Topic on Project:Village Pump

Translate: where are located and defined the ID of Special Pages contents ?

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

For translation of local pages, on page Special:Tags and because it is a system page, how do we retrieve the ID of messages still left in EN and where can they be found to adapt their translation ?

Example: 'Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)' in my FR Special:Tags page version of line 'Potentially problematic translation' is a mix between EN terms and FR ones and need to be FR aligned. Looking for 'Tagged by filter' on has provided no satisfying results. Thanks.

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 08:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)

Click on the "Edit" link next to the "Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)".

Translate {{Tag description}}.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)
   ok good => this step allows to translate strings "Tagged by filter..."
   Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 09:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

... no such Edit link on the page ; @Ciencia Al Poder may be not enough rights for me ?

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

not here and if i follow yours it says it is protected;

Vous n’avez pas le droit de6v modifier cette page, pour la raison suivante : Cette page fournit du texte d’interface pour le logiciel sur ce wiki et est protégée pour éviter les abus. Pour ajouter ou modifier des traductions sur tous les wikis, veuillez utiliser, le projet de régionalisation de MediaWiki.

where to request ?

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Yes nice, and if I go on this MediaWiki:Tag-Pot.... , they say "To add or change translations for all wikis, please use, the MediaWiki localisation project." So I have wondered why not to rely on for that ?

If I take the example of tag 'mobile web edit' I construct key ID => 'MediaWiki:Tag-mobile web edit' which exists on => 'Modification par le web mobile ' and that I find back under 'Appearance on change lists'

By adding suffix '-description' for the column beside named 'full description of meaning' I construct key ID 'MediaWiki:Tag-mobile web edit-description/fr' which gives 'Modification effectuée depuis le site web mobile'

This sounds good with what I get. So for a first shot of my concern, I have created => and

We should be able to find a solution with for all other messages of Special:Tags and all languages.

Now as we know starting from the tag name XXX in Mediawiki, how to access the text MediaWiki:Tag-XXX/xx and the description MediaWiki:Tag-XXX-description/xx on translatewiki, the problem would be to bring back the translated strings. I have not enough knowledge about that, but this action is to be managed. May be the process already exists (?) and simply because the /fr messages were not existing, EN were used as fallback.

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:25, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

The per-template base seems not really adapted because there is a lot of other untransaled items on this Special:Tags page (about 32 lines are concerned). If my proposal here (here above) with is pertinent I 'll solve all of them point per point.

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:39, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

While I understand the fanciness of being able to translate the message without edit-interface rights, invoking a template with the #ifexists parser function on a message that can appear potentially thousands of times on Special:RecentChanges or Special:Watchlist, which already have serious performance problems, can probably cause more harm than good

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

So I have created the FR items herebelow on for missing FR texts and [this topic] they advice me to 1)create the English base (otherwise it's impossible to translate correctly) 2) make it part of a translation project or subproject for some Mediawiki extension 3.appears in the Translate UI.

Question: what is the next step for us ?

MediaWiki:Tag-Added PHP closing tag-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Added PHP closing tag/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Anonymous updated project status-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Anonymous updated project status/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Blocked user editing own talk page/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-New user blanking page-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-New user blanking page/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-New user editing project page-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-New user editing project page/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1188-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1261-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1352-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1805-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 1841-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 2071-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 21-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 31-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OAuth CID: 429-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-OTRS permission added by non-OTRS member/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Possible LTA-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Possible LTA/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Potentially problematic translation/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Rapid reverts/en
MediaWiki:Tag-Rapid reverts/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Short translation-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-Short translation/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-deletion template removed-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-deletion template removed/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-meta spam id/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link or email/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link-description/email/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link/email/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie external link/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-newbie translation documentation edit/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-ntsamr (global)/email/fr 
MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam 2/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible link spam/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible out of scope-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible out of scope/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible vandalism-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-possible vandalism/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-repeated xwiki CoI abuse/fr 
MediaWiki:Tag-repeating characters-description/fr
MediaWiki:Tag-repeating characters/fr

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 15:18, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

Those translations don't belong to, because those tags are specific to website and not common to all MediaWiki installations. They should be translated on this wiki.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

Since these tags are defined on-wiki, they don’t, and shouldn’t, belong to any code repository, so they won’t ever be migrated from to the code repository, and thus won’t be imported to They should be deleted over there, and all translation needs to happen locally (through edit requests unless you’re a local admin).

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Thanks all for these informations. You can easily understand how difficult it is for a beginnner to guess what to do. Here are the steps I have followed:

  1. Message "To add or change translations for all wikis, please use, the MediaWiki localisation project". present on I wondered to all wiki ? ...hum on Meta, Special:Tags is present, so I say yes to all wikis => going to
  2. there I see for example which conforts me that the absent messages are really missing there (but others also exist for different /xx too, which means that other users have reached the honey pot)

Solution proposal:

  1. According to your proposal @Ciencia Al Poder would you be kind to retrieve the contents of FR translated strings from above list representing one day of work and the complete page of messages. For example: (this is a half way solution)
  2. Stregthen/adapt/change/remove the warning message "please use, the MediaWiki localisation project" discouraging users to go there and make orphaned translations
  3. when solution 1. is completed, then according to @Tacsipacsi request to delete pages associated to such translated tags for coherence .

Any advice ? Thanks.

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 07:48, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I exported the list of pages from TWN, and my idea was to import them here, but I'm unable to do so because Special:Import on this wiki doesn't allow uploading an XML file for importing. What kind of black magic is this?

I don't know if there's a way to easily import those pages.

Edit: Looks like this can only be done by a bureaucrat on this wiki.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Thanks - I dont know if it is the right way but to advance the subject and earn some time for an Edit Request I have referred the situation in Phabricator.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

yes extra help is required - thanks we'll try to be more clever next time.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)
  1. Stregthen/adapt/change/remove the warning message "please use, the MediaWiki localisation project" discouraging users to go there and make orphaned translations

For me, it’s clear, and I think it would be clear as a beginner non-developer as well: this particular message exists only here, so it should be translated here. To stop people like you for whom it’s not clear, I think a better solution is to simply disallow the creation of the translation:

  • Don’t allow creating translations on for messages for which the English version (/en message) doesn’t exist. This likely requires a bit of development, but should be doable.
  • (Optional) To make absolutely sure, don’t allow anyone but translation administrators to edit /en pages. This is just a matter of a configuration change, and I’ve just run into a code bit that suggests this actually used to be the case, I don’t know why was it relaxed to a big pink warning.

Edit: Looks like this can only be done by a bureaucrat on this wiki.

Not even bureaucrats, only importers (requires uploadimport right, see Special:ListGroupRights#import)—all four of which happen to be bureaucrats as well.

Legoktm (talkcontribs)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

woaw, wonderful and already operational ! Next time we should left an open door for rereading by other users (it is always better), when rereading will be operational again (of course...). May be someone will have better expressions working in the context, but for a first shot I m pretty satisfied. Thanks all. Dont hesitate to ask me FR directed translations when needed rather than me picking up translations at random.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

@Legoktm @Ciencia Al PoderJust as a complement; we have lost the filter information 'tagged by...’. When no description field existed, take the FR text. When tag template is already present, the description field should hold the FR text + the tag template. This occurs in: Potentially problematic, Repeating char, Possible vandalism, New user project page, Short translation,...

Legoktm (talkcontribs)

@Wladek92: sorry, I haven't really been following this thread, I just jumped in because @Ciencia Al Poder pinged me as I have importupload permissions. If I messed something up happy to fix it but otherwise I'm going to respectfully bow out unless I'm needed again.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

ok, so can I have a READ access (path to source/history you have changed) and a code mentor ID to correct the source and propose a version of what is concretly expected ? Thanks.

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 07:19, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

See Special:Contributions/Legoktm.

As per changes to the messages, you'll have to ask here, on a new thread or on the talk page of those messages (although they may get unnoticed)

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

ok but we dont see really what has been done: before= empty / new=empty ; see here . The last request to Legoktm (he has made a substitution) was to ADD the missing description AND keep what exists because we have lost now the "Tagged by filter 76 (hist · journaux)" of @ Shirayuki herabove .

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

Can you be more specific? Legoktm imported the messages as you wrote them on TWN. If more modifications are needed just request them: message to edit and what needs to be edited.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

yes but I have already listed that hereabove

After rereading I ve put here below the modifications to apply in the current version of Special:Tags FR (that is applied above the first Legoktm FR update attempt) and for the following items. (Caution: pages are now already deleted) .

We want to see (new displayed) = new translated text + (old text when if exists)

and he has done (new displayed) = new translated

so we have lost the call to the template for corresponding tags and filtering information is now missing. Please read the topic to understand what to request.

Sorry to break for now, but i have a mission with disabled people starting to morrow , Thanks all and hasta la vista till the end of next week.

 EN : Potentially problematic translation	Potentially problematic translation	Tagged by filter 76 (hist · logs)
 FR : 
 Add filter line template to correct the FR description
 Il est possible que le texte proposé pour la traduction soit contraire ou n'ait aucun rapport avec l'original.
 Labellisé par le filtre 76 (hist · journaux)
 EN : repeating characters	Repeating characters	This edit contains a highly repetitive character sequence, like "!!!!!!!" or "hahahahahahaha".
 Tagged by filter 79 (hist · logs)
 FR : 
 Add filter line template to correct the FR description	
 Cette modification contient une séquence de caractères répétés trop souvent comme "!!!!!!!" ou "hahahahahahaha".
 Labellisé par le filtre 79 (hist · journaux)
 EN : possible vandalism	possible vandalism	This edit contains blanks a portion of a page in bad faith
 Tagged by filter 66 (hist · logs)
 FR : 
 Add filter line template to correct the FR description	
 Cette modification contient de nombreuses lignes blanches douteuses, sur une portion de la page
 Labellisé par le filtre 66 (hist · journaux)
 EN : New user editing project page	New user editing project page	Tagged by filter 72 (hist · logs)
 FR : 
 Add lifters line template to correct the FR description
 Un contributeur nouveau vient de modifier la page du projet
 Labellisé par le filtre 72 (hist · journaux)
 EN : Short translation	Short translation	Tagged by filter 76 (hist · logs)
 FR : 
 Add filters line template to correct the FR Description : 
 Peu de termes traduits; la traduction est peut être douteuse ou inachevée
 Labellisé par le filtre 76 (hist · journaux)
 EN : OAuth CID: 1261	SWViewer [1.2]	App to view recent changes on small wikis for SWMT. Diffs, whitelist, quick reverts, etc. See w:ru:User:Iluvatar/SWViewer.
 FR : missing user value
 Add user value to correct the FR Description : 
 OAuth CID: 1261	SWViewer [1.2]	Application qui affiche les modifications récentes sur les petits wikis pour SWMT. Les Diffs, listes blanches, annulations rapides, etc. Voir w:ru:User:Iluvatar/SWViewer.
 EN: OAuth CID: 1188	SWViewer [1.0]	SPA (but auth process in php) for viewing queue of edits on small wikis for SWMT. Diffs, whitelist, reverts. Will be hosted on Labs. Desktop version [[ru:user:Iluvatar/SWViewer]] .
 FR : missing user value
 Add user value to correct the FR Description :
 SPA (processus en PHP) pour afficher la file d'attente des modifications sur les petits wikis pour SWMT. Les Diffs, listes blanches, annulations. Version pour ordinateur de bureau [[ru:user:Iluvatar/SWViewer]]. 

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 13:41, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

Since nobody else would be able to review the changes until you come back, it would be better to wait until you come back, and maybe delete all those imported messages in the meantime if they're incorrect or misleading.

Since the changes need to be done by a sysop, that may not know French enough, it would be good if you create a subpage on your userpage, with a table with 2 columns:

  • A link to the message to translate.
  • The text that needs to be placed on that message.
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Have you please the Ids of the concern sysops for me to speak directly of their requirements for the correction ?

Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)
Verdy p (talkcontribs)

Now if the development made for becomes a supported extension that can/should be reusable for other wiki, it's up to developers to open-source that development into a deployable module/extension with its own repository (posibly with some more adaptations to work with other wikis, notably by avoiding to use hardcoded references to other contents specific to that cannot be tweaked for use on other wikis, such as includion of service URIs, local templates, local user names...).

At that time, you can request an import right for that project, and start importing an XML file (maybe outside the main "MediaWiki" namespace, just like what was done for Miraheze for example in its own namespace for that/those extension(s), or coordinated with other extensions maintained for Mediawiki itself if you really want to keep the generic "MediaWiki" namespace, but probably with prefixes for each message name).

Of course you should then prepare the translations in English (because for now it's impossible to use any other base language for translations; but may be you should allow correcting that English base by allowing translations e.g. in "en-US": when exporting from TWN, you'll detect those suggeted changes/corrections, will review these en-US transltions to fix the "en" base in your project, then reimport them, once curated, into the "en" base; this is a posible solution to avoid havnig many admin requests posted in TWN support pages, or in your project.

Anyway I really suggest that for local development specific to, you rename all your needed messages with a common prefix and not just the "MediaWiki:" namespace, which continues to be filled in by supported core messages or extensions/skins messages. So for now they should probably be renamed from "MediaWiki:Tag-*" to "MediaWiki:Wikimedia-Tag-*" (possibly as well with other prefixes or for unprefixed messages) because they are specific to the Wikimedia local instance of the MediaWiki documentation wiki, cleaning up that namespace to avoid collisions with future developments in supported extensions maintained by other teams (including those for use outside Wikimedia: look at what was done for Miraheze or BlueSpice extensions that also use their own prefixes).

Note that even for supported generic extensions for MediaWiki, they all have (or should have already) their own prefix for each translation group. This is needed to help manage the content of that namespace and fix orphaned translations (notably those that are left from old versions that have been replaced over time), without having to make extensive searches and manage new bug requests after their deployments to other wikis.

And anyway, any translation imported from TWN for new messages (or messages whose base English source was updated, except if these updates are fixing minor typos in English and not altering the functionality, excluding for example changes that affect embedded translation variables like "$1", or rename/reorder them for plural/gender support) should first be imported in a test wiki for local curation, and not directly on the production sites. Then Wikimedia Phabricator tasks can be used to validate those curated messages for later deployment on other Wikimedia wikis or to be included in supported projects deployable to other non-WM wikis.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

nice, it is a question of organisation.

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