User talk:Yurik

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What are the 'advantages' of using mapframe with I18n?

2
JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Yurik,

I'm writing up an update for the Map Improvements 2018 project page that talks about the coming I18n release. One section, on use cases, tries to break down what the advantages and disadvantages of using mapframe with I18n are compared to the current method for basic locator maps of foreign cities. But I'm slightly unclear on just what users are doing now when they do this (how do they make those graphics?). Would you say:

  • Is it easier to just add a mapframe map for a foreign city or country compared to what is done now? I.e., can the process be streamlined so that all users have to do is plug in the coordinates, vs. whatever they do now? Or is it pretty streamlined now?
  • Besides basic locator maps (e.g., this type of thing), what would you say the use cases are for mapframe or, I guess, maplink, with I18n?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

I think there are several things here that shouldn't be conflated:

  • i18n of the base map allows users to see the map localized to their needs, and it doesn't matter where they use it - in a <maplink/mapframe>, in a locator map via the <graph> tag, or in a Wikidata Query search results. It benefits them all.
  • The <maframe> is orthogonal to the localization efforts of the base map. It allows editors to insert an interactive map into a page, and draw a limited set of things on it. The "static" methods (<graph> tag) has much more flexibility in terms of the actual drawing - any visuals on top of the map. The <mapframe> has interactivity, and ease-of-use - inserting <mapframe> does not require a complex graph template that very few people understand. But mapframe/maplink are much more limited in terms of what they can present.
  • Lastly, there are "classical" locator maps - simple SVG-style images with very few shapes/labels, that simply illustrate basic country/region shapes, without any details, without any interactivity, in a single language, and without a good ability to draw things on top of them (there are hacks that allow it, but those are not very stable/portable). This method is the most flexible, but also the most time consuming -- you can draw anything you want - it's an image.
Reply to "What are the 'advantages' of using mapframe with I18n?"

How much translation data is available in OSM?

2
JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Yurik, As you know, we're getting close to releasing the internationalization feature (T112948). I want to be able to tell wiki users just what this will mean for them. To a large degree, that will be dependent on the data that is available from OSM. In other words, we can provide the capability to show a map with labels in your language, but if OSM doesn't have labels in your language, then it won't display (unless you add it).

I know you're experienced in these areas, so I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

  • General question: in your experience, how much translation does OSM have? Just country and capital names and major tourist attractions? Or does it go much further? (Obviously, the biggest issue is between different scripts: I can learn that "Rue" = "Street," but if I'm looking at Chinese characters for the street names, I'm lost.)
  • Is there a way to preview how various maps would look in a different language? Changing my "preferred language" setting in openstreetmap.org, doesn't work. I see that I can click on individual map features; is there a more general way? And is openstreetmap.org actually showing everything it has?
  • Is there a way to query the system somehow and get figures on this? E.g., to know how much of each language has been added for each country? Or to say for map Paris or Rome, what is the amount of non-French and non-Italian language content available?

It's important because I don't want to oversell this feature to users and then have them be disappointed with the results. Thanks so much for your help.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

Hi @JMatazzoni (WMF), The easiest way to check how a certain name:xx is distributed is using taginfo. Here's all tags containing "name". name:en is the most common, with 2.6 million tags, and if you click it and click map tab, you will see it's fairly well distributed.

But the most other languages are far from it - name:ru, 2nd most common, seems to be only present in the eastern Europe - probably because editors there tend to add it together with name.

In general, several map companies have said they have to rely on Wikidata for internationalization. The process is fairly simple - just use Wikidata tag to lookup the name if its not present.

There is no way AFAIK to preview it, at least not on OSM site. OSM is using a fairly dated tech, and cannot easily show multiple languages.

Reply to "How much translation data is available in OSM?"
JMatazzoni (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Yurik

I'm Joe, the product manager of Collaboration team. We've been asked to step in during the next few months to work on maps—in response to the winning Wishlist item, though our work probably won't be limited to Wishlist. I wanted to say hi, and thank you for reaching out with advice on T141335. I know the maps stack is in some large part your baby, so your participation as we try to make some fixes will be a big help.

This engagement was a sudden shift for Collab team, so we're working now with the former Maps team members to nail down our goals and plans—to gauge what we can do in the limited amount of time we have, and how best to stabilize the tech so it won't need too much maintenance when we roll off again. As soon as we have a better sense of where we're headed we'll make an announcement to the community. We'll try to say at least something this week. But in the meantime I just wanted to make contact and let you know that maps activity is heating up (at least for a time). Cheers.

Reply to "Thanks for your advice"
Robin Owain (WMUK) (talkcontribs)

Hi. I note that you added the licencing bit on Help:Map Data article. There's a question regarding this on the Talk Page. If you could chip in, it would be good, and wheels could start moving. Many thanks!

Reply to "licencing"
Rousseaulambertlp (talkcontribs)

Hi Yurik,

I think you are the main contributor for the .map pages, that's why I'm writing you.

My name Louis-Philippe R. Lambert and I work for the Meteorological Service of Canada with Miguel Tremblay that you might know.

We are working on importing our climatic observations for many different stations on .map and .tab pages on Wiki commons. We did a first example for Bagotville. The problem with the .map page is that we can't export directly the code and read it in a GIS software. This is because the GeoJSON part of the page is not in the top-level fields. GIS software can't read the GeoJSON if it's in the Data field... FYI, I'm using QGIS to read my GeoJSON.

We also can't add top-level fields in the .map page, it gives us an error because it's not expecting more than the 6 defined fields.

It would be very import for us to be able to display the GeoJSON on .map pages and retrieve the code to be able to directly import it in GIS software. The solution we can think about:

  1. Would it be possible to remove the Data field and simply have the GeoJSON field on the top level fields? This way GIS software would simply ignore the specific Wiki tag and read the GeoJSON fields.
   {
   "license": "CC0-1.0",
   "description": { "en": "Manhattan Neighborhoods" },
   "sources": "http://example.com and Data page",
   "zoom": 11,
   "latitude": 40.8,
   "longitude": -74,
   "type": "FeatureCollection",
   "features": [
       {
           "type": "Feature",
           "properties": {
               "title": {"en":"Alphabet City", "ru":"Алфабет-сити"}
           },
           "geometry": {
               "type": "Polygon",
               "coordinates": [[
                   [-73.980356454849,40.730425548938]
   }
  1. Could we copy the GeoJSON fields on the top levels part so that GIS software can read the file and we could have a copy of the GeoJSON file in the Data field. This involves duplication of the GeoJSON data...
   {
   "license": "CC0-1.0",
   "description": { "en": "Manhattan Neighborhoods" },
   "sources": "http://example.com and Data page",
   "zoom": 11,
   "latitude": 40.8,
   "longitude": -74,
   "data": {
       "type": "FeatureCollection",
       "features": [
           {
               "type": "Feature",
               "properties": {
                   "title": {"en":"Alphabet City", "ru":"Алфабет-сити"}
               },
               "geometry": {
                   "type": "Polygon",
                   "coordinates": [[
                   	[-73.980356454849,40.730425548938],...]
           },
   "type": "FeatureCollection",
   "features": [
       {
           "type": "Feature",
           "properties": {
               "title": {"en":"Alphabet City", "ru":"Алфабет-сити"}
           },
           "geometry": {
               "type": "Polygon",
               "coordinates": [[
                   [-73.980356454849,40.730425548938]
   }

Can you think of another solution?

Thanks and have a nice day

LP

Reply to "Top-level fields for .map pages"
Zache (talkcontribs)

Just notifying you before the example template is deleted from enwiki. This is for replicating the phab:T168601

1.) Go to map

- https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malline:MapFrame/Seminaarinm%C3%A4en_rakennukset-WLM

2.) Open the map by clicking it

3.) Click some building so the popup will open

4.) The popup will contain template :w:en:en:Template:Kartographer_WLM_pin which it contains some information about the item. Bug is that the template is always rendered in enwiki. Even if the original map is in some other wiki. 

Reply to "MapFrame Sparql -render bug"

Template:Graph:Chart can x axis values have angle in bar chart?

3
Ah3kal (talkcontribs)

Hello Yurik!

I used a graph in this transcription in el.wikisource: https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%B2%CE%B5%CE%B6%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B1_%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC._%CE%95%CF%85%CF%81%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AE%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BF_%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%85%CF%87%CF%8E%CE%BD_1-50#.CE.93.CE.B9.CE.B1_.CF.84.CE.B1_.CE.86.CF.81.CE.B8.CF.81.CE.B1

The values in x-axis overlap. Is it possible to modify the labels to be at an angle (as in the graph in the image)? Or if not, is there any other solution?

Thank you in advance!

Yurik (talkcontribs)
Ah3kal (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Template:Graph:Chart can x axis values have angle in bar chart?"
Joel Amos (talkcontribs)

Hey Yurik,

I've added 2016 state GDP data here, and I attempted to update Template:Graph:US Map state highlight (and the Wikipedia equivalent) by changing initYear to 2016, but that simple change seemed to break the initial display before one presses play. So I've reverted my edits in expectance that you'll handle the change.

Another point to note is that I am currently unable to click onto 2016 without creating a range. Might be worth looking into. Cheers!

Yurik (talkcontribs)

Hi Joel, I reverted it to init=2016 -- it seems to look fine - I think it is simply that it needs some time to refresh. The 2016 range click is a bug, I need to figure out how to do it better.

Reply to "2016 data ready for Template:Graph:US Map state highlight"
Ah3kal (talkcontribs)

Hello again, Yurik

Is possible to have a time frame for the data? Some times there exists a distant value, and the inclusion of this value, because of the interpolation creates a false impression of population stability. E.g. see the graph in https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%8D%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B7_%CE%9C%CE%B5%CF%83%CF%83%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82 . There is a 150+ years gap from the first value (1689) to the next (1844), during which time, the population certainly wasn't stable (major events happened that had heavy impact in the population:e.g. unsuccesfull greek revolution in 1770, greek war of independence 1821, etc.). It would be more accurate and useful from an encyclopedic point of view to have the choice to frame the graph in a certain time, e.g. >1840, intstead of projecting values for 150 years, or removing a sourced value from the distant past. Is this possible?

Thank you in advance

Yurik (talkcontribs)

Hi, how would you want to display it in that case?

Ah3kal (talkcontribs)
Yurik (talkcontribs)

Done - use the new "filter" expression (much more powerful than simple from/to) -- e.g. filter=datum.year >= 1800 && datum.year < 1900

Ah3kal (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much!

Reply to "Graph:Population history again"

Strange line behaviour in Template:Graph:Population history

3
Ah3kal (talkcontribs)

Hello Yurik,

First of all a big Thank you for your amazing work with graphs!

I'd like to report a strange behaviour in Template:Graph:Population history, where a connecting line turns in the wrong direction. An example of this can be found at w:el:Χρήστης:Ah3kal/πρόχειρο 10. The line connecting 1881 to 1891 is extending beyond 1891 to 1900 and then turns back. Thank you for your time.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

This is part of the interpolation algorithm called "monotone". I added a new parameter called "interpolate", and updated Greek wiki and your example with it. interpolate=monotone solves your problem. Also, I would highly recommend using shared tabular data on Commons instead of hardcoding them in the template call. This way someone can update the population, and all graphs in all wikis will be automatically updated. Lastly, I'm running for the board, please support and let others know :) Thanks!!

Ah3kal (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much! Hardcoded data were use only to highlight this behaviour in a stable way since the original graph used data from wikidata and the value for 1700 was just for experimentation. I had allready supported you :) Good luck with it. Regards!

Reply to "Strange line behaviour in Template:Graph:Population history"