WMF working group for the future of CI
On Google Hangouts Meet. Present:
The goal of this meeting is to review what's happened since yesterday's meeting and plan work until next meeting.
Actions from previous meeting:
- TODO: Lars: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217595 (Concourse CI)
- Done: Brennen to double-check gerrithub Done
- Done: Željko to continue to look for more possible candidates
- TODO: Lars to document how to build Blubber and run unit tests in CI
- TODO: Dan to evaluate JenkinsX
- TODO: Brennen to evaluate Zuul v3
- TODO: Zeljko to evaluate HarborMaster
- Lars is still mid-evaluation of Concourse. Anyone else looked at it?
- Brennen: Started down this path, will give it a few more minutes this afternoon.
- We met with Pivotal. Comments? Opinions?
- Z: They were open, that's a good sign.
- Discussion of open core.
- Lars: Bigger worry is that it's much harder to get started than GitLab - still haven't implemented toy CI project. In the case of GitLab, it was 10 minutes or so (ignoring Go problems) - Concourse is more work. GitLab - added a .yaml file.
- Lars: Concourse would require some automation to make things as easy as GitLab.
- Dan: It might be a benefit to have pipeline definition decoupled. Some people complain about having to add metadata to repos.
- Z: People having to be aware of separate repos and stuff has disadvantages.
- Lars: We need to make things so easy that people never bother us and don't ever complain about anything again. :)
- Dan: Another concern is that it's built around the assumption of a pull model - polls repos. Our system is built on listening to the Gerrit event stream.
- We can build the event-based feature, but it something we'd have to own.
- Discussion of how we're going to have to build scaffolding for anything we propose, probably.
- Discussion of code review, issue tracking, hard decisions.
- Lars: It seems like GitLab would require less scaffolding than Concourse.
- Summary of discussion: We haven't totally ruled out Concourse yet, though there are some marks against.
Other evaluations, discussion
- Dan: Didn't get far enough to give substantial feedback, but the basic thing to note is that it's sort of a toolchain detached from Jenkins itself. Yet another slightly orthogonal piece to the puzzle.
- Discussion of CD foundation - who's actually doing something vs. marketing; Tekton. Who is committing to change their system? We don't know.
- Lars: CD foundation seems too late to affect this WG, too early to affect anyone else.
- Z: Those tools do look like things that're actually used by big orgs.
- Dan: Jenkins X is a big toolchain that's being used to change the model for CI... Different model than traditional Jenkins setup.
- Dan: One thing to consider is k8s. If we focus on things that can utilize our k8s infrastructure, I think that's an important decision point.
- Lars: Some requirements (mobile) aren't going to fit k8s.
- Dan: We might be able to bridge here, but it's going to be a PITA no matter what.
- Z: Maybe we should consider mobile app CI out of scope for the moment.
- Lars: We've been asked to keep it in mind.
- Zuul v3?
- Brennen hasn't started yet.
- Zeljko hasn't started yet, had a short chat with Mukunda - similar model to GitLab.
- Mukunda offered evaluation assistance here.
- Summary of Brennen's eval here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217852
- TODO: Zeljko to take a quick second look.
- Should we order the hard requirements so that the list starts with the ones we think are most important, and maybe demote the rest to softer requirements?
- What would be a good process for this?
- TODO: Lars to set up list for voting after this meeting
- TODO: All to vote on hard requirements in Etherpad
Winnow down list of candidates?
- Quick survey of stuff in spreadsheet.
- TODO: Zeljko to create some tickets.
Next blog post
- What can we put into the next blog post (Friday)?
- Would be nice to report some progress.
- Discuss blog post in meeting next week.
- When shall we meet next? What should we do by then?
- Monday 17:00 UTC
- TODO: Dan to reparent the Jenkins X ticket to the main WG ticket
- TODO: Zeljko to have a look at sourcehut
- TODO: Lars to check with Greg on how to report