2017 wikitext editor/Feedback

About this board

Post your feedback about using the first iteration of the 2017 wikitext editor as a Beta Feature. While you can disable it by unchecking the New wikitext mode checkbox in your Preferences (Beta tab), the Contributors team welcomes your feedback and ideas, especially on user interface decisions and the priorities for adding new features. All comments are read, in any language, but personal replies are not guaranteed: the team will try and go through reports here at least once a week. Need more attention? Report directly in Phabricator. You can learn how to structure well your submission.

If you are reporting a problem directly on this page, please include your web browser, computer operating system, and wiki skin (usually Vector, sometimes Monobook). Also, while editing to reproduce a problem, please try to append &safemode=1 at the end of the URL; if the problem disappears, you are using a gadget or script that interferes with the editor.

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Preview button

15
Summary last edited by Aron Manning 20:04, 3 June 2019 3 years ago

From [en:WP:KB]: on Windows, Chrome hold Alt+ Shift or Alt+Control+ Shift or Alt, then press p for preview, or v for changes (diff). The modifier key can be different per browser. Note: neither of these works for me in Visual Editor on Chrome, but it's worth a try. - Aron

From the Phab [Task T153306]: Alt+ Shift + p or + v will take you to preview/diff. - Aron

On Mac, it's Control+ Option+p and Ctrl+ Option+v for preview and diff. - Whatamidoing

Lesendes Okapi (talkcontribs)

Please include a "preview" button next to the "save changes" ("Änderungen veröffentlichen")-button! It's nice that the program kindly reminds me to do so after I hit the save-button and for newbies, which would probably not use the preview-button at all it is fine, but as a user who is used to the old editor I got panic as it looked like I had only the option to save the changes without a previev :) --~~~~

Erentar2002 (talkcontribs)

Yeah, a preview button before the "save changes" button would be nice. I would really like not to have to click save changes to preview my changes

Paucabot (talkcontribs)

I agree.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I have found it worthwhile to learn the Keyboard shortcuts for this command. They are the same ones that you use in the older wikitext editors.


Lesendes Okapi (talkcontribs)

Maybe I am blind but I can't find a shortcut for preview in the overview you linked above :(

Can you write it here?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Oh, my fault! You need the main list at m:Help:Keyboard shortcuts, not the extra handful added to VisualEditor.

On my Mac, it's Control+ Option+p and Ctrl+ Option+v for preview and diff. The meta keys are different in Windows (and sometimes by web browser).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Aron Manning, you should feel free to post your own content in your own message.  :-)

For everyone else, Aron has added the Windows keyboard shortcuts:

From the Phab Task T153306: Alt+ Shift+ p or + v will take you to preview/diff.

From WP:KB: on Win, Chrome hold Altor Alt+ Shiftor Alt+Control+ Shift, then press pfor preview, or vfor changes (diff). Note: neither of these works for me in Visual Editor. - Aron


Aron Manning (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF)

 :-) Did not intend to ruin your comment. I hardly noticed your updated link down here... Can I suggest you to update the link in your first comment, and copy the shortcuts there? Feel free to copy the chrome shortcuts too. It would have been helpful to me, thus I believe it will be helpful to others. Thanks.

Aron Manning (talkcontribs)

Ping to move discussion to top. More important than testing copy-paste.

Saper (talkcontribs)

This was reported on plwiki technical noticeboard, too: https://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Kawiarenka/Kwestie_techniczne&oldid=57207917#Powr%C3%B3t_do_edytowania_(Priority_low)

The editing flow is very confusing to me, and shortcuts are not a solution to the problem.

I personally prefer edit -> preview -> edit -> preview -> edit -> preview -> submit flow, and the submit button should be not the first one to reach. Also the preview should be smoothly integrated in the editing flow and not be an extra thing that pops up with an animation. This way no user will feel like using it.

For normal editing I am pretty happy with old wiki editor and the live preview feature (it has its issues but it works very snappy).

This feature forces me to do an "edit -> submit -> maybe preview -> have a look -> go back -> edit flow" which is cumbersome and unnatural.

Ivanics (talkcontribs)

Yes, the best flow would be: edit -> preview -> submit (or preview again)

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

I also prefer edit -> preview -> edit -> preview -> edit -> preview -> submit, and I preferred it much more strongly as an uncertain new editor; the "Preview" button was very reassuring. I suspect I'd never have hit "submit" without that reassurance. Keyboard shortcuts are nice, but they are not the first interface the new user sees. Honestly even a lot of experienced editors don't know they exit (I know they exist, but they don't work for me, not sure why).

Add apparently they are deprecated? "Usage of access keys is currently discouraged in the online contents and applications". Because they conflict with screenreaders. This is daft. Wikipedia is, according to several vision-impaired people, pretty much inaccessible with most screenreaders, because instead of having a background tone or change in voice timbre for links, most screenreaders read the link targets aloud. Most WP articles have so many wikilinks that listening to them on such a system is insanely annoying. Even tech-savvy blind people often just do without rather than bother with it. WP needs an interface for vision-impaired users, and a related one for users with low or no literacy, especially as ownership of net-enabled phones by illiterate people increases.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

It looks like that was added in 2010 by Dodoïste. Looking at the whole section, it says that WCAG "abandoned" them and ATAG required them, and the editor believed that Wikipedia should comply with both. However, I'm not sure that's a complete description of WCAG back then; in particular, WCAG 2 was discouraging "character key shortcuts", which do not use any modifier keys. (The difference is whether you type Control+f or just f. If it's just f, then it's easy to accidentally trigger it.)

The 2010 summary looks out of date to me, since the current rules say that any HTML element may have an access key (which must use at least one modifier key, and normally follows the conventional modifier keys for that platform).

Reply to "Preview button"

Problems with copypasting and clipboard from the latest update

8
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Solidest (talkcontribs)

Having the problems with the clipboard and some difficulties with copy-paste in code mode, which are started somewhere around 1,5 weeks ago.

  • The clipboard does not work between browser tabs. It is as if the pages have their own built-in clipboard
  • Copying text into it now happens by any text highlighting. In doing so, copied lines often cut off the first or last character in the line.
  • The copying works in some random way, each time chunks of random text are copied from the current cursor position. Even if I did not highlight text or press Ctrl+C
  • Ctrl+X does not work as it should, but deletes the text completely and copies all subsequent text

All this only happens in the code editor when "New wikitext mode" is enabled. I've tried disabling all scripts and resetting wikipedia settings - it doesn't help. Problems appear for me in both in ruwiki and enwiki where I work and also both in Firefox and Chrome. There are no such problems in the standard code editor or any other sites.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Do you have the colorful CodeMirror syntax highlighting turned on?

Solidest (talkcontribs)

Yep

Solidest (talkcontribs)

But the bug occurs even when markup is switched off. Although sometimes it does not appear immediately, but only after some work with the page code (mostly after several iterations of ctrl+x and ctrl+c). And then literally the only proper way to make a cut-paste work is by selecting and dragging text with the cursor to the needed space... This makes the visual editor simply unusable.

Chelsdog (talkcontribs)

I'm facing the same issue. Have you figured out the solution?

Solidest (talkcontribs)

Nope. Only keep finding even stranger cases of occurrence. For example if you open a new page - press edit code - select all, cut and paste to the same page - then all code will be written in one line without line breaks, and sometimes the highlighting continues to act as with a "shadow" of the original version of the page, selecting empty line formatting behind the current text. I think it's a bug within the visual editor, which started at the end of July.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

What's your operating system (Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.)?

Do you use the middle mouse button for copying and pasting? (See Topic:Wzjvn2kn8sxsltw6.)

Do you have problems with text getting "scrambled"? For example, you're typing at the end of a sentence, but the letters are added to the middle?

Solidest (talkcontribs)

Windows.

Not using middle mouse.

No, there are no problems with normal typing as far as I remember, only copying and pasting.

Reply to "Problems with copypasting and clipboard from the latest update"

Links for deleted revisions and logs are unusable

2
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Huñvreüs (talkcontribs)

Hello,

As a sysop, when I try to re-create a previously deleted page using the 2017 editor, the following text is displayed: View or undelete one deleted edit? (view logs for this page | view abuse log), but it is disabled, I cannot click on any of the links. This issue does not arise when I use the classic editor.

Nick Moyes (talkcontribs)

Yes, I observe this, too. I want to view (as an admin) someones deleted page, I click that redlink and it tries to create a new page in Visual Editor, and even if I clear the templated message, the 'view/undelete' link does not function. I have to select 'Create Source' before the view/undelete link is functions.

Reply to "Links for deleted revisions and logs are unusable"

Not working with flood

7
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Ferien (talkcontribs)

On simplewiki, my home wiki, I often make lots of minor changes in a short amount of time and when I do so, I use flood, where the changes I make are hidden from recent changes through a "flooder" user right. Edits made when I have flood on are marked as bot edits, but in 2017 wikitext editor, the edits still appear in recent changes for some reason, and I'm not sure why.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

That's strange. Does the same thing happen with edits you make in the visual editor?

Ferien (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure, I haven't tried yet. I will test that when I can.

Ferien (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF) I have just tested it in visual editor. Yes, edits made in visual editor aren't marked as bot edits either

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Quiddity (WMF), do you still have flood rights somewhere? Could you try to reproduce this problem in VE for me?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Confirmed (with 'bot' usergroup, but functionally the same) on officewiki.

I made an edit with the 2010-editor and it was correctly marked as 'b' in RecentChanges. I made another edit with VE and it wasn't.

Searching phab, it appears this is already filed as phab:T284855.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks, Quiddity. From the looks of the Phab tasks, the answer is buried somewhere in the interaction between the 2017WTE and the API. Unfortunately, my best guess is "won't be fixed any time soon".

Reply to "Not working with flood"

Can't switch to visual editor

8
Beland (talkcontribs)

On English Wikipedia, after enabling this beta feature, I tried editing a whole article, and section of an article, user page, and talk page. The option to switch to visual editing was greyed out and in all cases I could not click on it.


BTW, is this project dead, or is this still planning on being deployed some day?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Deployment (default-off) could have happened a couple of years ago. I don't know when it will happen. Hopefully phab:T202921 will happen first.

I can't reproduce this problem. The visual editor is disabled on talk pages, so that's expected. But you should be able to switch in articles and on your user page. Is this still a problem for you? Is it a problem on this wiki? You can use User:Whatamidoing (WMF)/Sandbox to test it here.

Beland (talkcontribs)

The switching to visual editing is working for me at User:Whatamidoing (WMF)/Sandbox but not at e.g. w:Earth. I tried turning off all the other beta features, and returning to the Vector 2010 skin, but those didn't make a difference. Perhaps it is one of the non-default gadgets I have enabled in my preferences?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Beland (talkcontribs)

I'm getting some very strange behavior. I went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth?veaction=edit&safemode=1 and was able to switch between. I then went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth and tried disabling non-default gadgets a few at a time to figure out which was the problem, to no effect. Then I tried disabling all the default gadgets, and even after re-enabling those, I can't get the new wikitext editor at all from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth nor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth?safemode=1 even though the beta feature is enabled in my preferences and I've shift+reloaded. And I don't see any way to get to the visual editor, either. Perhaps this is because I normally don't use the visual editor?

I can still get the beta editor and switch back and forth if I go directly to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth?veaction=edit&safemode=1

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Beland (talkcontribs)

Just tried that; symptoms are the same. -- Beland (talk) 03:08, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Just a note to say that I haven't forgotten you. I'm just not sure what the problem is. If it works in safemode, then it's some sort of gadget or user script. Help:Locating broken scripts or a request for help at w:en:WP:VPT might be your best bets.

Reply to "Can't switch to visual editor"

Does not show "Show preview" and "Show changes" features

3
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Excellenc1 (talkcontribs)

The only way to preview an article after source editing is by switching to visual editor, which is a bit inconvenient.

Paper9oll (talkcontribs)

It does but hidden away (kind of) in the Publish changes button which upon clicking brings up a modal which is where the "Show preview" and "Show changes" resides in. This "issue" was already raised before couple of times by various editors including me as well but so far no solution has been pushed out yet. Alternatively, for now, you can use "Alt + Shift + P" for preview and "Alt + Shift + V" for show changes.

204.195.34.9 (talkcontribs)

While having a easier working text box and better tools is nice, it's not worth having no solid preview/changes tab. The shortcuts work but not completely. Unlike before when you could view your preview while editing, it now takes you to a separate page where you can't edit, pretty annoying. Will be sticking with the old wikitext.

Reply to "Does not show "Show preview" and "Show changes" features"

Is it possible to receive edittools in 2017 wikitext editor?

5
Bicolino34 (talkcontribs)

I'm editing Wiktionary and I often need to quickly add a template, and it's much faster to do through the editools menu. Unfortunately, it's only available in wikitext editor 2010. Is it possible to receive it in 2017 editor?

FæɹHaad (talkcontribs)

Do you mean "the editing toolbar" of 2010 wikitext editor?

"Is it possible to receive it in 2017 editor?"

NO, 2017 wikitext editor is not enabled by default, so you can continue to use the 2010 wikitext editor.

FæɹHaad (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

phab:T96710 suggests being able to choose templates from a menu. The idea is that each wiki could make a short list of the most popular templates, and for anything else, you could search for them. Does that sound like something that would meet your goal?

It could probably be written as a VisualEditor/Gadgets, but I don't think anyone has ever tried it.

Bicolino34 (talkcontribs)

Thanks, that's exactly what I need.

Reply to "Is it possible to receive edittools in 2017 wikitext editor?"
Sammi Brie (talkcontribs)

I use a number of helpful user scripts on enwiki, such as Wikipedia:User:Frietjes/findargdups and the date formatting scripts by Ohconfucius. However, these do not appear in the 2017 wikitext editor, nor is it possible to force them to edit the text. What facility can be provided to allow these useful scripts used by power users to work? I'm slowly converting from wikEd as its functionality is degrading over time, but aside from what wikEd brings to the table, even the basic old wikitext editor has some important linkages to features I use often, so I was wondering if it's possible for them to be adapted to work in a 2017 editor environment.

Alsee (talkcontribs)

As I understand it, existing user scripts will not work in 2017 editor without significant modification. You would either have to ask the original author to make a new version, or find some other volunteer willing to do it. However I wouldn't expect much luck with that....

The 2017 editor has been a Zombie project for the last 5 years. It was rejected by EnWiki. The Foundation seriously should have either (a) engaged the community seeking a constructive mutual-path forward, or (b) formally terminate the project and removed it from the beta-test options.

Phatom87 (talkcontribs)

Would helpful if the needed changes were documented somewhere? Simply breaking all existing scripts without a migration path is going to be jarring for many users. phatom87 (talk) 14:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Reply to "User scripts"

not working category nor other special marks

5
Höyhens (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Stryn, could you take a look at this article?

Stryn (talkcontribs)

Yeah, already solved. Höyhens used some wrong mark, not the right colon mark.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks, I appreciate the update. Wikitext isn't the easiest thing, unfortunately.

Höyhens (talkcontribs)

I totally agree.

Reply to "not working category nor other special marks"

Previewing is annoying and sometimes doesn't work properly

8
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Nixinova (talkcontribs)

In order to preview a page with the new editor, you have to first click the publish button, then wait for the summary box to appear, then click preview -- extremely annoying when I want to iterate a specific change. At least on mobile it shows the preview by default.

Additionally, templates like Wikipedia:Template:Graph:Chart just straight up don't work, and don't work on mobile either. I had to disable this just to edit pages like Wikipedia:Opinion polling for the next New Zealand general election.

What I would primarily like to see is a preview button directly next to the publish button. Figuring out a way to get the graph template appearing would be a bonus as well.

Tol (talkcontribs)

I agree; preview should not be under publish (VisualEditor too). Another annoying effect of this is that one cannot preview if no changes have been made (the publish button is disabled until a change has been made).

Nixinova (talkcontribs)

The trick I use to preview a null edit on mobile is just to add a space and remove a space, preview button appears.

Rannios (talkcontribs)

Hello, I came on this page to report this very problem: preview is frustrating when several clicks are necessary.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Rusalkii (talkcontribs)

My workflow often involves scrolling rapidly between preview and wikitext, so being unable to have both on the same page is frustrating even if I can rapidly open the preview using a shortcut.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Beland (talkcontribs)

I agree; I disabled this beta feature because it appeared there was no way to preview changes. After reading this discussion I learned that there is, but it's counterintuitively after clicking "Publish" and there are too many steps to do so. Some other features have preview-as-you-type, which is nice, but one way or another it would be nice to sort of make the preview step unavoidable, since I've sometimes regretted not previewing, but have not really been bothered by checking my work to find no mistakes.

Reply to "Previewing is annoying and sometimes doesn't work properly"