Talk:Edit Review Improvements/New filters for edit review

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Leave your thoughts and ideas here about the New Filters for Edit Review filtering tools and interface. These are now standard on Recent Changes and available as a beta feature on Watchlist. What works well? What could work better?

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The collaboration team is planning to add new features to the current Beta, like filters for namespaces. Please see the list of all planned improvements.

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"Show last 250 changes": Misleading phrase?

2
FleetCommand (talkcontribs)

Hey. First, I gotta say, with "New filters for edit review", my watchlist is sexy, smokin' hot! Love it.

Now, our order of the day is the "Show last 250 changes" drop-down, located below the "Active filters" section. What do I come to understand from this wording and location? I come to understand that Wikipedia would start fetching a list of changes one item at the time, compares each fetched item to the filters, displays them if the filters approve, and continues to do so until either 250 items have been approved by filters or no more item is left.

I have a feeling that this is not what actually happens. (I wish I could orchestrate a test that proves it conclusively but I can't. Logic tells me I have no ground to bother you guys with something for which I have no ironclad proof. Too bad emotions have a say in it too.) I have a feeling that Wikipedia first fetches 250 entries and then filters them. If so, the drop-down box must be moved above the "Active filters" box and instead read: "Fetch last 250 changes". But, please first tell me: Am I right or am I wrong?

197.218.82.5 (talkcontribs)

> . But, please first tell me: Am I right or am I wrong?

Dead wrong. It wouldn't make much sense in many cases and would output in empty results a lot of the times if this were the case. Unless there is a bug, it looks for the filters that match, ordered by latest edits, and limits the results to XXX entries.

Reply to ""Show last 250 changes": Misleading phrase?"

Suggestion: Improve usability by tweaking interface to emphasize frequent uses

1
197.218.82.5 (talkcontribs)

Issue:

The new interface contains a lot of duplication and needless labels that make it feel like a huge change, and in some ways make it worse than the older one.

Concrete problems:

  1. Related filters can be added in any order
  2. Tags have no link to their description page - some tags are random things like "wp"
  3. No easy way to exclude categories of namespaces, e.g. Content namespaces, Discussion namespaces, Project related namespaces (Project: , Help:)
  4. All tags are not created equally, some tags are more useful than others

Proposed solutions:

  1. Group related filters in the active filters area , e.g. user groups "learner", "experienced", "wikidata" instead of something like "learner", "wikidata", experienced". Maybe give them similar symbols to show their grouping.
  2. Some tags have bad descriptions and names. It is a good idea to always add a link to the tag pages encouraging admins to add more useful descriptions.
  3. Extra options in the namespace to select or deselect these
  4. Tags defined by software that detect possible vandalism (e.g. page blanking) should be prominent (recommended) and separate from the clutter.

While registered users may have saved filters, unregistered users shouldn't need to know the secret handshake to find out what content namespaces are (they vary from wiki to wiki) or use cumbersome workarounds to hide all discussions (multiple clicks), if they wish to focus on main namespaces.

It is obvious that the design won't change to take all these suggestions into account, but hopefully something here will be considered and improved.

Reply to "Suggestion: Improve usability by tweaking interface to emphasize frequent uses"

Suggestion: Improve keyboard accessibility

1
197.218.82.5 (talkcontribs)

Issue:

Frequent actions are not easy to do using the keyboard:

  1. Not possible to select a new filter using keyboard - pressing enter when the dropdown is active just deselects it, pressing ESC, removes it too.
  2. Not possible to select all filters, e.g tags to exclude one.

Proposed solutions:

  1. Keyboard shortcuts should be improved, e.g. Ctrl + Enter should generally close the dialog for consistency sake.
  2. Ctrl + A (useful for excluding a tag without clicking one by one)
Reply to "Suggestion: Improve keyboard accessibility"

[Watchlist] Horrible (with some potential)

11
DarwIn (talkcontribs)

Everything is out of place and much more difficult to use and reach, notably the namespace list which passed from the easy dropdown list to a very buggy and user unfriendly radio button list. Much more slower than before as well, and the daunting button "mark everything as read" that I NEVER want to touch, bigger than ever. So horrible that I'm very - but very - happy to find that this is only a beta feature, and the watchlist nightmare I was sent in when somehow this hideous beta feature activated will be finally over.

Some potential with the namespace combinations, and the potential use of colours - but it's so difficult to reach and use that I'll deactivate this beta feature as soon as I get back to my home wiki. Please do not implement it as it is.

(BTW, I used to appreciate ORES, and I'm sad that I'll had to deactivate it because of the way the watchlist was completely wrecked and defaced by the recent "features". It became basically unusable. I'm VERY glad I could deactivate it, even having to say goodbye to ORES)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No worries, we will not implement it as it is. As you have noticed, it is a Beta feature so anyone can try it and tell us what needs to be fixed.

Please tells us what are the bugs you have encountered so we can fix them. What is the issue with the namespace filters, for instance?

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

I agree with DarwIn in the general impression, lots of potential but very problematic layout. The old interface provides instant access to the most common filters (hide bots, minor edits, show this or that namespace).

The new interface, besides being slow to load (and changing the page layout when it finish loading), only allows fast access to remove the active filters (which I will rarely want to do, as I expect the filters to be restored to the default state when I navigate away), not to activate them; inserting a filter requires opening a drop down, and navigating way down a long list with lots of scroll to find the category of filter I want to use; and Namespace filters are hidden beyond two layers of indirection.

The design of "Active filters" has been optimized for the less common case (disabling an active filter) and the interface is good for defining new filters or accessing the ones rarely used, but for it's not good for the main use, which is accessing the most frequent ones - which should be the primary action, and thus the one optimized for.

To match the functionality of the previous interface, the new tool should come with Saved filters pre-configured with the same filters available in the old one (in order to ease migration to the new tool), and the most common saved filters should be exposed flat with one-click buttons, not hidden under a drop down.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Do you know you can bookmark your favorite sets of filters and define one set as default? Also, have you tried to search filters using the search bar and the shortcuts for namespaces (they have a shortcut icon on the right side of the interface - assuming a LTR interface)?

Most common saved filters may vary between users. I don't know if we can track the most popular ones to define some shortcuts.

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)
Do you know you can bookmark your favorite sets of filters and define one set as default?

Yes, but this doesn't solve the problem I described, which makes the new interface worse than the previous one for common usage. Saved filters are still under a drop-down menu, not exposed in plain sight in the default view like they do in the current interface.

Also, have you tried to search filters using the search bar and the shortcuts for namespaces

Yes, and it's way more inconvenient than having them exposed in plain sight in the default view like they do in the current interface (where they're available with just one click, without the need to reach for the keyboard). Also it's less discoverable - I need to recall the name of the filter, instead of recognizing it from the screen.

As I explained, searching solves the problem of defining new filters, but most of the time I will be re-using the same filters again and again, and the interface for bookmarks/saved filters is worse in this interface than the classic interface for available filters.

Most common saved filters may vary between users. I don't know if we can track the most popular ones to define some shortcuts.

That's not really needed. It's enough that you allow each user to put their own preferred bookmarks as buttons exposed by default - probably using an interaction similar to the one to "Set filter as default".

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi @Diego Moya:. Thanks for going into detail; I know it's time consuming. You write that "I will be re-using the same filters again and again." Given that, I would think that the bookmarking/Saved Filters, and the ability to save one filter set as a Default that loads every time, would work well for you. What about that system is a problem for you?

Re. the interface, one thing you might not be factoring in is that a lot of new functionality has been added. This is the same interface (and toolset) as is being used on Recent Changes, for which it was primarily designed. But in time I think users will find a lot of it useful on Watchlist as well. The old interface simply could not accommodate all the new functionality; it wouldn't scale. So a new paradigm was needed.

Given that complexity, we understood that Saved Filters would be important. So I want to understand your issue.

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)
Given that, I would think that the bookmarking/Saved Filters, and the ability to save one filter set as a Default that loads every time, would work well for you. What about that system that is a problem?

Well, as a feature set it more or less solves my case, although it forces me to jump through more hoops. The problem I have is with the interaction techniques used in the beta interface, which make my most frequent interactions much more cumbersome and less desirable than with the old interface. I've already explained my pain points in the previous posts, so I'll put them here in bullet points for reference:

  • The saved filters/bookmarks are hidden behind a drop down control, so they require an extra click and scanning through a vertical list to find the filter I want to use. In the old interface, I can see all the common filters laid out in a horizontal table from the beginning, and I can activate any of them with just one click.
  • The saved filters/bookmarks are hidden behind a drop down, so when the page finishes loading I can't see what filters are available; I need to start an interaction before the list of filters is shown. And there are three places where my desired filter may be hiding (Saved filters if it's a common one, search filters if it's not saved, "advanced" if it's a namespace), so I'm forced to remember which was the proper place to go and look for my common filter. In the old interface, I can instantly see whether my desired filter is there or not, without initiating any interaction.
  • The Default filter is not enough. I want to change between four or five configurations quickly, not just one.
  • The saved filters could work as long as I can force them to pile-up, combining two or more saved filters on the fly to create one configuration, just as I do now. In the beta, loading a saved filter replaces completely whatevdr filters are loaded in the current configuration, they can't be combined.

All these small paper cuts are mentally taxing and add up to an unpleasant experience for my most commonly used feature. This may be acceptable if you activate a filter or two every other day, but is too much grinding when activating a dozen or so of filter combinations in fast succession, several times a day, like I do.

An example of my routine could be, in a single session over the Watchlist: -show only articles, -show articles and their talk pages, -show only Wikipedia pages, -show Wikipedia pages and Wikipedia talk, -show only Wikipedia talk, -show Draft and Draft talk.

(If you couldn't follow all the above, I could record a short video of the routine for you).

But every day I may try them in any order, or create different combinations of these and other filters (at any step in the above routine, I could apply over the current filter: hide bots, hide minor edits, reverse the value of any filter...) I can do all the above in the current interface very fast, only with the mouse, with just one to three clicks per step, never reaching for the keyboard.

Every step might either add the new filter to the previous one - e.g. adding the "associated namespace", or remove the previous filter - first clearing all filters by re-entering the Watchlist.

Re. the interface, one thing you might not be factoring in is that a lot of new functionality has been added. This is the same interface (and toolset) as is being used on Recent Changes, for which it was primarily designed. But in time I think users will find a lot of it useful on Watchlist.

Oh, I don't doubt that, and of course I've been taking into account all the new functions (filters for problematic edits, applying color highlights, etc.). I'm not denying the utility of any of them; as I said above its great that you expand the possibilities of the tool, and I could put many of those features to good use. But the Recent changes doesn't include so many different namespaces, and it shows that the design was created for a simpler case.

Note that I'm not requesting that you remove any of the features in the new tool, so no need to be defensive; just make sure to also support what was possible in the old tool and it is still not included in the beta.

The old interface simply could not accommodate all the new functionality; it wouldn't scale. So a new paradigm was needed.

You're right about such need. But what I don't want in any way is that you take away the features and interactions that I use every day, dozens of times in a row, or that you make them slower and more cumbersome. A tool doing that could never be an improvement, no matter how many new features it provides.

More so when I HAVE SUGGESTED A POSSIBLE ADDITION THAT WOULD SUPPORT MY USE CASE IN THE NEW PARADIGM, and which is actually using the FEATURES THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY DEVELOPED, just adding a few new interactions to them. Just allow users to pin any filter to the screen, adding it to a quick launch pane ("Fast filters"?), where it can be activated with one click. This will go miles to help us, power users, to tweak the interface to our real needs. User-defined quick launchers are a true and tested classic interaction technique for adding flexibility to a tool.

After thinking about the problem a bit more, it wouldn't be enough to be able to pin the saved filters; I'd also need to pin any entry in the drop down list of filters and convert them into always-visible buttons. Pressing a pinned button should launch exactly the same command as selecting it from the drop down list; the fast filter would just remove the need to search for it in the drop downs every single time.

Ysogo (talkcontribs)

I'm even stronger: Horrible with no potential. Give us back the old layout of the watchlist!

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Ysogo:, you can get back the old Watchlist UX by just opting out of the New Filters for Edit Review beta on the Preferences>Beta page.

Ysogo (talkcontribs)

@JMatazzoni (WMF): I'm "experencied" enough to know how to switch on/off the beta functions. My feedback was intended to prevent that future investment on the evolution of the UI would be diverted only to this version. In my opinion it has totally missed a target audience, it is designed for newbies but is offering alternatives that requires long experience to be familiar with. Whatever before could be done in few clicks always having all info in front of you it is now nested in different places that you need to navigate loosing the birdeye view, I don'y think, as stated in the feature page, that this could not be accomodated into the old interface: it just required to change few radio-button into combo-boxes and adding a couple of criteria. End of the story: my suggestion is that rather than spending any other hour to solve issues of this new UX, it is better you spend them to add fetaures on the tradiitonal one.

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for taking the time to explain your issues and for suggesting improvements @Diego Moya:. I'm going to ping designer @Pginer-WMF: to see if he has thoughts on these questions.

Reply to "[Watchlist] Horrible (with some potential)"
Infovarius (talkcontribs)

Even changing to 1000 recent changes for watchlist in preferences now I can't see more than 500.

Reply to "<501 changes"

Needs up to 10 seconds -> is demotivating

11
Summary by Trizek (WMF)

A patch has been created to reduce loading time: T176250 - Deployment soon.

To reduce the loading time to get most recent changes on RecentChanges, click on "View newest changes" (or equivalent wording) link instead of reloading the whole page:

Sargoth (talkcontribs)

See topic. I want a fast Special:Watchlist. Active in deWP, please roll back. No answers needed, its just a feedback. Thanks.

Stryn (talkcontribs)

Me too. Go to de:Spezial:Einstellungen#mw-prefsection-betafeatures and deselect the "Neue Filter zur Bearbeitungsüberprüfung".

Sargoth (talkcontribs)

This was so helpful, user:stryn (can't link you). You will always have a place in my heart :)

Samwalton9 (talkcontribs)

Agreed. I just turned ORES off because of how slow it made my Watchlist.

DVdm (talkcontribs)

Indeed. Very bad idea, this. Looks fancy, but it takes too much space, is very slow, and essentially useless. Please don't force this upon us. Thanks. ~~~~

מלא כל הארץ כבודי (talkcontribs)

terribly slow (almost 20 seconds).

User:DVdm, as mentioned above, you can delete the new features through your personal preferences, under watchlist section.

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry you're having problems. You can turn off the beta on the beta Preferences page, under New Filters for Edit Review.

Did you really see a 20 second delay on he.wiki? That is not right and will be fixed. If you don't mind telling me, how many pages are on your Watchlist (not that it should matter).

מלא כל הארץ כבודי (talkcontribs)

17 seconds delay (compared to 1.5 after turning off the updates) in the recent changes page. Around 1,400 pages are in my watchlist, showing max (1,000 last changes in 30 last days; same for RC). Almost all scripts are in halt.

Minihaa (talkcontribs)

I agree, I really find the speed an issue. Would it be possible to turn on the filter only when it is needed (2 click solution)? By default, the previous watchlist could be loaded.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This seems to be related to an issue with a script or a gadget conflicting with the Watchlist. Can you check if that's the case?

  1. is your browser up to date? If yes, what is your configuration?
  2. can you test if there is a conflict with anything else, by using the safemode as described on this page? "Almost all scripts are in halt": which ones are active then?

Thanks!

Minihaa (talkcontribs)

I am using chromium, indeed the newest version. What specific configuration are you requesting? I tried to open https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist&safemode=1 (as I thought it would be described on the page), but it does not work. Regards and thanks for your work on it.

Reply to "Needs up to 10 seconds -> is demotivating"
Farang Rak Tham (talkcontribs)

How do I filter out the bot edits?

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Click in the search bar to open the main filter panel, then scroll down to the "Automated contributions" filter group. Select the "Human (not bot)" filter. That will exclude bot edits.

Aschroet (talkcontribs)

And how i can exclude changes in Wikidata?

Farang Rak Tham (talkcontribs)

Thank you, Template:Structured DiscussionsMention

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi @Aschroet:. Go to the "Type of Change" filter group and select the types of change you DO want to see. Leave Wikidata unchecked.

There's a good Help page covering basic filtering functions you might want to check out. Here's the section about Including and Excluding. Cheers!

Aschroet (talkcontribs)

Thank you @JMatazzoni (WMF), interestingly i had all the item below "Type of Change" unselected and i got everything in my watchlist. Is that maybe a bug?

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Aschroet: asks: "I had all the items below "Type of Change" unselected and i got everything in my watchlist. Is that maybe a bug?" 

Thanks for asking. The answer is no, that's correct. As it says on the Filtering help page under Understanding Groups, "When no filters in a group are selected, all filters in that group are active." And everything is included.

That sounds confusing when you say it, but you are probably very familiar with this type of behavior from shopping sites that use filtering. E.g., on Amazon, if I search for "men's shoes," I get a results page with many filter groups at left—for size, color, brand, style, price range, etc. As long as I don't make any selections, I see all possible results. But as soon as I pick an option within any filter group—if I select gray in the color group, for example—then I exclude all colors except gray. Meaning that when no filters in the color group are selected, everything in that group is in effect active. It's the same with the new Watchlist filters.

Reply to "How do I filter out the bot edits?"

Too slow to load

12
Summary by Trizek (WMF)

A patch has been created to reduce loading time: T176250 - Deployment soon.

To reduce the loading time to get most recent changes on RecentChanges, click on "View newest changes" (or equivalent wording) link instead of reloading the whole page:

Stryn (talkcontribs)

Why it can't load the content immediately as the normal recent changes / watchlist? Is it ever going to load immediately? I wrote at https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kahvihuone_(tekniikka)#Improvements_coming_soon_to_Recent_Changes that I won't use the feature on the Finnish Wikipedia because it takes too much time to wait before the content is loaded.

Ahecht (talkcontribs)

I agree, by the time the old watchlist would've loaded, on the new watchlist I'm still stuck staring at three dots (and this is on the default configuration). There isn't any functionality improvement other than the saved filters feature (all the other options were available before, at least on enWiki), and I don't see why that feature requires that the page take so much longer to load. I am running a browser inside a VM for various reasons that I won't get into, so I'm sure my javascript processing is slower than some people's, but the old watchlist was perfectly usable and responsive.

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry you're seeing problems with the beta on Watchlist. On which wiki did you see the long load times? And how long would you estimate?

Ahecht (talkcontribs)

Total loading time is approximately 10 seconds until I see the list of pages in my watchlist, 6 of which is staring at the three dots after the header has loaded. When I disable the new watchlist in my preferences, the old version takes approximately 4 seconds to load.

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for these reports. The team is prioritizing a number of tasks that should speed things up:

Please keep an eye on these and let us know if they help. 

Sadads (talkcontribs)

I am also getting quite slow loading times as I load filters on enwiki: so much so, that I sometimes flip to other tabs. I really like the content post filter, but its just too slow.

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Here's a tip that can help reduce load times on Recent Changes: You don't need to reload the whole page every time you want to see new results. Right above the main results area, you should see a bold link for "View newest changes" (if you don't see it, there probably are no new results available yet). Clicking this will add any new changes that have occurred since the last time you loaded the page (or clicked the link). It will load ONLY those new changes, and avoid a bunch of page overhead (Javascript, etc.) that also loads when you click to reload the browser.

At the moment "View newest" is not available on Watchlist, but we are adding it (here's the task). We're also looking for a way to reload the page without all he overhead, but that will take some experimentation.

Let me know if this tip helps.

Ahecht (talkcontribs)

Clicking the "view newest changes" link takes longer to update than reloading the old watchlist page did.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

All, how do you usually refresh the page to get the newest edits? Do you refresh the page (F5)? Have you noticed before the "View newest changes" link Joe mentions? Thanks.

Stryn (talkcontribs)

Well, I usually open the recent changes page, check something there, then close it, and later open the page again. I rarely left the page open, and when I do, I refresh the page (ctrl+r or F5, it's the same) normally. So now I don't need to refresh the page, as there is the live updates feature.

I always use many tabs on browser, so that's why I have used to close them when I don't need them, and when I need them again, I'll open them again.

Sadads (talkcontribs)

I would think that most of my behaviour is similar to @Stryn as well: I rarely leave a tab idefinitely open and refresh: rather I open the watchlist in a new tab, or go to it by clicking on a link. Also, the default behaviour when clicking on links in the watchlist, is to navigate to that page (instead of opening a new tab), so most folks are going to leave the page.

Sänger (talkcontribs)

I usually open links in the same tab as the Beo (watchlist), and click on Beo on the top again to go back there. If I was in another tab an came back to the Beo, I'll hit F5. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 16:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Reply to "Too slow to load"
JAn Dudík (talkcontribs)

I was used to reaload watchlist by clicking to button [Show] in the last line of table above watchlist.

Now this button is missing and for reload i must click to [show last XXX edits] and then [YYY]. So one more click needed and number of displayed changes change.

And second - is there any user-friendly way (preferences, gadget etc.) how to permanently disable new filters and use old page? (except disabling javascript)

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Jan

See new changes on the watchlist is under development. You can check T171235 for more information.

The new filters on the Watchlist are a Beta feature. You just have to go to your Beta fratures preferences and unselect "New filters for edit review".

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi @JAn Dudík:. A replacement for that button is being added. It will be called the "View newest changes" link. Clicking it will reload the page more quickly than hitting reload, since it loads ONLY changes that have occurred since the last load and skips lots of page overhead (like Javascript, etc.). You can track the progress of this addition in this ticket.

Reply to "Missing feature(s)"
Gżdacz (talkcontribs)

How can I save an empty set of filters: one in which there are no filters (all edits visible) and make it my default?

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Gżdacz

Interesting case. It is not possible at the moment to clear all filters and save them. A solution is to select both Unregistered and Registered edits: this combination will show you all edits as well, and can be saved (and set as default).

JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You should be able to save an empty filter set soon. It was fixed in this ticket. and will appear on Wikipedias by the end of the week. Thanks for your input!

Reply to "Saving empty filter"