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The Collaboration team has enabled Flow on this talk page.

Previous feedback is on Talk:Flow Portal/Archive2 (using old Liquid Threads), and on our labs server.

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DannyH (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Today, we released a new Flow feature -- a side rail, which holds the content that was previously in the header, at the top of the page. You can choose to close the side rail on a board, which gives you an almost-full-screen width for the board.

There are two problems that the side rail is intended to address.

First, we know that it's important to have announcements, warnings and metadata easily available at the top of the page. At the same time, the header boxes can get very long on an article talk page, pushing the conversations well below the edge of the screen. This is baffling for new users, and it can be a hassle for experienced people, too. Putting those templates and instructions in the side rail keeps them visible, without getting in the way of the discussions on the page.

Second, we've had lots of feedback about the fixed width on Flow. Some people like the fixed width and some don't, and we wanted to give people more choice. The side rail gives us an opportunity to add a toggle that changes the display width.

There's one piece that's coming soon -- the toggle should remember the last state that you've chosen, across all the Flow pages that you visit. Right now, it gives you the default on every page, with the side rail open. We're going to add that preference in a few weeks.

So what do you think -- helpful or not?

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

Strong support. It's extremely helpful. To be honest, I'm looking forward to enabling it on other namespaces, too. Probably, we -- volunteers -- need to adapt some templates to the new width, but I'm going to do it gladly, since the feature is really useful.

I think the smaller font size looks inconsistent and thus a bit confusing. #accessibility #typographyrefresh

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

That is... an elegant solution to the original controversial decision to have a fixed layout. Well done, team.

DannyH (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I'm glad to hear it looks good to you. I've been excited to get this out.

I've been wondering about the font size in the side rail; I'd like to know what people think of it. Does anyone else have thoughts on that?

Tar Lócesilion (talkcontribs)

Another problem: the side rail doesn't show up in a single thread view, and I think it should do.

Imagine a frequent case, a new notification about a response, or a ping. The user isn't necessarily aware of the discussion, whole page itself, maybe its generic rules etc. (An example? One's first article and articles for deletion.) The user can see one, pure thread, no documentation. Unless he is a regular user, he's likely to get lost without documentation provided by the side rail.

Reply to "New side rail"
Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

When will be the mobile version of Flow available? Is there anything going on that side? Now more and more people are editing from mobiles.

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

Flow does have a mobile version, which you should see when you visit a Flow board in a mobile browser. (If not, please let us know what browser you're using and post a screenshot).

I just noticed a couple issues with the mobile support, though. One of them, which I fixed, was preventing the reply form from showing, triggering the no-JS reply form.

However, it does still work (I posted this from mobile).

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

when I thanked you.. (I mean it real) it asked me for confirmation on new page and than again that it was sent to you on another page.. 2 redirect for thanks?? i think.. when i press "thank", it should simply turned into "thanked" and you recieve thanks.. :)

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

We're planning to do that, but first we will probably add undo support. (People are concerned about accidentally thanking people and being unable to undo it). See phab:T71636 and phab:T63737.

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

Indentation checking.. On mobile

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

well I am posting from mobile but Page which loads is still the desktop page. Specific mobile design not appeared. :(

Mattflaschen-WMF (talkcontribs)

Please post a screenshot. It uses responsive design so it's not totally separate, but there are differences to improve the mobile UX. For example, the topic menu appears within the gray box (on touch), instead of the side (on hover).

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

i am using Chrome on Android phone.

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

Trying again to reply from mobile version..

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

Success this time.. :)

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

Some issues:

  • Takes time to appear after posting comments
  • quite difficult to know who is replying who..
  • Comment box do not enlarge as I type more and wikitext markup'' appear on it..
  • I think CCBYSA message should be hidden in mobile version to save space
  • STAR for adding topic to watchlist appear on topic title sometimes
Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

The license message cannot be hidden, it's the only thing allowing the content to be reused. Maybe there could be an option to disable it (surrounded by lots of warnings and clarifications), it would work as proof that the editor has read the license and agrees with it.

Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)
Flow Bug Screenshot 2015-05-28-02-25-43
Flow Bug Screenshot 2015-05-28-02-45-06
This comment was hidden by Nizil Shah (history)
Nizil Shah (talkcontribs)

OK.. I sent this two screenshots.. and when i replied to image it reappears.. like i posted twice.. :)

This comment was hidden by Nizil Shah (history)
Reply to "Mobile version"
Rickdog (talkcontribs)

I edited the Flow page with the "edit" tab when not logged in. Isn't this an invitation to wipe-out your entire wiki?

Jorm (talkcontribs)

No. That's how wikis work.

Reply to "Mediawiki edit policy"
Base (talkcontribs)

What a human readable thing. Can't they contain at least talk page's name? --~~~~

Base (talkcontribs)

Oh and it seems I cant even make a link in the heading. How is it expected to be used? --~~~~

He7d3r (talkcontribs)


Reply to "[[Topic:Sh1c1yo99eqr7h78]]"
Base (talkcontribs)

Damn guys why can't I use a signature in that thing? And that monochromatic nickname at the top of the post just kills the feel of being on talk page. --~~~~

He7d3r (talkcontribs)

See T90593 and T53154, which are vaguely related.

Reply to "Signatures"
NickK (talkcontribs)

In addition, I have spotted that it is simply impossible to link to English Wikipedia. en:Gdańsk, w:Gdańsk, wikipedia:Gdańsk, , w:Gdańsk, wikipedia:Gdańsk are all red links and do not take me to English Wikipedia.

NickK (talkcontribs)

Oh wait, they do not work at Talk:Sandbox but they work here (although they are marked as external links). Completely weird.

Reply to "Interproject links"

Hardly understandable threading model

NickK (talkcontribs)

I have made a few tests on Talk:Sandbox with a mock discussion. Nothing too complicate: there is a proposal, three users answering to the proposal and one user endorsing opinion of another user.

The problem is that new threading model make any non-linear discussion unreadable. Once there is a deviation from linearity, that's the deviation that becomes linear, while the main thread moves on the next level. In the cases I have shown the discussion becomes difficult to read (and even more difficult to summarise). In fact this threading model is simply counter-intuitive and does the opposite to what you would suppose. That's sad as this could have been a real discussion and this could have meant that Gdańsk would become Danzig (nothing personal, just a famous edit war, sorry).

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

In that example, the problem comes from Encyclopaedist003's position being ambiguous, as the "your reasoning" and "this spelling" may refer to any of the positions stated so far in the discussion, and because it doesn't use the traditional "support" or "oppose" !vote. How is this fault of the threading model?

In that situation the proper thing to do would be to ask this user for further clarification; such ambiguous comment should never be taken into account to decide consensus in a real move discussion.

NickK (talkcontribs)

The comment was a bit intentionally vague. The discussion was rather real, it was inspired from a real discussion on ukwiki village pump with the following structure:

Initial suggestion

Comment on answer1
  • Conclusion

This is a very simple threading structure (max. 2 levels) and is very common for discussions. The problem of Flow threading is that a) comment can become vague because of being misplaced; b) logical order of comments is broken.

Diego Moya (talkcontribs)

That assumes that there "is" a logical ordering of comments where every post is a direct reply to exactly one previous comment in the thread, and that you can always tell which one is the parent post. This is a convention in talk pages that is not at all obvious (making it difficult to newcomers to tell what's going on), and it's not always true.

BTW, the structure of that particular example conversation in your post would be exactly the same in the new hierarchical model, except with one less indentation level in all the answers and comments.

Reply to "Hardly understandable threading model"

"Preview"/"Vorschau" is the wrong name, or better: it's the wrong link

Sänger (talkcontribs)

There's a line called "Wikitext verwendet Markup und du kannst jederzeit eine Vorschau des Ergebnisses anzeigen." (Dunno how it's in english), that is utterly wrong. It's not a preview, it's just a switch to VE, and that's something completely different. Especially as there is a special button for switching to VE.

Either change the text (not preferred) or use a proper preview there, without VE.

Sänger (talkcontribs)

Just tried it with english setting, and it's called: "Wikitext uses markup and you can preview the result anytime.", so again a wrong, deceitful wording. It ain't a preview, it's just VE. (talkcontribs)

And VE is just an editable preview.

Reply to ""Preview"/"Vorschau" is the wrong name, or better: it's the wrong link"

Quieter Echo Notifications for Flow, after first glance

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The new feature phab:T94634 ("Quieter Echo notifications for Flow posts") was released this week. This will change the red New Notifications badge to grey, as soon as we click on it, whilst retaining the number for any still unseen Flow notifications. The goal is to help make it clearer when we get a brand new notification, if we had previously decided to leave some unread - E.g. If I had unread notifications, but wanted to leave 2 of them for later, the badge will be colored grey, and have the number "2"; then, when I receive a new notification, I can easily see that by the fresh red coloring as well as the number incrementing, without having to recall what the previous number was.

Design tweaks to fix the low-accessibility of the white text on grey background, will follow. (phab:T98526)

Note: There is one existing bug for this - it currently always shows as grey if we have "1" unread/unseen notification. That bug has a patch awaiting code-review and will be cherry-picked as soon as possible. (Technical details at phab:T94634#1264132)

Reply to "Quieter Echo Notifications for Flow, after first glance"
Gryllida (talkcontribs)

I do not know whether this is specific to mobile interface or not, but when viewing Topic:Sgo3wuoyh9qjkjda (for example), there is no clickable link to Talk:Flow. I filed this as phab:T97987.

Reply to "Missing link back"