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About Typography refresh (Snowflakes)

Wolf359borg started this topic
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Wolf359borg (talk)

I am a Japanese Wiki user. Is it possible to specify a font for each language? There is a problem "font-family: Gerogia, serif" for non-Latin user. See Talk:Typography refresh/Archive 4#Languages problems.

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margins etc.

62.216.204.25 started this topic
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62.216.204.25 (talk)

Hi.

   I suggest to use margins in percentage, not fix, so you get more air, esp. on bigger screens. And don't use centered tags in the sidebar. I mean don't use it anywhere. 
   Provide larger vertical top-margins in the sidebar for headlines, so you get your structure more visible.

And you should keep the text together with a max-width of the main-div, so you get no more than about 75 letters in one line. This is for readability reasons.

  Don' be afraid of "wasting" space. Let it breathe!

Thx for reading.

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General feedback, a bug, and a complaint about an icon

Sven Manguard started this topic and there was one other participant
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Sven Manguard (talk)

Hey, awesome to see how this is coming along.

I'm torn about putting all of the infoboxes off to the right. On the on hand, it seems useful as a way of getting information to people efficiently. On the other hand, having a thin link bar on the left and a much thicker infobox bar on the right throws the balance of the page off, and makes all of the text and images feel kind of squished in the center. As was said below, a way to collapse that bar (and have the text spread back out into that space) would be nice. I think it should default to having the bar open each time you go to a page, though (i.e. if I go to autumn, collapse the bar, go to summer, and then go back to autumn, the bar should be expanded again).

I went to the page en:And Yet It Moves, and noticed that the Reception template (the one that details the review scores) has been moved to the right. The word "Reception", however, is still where the template was originally, and is surrounded by a whitespace gap. This might be because that word is part of the trigger to collapse the table down.

On the plus side, I actually went to that page to check on how Winter handled en:Template:multiple image, and it looks awesome. It was rapidly becoming one of my favorite toys before, and Winter will only make me want to use it more.

Lastly, I wanted to suggest that you use a circle with a plus in it, instead of a star, for indicating Good Articles in the box up at the top of the right bar (And Yet It Moves has one). Stars are the domain of Featured content (articles, pictures, portals, and topics), and I'd rather not use them for Good Articles because there can be a pretty sizable quality gap between GAs and FAs.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

Sven Manguard: The icon for "Good" articles is only the star because I didn't have time to create a new one. I just cloned the code that handles "Featured". We'll have different icons.

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Echo's icon and number are misaligned

Negative24 started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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Negative24 (talk)

It seems the bell icon (for Echo) and the number that shows the number of new messages are misaligned with each other. I'm running on Chrome OS 35 with a 1024x600 display. Thanks.

Sven Manguard (talk)

Confirmed on Firefox with a 1600x900 display. http://prntscr.com/44x44f

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

Thanks! I'll see about getting a fix for this in soonish.

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Why not taking existing concepts from designers?

Julian Claus started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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Julian Claus (talk)

It may be a little awkward but why not take finished concepts from professional designers with measurable feedback like these:

http://wikipedia.gkvasnikov.com/ http://www.wikipediaredefined.com/

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

Julian Claus: Pretty much what Ckoerner said below. For instance, both the examples you posted downplay or even ignore the multi-lingual facet of the site, which is arguably its most important feature.

Ckoerner (talk)

I can't speak for WMF, but as someone who has designed systems, it's never as easy do approach it from the outside (like these designers have) without multiple, deep, conversations with those who manage a product. In my experience it's more beneficial (faster, better end result, more thought out in edge cases) to have a dedicated team - with years of experience with the 'product' - learning, developing, and evolving the interface and experiences.

I could show an automaker a great concept for a car, with all the features I'd love, but then we'd end up with The Homer.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

There's another aspect to this, by the way: most of those redesigns do not include licensing that would allow us to reuse the ideas.

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Widescreen

Magnus Manske started this topic
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Magnus Manske (talk)

Played with CSS on a wide screen, and for >1600px, this makes a reasonable hack of a ~960px central column: $('#container').css({'max-width':'1550px','margin-left':'auto','margin-right':'auto'})

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I hate the logo in the top left corner

Whatamidoing (WMF) started this topic and there was one other participant
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Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

When I scroll down, the Wikipedia globe covers up what I want to read. If you're going to keep something for "branding" (which is IMO unnecessary) then it needs to be much smaller and maybe horizontal (perhaps just the "Wikipedia" text?). Floating logos shouldn't interfere with viewing content.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

Whatamidoing (WMF): That is not the behavior that should happen. The logo should literally turn only to the wordmark.

Can I get a screenshot?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

Jorm (WMF): Sadly, no: I thought about grabbing one last night, and then decided that since it was intentional, it would be unnecessary. (I should know better.) However, if you check your e-mail, you'll see a related screenshot.

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Screen width

CaptainPedge started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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CaptainPedge (talk)

http://i.imgur.com/8TkkQLP.png - Need I say more?

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

CaptainPedge: I just now - like, less than 5 minutes ago - uploaded a fix for that. Shift-refresh and you should see it.

CaptainPedge (talk)

Jorm (WMF): Fair enough :)

What about the whitespace underneath the right hand sidebar?

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

CaptainPedge: I'll have to take a look. I'm not seeing it at my current configuration.

CaptainPedge (talk)

Jorm (WMF): http://i.imgur.com/hLaaZp0.png

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

CaptainPedge: OH! That is actually intended. It will (eventually) start being filled with other tools and methods for surfacing additional content related to the article you're viewing, plus additional mechanisms for contribution.

I just haven't written them or faked them up yet.

Things like gallery browsers, or discussion stubs, or a list of popular quotations, or whatever.

CaptainPedge (talk)

Jorm (WMF): 2 things:

1. Is the plan to expand the body of the article underneath the sidebar, like the current design expands beneath the infobox, or is the whitespace there to stay?

2. Its amazing that you're being this responsive and it is very much appreciated :)

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

CaptainPedge: Ideally, we'd like to fill it with useful things, and we'd also like to move away from a lot of the current re-flow problems the current layouts encounter. If you look at the current site, there are sometimes places where huge swaths of "null content" exist that, by virtue of the content engine's design, are not usable. Consider the space next to most Tables of Contents.

And thanks for your appreciation! Getting comments is how I find bugs in the design, and the best way to get them is to be responsive. I'm locked out of the Boingboing thread, though, so that sucks.

CaptainPedge (talk)

Jorm (WMF): I just feel that on a long article, youre just gonna end up with a long column of whitespace that could be used. Oh one more thing, I don't know if this is just me, or if it's something the bothers other people. but I prefer when everything on the page scrolls the same way, and you don't end up with like top-bars that hang off the top of the window (not that it's happening here, but I just thought I should make the point) In my experience those sorts of thing only end up bugging out in some way and screwing the whole thing up.

Ckoerner (talk)

CaptainPedge: Winter does look a lot better when looking at a specific article, like say Scotland as an example. That right bar doesn't appear as awkward.

Jorm (WMF) That might be something to think about when sharing Winter with more people - don't lead with the Main Page or other visually 'empty' pages as examples. It wasn't until I dug into a few pages that I figured out what was going on.

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VisualEditor

Ckoerner started this topic and there was one other participant
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Ckoerner (talk)

Where does VisualEditor fall into this demo? I'm a little surprised that the toolbar is very similar to, but not the same as VisualEditor. I was actually expecting the non-wikitext interface to load (yes, I know it's a demo!)

Aren't both initiatives from WMF? It's seems incongruous to have two very large, very impactful projects diverge in such a manner.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

Ckoerner: The editor designs in Winter are the current thinking of where both of our editors should be heading.

Ckoerner (talk)

Jorm (WMF): Ah, that makes sense. You all are doing yeoman’s work!

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Language box

CaptainPedge started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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CaptainPedge (talk)

So does the language box at the top need to be so prominent? Surely thats something that the user is unlikely to change very often, if at all. As so, why is it right at the top of the sidebar?

Jorm (WMF) (talk)

CaptainPedge: 70% of our user base is multilingual (with 30% speaking three or more languages). The multi-lingual facet of the projects is arguably the most important feature of the entire encyclopedia.

We're experimenting with various language selection designs and this is just one of them. The reason the language selector is so prominent is that you need to be able to find it if you accidentally end up on a page in a language you do not speak or recognize anything from - specifically things with non-latin scripts, in many cases.

I'm working on a test harness that will allow us to replace everything with Russian, which is a good way to see if English speakers can find out how to get to their own language.

Ckoerner (talk)

CaptainPedge: I have to second this thought. When consuming wiki content (Wikipedia or 3rd party) changing the language is low on my activity radar. Full disclosure. I'm an English native and have never edited or visited other language-versions of pages.

Besides this, I really like the direction of this project.

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