If $1 is in the header of a flow post, such as "Parametr $1 translation message not found", a weird bug shows up in watchlists where $1 is replaced with the username block of the user (I assume the $1 in the code). (I am assuming this is a Flow bug, not a watchist bug, as Flow overrides pretty much everything related to watchlists for its posts there.)
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I just received an error posting my last post. The error was:
- An error occurred.
- The error message received was: Exception Caught: Failed contacting Parsoid.
I do not know if this is the same error that caused a duplicate post issue earlier, but this didn't involve a duplicate post. I also keep getting the same error when looking for older posts.Show changes
1 day ago 00:19, 15 April 2014
Notifications should go away if you have visited the page that the post it is notifying you about is on without you needing to click on the notification, like with user talk notifications. This would simplify things for users and reduce confusion.
1 day ago 00:14, 15 April 2014
When you hide a post, Flow prompts you for a comment. These are displayed in the history. It seems that they should also be displayed in the page, after the hidden comment is expanded. (I assume this also applies to other levels of moderation.)
2 days ago 02:09, 14 April 2014
Not a bad idea... my only concern is that this might add clutter for not that much benefit – because, as soon as you expand the comment, in most cases you're able to see right away why it was hidden (e.g., spam, vandalism, personal attack, etc.). Is that information really worth repeating?
1 day ago 22:56, 14 April 2014
It looks like I can only edit my own messages. I think this is really unfortunate, because on a wiki, there are plenty of valid reasons to edit other people messages. For instance:
- a message contains something that breaks the layout of the page (a template with a syntax error, a gigantic picture).
- a message contains a broken link to an article or a discussion.
- new users often post messages without realizing that what they write will stay public for ever, and give e-mail adresses, personal phone numbers, etc. I usually remove those, although I don't want to hide the whole message in such cases.
- less common case: replace every occurrence of the real name of a user on the wiki, after a user rename request.
7 days ago 22:01, 8 April 2014
Orlodrim: Thanks for the feedback, on this experimental point. There are notes about it in the docs at Flow/FAQ#Will we be able to edit other people's posts? and in the table at Flow/FAQ#Components of the discussion system (under "Comment editing"), with a lot of detail in the linked subpage Flow/Editing comments.
I won't try to re-summarize that info (See the final "#Conclusion" section in that last link, for the TL;DR version), but I will note that: User Rename requests will be automagically handled much better than they are now - see this example topic. HTH. :)
7 days ago 23:09, 8 April 2014
As we can see on the WikiProject Breakfast and WikiProject Hampshire pages, the WikiProject boxes conflict with Flow a bit, which is something that needs to be considered for a large rollout - lest we anger the masses. I imagine this has been thought about, but has there been any ideas as of yet?
I was thinking of making a mockup for my idea, which is that there would be a "box" at the top of the page, either filling the right side (above the eventual table of contents) or above Flow, assuming the user doesn't have enough room for the former. Each WikiProject would have a name, logo, and Class/Importance in said box. It would also be the container for notices (Refideas, for example), and the timeline of events (peer review, reaching good article status, etc.). All of this being editable via a VisualEditor-esque interface. I think this'd look much better and facilitate organization of WikiProjects and edit suggestions for articles, without causing as much friction in the conversion of Talk pages to Flow upon its release.
Perhaps there are other, better ideas already on the roadmap, but I haven't seen any and figured I'd see if anyone liked mine.
10 days ago 03:22, 6 April 2014
Nicereddy: Thanks as always! The team had discussed it many months ago, and I prepared a whole bunch of notes for the design team, but I haven't delivered them yet as I didn't want too many redesigns going on at once.
I've seen many requests over the years, to make the banners smaller and more efficient. These banners (and the categories they embed) are the core of many of our current workflows, so could be crucial in the long-run for Flow.
But it might (?) need to be a multi-step process, whereby we initially just shrink the existing ones (using "small=yes" at Enwiki, e.g., and e.g.2), and then overhaul them properly many months later, when programmed workflows exist.
So, this is an ideal time for early brainstorming! Have at it!
7 days ago 23:51, 8 April 2014
Automatic notifications are pre-written in the reply text. The result is too many unnecessary notifications expected when your watchlist gets important, and you would have anyway visited on a daily basis your favourit pages.
12 days ago 20:02, 3 April 2014
Salix: When people receive a reply to a topic they've created or commented on, they expect to receive a notification for that. That's the way it is on all other major websites, and I think it's useful for the vast majority of users as it's automatic rather than manual, unlike the current Watchlist method. On top of that, this helps to quicken the pace of the conversation (people get notifications and can easily, quickly reply rather than hoping they'll find your reply manually) and also improves the understand-ability of the conversation by showing that the comment is made in reply to X or Y user.
12 days ago 21:44, 3 April 2014
Nicereddy: Well, it's not because "major websites" are using something that Wp must copy stupidely. We are not a social website, and some of us are busy writing encyclopédia articles here. This could be at least disabled on chosen pages, to give priority to eagerly awaited replies.
12 days ago 22:01, 3 April 2014
Salix: There's definitely going to need to be some experimentation and changes, over the months, when Flow starts to be used on more and more very-busy discussion pages. There are a lot of different editor types, with different needs and expectations and work habits, all of whom need to be kept in mind. Everyone from powerusers with thousands of pages watchlisted, to newcomers who don't know anything about watchlists. Eg. I know one very active admin who hasn't checked their watchlist in years, but instead uses memory/interest to revisit old/ongoing threads (but who generally likes the new "mention" echo feature).
There are quite a few possibilities as to how it could be developed*, more brainstorm-level suggestions would be warmly appreciated. :)
These* ideas have been suggested so far (plus my own):
- more fine-grained Echo preferences,
- an entirely new "Feed" for discussions,
- a variety of watchlist-overhaul concepts (eg. my very rough napskin sketch)
- different priority levels for "watchlisting"
- to some idea adapted from other sites/software
- to something unique that you suggest!
11 days ago 19:44, 4 April 2014
Quiddity (WMF): Ok. Here are my two cents : notifications are of different kind (mention, reply, thanks...) Could it be possible to have accordingly a blue, green or other color notification square ? Like that, if you happen to get only thanks notification (green square) it will be less emergency to look at it than if you get a blue (conversation) or red (a mixture of all that). By the way, I like your concept of article/feed separeted watchlist too.Show changes
11 days ago 21:18, 4 April 2014
Salix: There were some requests for something along those lines (either different colors, or different/multiple icons), at en:Wikipedia talk:Notifications/Archive 5#Granularity and also at en:Wikipedia talk:Notifications/Archive 5#Color-coding the dot a few months ago.
I'll ask the design team to see if they have any new input - I know they're working to reduce the size of the personal tools at the moment (eg. mw:Compact Personal Bar), and it might fit in well with that idea... in fact... hmmm! */me schemes*
7 days ago 00:06, 9 April 2014
I just got a notice that someone had replied to my thread via the notice popup. Yay! When I clicked "view board", it took me to the top of the page rather than to my specific conversation. Boo. :(
My expectation from other systems is that I'll go right to where I'm actually having the discussion, and then later I can scroll up/down if I want to see other new discussions in the same topic/board.
13 days ago 18:14, 2 April 2014
LuisV (WMF): Well, you clicked on "View board" and that's precisely what the notification took you to – the entire board :) If you click on any other part of that notification, it will take you to the specific topic where you were replied to, and if you click on the "post" link, it'll take you to the specific post.
But it sounds like what you're saying is that the "View board" call to action is too prominently highlighted and maybe not even really useful in this context. Totally valid point. I'll add this to the backlog of notifications-related things to run by Design.
12 days ago 19:25, 3 April 2014
Maryana (WMF): I think the issue is that it took him to the board, but not to the specific topic he wanted whilst still on the board. It'd be like a wikilink to "Barack Obama#Presidency", which is expected to lead you to the "Presidency" section whilst still loading the rest of the content, leads to the top of the Barack Obama page as a whole.
12 days ago 21:47, 3 April 2014
Hi, at first I didn't mind using this Flow, but it starts to be irritating on many points : - You can't use comments to moderate or explain your edits. - You can't have a complet view of the code to be able to copy/past from one place to another. - Self corrections are translating interwiki links into http code, so that you can't clic on them directely anymore. - it is sometimes difficult to realise who is speeking to who, especially when you don't need to talk to somebody in particular. Please improve this mess before imposing this to all wikipédians !Show changes
14 days ago 22:34, 1 April 2014
Salix: There is definitely a lot of work to do, and it definitely will not be imposed on anyone at any time soon. They're specifically asking for volunteer locations, in these early months, so that the software can develop slowly-and-steadily, without annoying anyone (or as few people as possible) who does not have interest in helping with input and feedback.
Re: "comments to moderate or explain your edits" - I think you are referring to Edit Summaries? There was a good discussion about that at en:Wikipedia talk:Flow/Archive 7#Edit summaries (which I won't attempt to summarize! except the points that: Summaries are often mis-used (to carry on the discussion), and are often missed completely by other editors (so if someone does add useful info there, few people will see it)) - the outcome is: they're currently using automatic excerpts when we make a new post. There's also bugzilla:57894 which requests an edit-summary feature when editing the Board Header, and there's an existing prompt for an edit-summary if we moderate (hide/delete/suppress) a post or topic. If there are continuing requests for all post-edits to have an edit-summary, then that could get added in, too. The more feedback they get, the more info the devs have to act on. :)
Re: "complete view of the code" - there's a plan (bugzilla:60465) to add a "view wikitext" link for other people's posts, so that we can learn/copy from each other as we do in current talkpages. It won't be the wikitext of the entire page though - would we need that for any specific circumstance ("use-case"), given that archiving will be handled automatically? (both via the existing infinite-scroll, but also by future features such as "copy/move this topic to Board X" and possibly some form of "archive this topic immediately")
Re: "Self corrections are translating interwiki links into http code" - The bug you saw here, is because
you used an interlanguage instead of interwiki link... aha, I was wrong! This is the old bugzilla:61725 getting weirder. It seems that fr: links are working differently from en: and de: links. I've given new details at that bug. Thanks!
Re: "it is sometimes difficult to realise who is speeking to who" - do you mean with the 3-level indent system, or the linked-username-Notifications, or something else? What do you suggest as a potential improvement? Thanks :)
8 days ago 23:24, 7 April 2014