User talk:Yurik/Wikidata OSM questions

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Ambiguity between towns and their municipalities

4
Sabas88 (talkcontribs)

Some users are asking how to deal with towns which are seat of local government (mainly for admin_level=8). Wikipedia generally didn't have different id for the city and the government, but in OSM there's a place=town and a administrative relation.

Initial discussions lean to add the wikidata tag to the relation.

NMaia (talkcontribs)

Would it be a problem if both the node and the relation had the same Wikidata ID? I don't think so.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

If possible, I would prefer to reduce information duplication as much as possible. Copies often lead to stale data and errors. If there is a relation that includes a node, it might make sense to keep just one wp/wd tag. On the other hand, Wikipedia at this point only uses "areas" and "lines" (both of which could be generated from a way or a relation), so tagging something on a node doesn't really affect it.

Sabas88 (talkcontribs)

The node usually is added to the relation with the role admin_centre in various countries.

Reply to "Ambiguity between towns and their municipalities"
Janjko (talkcontribs)

Hi, I don't use Wikipedia often, so I don't know if this is the place you wanted me to talk about these topics. Anyway, here are some things I wanted to say.

There should be only one OSM object (relation, way or a node) with a unique wikidata=* tag. You can't have several Danube rivers, there is only one. We should decide which OSM object should be representative of the whole feature. With rivers, it should probably be the relation that has all the centerlines ant the tag type=waterway. So you should put the wikidata ID of Danube on the Danube river relation , and nowhere else.

Tunnels should have their wikidata=* tags on areas that have the tag man_made=tunnel, like the Gotthard Base Tunnel . That tag is not used much, but roads going through the tunnel are not the actual tunnel. That's why they can use tunnel:wikidata=*. You can have more of those.

That means that the Disney park shouldn't have that Wikidata ID. That specific park is not described in that Wikipedia page. It's just the same design. So you can be creative and put something like design:wikidata=* or something like that.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

@Janjko, thanks! I'm ok to have this discussion wherever it would reach the most interested people :)

How should rules differ between wikidata and wikipedia tags? For example, many small cities in England do not have their own English article. Instead, a city is described in a section of some other article, together with other locations. Yet, there is a wikidata entry specifically for that town. Plus, some other wiki, like Swedish, might have an stub article specifically for that city. What should we do with tags?

I think the best solution would be to actually get rid of the wikipedia tags alltogether (because they simply duplicate wikidata), but also add a new "described in" tag (not sure about the actual tag name). This tag will only exist when there is no good article in the location's language. What do you think?

Janjko (talkcontribs)

No, getting rid of the wikipedia=* tag is not going to happen, a lot of people use it. But we can just make it obsolete. If it's too much work, we can ignore it.

And about the problem with towns which have articles that are not just about them. Wikidata also has this problem, and they produced several properties:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P361

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P527

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1269

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P921

I think we should find the right one, and use the same notation.

Yurik (talkcontribs)

@Janjko people use the "result" of that field, not the field itself to store data that is different from other data. I think at some point we should make that field automatic - given a wikidata field, wikipedia field will be automatically created, but you won't edit it. In other words, think of wikidata field as the new wikipedia field, but language neutral.

I like your idea about the wikidata properties - perhaps we should start a wider community discussion about these approaches. What do you think would be the good venue to organize it?

Janjko (talkcontribs)

I think a Wikidata tag refinement proposal on OSM wiki would be best, something like the Power generation refinement . We can form a big proposal with new tags and rules, and then when we are satisfied, present it to OSM Tag mailing list.

Yurik (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Answering some questions"
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