @Shirayuki:

Tohaomg (talkcontribs)

Hello! Anybody here?

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I've poked Shirayuki personally and pointed me to Extension talk:Scribunto/Lua reference_manual#Translation of the reference manual. He says the page is very complex and must be split in subpages or similar.

Tohaomg (talkcontribs)

So will it be done?

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

If someone splits the page as said on the talk page :)

Tohaomg (talkcontribs)

Only administrator can do it, or I can too?

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)

Split into multiple subpages like Manual:HuggleManual:Huggle. You can do it!

Reply to "Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual"
2601:240:8301:2AD0:1531:AFC0:E208:ED82 (talkcontribs)

Is there something a [directional?] notion/implementation of distance between Wikipedia categories/pages? For example consider: A) "Saint Louis University" B) "university"

Clearly "A" is a type of "B". How can you extract this from Wiki? If you extract all the categories connect to A, you'd see that it gives

Category:1818 establishments in Missouri Territory Category:Articles containing Latin-language text Category:Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities Category:Commons category with local link same as on Wikidata Category:Coordinates on Wikidata Category:Educational institutions established in 1818 Category:Instances of Infobox university using image size Category:Jesuit universities and colleges in the United States Category:Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis Category:Roman Catholic universities and colleges in Missouri

and it does not contain anything that would directly connect to B ( But essentially if you look further, you should be able to find a multi-hop path between A and B, possibly multiple hops.

MarkAHershberger (talkcontribs)

You're looking for WikiData. If you visit Saint Louis University, you'll see a link titled "🖉Edit links" that will take you to the WikiData page where you can see that the university is an instance of a university.

As far as distance, I'm sure that you could compute that using WikiData if you wanted.

Reply to "Api for concept distances?"
Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

We've been using the translate extension for a while now on this wiki, which definitely needs more multilingual support, so I think we should greatly expand its usage, by deciding where to start. The aim is to reach more MediaWiki users (rather than developers); benefits have to be balanced by costs, and in some areas the extension is easier to use than in others (or even easier than continuing with {{Languages}} and so on). Some ideas:

  1. Most viewed pages: I've done some, but they often need an update/revamp in English too.
  2. Configuration variables: hundreds of them have the corresponding Manual: page translated and can be assumed of interest. The pages use a common pattern and most important info is in the template, so – in principle – translations can be moved to the new system (semi)automatically.
  3. Help pages would be the most useful in theory, but those we have here are very specific and limited. It makes no sense to translate most of them, because the "real help pages" and their translations are in fact on Meta or scattered among Wikipedias (or other Wikimedia projects.
Leucosticte (talkcontribs)

About #3: What about the users of non-WMF wikis? Wouldn't translated help pages be helpful for them?

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

Yes but one should first move the up-to-date and complete English pages here from Meta and other wikis (finding a solution for licensing problems and also convincing them not to keep outdated copies around), which is not going to happen.

Leucosticte (talkcontribs)

You may be right. I think it was a mistake to insist on public domain Help pages, and that we are reaping the harmful consequences of that decision. But to fix it would require acknowledging that a mistake was made, and sometimes people are resistant to that.

HappyDog (talkcontribs)

I disagree - PD help pages are a very good idea. However, it is a mistake to think they will be of any real use until we provide a workable method of distibuting them. I think it is a fairly safe assumption that if there was an easy way to import the default help pages into your local wiki, in the appropriate language(s), then that would be sufficient encouragement for the current pages to be tidied up (if, indeed, that is necessary - I haven't looked at them for a while) and, more importantly, widely translated.

I don't think think the solution here is to import existing non-English help content from elsewhere, or to try and encourage a translation drive for the help content, without having an export process in place.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

Seems we can all agree on this, so we're left with #1 and #2 for now.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

So... no interest/ideas/suggestions on those two points (priority pages and manual pages)?

Leucosticte (talkcontribs)

I'm afraid translation isn't my area of expertise. It's been noted that "English is the working language of the Internet", though, and my attitude toward those who seek to administer websites tends to be, learn English or GTFO. But you seem to be on the right track as far as prioritization is concerned; focus on the most-viewed pages first.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

Configuration settings summaries have over 23 thousands translations for the Configure extension; it would be nice to find a way to use them on wiki. I've opened bugzilla:43380 to see what's technically feasible.

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

I'm not familiar with the Translate extension, although I'm looking for an excuse to finally give it a try.  :) Is it possible to promote a set of pages where translation is prioritized? Using a category, for instance.

Trying to translate the whole is pointless and actually counterproductive, but there is a bunch of pages that would really welcome more translations, and a formal request to be translated. It would be useful for the project and for translator to identify those, and if possible get those nice stats telling that Japanese is 100% up to date, Italian is 83%, Arabic is 12% and so on.

There are two types of translatable pages based on motivation:

  1. Promotion: local languages are good to reach out to new users and contributors. Homepage, the hubs, How to contribute, the local Groups (mainly in their respective native languages)...
  2. Support: essential pages for users of MediaWiki and our technical infrastructure. The most basic and required pages of the manual, how bugzilla works how to get developer access...

Maybe it's worth having both translatable categories separate? Maybe some languages make total sense for Promotion but less so for Support (no specific examples, although I can imagine Indic or Latin languages speakers needing those translations more for Promotion than Support, since the average sysadmin / developer of those languages is used to deal with English documentation).

It is clear that the deeper you get into both categories the clearer is the need to manage some English, at least in our current reality. We could probably define a VERY LIMITED set of pages translatable here and now in both categories and then consider the addition of new pages based on actual need.

And I agree with Nemo that those pages need a review in the canonical English version before making big calls for translation. But maybe this is a feature? It forces us to go through identified pages, mark them as translatable progressively and giving more time to translators to deal with new content. For instance, we could start focusing in How to contribute and Help:Formatting, and do a first test with these pages.

This post was posted by Qgil-WMF, but signed as Qgil.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

Yes, it's possible to "categorize" requests for translations, see for instance m:Special:AggregateGroups. It's also possible to define priority languages and even to disable translations in some languages, but this makes little sense on this wiki. In general, people will always translate what they're interested in, not what you'd most like to have translated, therefore if something would use translations it should be translatable, while for focused translation recruitement you can have a specific priority group of translatable pages.

In short, I don't like that "very limited" in all caps, unless you consider (like me) that e.g. 600 configuration settings pages (out of ten thousands content pages) would be a "very limited" set of translatable pages. ;-) Specific pages ready for translation should made translatable immediately: I'll comment on those two on talk.

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

Ok, got your point. I just find useful to have a set of pages identified for volunteer translators without own itch or agenda. "I want to start translating MediaWiki content to Catalan: where should I start? Thank you."

This post was posted by Qgil-WMF, but signed as Qgil.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs) was updated; the Help: and Manual: pages in the top-1000 list should probably be made translatable. Who's willing to help me?

Qgil-WMF (talkcontribs)

Thank you for this useful link!

This post was posted by Qgil-WMF, but signed as Qgil.

This comment was hidden by Elitre (WMF) (history)
Vetonhaxhi (talkcontribs)

DJVU files not displaying after upload ? (talkcontribs)

djvu files not display

Reply to "Translate extension"

How can a change the default formatting of Headers/Layers?

2 (talkcontribs)


i've been trying to change the default style of my headers. in my opinion, the third, fourth, fifth, (...) layer are to "thick". they are way "better to see" than the second layer (== layer 2 ==). where can i change the formatting of the layers??

best regards

Wargo (talkcontribs)


Reply to "How can a change the default formatting of Headers/Layers?"

Please take part in the Flow satisfaction survey

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

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Please fill out this survey, which is administered by a third-party service. It will not require an email or your username. See our privacy statement.

Thanks for your ideas and opinions about Flow!

Nghiem419ddt (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Please take part in the Flow satisfaction survey"