Topic on Talk:VisualEditor

(Originally posted on other page and moved to this page.) @PPelberg (WMF), hello, AHollender (WMF) pointed me to your attention on this subject.

Could we remove “website” param from the cite-web template auto-generate feature on mobile visual editor? Maybe it is not working best when the auto-generating cite-web template is picking up “website” param. It picks up both the root part of the url, and as the publisher or the parent directory of the webpage displayed, but for me the choice is not predictable.

In jawp, people find it annoying when I add/did not empty the “website” param, especially when I apply mobile VE and my edits add any root address of the webpage; example a) is accepted as: website= Wikimedia; example b) is not appreciated/requested to omit values if website=www.wikimedia.org.

I support that “website” param is useful when it indicates that the website publisher and the actual child webpage producer/director have meaningful relationship, like a film festival committee as a 3rd-party organizer commissioned by a local government.

May I remind you that I am a strong supporter of mobile visual editor and can’t wait to see auto-generating function fir web citing to Desktop. But at the moment, I don’t have any page to point editors to when they are unhappy with “website” parameters.

Timid resolution would be to request that “website” param will be an option that I will add, but the system does not autofill value. Do you think it will be agreeable for single-byte language wikis?

@Mvolz (WMF), this sounds like a Citoid question.

It might be possible to solve it merely by changing the TemplateData at the local wiki. Parameters are only added if they're marked as "suggested" or "required" by that community.

Yup, it's a citoid question. If you would like to no longer add the website parameter, that would be something you would discuss with other community members on the Cite web template. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1) and reach a community decision about. If the community decides they no longer want it added automatically on Cite web, then it can be removed in the template data of the Template here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_web#TemplateData

It's true that often the website param is effectively "useless" and just the root URL, when we do not have a specific Zotero translator for the website. However, sometimes it isn't, so never adding it isn't a great solution. And in formal citation styles i.e. APA, MLA this parameter is required, no matter how useless it may be. But again, it's a community decision :).

It is possible to improve the data quality of this parameter in Zotero as well, but a better universal website translator is somewhat stalled there. Hopefully it will eventually be merged though! https://github.com/zotero/translators/pull/1897

@Mvolz (WMF), thank you for crystal clear explanation and mapping the possibilities and solution threshold. As this issue was pointed to me on jawp, I will go back and see if it would be a major issue to target among jawp editors in line with your advise, especially as I myself need to read what Citoid is. I will catch up with what Zetero is as well, before reaching out to see how jawp editors appreciate website parameter. As we are using double byte writing system, a separate issue but some expects to see either website or publisher be autogenerated in double byte/Japanese writing system, noting it a nonsense to output with roman/single byte characters; a native editor scripts website params manually for native readers using double bytes.

@Whatamidoing (WMF), thank you to pointing where my inquery belongs, and while not the main topic here, but the background of the issue above makes me doubt if understanding Citoid / formal citation ie APA, MLA, comprehended/digested extensively on jawp, partly due to, in general, the act/concept of citing itself could be the best asset any Japanese high school or university grads learn through wikipedia as a reader/editor. Even making footnotes nor listing sources nor references in APA/MLA style were, and still are, the skill you lack as a college graduate if you are not a science or philosophy major.

That said, it is why I am very looking forward to new advanced mobile editing features. As much as you enjoy “freeriding” the citation feature (big “ icon), you will see the _magic_ of autocreate button that only requires to input url. Then, suddenly it challenges you; it says you can create citation from scratch. Take up the challenge, and you come to see there are empty fields/params you might need to fill. I find it a very effective education/learning process which advances your skill as an editor. How I wish I had it when my beaks were very yellow!

Citoid is the magic auto-creator, and Zotero is one of its servants.

On the single-byte/double-byte question, when you put in a URL, Zotero is often smart enough to find some of the answers in the HTML code at that URL, but it never translates anything.

So as I understand it, if you give the magic citoid button the url https://www.example.com, the citoid service sends Zotero to look at the page. Zotero can find the code <title>Example Domain</title> in the HTML for that page, but it can't do much more than that.