Talk:Talk pages project/Replying

About this board

The team would value any thoughts and/or questions you have about this new tool for Replying to specific comments on talk pages.

Enabling subscribe action in Wikipedia namespace

8
Nux (talkcontribs)
Jeff G. (talkcontribs)

The subscribe action is limited to level 2. I think that limit is ridiculous.

TheDJ (talkcontribs)

It's already very difficult to find and keep track of level 2 sections. Smaller heading levels have many more irregularities, complexities and are much more often wrapped in all sort of custom HTML. Maybe at some point it might be possible, but it's probably not a good idea to further complicate this already complex problem at this point in time. Small steps will guarantee much more predictable and stable results for the communities.

Jeff G. (talkcontribs)
Nux (talkcontribs)

@Jeff G. on plwiki we will change heading levels up a notch. I think you can do the same. Probably some bots and scripts would need to change but that is mostly just a problem of organizing migration.

Nux (talkcontribs)

So it would work if we would be able to change header levels? I think that might be doable in our case (would have to ask community).

Still, would be nice if that would be configurable somehow (per prefix maybe?).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I don't see any discussions on the Polish page that you linked.

Nux (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Enabling subscribe action in Wikipedia namespace"

Indentation completely broken

4
Summary by Bowler the Carmine

I mixed this tool up with another tool

Bowler the Carmine (talkcontribs)

This tool does not auto-indent, as expected from a tool to reply to comments on talk pages. I always have to go back and fix my indentation manually, which means that at present this tool confers no benefit over simple source editing.

Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

It does auto-indent. Can you link to an example comment where it didn't do that? Perhaps you found a bug, or perhaps you were actually using a different tool than the one this page is about.

Bowler the Carmine (talkcontribs)
Matma Rex (talkcontribs)

Ability to outdent

3
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Blaze Wolf (talkcontribs)

Hello! So recently, I often reply to comments and then it starts to get too deep. When this happens I end up having to go into the source editor and add the outdent template to the start of my reply (possibly with the parameter with the number of colons, depending on how deep it got). Maybe this could be integrated into the reply tool, with a button allowing you to outdent your reply, optionally with the parameter of the number of colons. I don't have a mockup of how I think this would look like (i'm not an artist and never intend on becoming one) so hopefully I'm able to get my point across like this.

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

Auto-outdent-template seems a reasonably uncontroversion automation. When it gets too deep, the reply tool could automatically insert an outdent template. We'd just need to decide on the wrap threshold.

Bowler the Carmine (talkcontribs)

I always outdent once posts exceed eight indentations deep. Eight indentations, in my experience, is the maximum indentation level where comments are still fairly easy to read on mobile.

Reply to "Ability to outdent"
ExcarnateSojourner (talkcontribs)

I find it difficult to see the boundaries between consecutive comments when there are several at the same indentation level unless each starts with a bullet point. Since the reply tool does not have an option to start my reply with a bullet point (without increasing the indentation level more than necessary), I have stopped using it on the English Wiktionary. ExcarnateSojourner (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Jeff G. (talkcontribs)

@ExcarnateSojourner: Bullets are not meant for that purpose, see en:WP:THREAD. Each comment should end with a signature. Alternatively, please try reading diffs.

Valereee (talkcontribs)

Each thread ends with a sig, but those aren't as easy to see as an indent or a bullet is. So when there a multiple replies to a single comment, you're scanning along looking for a sig. A bullet is easy to see, and I too would find it helpful if I could add one without changing the indent level.

2601:647:CC00:15:F90C:8414:7193:83DA (talkcontribs)

I agree; it's difficult to distinguish parse message threads without some visual separation or other que (such as bullets). ~The-erinaceous-one

Reply to "Bullet point replies"

Auto-converting links to wikilinks

3
Johannnes89 (talkcontribs)

Hi, I'm using the reply-tool for more than a year now (first as a beta feature, now as a global default). Recently I noticed a change which I don't really like:

When inserting a difflink (e.g. ) everything works as it used to. But when inserting a regular link to a wiki page (e.g. ) the reply tool is automatically converting it to a wiki link (e.g. metawiki:User:Johannnes89) even if I want the link to be displayed the same way as the difflink.

Is there a way to disable (or at least revert) this auto-converting @Whatamidoing (WMF)? The same problem also applies to the „new topic“-tool.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

You want to add a link (e.g., to your userpage on Meta-Wiki), and you paste in the whole URL. It converts it to a normal internal link. You sometimes want the whole URL instead. Is that correct?

If so, then either switch to the source mode to paste in the URL, or use your computer's "Paste and Match Style" option. That will give you a nowiki'd copy of the URL (like this: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Johannnes89 ). Backspace over the last character, re-type it, and press the space bar. That will turn it back into a working link (like this: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Johannnes89 ).

Johannnes89 (talkcontribs)

Thanks, that's what I want tot do. I'm using the source mode but it's still converting links.

The „paste and match style“-option works. And I figured out another way: Instead of pasting the link directly to the textbox, using the „add link“-button, choosing „external site“ and then pasting the copied link also stops auto converting :)

Reply to "Auto-converting links to wikilinks"

Parts of the text are erased or scrambled

10
85.250.228.85 (talkcontribs)

I tried this feature several times. It works great for short texts, but when writing a long reply parts of the texts sometimes disappear completely or get scrambled. This can he very frustrating. I use the feature in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Thanks and cheers, Ithamar 85.250.228.85 17:33, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Are you using the "visual" mode, or the wikitext "source" mode?

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

I got this today in "source" mode (without special chars installed, vanilla installation, writign in plain English). When I tried to paste the title of a WP article for a wkilink, it pasted the formatted title, complete with font and underline, and then the editing field messily and stopped being editable, with deteriorating function. I tried switching to visual mode and back; I couldn't switch. It also looked as if it had lost some of my text, which I copy-pasted back from the unchanged preview. But then the text shifted and it was pasted in the wrong place... In the end I saved it and edited the comment in a seperate edit.

I have previously had intermittent problems copy-pasting into the reply field from other tabs, including from the HTML and from the URL bar. Since I do this all the time, it's very noticable. I paste selections with middle-mouse-button clicks and CTRL-C CTRL-V, and both would not-work simultaneously.

I also often copy-paste from earlier posts to the talk page. I'd like to convert such pasted text to wikisource without prompting when I'm using the source editor; the delay is long even without the pop-up. The most common think I copy-[aste is a username of someone I"m replying to; I've noticed that I have to include a non-marked-up character before their wikilinked username (i.e. " WhatamIdoing") in order to get the option of pasting the linked name instead of plain text. This one is reliably reproducible.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Does this problem seem to appear after copying and pasting? See phab:T319090 for some links to previous bug reports. Also, do you have the GoogleTrans gadget installed? Do you have this problem in safemode?

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

Sorry for the slow response, and that apallingly ill-proofread post of mine. It does appear after copying and pasting, it does sound similar to a lot of those bug reports, and if it happens again I'll try to reduce it to something like the solid bug report at phab:T302147. I did nto have GoogleTrans installed; I may have had the "Content Translation" beta feature enabled. I will try it with safemode if I see the problem again.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This happened to me again yesterday. I was copying and pasting names from other websites. The devs said that if I can catch it again, the thing to do is to open the "Web console" and send them the error messages (feel free to e-mail me; sometimes they contain URLs or other information that you'd rather keep private). In Chrome, it looks like you go to View > Developer > JavaScript Console; in Firefox, it's Tools > Browser Tools > Browser Console.

Pbsouthwood, this tip might help you track down that bug, too.

Pbsouthwood (talkcontribs)

Where do I find "Tools"?

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

It’s in the menu bar, which I think is always visible on macOS, but usually not on other operating systems. Pressing Alt or F10 should reveal it. (If your Firefox is English, pressing Alt+T directly opens the Tools menu; other languages may have other hotkeys. However, Alt and F10 are as far as I know language-independent.)

Tol (talkcontribs)

Something similar just happened to me: this edit just now. I didn't copy/paste; I just typed in "Yep; that's it!" in source mode and it spat out "p; that's it!e". The preview also had the mangled text, but I only noticed after I pressed Ctrl+Enter.

Reply to "Parts of the text are erased or scrambled"

Missed special chars.

16
Summary by PPelberg (WMF)

T249072: Add support in toolbar for special characters within DiscussionTools

Dušan Kreheľ (talkcontribs)

The tool doesn't have a special char box with example "–", "€", no-break space or another.

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

hi @Dušan Kreheľ – you're right. Currently, the Reply Tool does not offer the special characters box/toolbar that the VisualEditor offers.

Can you please share how not having access to the special character box/toolbar within the Reply Tool has impacted you? Asked in another way: can you share what you use the special character box/toolbar for in the VisualEditor?

Dušan Kreheľ (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF): I like using:

  • "–" – Dash
  • " " – No-break space

plus in Slovak:

  • "„“" – Quotation mark
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Dušan Kreheľ (talkcontribs)

It would be maybe nice. But for me as a programmer, it's not an obstacle to use the "reply" tool.

It might be good to have statistics at the earliest what characters users use.

Ping: @Whatamidoing (WMF).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Presumably that would depend on which language they were writing in. Amire80, has the Language team ever looked into this question (which characters are most used, or most needed-but-missing)?

Aaharoni-WMF (talkcontribs)

No, we haven't looked at it systematically.

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

Ouch. As someone who edits in diacritic-ridden languages, mostly using an English-optimized keyboard, that could make it more difficult for me to write non-English replies. I've had long discussions in French on Commons. This is also a problem offwiki. I have non-WP-specific tools that give me diacritics and special chars for the scripts I write in (including IPA), but on-wiki I often use the intenal tools for proximity. I wish compose keys worked reliably, it would make code-switching far easier.

Could this be done using " Alt-Shift-S for 'Publish' "-like keyboard shortcuts (see topic above)?

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I believe that they're hoping to add the visual editor's special character palette to the [reply] tool in the coming weeks/months. If you'd like to have a look at it (NB the first section varies per wiki), then try adding lines 7–15 from m:User:Whatamidoing (WMF)/global.js to your own global.js page. (And then make a note to take those lines back out in a few weeks, so you don't end up with two of them.)

Dušan Kreheľ (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF) Widget ok. Design: If he scrolls down the page, there is a border on the right side of the widget. Let there be a border between the widget and the text, and it will also match the slider placed opposite.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I think NAyoub (WMF) will be interested in this detail about the borders.

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

Thank you, WAID, I've added that scriptbit. Unlike the original, I can select one "language" submenu and then scroll to another (i.e. selection "Latin" or "Often used" and scrolling to "Runes"), which was a bit unexpected and caused me momentary confusion.

This user interface might be worth looking at as a way to improve access to special chars; it chunks the special chars, which takes advantage of the fact that an editor will usually want only German special chars, or French ones, or IPA ones, or logic-symbols-related ones. It's a lot faster.

Relatedly, selecting "[underlined "A"]>Language" inserts this text: <span dir="ltr" lang="de">Language</span> I'm not sure what this is for. On en-wiki, there are "lang" and "transl" templates, which do left-to-right or right-to-left as needed.

Dušan Kreheľ (talkcontribs)

@HLHJ: We don't have the global template. Next way, know the user about this extra template? Use the extra addon?

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

The Croatian and Slovak Wikipedias do not have "transl" and "lang" templates? The reply tool could do different things on different wikis.

I don't speak Slovak or Czech, regrettably. I speak German; you can answer me in German, if you like.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The "Language" item adds the HTML markup for the language you're writing in. Dann weiß mein Computer, dass ich diesen Satz auf Deutsch geschrieben habe.

It is very similar to Template:Lang, except that it works at 100% of the wikis, and not just the ~50% of wikis that have the template locally.

HLHJ (talkcontribs)

That makes sense, the templates are just easier to type. Thanks! HLHJ (talk) 00:02, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Reply to "Missed special chars."

Need preview and diff functionality

2
77.190.103.245 (talkcontribs)

For some actions, like replying with something that contains uses of templates, we need preview functionality. Yes, the "edit source" is still there, but to the "seldom, but long-time" user, it's not even obvious that there are two buttons - the "edit source" button may even have scrolled out of view. Let us switch to "edit source" mode from the reply mode.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

The reply tool has itself a source mode, which contains a (live) preview. The visual mode doesn’t contain an extra preview, since it’s already WYSIWYG – if you see wiki syntax in visual mode, it will appear that way after saving (it’ll be <nowiki>d). There’s no diff in either mode, but neither do I see a reason for it: the difference will be that your comment will be added, existing parts of the page won’t be modified (unless there’s a bug in the tool).

Reply to "Need preview and diff functionality"
208.98.223.22 (talkcontribs)

If I want to edit a section, I just want to edit the section. I do not want the editor to get in the way and decide I am making a reply. I do not want the editor to decide what my summary should be. It breaks my workflow.


And *this* talk gives me hives. I will never use it again. (Also note: I am logged in, but apparently not here…)

Nick Moyes (talkcontribs)

I don't think the 'reply' function is appropriate if all you want to do is simply edit some pre-existing text in a thread, rather than reply to others at an appropriate point. Of course, you still have your original option to "Edit source" - which is still there at the end of the heading for each thread. For many people, simple 'replying' with this tool should be a lot easier than it once was for us 'oldies', and I, for one, find myself using it all the time.

Reply to "Frustrating"

Special Characters/Symbols like „ & “ are missing: ?

1
2003:ED:B742:9CC1:69C4:CAD8:D65C:983A (talkcontribs)

~~~~

Reply to "Special Characters/Symbols like „ & “ are missing: ?"