Hey, I'm very impressed with the prototype! There's no mention on this project page, but I'm wondering if it is yet possible to port any of the source code to MW 1.23? Cloning into the skins directory revealed no means of inclusion, thus I can't test or develop locally.
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Previous discussion is archived at Talk:Winter/Archive 1.
As far as I know, this is a MediaWiki-less prototype, floating on raw HTML/CSS/JS.
On the Location of Articles' Tables of Contents
I like being able to access articles' tables of contents from Winter's main toolbar, but shouldn't this functionality only appear once users have scrolled past articles' actual tables of contents?
Improved or Different Header Views?
I kind of like it when an article's title replaces the search prompt in Winter right now, but shouldn't the 'Watch Article' star come along for the ride? I also understand how confusing this mechanic can be for people who haven't read up on Winter before test-driving it, so maybe the search bar and the 'article name' bar could be separated but remain side by side? If that were to happen, I'd like to see the 'article views and actions' bar currently residing underneath article titles be merged into this 'article name' bar. Maybe the toolbar could contain, in order, the 'Pin to watchlist' star, a pop-up menu from which you could select either 'Read' or 'Edit,' a pop-up menu from which you could select either 'the article on' or 'discussion about,' the current article's name, an article history button, the 'More' pop-up menu currently at the end of the present 'article views and actions' bar, the search bar, and then, finally, Winter's implementation of the Compact Personal Bar. Or maybe the search bar could still be accessible through a field containing articles' names, but it should just be pointed out to users more obviously that clicking on an article's name would allow them to switch to other articles? Could Winter's search functionality's 'magnifying glass' icon be dimmed? Or could something else differentiate the top bar's functionality for displaying article names and for displaying search terms? Maybe this set of ideas, especially the one about the combined navigation bar, isn't such a good one, though? Should users just have the ability to dock the 'article views and actions' toolbar to the bottom of the main one to create a two-tiered toolbar like the one that already exists in Vector? Perhaps these aren't the best ways to propose how to make Winter's toolbar more useable, though…
On the Behavior of Wikipedia's Logo in Winter
I don't really like it that Wikipedia's logo disappears from Winter when you scroll past it. I understand that the idea is to make the prototype's navigational tools take up less space, but couldn't that be achieved just as well by having the Wikipedia logo shrink and move to the left of Wikipedia's name and slogan?
You mean switch from the main logo to the horizontal logo shown above? That could work, but we'd need to go and create each of the hundreds of horizontal logos as we've not used it widely. Also, as has been widely observed before, the logo isn't very good as a logo and at small scale like this is very indistinct; using just the word mark is I think preferable.
Weird Sidebar Behavior
Has anybody noticed that the sidebar looks kind of weird if you scroll away from the top of the page after hiding the sidebar and then showing it again? I like how this makes the sidebar come with you as you scroll, but shouldn't its formatting remain the same as that which it takes on when you're at the top of the page after you've scrolled away from there?
Have you seen WikiWand?
Hi. I wonder if you have checked out WikiWand, which does something very similar to Winter. It could be interesting to see what features they've implemented and how relevant they could be to Winter.
What's interesting is that the website claims to increase Wikipedia load speed by 3 times, which is astonishingly fast. I wonder if the Winter team could look into what makes Wikiwand faster, and maybe implement something along similar lines to increase speed as well.
Yup, WikiWand is well known (well-sold? :p ) and all possible questions have been probably answered. Imho the greatest difference between WikiWand and Winter is its target: Winter team works for contributors and readers when WikiWand team seems to underestimate "Edit" button (are they aware of the existence of our community?). This fact excludes WikiWand from further discussion. Moreover, projects that aim to modernise MediaWiki interface are numerous (I think there was an analysis of them!). WikiWand wants to be known as the most 'trendy', 'cool' etc. WMF staff was improving MediaWiki design before it was cool :p
I've just discovered the prototype, and I want to write down my first impressions before any other rational analysis:
- I miss Wikipedia puzzle-ball logo. I've later discovered that it can be seen by zooming out to 90%, but the first gut feeling was one of a void, bare, unadorned page, not aesthetically pleasing. Recovering the left column with the logo made that impression go away.
- I love the clean, modern design, new layout for tools and navigation, and the right sidebar with useful, contextual tools! Good work.
Accessed on chrome browser on Windows 7.
Ok, I have now seen that the design is reactive and the left panel is shown with the window maximized, as well as the labels for buttons.
I have found a big no-no, a showstopper that would make me avoid using this interface in its entirety: none of the new interface buttons work as standard links with respect to the context menu and the "open link in new tab" option. As my navigation style involves opening lots of links at new tabs and accessing them later, I couldn't use this skin except by:
- copying the url,
- manually opening a new tab,
- pasting and loading the url,
- only then navigating to the target section,
- repating the above for each link I want to open.
I usually do all that in quick succession with fast middle-clicks on several links, so this interface makes my usual workflow slow as molasses.
Hrm. They *should* open in new tabs. You are referring to the links below the title (read/edit/history/etc.) ? I'll have to take a look at it.
Either way, this is not something that the production version will encounter.
Real MediaWiki installs won't have this problem.
Yes, I was referring to those buttons. They appear as
plain text button elements to the context menu, so the "open link in new tab" option is missing.
As these are navigation actions, and not POST forms, it would be best to make them links so that they work as expected for default browser operations (copying the target URL to the clipboard, opening in new tabs, "save target as...")
Some confusing things
In my opinion the Idea oft winter is good, but there are some things which are a little bit confusing:
- The Design: It seems to be mixture of the actual vector surface and the mobile surface, two totaly different things which doesn't fit together. It has no clear structure, because there are three different kind of things to klick on. In the Personal Toolbar you have grey icons; in the toolbar on the top of the articletext you have a bold text with icons; below the wikiglobe you have "normal" links like in vector.
- The dropdownmenus and the toolbars: The personal toolbar contains all points which are also part of the dropdownmenu, why? Same question for the dropdownmenu next to the wikipedialogo, which contains all features of the toolbar on the top of the articletext. In my opinion you should use either a toolbar or a dropdownmenu.
- The Table of Content: it is a part of the article, so it should be visible on its normal position and not hidden in a dropdownmenu.
- The searchbar: It is too large for the desktop version.
- The right colum: If you have an article without infobox and Commons-Template (e.g. the german version of the winter, the colum is nearly empty and wastes much space on the screen especially on small screens. In my opinion it would be better to remove the collum an put the interwikis into the left collum, the infobox into the text area (like in vector) and the Commons-Template below the infobox, because the Article itself is the most important thing and should get as many space as possible.
- the layout of the headlines: there should be a line below the headline like in the vector skin, because without this line you don't see where a main-section starts and ends, because all headlines nearly look the same.
- the history page: there must be a possibility to visit the diff-pages, because without this possibility the history-page looses much of its sense.
- the backgroundcolors: the background is completely white, only the background of the right colum is grey. Why? In my opinion there should be a clear difference between the article text background and the background of the rest of the page like in vector, so that the reader can see this is the article and this is the other stuff around the article, which is not a part of the article.
- the top bar which you see all the time: in my opinion this bar wastes much space, if you have a small display, so its better to remove the bar or give a possibility to fix the bar on the top of the article.
- hover-effects: they should be removed, because they don't work on a touchscreen and especially the hover-effect in the searchbar is very confusing.
- hiding things in dropdownmenus: in my opinion all links should be visible like in vector. Only buttons which are less important like move, delete or protect should be hidden in a dropdownmenu, if there is not enough space on the screen.
- the "more"-button in the toolbar on the top of the article (bug?): it behaves strange, because the box around the text, which apears, when you move the mouse over the button, ends around the "r" of "more" and does not include the arrow next to the text.
I think these are all things, which are confusing for me.
Llywrch: You'll have to make changes in your personal css, I'm afraid. While I think many people can agree that serif fonts are subjectively "prettier" for display and reading, there are design constraints involved with font selection.
For users who have dyslexia, large text blocks of serif fonts can be extremely difficult to read (they create "gutters" in the text). (There are also issues involving people who have certain forms of macular degeneration where this can occur, too).
Accordingly, for accessibility's sake, we must stick with sans-serif fonts for blocks of text.
Search bar inconsistent wording
- changning text on hover is really strange
- why change placeholder text to page's title? That's really confusing. I initially thought that this would change search from global to inside article (was rightly expecting global search though) The intention was probably to keep the page's title visible, but that's certainly not the way to go.