UCOSP Spring 2012/Standups/03 Feb

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The 03 Feb stand up started with trying to organize a Skype in #Wikimedia-mobile, but was exceptionally laggy and stuttered. So we fell back to IRC, in #Wiktionary-mobile to avoid disrupting the main channel.

[10:16] <GroggyPanda> hello
[10:16] <amgine> \o/
[10:17] <sheaclare> hi, all
[10:17] <GroggyPanda> can someone take up the responsibility of logging this conversation and having it publicly accessible later?
[10:17] <amgine> Okay, I'll keep an eye on the other channel if Tony can make it.
[10:17] <amgine> I'm logging.
[10:17] <pfhayes> can we get ChanServ logging in this channel?
[10:17] <amgine> <points to Dale>
[10:18] <dlemieux> hello?
[10:18] <amgine> Okay, I think we should start with Dale for standups, actually.
[10:18] <GroggyPanda> amgine: okay :)
[10:18] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: chanserv usually doesn't do logging
[10:18] <pfhayes> i see
[10:18] <GroggyPanda> over there we got wm-bot logging
[10:18] <GroggyPanda> anyway
[10:18] <GroggyPanda> we now have friendly amgine-bot logging :)
[10:18] <dlemieux> okay sure, I can start
[10:19] <dlemieux> I was looking into how we can switch all the graphics in the app to be correct for Wiktionary
[10:19] <dlemieux> the app logo, the icon at the top, etc
[10:19] <dlemieux> And the big logo on the error page
[10:20] <dlemieux> So I have switched out the app icon, but there are still two more images to be replaced
[10:20] <GroggyPanda> dlemieux: how are you replacing them? 
[10:20] <pfhayes> i think this is something we need to be careful about making generic between projects
[10:20] <GroggyPanda> is there a particular commit I could look at?
[10:20] <GroggyPanda> +1
[10:20] <pfhayes> we want to have a system so that as we add wiktionary, wikiquote, etc… this is easy to swap out
[10:20] <GroggyPanda> so it is not painful keeping up-to-date with wikipedia-mobile
[10:21] <pfhayes> the project was initially built wikipedia-specific… i have noticed that as I have been merging in wikipedia updates
[10:21] <dlemieux> I removed the wikipedia icon and replaced with a wiktionary one
[10:21] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: anything particularly bad?
[10:21] <amgine> GPS.
[10:21] <pfhayes> well, a lot of my merges are just a giant s/wikipedia/wiktionary/
[10:22] <sheaclare> pfhayes: what does that mean?
[10:22] <pfhayes> replacing the word wikipedia with wiktionary
[10:22] <sheaclare> ohhhhhh ":%s/../"
[10:22] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: how are you merging?
[10:22] <sheaclare> haha
[10:22] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: are you rebasing or just doing merge?
[10:22] <pfhayes> merge
[10:23] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: it is somewhat controversial, but I suggest using rebase + merge.
[10:23] <GroggyPanda> will make things easier/less messier for you guys in the long run
[10:23] <pfhayes> how so?
[10:24] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: http://book.git-scm.com/4_rebasing.html
[10:24] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: it makes commit-history much cleaner
[10:25] <pfhayes> okay. it doesn't affect the issue with having to make wikipedia-> wiktionary changes as we merge in wikipedia updates, though, does it?
[10:25] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: it does - you won't have to do the same thing twice.
[10:25] <pfhayes> so far I have not had to repeat the same updates
[10:26] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: that's mostly because we've been keeping upstream history clean with rebase merges (or commits directly to master)
[10:26] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: try using any of the GUI git visualization tools to see how the history is - it'll be a confusing mess
[10:27] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: either way, try it out :)
[10:27] <pfhayes> okay
[10:27] <amgine> Okay, dlemieux: when it comes to standardizing the images/logos/branding, have you run across any blockers? 
[10:27] <dlemieux> Yep, two small things
[10:28] <pfhayes> i still think we want to make the process as fluid as possible for other sister projects. there are a lot of hard-coded wikipedia specific items in the codebase, such as raw wikipedia urls. and as dlemieux mentioned, changing resources is a manual process
[10:28] <dlemieux> 1) one of the images to replace is embedded in a sprite sheet
[10:28] <dlemieux> which I may need help editing to do it right
[10:28] <GroggyPanda> dlemieux: i'm currently killing that sprite-sheet and making all those images individual images
[10:29] <dlemieux> and it might help to have a better design for the missing page graphic than just putting the right half of the wiktionary logo
[10:29] <dlemieux> GroggyPanda: awesome, i will wait on that then
[10:29] <dlemieux> amgine: I asked in wikimedia-commons and odder said he did something for the wiktionary project, was that the guy you mentioned me talking with?
[10:30] <amgine> I have a new graphic provided by odder, yes. It's a replacement button, however, not a full logo.
[10:30] <amgine> <is trying to locate it.>
[10:30] <GroggyPanda> dlemieux: you guys could figure out what you want to do for the 404.html/500.html pages
[10:31] <GroggyPanda> dlemieux: and just go ahead replace it
[10:31] <GroggyPanda> instead of replacing just the logos
[10:32] <dlemieux> So make a new error page instead of reusing the wikipedia one?
[10:33] <GroggyPanda> dlemieux: if that's what you guys want to do, yes
[10:33] <dlemieux> okay, i will look into options for that :)
[10:33] <GroggyPanda> 'because that is how the wikipedia app does it' should never be an excuse :)
[10:33] <GroggyPanda> if you guys think we're doing something that'll make merging/rebasing harder, come talk to me
[10:33] <GroggyPanda> and i can usually fix that up to make it easier
[10:33] <GroggyPanda> (like the sprites)
[10:34] <amgine> <nods> dlemieux: did you have a #2?
[10:34] <dlemieux> 'because that is how the wikipedia app does it' is good for code re-use
[10:34] <dlemieux> amgine: only code reviews
[10:34] <dlemieux> but i can come back to a point on that after other people speak
[10:34] <amgine> Okay. Sheaclare: you're up.
[10:34] <sheaclare> hokety
[10:35] <sheaclare> so I got a button mounted in the second-level of the menu tree that brings the user back to the word of the day
[10:35] <sheaclare> one thing I noticed was that on any subsequent return (using my button or not), the spinner is frozen on the screen
[10:36] <GroggyPanda> sheaclare: did you check output from the logs? 
[10:36] <sheaclare> i'm not sure if that's already put into a bug report for wikipedia or what, because I didn't notice it until I was testing my solution
[10:36] <GroggyPanda> a frozen spinner usually means a  js error
[10:36] <sheaclare> I didn't see anything that looked exactly like it
[10:36] <GroggyPanda> sheaclare: did it just not spin or did it just stay there and never go away?
[10:36] <sheaclare> there was a bug report about some spinner problems like that in the emulator
[10:36] <sheaclare> both
[10:37] <sheaclare> if anyone hasn't merged my pull-request yet (maybe everyone) then can you see if that's a problem already?
[10:37] <dlemieux> i'm going to try to repro it now
[10:38] <sheaclare> dlemieux: "repro"… good word. 
[10:39] <sheaclare> I noticed the same JS error in the log that Dale said he and Patrick had already found
[10:39] <amgine> c/p please?
[10:39] * You are now known as Amgine
[10:39] <sheaclare> Amgine: "c/p" == ?
[10:39] <Amgine> copy and paste
[10:39] <dlemieux> sheaclare: this one?
[10:39] <dlemieux> Null reference to variable b in wm_toggle_section
[10:40] <sheaclare> 02-01 18:06:24.224: E/Web Console(452): TypeError: Result of expression 'b' [null] is not an object. at file:///android_asset/www/js/toggle.js:17
[10:40] <sheaclare> dlemieux: that's the one
[10:40] <sheaclare> but it shows up even when the spinner works as it should
[10:40] <pfhayes> yeah i've seen that one around
[10:41] <GroggyPanda> interesting that i don't see that wm_toggle_section being called
[10:41] <GroggyPanda> should investigate and see if it is dead code
[10:41] <pfhayes> i tried removing it, and then toggling open sections didn't work
[10:41] <Amgine> Okay, we'll leave that for now though: we know it's a blocker. 
[10:41] <Amgine> Pfhayes, you're up.
[10:41] <pfhayes> it looks like it's not referencing the actual wm_toggle_section javascript from the server
[10:42] <sheaclare> pfhayes: Yeah, I saw you'd made a //TODO item right before your call to that function
[10:42] <pfhayes> i have been maintaining the github repo, and as mentioned before there are a few difficulties with merging
[10:42] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: any sections particularly troublesome?
[10:43] <pfhayes> one annoying thing is that I moved the Android java package from org.wikipedia to org.wiktionary… but if the two projects are never going to interact then this change is largely cosmetic, and only causes merge issues
[10:43] <pfhayes> other than that there are some raw wikipedia urls in the javascript code that could be made more generic
[10:44] <Amgine> hard coded urls?
[10:45] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: i'll move them to one location to make things easier
[10:45] <pfhayes> that would be great
[10:45] <pfhayes> also, we need to get the project hosted under wikimedia - it will make code review much easier. i can't currently submit pull requests against my own repository, as far as I can tell
[10:45] <pfhayes> furthermore, i can't make my own fork of WikipediaMobile if I need to submit a patch for that
[10:45] <Amgine> Are you ready for that on your end, pfhayes?
[10:46] <pfhayes> ready anytime
[10:46] <Amgine> Okay, GroggyPanda, does that require tomasz?
[10:46] <GroggyPanda> Amgine: yes
[10:47] <pfhayes> other than that, the last thing I worked on was adding support for independently choosing the language for the wiki, and the preferred content language. it hasn't been merged yet but the diff is here: https://gist.github.com/1719188
[10:48] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: what's the difference between contentLanguage and wikiLanguage
[10:48] <sheaclare> I'm going to have to take off to class in a second (lab quiz for marks)
[10:48] <sheaclare> What should I work on right now?
[10:48] <pfhayes> the premise is that, if you visit http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/auto, then there are entries for English, French, etc.
[10:48] <pfhayes> the content language is which section should be expanded, English, French, etc.
[10:49] <pfhayes> the wiki language means you are connecting to en.wiktionary.org
[10:49] <GroggyPanda> ah, right
[10:49] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: makes sense from a wiktionary point of view
[10:49] <dlemieux> sheaclare: if you need a new feature take one from here! http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wiktionary_Mobile_App_Feature_List :)
[10:49] <Amgine> There is also a third element, which Astagi pointed out is managed by Android, and that's the UI language/locale.
[10:49] <sheaclare> dlemieux: Thanks, man :) I was wondering if anyone has any requests before I choose my favorite
[10:50] <GroggyPanda> yes
[10:50] <pfhayes> i inserted menu items for it in settings… i referred to them there as 'content language' and 'wiktionary language'. i'm not sure if that is language that will be clear for users
[10:50] <dlemieux> sheaclare: you can always indicate preferences right on that page, but for now just take one
[10:50] <pfhayes> Amgine, GroggyPanda: I left that one for now because that is something that will need to be in WikipediaMobile as wel
[10:50] <sheaclare> dlemieux: capisco. 
[10:50] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: you mean the UI language?
[10:50] <GroggyPanda> yes
[10:51] <pfhayes> GroggyPanda: yes
[10:51] <Amgine> Oh, and a wiktionary member was asking for Cirwin's accelerated editing js, which I added to the features list.
[10:51] <GroggyPanda> yes, that's already taken care of
[10:51] <pfhayes> it already uses the device's locale to change the UI language?
[10:51] <Amgine> (I added a link to the js source code, and an example page.)
[10:51] <pfhayes> and that's not supposed to be in-app configurable?
[10:51] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: yes
[10:52] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: no it isn't supposed to be in-app configurable
[10:52] <pfhayes> okay
[10:52] <pfhayes> then that is all done then
[10:52] <pfhayes> :)
[10:52] <dlemieux> nice
[10:52] <pfhayes> i can merge the diff anytime… there are still a small number of outstanding bugs
[10:52] <pfhayes> one thing that i noticed, is that it uses the local names for each language to know which section to expand
[10:52] <Amgine> GroggyPanda: if my phone is running in English/gb, and I want to look up Irdu terms, but use a hindi interface...
[10:53] <Amgine> where do I change the interface language?
[10:53] <GroggyPanda> Amgine: go to android settings and change language?
[10:53] <GroggyPanda> also, android has no hindi support :P
[10:53] <Amgine> Mmm, afraid of that.
[10:53] <pfhayes> but there are a few inconsistencies… i noticed on french wiktionary, the local language names are capitalized, but the sections in the actual articles. for example, if you use the site matrix api to get the list of languages, English is called "Anglais", but in the articles, it will be under "anglais"
[10:54] <pfhayes> i can fix that case by lowercasing language names, but i don't think that's very generic to all languages
[10:54] <pfhayes> but i don't think it can hurt
[10:54] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: it's going to be a reasonable nightmare for you, I guess - since it's probably very inconsistent
[10:54] <pfhayes> yeah
[10:54] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: are you sure that's a feature worth supporting?
[10:54] <pfhayes> i figured adding lowercasing can only improve accuracy… even if it is only slight
[10:54] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch05_Start_With_No.php
[10:54] <pfhayes> but going much further than that might not be worth it
[10:55] <sheaclare> Ok, I've got to take off. I'll select a priority-3 task and update you all at the next standup. 
[10:55] <GroggyPanda> alright sheaclare!
[10:55] <dlemieux> GroggyPanda: i like the link :)
[10:55] <Amgine> <grin> Me too.
[10:55] <GroggyPanda> once you get a feature in, you can *never* take it out
[10:56] <pfhayes> GroggyPanda: so you think we shouldn't support this feature at all? right now what it does is search for a section heading that matches the name of the language they've chosen, and expand it. if it can't find one, it just expands the first one
[10:56] * sheaclare (~sheaclare@host230-248.wifi.ubc.ca) has left #wiktionary-mobile
[10:56] <Amgine> To keep the feature partially, we could just default to the local language. On en.WT it will be English, on fr.WT it will be Francais.
[10:56] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: talk to the wiktionary people (Amgine?). IF there is a very consistent way of detecting which sections are which language that works ~100%, then yes you can keep ti
[10:57] <GroggyPanda> if it is going to be inconsistent and open it up right half the time and wrong the other time, not worth it
[10:57] <pfhayes> Amgine: we still have the same problem that matching section names to the preferred language is not necessarily exact
[10:57] <Amgine> Always the top L2 heading will be the local language.
[10:57] <pfhayes> language names are just free-form input though, so we can never guarantee it
[10:58] <pfhayes> if the article doesn't conform to the guidelines
[10:58] <Amgine> True, so just assume the top L2 is correct?
[10:58] <dlemieux> I would vote for that
[10:58] <dlemieux> Just the first one
[10:59] <Amgine> <nods> It simplifies the code.
[10:59] <pfhayes> so we don't want to support the feature of, by default, using one language's wiktionary to look up words in another language?
[10:59] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: interwiki?
[11:00] <Amgine> Well, GroggyPanda is right, it does become difficult to maintain in all 270+ languages.
[11:00] <pfhayes> GroggyPanda: what's that?
[11:00] <GroggyPanda> Amgine: care to explain interwiki links?
[11:00] * sheaclare (~sheaclare@host230-248.wifi.ubc.ca) has joined #wiktionary-mobile
[11:00] <Amgine> Interwiki links bring you to the other language if they have an entry for that word.
[11:01] <Amgine> So, for example, [[fr:eau]] will create a link in the left-hand side for Water in French.
[11:01] <Amgine> (in the normal wiki)
[11:01] <pfhayes> I see… that's how the wikipedia 'read in' feature works, yes?
[11:01] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: yes
[11:01] <Amgine> I'm not sure how the interwiki links are done in the mobile app.
[11:02] <GroggyPanda> Amgine: 'Read in' pulls interwiki links
[11:02] <Amgine> Cool.
[11:02] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: check the sidebar of any wiktionary entry, you'll see the interwiki links
[11:02] <pfhayes> got it
[11:03] <Amgine> There are 3 bots running full speed maintaining those links most of the time.
[11:03] <Amgine> I never understand how wiktionary gets away with unthrottled bots...
[11:04] <GroggyPanda> heh
[11:05] <GroggyPanda> so i'd vote for dropping that feature (content/wiki language) since it is not possible to consistently implement it
[11:05] <pfhayes> alright
[11:05] <GroggyPanda> and perhaps interwiki is the 'better' way to do 'in other languages'
[11:05] <pfhayes> makes sense
[11:06] <Amgine> I think it could be maintained about 95%, but it would require much more maintenance.
[11:06] <Amgine> and 95% isn't really good enough.
[11:06] <GroggyPanda> Amgine: it would 'impose' new wiki guidelines?
[11:06] <Amgine> No. But it would require an intensive filtering array.
[11:06] <pfhayes> i would imagine there are already wiki guidelines on section names for languages, no?
[11:07] <Amgine> In *some* of the wiktionaries, but not all.
[11:07] <Amgine> Maori, for example, has had periods of time where they didn't allow any non-Maori words.
[11:07] <pfhayes> i see
[11:09] <dlemieux> Just as a heads up I have a class to leave for in a few minutes
[11:09] <pfhayes> okay, i will return to the behaviour of just opening up the first section
[11:10] <GroggyPanda> or not opening any sections :D
[11:10] <Amgine> kk, I think we're at brainstorming. I think pfhayes needs support on the merge, and as soon as possible move the repo back to wikimedia.
[11:10] <GroggyPanda> yes, i'll make sure there is only one instance of a wikipedia.org url in the codebase by tomorrow or so
[11:11] <Amgine> GroggyPanda: can you also get us a spot in the bugzilla, so I can tell the wiktionarians where to bring their features?
[11:11] <pfhayes> GroggyPanda: do you think there is a need to switch the java package from org.wikipedia to org.wiktionary? that is something that is annoying to maintain, and probably unnecessary
[11:11] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: if you're the one doing the merges - I strongly suggest learning about git rebases
[11:11] <pfhayes> i am familiar with rebases, i can switch to doing that
[11:11] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: cool.
[11:11] <Amgine> Oh, and Hashar has Jeeves building nightlies for us.
[11:12] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: not particularly sure, I *think* there is a bit about how you can't have two apps with same package name installed in the phone
[11:12] <dlemieux> I think i've read that too
[11:12] <pfhayes> oh okay
[11:12] <pfhayes> then that will need to be maintained as well
[11:13] <GroggyPanda> the org.wiktionary?
[11:13] <GroggyPanda> sadly
[11:13] <GroggyPanda> :)
[11:13] <pfhayes> alas
[11:13] <GroggyPanda> but ideally you wouldn't have to do that more than once
[11:13] <dlemieux> okay, i need to head out! but i'll keep this running to check the messages.  Also Amgine how do i access the 'log' you are keeping?
[11:14] <GroggyPanda> i'm guessing Amgine will mail us all?
[11:14] <Amgine> I will post it somewhere.
[11:14] <Amgine> Oh, or e-mail it.
[11:14] <pfhayes> GroggyPanda: once for each new file added, but yes
[11:14] <dlemieux> links on our wiki page might be best
[11:14] <GroggyPanda> +1 wiki + email
[11:14] <Amgine> <nods> redundancy is good.
[11:17] <GroggyPanda> :)
[11:17] <GroggyPanda> pfhayes: Amgine anything else you'd like to discuss?
[11:18] <pfhayes> i think that's it for me
[11:18] <Amgine> I'm good. Unless you wanna help me with my php bot framework.
[11:18] <Amgine> <which works, but isn't smart enough. yet.>
[11:18] <GroggyPanda> :D
[11:18] <GroggyPanda> well, it is php