2017 wikitext editor/Feedback

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Post your feedback about using the first iteration of the 2017 wikitext editor as a Beta Feature.

If you are reporting a problem directly on this page, please include your web browser, computer operating system, and wiki skin (usually Vector, sometimes Monobook). Also, while editing to reproduce a problem, please try to append &safemode=1 at the end of the URL; if the problem disappears, you are using a gadget or script that interferes with the editor.

The Editing team welcomes your feedback and ideas, especially on user interface decisions and the priorities for adding new features. All comments are read, in any language, but personal replies are not guaranteed.

We are trying to keep the page tidy by providing links to relevant tasks while closing threads. You can help by adding {{tracked|T######}}. By all means, feel free to re-open a thread if you need to!

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Bencemac (talkcontribs)

Hi!

Currently with the new wikitext editor I cannot use the tools and gadgets. As you can see, there are some differences between the new and the old editor. The biggest problem is that the edit-tools (which usually are on the top and the bottom of the page) are missing. Is there any way to use them in the new editor? Best regards!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Are you missing the MediaWiki:Edittools (a sort of special-character inserter)?

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

Not exactly, but this is a missing too. I posted this topic about the editing gadgets which are missing if I use the new wikitext editor. On huWiki there are a lot of useful gadgets which don't have English pairs therefore I cannot link them. But RefToolbar and WikEd has. I think the RefToolbar's "advanced" and "help" tab is very useful for new and experienced editors. Could you add these tabs?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Gadgets have to be converted; VisualEditor/Gadgets and subpages have information about that process.

I think that everything in the "Advanced" tab except nowiki tags and perhaps redirects is available already in the existing toolbar. Which things are you having trouble finding?

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

From the "advanced" tab only these two functions are missing. I will be honest: mostly I'm missing the "help" tab. It has a "references" minor-tab, which is a huge help. If I don't know the exact end of a reference (and I use the old editor) I just click on it and I copy the sample. In summary: could you add the nowiki tag and redirect functions (which would be useful for everybody) and think a little bit about the help tab?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think that I need a screenshot for the help content. The English version doesn't contain anything about references.

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

And one more thing. If I click on the “page option” -> “options”, I see five sections. Categories, page settings, advanced settings and languages are grey and I cannot click on them. They are grey in page options too. Are they new functions and they are under developing currently?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

These work in VisualEditor's visual mode, but they're still working on them for the wikitext mode. I think it'll be a while yet.

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

You are right. After I posted this message I've noticed.

Reply to "Missing tools"
Sadads (talkcontribs)

Hey, found this additional text added to a talk page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Authority_control&diff=775948950&oldid=775948927] I am on a Chromebook in the Vector skin.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Just checking: did you manually type all of that in the subject field?

Sadads (talkcontribs)

No, it just showed up upon the save, I typed "Add SNAC ID" into the section header box for creating the section, but I didn't type the rest (which was auto-generated -- I think in part for the edit summary). Cheers. It seems like it has to do with the "create new section" workflow.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

That's what I assumed, but I wanted to make sure. (I'm sure I'm not the only editor who has hand-typed those edit summaries to make it match the automated version.  :-)

Dvorapa (talkcontribs)

Was it typed actually or just copyied from elsewhere?

Reply to "Error in Section header"
Some Gadget Geek (talkcontribs)

Hello everyone,

I have been using this new feature on Wikipedia's VE using the latest Google Chrome browser, but the cursor keeps jumping to the beginning of the paragraph when I try to type in the middle of it. This alone is already very irritating, and I don't want to look to see if anyone already brought this up. Is someone looking into this?

Cheers,

SGG

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi there, I don't think I've seen this reported yet - can you share an example of page where this happens for you? Does it happen anywhere in the page? Does it happen from another browser or while you're logged out (maybe try incognito mode)? Thanks!

Some Gadget Geek (talkcontribs)

Well apparently this does not happen on Internet Explorer. But what happens on Chrome is, when I click in the middle of a paragraph (after a word) to insert text, and begin typing, the text appears at the beginning of the paragraph. It is most apparent when I edit large bodies of text.

Example:

This is the original text:

"This is a sentence. This is another sentence."

This is what I want to change it to:

"This is a sentence. This is yet another sentence."

All I need to do is add the word "yet" after "is", but after placing the cursor after "is", "yet" appears at the beginning instead as follows:

"yet This is a sentence. This is another sentence."

Hope you get what I mean.

Regards, SGG

IKhitron (talkcontribs)

It's about a 100th time I wish Chrome should be removed from Wiki support at all.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

We had a problem with a cursor jumping around when the shift key was pressed. It's described at phab:T156228. Do you think that might be what's happening to you?

Some Gadget Geek (talkcontribs)

Nay, it happens regardless of whether I press shift or not.

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Nothing happened when I tested with the current version of Chrome (on Mac). My questions above still apply. Also, while VEditing to test, you could append &safemode=1 at the end of the URL - if cursor doesn't jump anymore, then it's a gadget or script you have that's interfering.

Some Gadget Geek (talkcontribs)

I added &safemode=1 to the URL and the problem was fixed. Now, where and how do I find out what gadget is interfering?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Someday, Elitre should remind me to write up a standard help page on how to do this.

Here's the general system:

  • You have some user scripts enabled at some wikis.
  • You probably have some gadgets enabled in Special:Preferences at some wikis.

Gadgets are just user scripts that are easy to enable. But, as a rule of thumb, gadgets tend to be better written and better maintained than user scripts (also, there are wikis that don't offer any gadgets), so we begin with the assumption that the problem is in your user scripts. I'm also assuming that you've not changed any of your scripts recently, as you probably wouldn't be asking if it worked fine, you made a change, and it broke immediately afterwards. ;-)

So step #1 is "Find your user scripts". Here are your options, assuming that you're experiencing this problem at the English Wikipedia.

(There are also matching CSS files, if you have weird display issues, but that doesn't seem very relevant in this instance.)

Step #2 is to figure out which script(s) is the likely cause. Assuming that only one script is broken (usually true), then the fastest system is to blank each .js page in turn, and see whether that fixed the problem. So blank vector.js, reload, and see if the cursor still jumps. If it does, then revert your blanking, go to the next page in the list, and repeat.

When you discover which page seems to contain the problem, then we reach Step #3: Restore half the contents of the broken page, and re-test. Continue restoring (or removing) half of the scripts until you've restore all but one script.

The point behind doing this by halves is that if you have a lot of scripts, then it takes too long to restore each individually. A binary search tree is more efficient.

Some Gadget Geek (talkcontribs)

I am actually using simplewiki. The only script page I have running there is https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/huggle3.css. I have blanked that page, but the problems persist using VisualEditor.

Reply to "Cursor keeps jumping!"
ClemRutter (talkcontribs)

I switched the beast on- i tried to make a quick edit to add a citation- and I have disabled it again. If it comes on the subhead instead of VE, I can continue to test it- but if it replaces edit source it has to go.

Where are the citation templates? Unusable with out them. It may be an improvement on ve but I need the real editor there at all times as fall back. The citation issue is important- for grown up articles one cites with templates then later goes back and converts them manually to sfn and efn.

The templates are not perfect- we lack one for cite sign (useful in a museum) and cite in compliation- where the paper is contained in a volume published under another authors name,and again the facility to set up sfn/efn automatically would be useful.

When training academics to use WP one needs one simple foolproof method that is close to what they have used in academic papers- often for example they will have chosen a BLP that they want to add and will be clutching a pile of tomes from a specialist library which will support notablity and the mental outline for the task. The best approach I have seen is where the trainer says: there are two editor, VE is good but until you have learnt to edit it is too complicated- so today we are going to stick to Wikitext and you can experiment later.

Icons are impossible in a training situation- we need to be able to say- ǵo to the button labelled "Cite", or "Advanced" rather than describe squiggles, and use words in out training booklets (until we ave a special font including them all) Enough. I have switched it off.

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

To answer your question, that depends on the wiki. On en.wp, they're in the "manual" tab of the Cite tool, if I understand your question correctly (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/Citations-Full#Manual). Other templates can be added via Insert --> Template. (If you want Cite Sign and Cite Compilation templates to show up in the menu for everyone permanently, you need community consensus, then there are instructions at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Citation_tool#Citation_tool_definition .) Thanks for your feedback.

Reply to "Citation templates"
Vincenzo1492 (talkcontribs)

I worked a while now with the new editor. It's basically easy, helpful, thus great.

To still speed up editing work a bit more I am missing particularly:

  • redlinks in previews
  • Preview button next to Save changes button for immediate and interim preview
  • combined view for preview&editor to compare edits&results easily

What is completely irritating when jumping around between buttons & views is the doubled Save changes button. It often takes a second look to eliminate irritations - added up I already missed a few minutes of my life time because of this second look... Labelling it different would be cool, either:

  • Save changes and Publish changes

or

  • Save changes and Save and publish

I would prefer the first suggestion because human brain would decode the difference between both options starting with the first letters "S" & "P". On the second suggestion the decoding would start not before the sixth letter on "Save c" & "Save a". And in many other languages the terms for "Save" and "Publish" start with distinguishable letters, too (FR: "Enregistrer/Publier", DE: "Sichern/Veröffentlichen", RU: "сохранять/опубликова́ть", ES: "Guardar/Publicar", IT: "Salva/Pubblicare" etc. pp.)

Misc.:

  •  I am not 100% fine with the behaviour of the "link editor" but I still did not figure out what I would suggest to improve it (improve it from my POV). I don't.
  • It takes long until the editor opens in Firefox. In Chromium it's good.

Keep on keeping on the good work!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for your comments; I really appreciate it. Here are some quick comments:

  1. Redlinks in previews: This is phab:T153535. A solution is (hopefully) on the way in the next week or two.
  2. Changes to the Save button: A split button is being discussed ('click here to start the save process, but you can choose preview from a dropdown'; see phab:T153306 and related tasks), and a change will probably happen soon.
  3. Combined view: Do you mean that you want a side-by-side dynamic display (edit this side, change shows immediately in the other side), or merely that you want to be able to see the preview and the wikitext code at the same time (which is phab:T155732)?
  4. Save/Publish: You might be interested in a recent discussion at Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier .
  5. Link editor: It's better than it used to be, but IMO it still needs work. Feel free to start a new thread if you have any ideas.
  6. Performance: At the moment, I think that the speed is worst in Firefox. Performance is not the devs' main focus this quarter, but they are aware of the problems.
197.218.80.231 (talkcontribs)

> Redlinks in previews: This is phab:T153535. A solution is (hopefully) on the way in the next week or two.

According to the phabricator task, this will probably be available today in mediawiki.org, and this week everywhere else, unless something unexpected happens ....

197.218.80.231 (talkcontribs)

Oops, mediawiki.org tomorrow...

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Redlinks now fixed.

Catrìona (talkcontribs)

Hi, I am sorry to be a downer but I much prefer the old source editor for a number of reasons:

  • This one takes a long time to load with my connection
  • It's a pain to preview the page and confusing since you have to "save changes" first. Previously it was one click.

I could live with the rest of the changes (which aren't particularly helpful for me personally) but these are real deal breakers for me so I would much appreciate having the option to use the old source editor. Thanks. ~~~~

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks for sharing your views.

The team has no plans to remove the 2010 WikiEditor. (There are lots of editing tools that could be called "the old editor".) You can keep using it if you like it better.

Performance is a problem for a number of editors, especially on larger pages. They're planning to try something different for the Preview issue – a button that lets you "Save changes", but has an option to skip straight to "Preview" first. Also, the same keyboard shortcuts work in the most popular old editors as well as this one.

Reply to "Experiences/feedback"

Blue "Save Changes" Button is overused with different functions

5
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
StrayBolt (talkcontribs)

The blue "Save Changes" button occurs in two places and does slightly different things. This will likely become moot with additional changes suggested already. Maybe the first button could be "Save Changes..." or "Save Form" but that might sound a little confusing. Maybe the Save Form could just have a "Save" Button. Better might be four edit/view modes: Source, Visual, Preview, Changes.

Thanks for working on improving the editor!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You're welcome.

This idea has been suggested in different forms a few times over the last four years. It does seem to bother a small number of people (some of whom I suspect of having a professional background in UI design  :-), but it doesn't seem to stop people from figuring out how to use the button. As you note, there are some changes coming relatively soon, but I don't think that they will address this point directly.

StrayBolt (talkcontribs)

The issue was just mentioned again above. :-)

I like the title "Don't Make Me Think", so "doesn't seem to stop people from figuring out how to use the button" sounds like there is a little room for improvement.

As much as it is nice to jump around between editing/viewing modes, would best practices recommend showing changes to fill in the save comment and show preview to double-check your results before saving (or something like that)? Would some sort of visible checklist (button highlights?) encourage that? IMDB (not that I recommend their method) does checks on the input and can require checking a box when you are doing something slightly odd. Does WP flag some errors, other than looking at the preview to discourage saving with errors?

Frigory (talkcontribs)

> some of whom I suspect of having a professional background in UI design

Somewhat, but yet it remains uneffective when you’re an experienced wikimedian user who wants to work quickly.

My main contributions on the projects are about typo and formatting, and for it I need to preview very often (i.e. a change, a look, a change, a look). With the current system, the best solution is to have a second tab in my browser with the initial page while I would prefer to see my changes in a well-thought editor.

Thanks for the work anyway — :-).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Previewing in advance slows down the save process (sometimes substantially, if you're working on a large or complicated page on a slow or busy computer), so I'm not sure that we want to do that. We forced 'Show changes' when VisualEditor was first released, and it got mixed reviews.

I think that phab:T44138 is the central task for the Save button. (You can add suggestions/mockups/comments, etc. there, if you have any technical/substantive suggestions or questions. Login by clicking the MediaWiki logo underneath the username box. Phab's a pretty friendly place overall.)

Reply to "Blue "Save Changes" Button is overused with different functions"

Suggestions about the finalizing functions

4
Frigory (talkcontribs)

Noticing (like many other editors) the fact that the Preview button is only available in the ‘Save changes’ popup, I’ve got a wish for this popup which already annoyed me a lot with the Visual Editor: I’d like it to appear at the top of the editor, toggling quickly, just like the Search & replace and the Special chars toolbars, and with a more general text such as ‘Finalize’. The current system, while being very counter-intuitive, makes the popup long to appear (one second, which is very long when you just want to change some typo or links), and it implies summarizing the changes without being able to check them in the editor because it is disabled (so it needs a big intellectual effort if we just made an action which is not common for us). Having the ‘Preview’ and ‘Review changes’ buttons in this toolbar would then be quite acceptable.

Another suggestion: on my desktop computer, I’ve got two monitors each using a resolution of 1920×1080. Seeing the preview in the full viewport without even having the contents on the borders that reminds what the readers will see (the project interface) is just waste. For my case, it would be really helpful to have the preview just next to the editor, I mean: the editor on the left, the preview (or the reviewing of the changes) on the right. The ‘Preview’ and ‘Review changes’ buttons could then be at the top of this panel on the right. We could have a button on the right of the main toolbar that would toggle this panel: a first click would show the panel on the right (taking half of the editor’s area), a second click would show the panel on the whole editor area, a third click would close the panel. Also, I’d love to have two buttons between the editor and the preview when they’re both shown, to get the scrolling of one panel into the other (this would need some algorithm to really have in one panel what you have in the other). Such an interface would be a strong improvement compared to the old editor (I could extend my browser window on my two screens to have the editor on one screen, the preview on the other), while currently it can still help to have a text editor next to MediaWiki’s editor just to be able to get this layout.

A third unrelated remark: I see, at the bottom of the editor, the article’s categories, which are semi-translucent/disabled; and they’re not displayed in the preview (just like the table of contents) while, to me, they should be.

Besides, I really like the look & feel of the editor; I’m keeping it and hoping it’ll improve quickly (because Wikimedia projects really deserve much better editors).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The devs are talking about a change to the Save button. Have you tried the new switch-to-visual-mode button (near the blue Save button)? It might be something like that, except you could choose to skip straight to Preview or Review Changes if you wanted.

Frigory (talkcontribs)

Yes, a drop-down. I had the idea too, but to me my idea is more interesting — I did not suggest a unique coherent interface though, to keep the suggestion open, but I can be more precise or realize a mockup if you’re interested.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. I think that you might be interested in exploring phab:T44138 and related tasks to see what they're working on.

Reply to "Suggestions about the finalizing functions"
Summary by Elitre (WMF)
BDaniel (talkcontribs)

Clashes various editing and reading as doing odd source code editing paragraph

examples:

https://he.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%98_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9F&diff=19948305&oldid=19948300

https://he.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%98_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9F&diff=19953388&oldid=19953351

thanks for answers

BDaniel (talkcontribs)

if you know hebrew (I used google translate from this language):

"התנגשויות עריכה שונות ומוזרות קוראות כשעושים עריכת קוד מקור בפסקה"

Amire80 (talkcontribs)

@Elitre (WMF), in both cases it looks like the user edited a section, and only that section was saved and the rest of the article was discarded. Looks like a bug.

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@BDaniel, @Amire80, any chance we can get steps/ideas about how to reproduce the problem? More details about user's configuration are also welcome!

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

That's phab:T154217. This has happened to several editors during edit conflicts. They have not found the cause yet. All information is wanted.

Zacchaeusbarbour (talkcontribs)

When I tried to do behind the scenes updates to the 2017-18 NFL Playoffs, the wikitext editor redirects me to the 2017 NFL season. What can you do to prevent this?

ESanders (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I can edit the redreict page fine in both VE and the new wikitext mode.

Zacchaeusbarbour (talkcontribs)

How? I've been trying, but it forced me to turn off the new wikitext mode (for now). What can be done to prevent the redirects.

Reply to "Automatic Redirects"

Non-existent pages' links are blue

4
Summary last edited by Elitre (WMF) 16:15, 12 April 2017 13 days ago
Bencemac (talkcontribs)

In the preview mode the non-existent pages are blue (see the picture) on huWiki, but they should be red. An example: Kanda Szajaka (on enWiki Sayaka Kanda) doesn't have an article yet but the links are blue on the picture.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hey there; this is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T153535, and we'll get around to it soon.

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

Thanks!

Bencemac (talkcontribs)

@Jdforrester (WMF): It's ok now. Thanks your cooperation!