Talk:Echo (Notifications)

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Jan Ainali (WMSE) (talkcontribs)

It would be awesome to get notified when media I uploaded to Commons is being used in an article somewhere. Sort of like (or perhaps already solved by) page link.

Jan Ainali (WMSE) (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Another notification"
Subfader (talkcontribs)

2 years later there is still no watchlist support?

I plan to add Echo on my wiki, but this will be the first thing users will miss.

Reply to "Watchlist notifications"
Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi all. This page was recently converted as part of the first day of the Flow/LQT conversion process.

Please let us know any feedback, suggestions, or concerns, either here or at the main announcement topic.

I've heard one comment about there being too many notifications sent, and would like to get more feedback on that.

Thanks.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Bug filed for getting too many notifications - phab:T98996 - they were only meant to show up for threads that we still had as "Unread" in our Special:NewMessages list. Apologies for the noise.

Reply to "LQT->Flow conversion"
Alex Stacey (talkcontribs)

Hi

I'm a bit confused whether I should install the Extension:Echo or if there's a new version being developed with the "Notifications" name. I can't find an extensions page for that. Any ideas?

Thanks

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Those are just different names for the same software. "Notifications" is just the informal-but-practical name, because "Echo" is so 'code-word-ish' for end-users.  :-)

Reply to "How can I install this extension?"

Mentions require signature with timestamp?

8
Summary by Nemo bis

Mention depends on message tracking, which is hacky and muddy (checks timestamps and other criteria) and is contantly being worked on for several bugs.

Darenwelsh (talkcontribs)

I've been testing this out on our corporate wiki (currently MW 1.23.2). It seems like for a mention to work, it has to include the wiki-link to the user page I'm mentioning followed by a wiki link to my user page AND a timestamp. Is that correct? I'm curious if it would be possible to make use of the functions that determine who made an edit and when (like what is used for the Recent Changes page) instead of relying on a signature. In my tests, even if I use both usernames in links (the "to" and "from"), but don't include a timestamp, it seems to not be recognized by Echo as a mention event.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

Yes, it's correct. There are also other checks, for instance if you remove a line then it's not considered a message so the mention doesn't go out.

Darenwelsh (talkcontribs)

Could you explain the reasoning behind using the link to user page and timestamp in the signature instead of the methods that are used to create Recent Changes?

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

What are "the methods that are used to create Recent Changes"?

Darenwelsh (talkcontribs)

My point is that for every page revision, there is a record of who made the revision and when it happened. So why not use that information instead of relying on the signature? The way that it is working now, if your signature doesn't include a link to your user page, it doesn't work.

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

The signature is "only" used to (help) determine whether an edit is a new message or not. The extension checks the edit in the moment it's saved, it doesn't parse the whole talk page looking for new messages if this is what you were "afraid" of.

This was decided in the specifications: Echo_(Notifications)/Feature_requirements#User Mention (I didn't make them).

Darenwelsh (talkcontribs)

I understand that the four tildes which generate the signature are used to signify that the revision is meant to be recognized by Echo as a notification. I could see how a user might want to correct a typo and would not want that showing up as a notification. I'm sure it could be overwhelming if every edit on that discussion page showed up as a notification.

That said, when you rely on using four tildes for this feature, it seems to require that the user's signature include a link to their user page. But if someone using MediaWiki with Echo chooses to use a signature that does not link to their user page, then Echo will not recognize those edits for notifications. An example of this: A user on SemanticMediawiki.org might set their signature to link to their user page on Mediawiki.org.

Similarly, I don't see why Echo requires a timestamp in the edit to qualify for notification. When the page is saved, the revision table is appended with an entry including rev_timestamp and rev_user. Why not just use that?

Why not just determine some minimum criteria based on number of characters added to the page or use some set of regular expressions to test that it was not just a typo correction?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I believe the reason it checks for a tilde-generated signature and timestamp, are to avoid accidental pings during section-archives, or other types of thread-refactoring, e.g. here I moved a single thread to my talkpage archive.

I'll ask if the devs there were any other rationales for relying upon this trigger. [Edit: Confirmed. That is/was the main reason.]

Thanks Nemo, I didn't know about the no-line-removal criteria. I've added that to the Notes at Echo (Notifications)/Feature requirements#User Mention.

Reply to "Mentions require signature with timestamp?"

More than 2,000 Notifications, will start to be removed

4
Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/159413/ - This update adds a script to delete any Notifications that are older than the most recent 2,000.

Up until now, they were stored indefinitely, meaning that some users have many thousands of read Notifications adding up in the database. 2,000 was chosen, because it is the number of Notifications that the "mark all as read" button effects.

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This change is mainly intended to reduce a performance bottleneck.

It will also enable future separation (perhaps even filtering) of the different types of Notification. There's a tangential discussion about some feature-requests related to this, at en:WP:VPI#Can we have a color scheme for the notifications count, please, and, if not, perhaps some other color than red? currently.

Ricordisamoa (talkcontribs)

What if I want to preserve important notifications and delete the newest instead?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

For indefinite preservation, I think the best option would probably be to enable the "email" preference for whichever notification types you want to keep records for.

Is there a particular type(s) of notifications that you're thinking of? Giving a few examples almost always helps. :)

Reply to "More than 2,000 Notifications, will start to be removed"
Kephir (talkcontribs)

Using web browsers for quite some time, I grew accustomed to having blue colour mean "I can click on this" and gray to mean "I cannot click on this". But here, it is precisely the opposite. I spent half a minute frantically clicking "Messages" to read the notification before it occurred to me to click on the other link. Who is responsible for this idiocy?

Quiddity (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I filed that as bugzilla:69929. I'll check to see what the status is. Thanks for the nudge.

Kephir (talkcontribs)

Also, when I get a notification on the "Alerts" tab, the "Alerts" tab should show up by default after clicking the notification button. No-brainer, really. Right now it always shows "Messages" by default.

Reply to "Colours of "Messages" and "Alerts" tabs"
Danmichaelo (talkcontribs)

Is there a JS API to add notifications? I'm maintaining a gadget that shows a message in my personal bar if there are any articles in a speedy deletion candidate category. It would be great if it could use Echo to show a notification instead. Is that possible?

Reply to "JavaScript API"

Is it possible to use Echo to be personally notified about...

7
Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)
  1. special community initiatives starting, such as a "Backlog of the week"-drive (on it.wp watchlist notices were introduced just recently and anyway site-wide notices are not really welcome);
  2. specific templates being added to an article, such as "Unreferenced"?

Both the requests are from the Italian Wikipedia community. Thanks,

Elitre (talkcontribs)

Bumping this. Also adding:

  1. what if wikiprojects newsletters, instead than being delivered to single users, were delivered just to the talk page of the project itself while users only get a personal notification that this happened?
  2. does any wiki use a template to notify several users at a time? i.e. something like {{Echo|Elitre|Quiddity|Ironholds|...}}?

Thanks!

Elitre (talkcontribs)
  1. Are there plans to let users choose which pages they want to get notifications for?
Quiddity (talkcontribs)

Ack, sorry Elitre, I thought I'd replied to this thread ages ago.

  • Re: special community initiatives - It's not currently possible to send Notifications to thousands of users at once. (there's a hard limit of 100.)
  • It's not currently possible to use Echo for that second idea, but it's an interesting one. That's the kind of thing that Flow might eventually solve (because it's more of a workflow&collaboration idea, rather than a "messaging" idea)
    • However, there's Svick's system of "CleanupListingByCat", eg Jainism which might be adaptable by Italian code gurus?


  • Template to ping multiple users:
    • Enwiki has a few. Basically anything that strings together userpage links will work. See en:Template:Reply to, and also the "Related templates" section at the bottom there.
  • Newsletters delivered to a central page -
    • Current best method is to use Extension:MassMessage to send a short talkpage message, pointing to the central location. That way readers can archive or read at leisure, and it advertises the info-source to other talkpage-followers.
    • See also Extension:Newsletter for some closely-related ideas about exactly this.


  • Choosing which pages users get notifications for -
    • There's a request for bugzilla:44787 ("Allow excluding pages from the link notifications").
    • There's also a User blacklist currently implemented (for bots etc) to prevent Mention notifications.
    • I don't think there are requests for excluding other notification types, if you were thinking of something else?
Elitre (talkcontribs)

Thanks, Quiddity! What about pages I didn't create but I want to receive notifications for?

Quiddity (talkcontribs)

Hmmm, interesting idea! I think the 2 notification-types of

  • Page links
  • Page reviews

would be specifically what you mean?

Again, I'm not sure if this crosses over into a requested Flow-feature (rather than an Echo-feature)... It's very similar to some of the workflows that are being considered as potential parts of Flow (eg. finding out that a page on my watchlist was tagged for AfD, or a page connected to one of my wikiprojects was submitted to FeaturedArticleCandidates, or etc). We're/They're still trying to find the balance of how to use Echo most effectively, but without turning it into something too feature-heavy, at the same time as brainstorming how Flow could work. As always, more thoughts and suggestions would be great! :)

Danmichaelo (talkcontribs)

There's also an interesting template on Wikidata: d:Template:Ping_project, which notifies a list of users without showing the list in the message.

Reply to "Is it possible to use Echo to be personally notified about..."

Create a notification for all users

4
Summary by Ricordisamoa
GenJack (talkcontribs)

Hello, i own a private Wiki and have a question for you guys: is it actually possible for admins/bureaucrats to create individual notifications that reach all users? This would be a nice feature to inform the community about the important stuff goin' on (like important discussions, new guidelines, elections etc.) regards, genjack

Nemo bis (talkcontribs)

No, it isn't. Such a feature has been developed as Extension:MassMessage, which doesn't use Echo yet because Echo has never figured out a way to be integrated with other stuff.

Legoktm (talkcontribs)

What you want is currently tracked as bugzilla:56361.

WhatamIdoing (talkcontribs)

I think this is a great idea. I'd love to be able to get messages to only groups of users, as well, like "To all admins, the deletion policy has changed significantly" (or whatever that particular community believes is appropriate to announce).

Reply to "Create a notification for all users"