Topic on Talk:Growth/2023

Survey Results Regarding the Newcomers' Features in the Hebrew Wikipedia

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המקיסט (talkcontribs)

Hello. I had recently made a Survey among Hebrew Wikipedia's users regarding the Newcomers' Features, which was active for about a month (October 14th-November 7th). I would like to share here important results, notes and suggestions from this survey, which will hopefully help in the future development of the features for all of the relevant Wikipedias in general, and the Hebrew Wikipedia in particular. 22 people responded, most of them (except for 5-6) were experienced users, so this should also be considered when seeing the results.


(most of the questions were in a scale from 1-5. 1= not at all, 5=very much)


*When being asked about how much the users are satisfied from the features, most of the users chose 4 and 5 (out of 22, 6 users chose 5 and 7 users chose 4). Therefore, the users are overall satisfied with the features.


*When being asked how much they would like the features to stay in the Hebrew Wikipedia for the future, most of the users chose 5- 11 users out of 22 (so they indeed want the features to stay).


*When being asked how much they would like the features to be available as default for both new and experienced users, most of the users chose 4 and 5 (7 users chose 4, 5 users chose 5 while 4 users chose 3, 2 users chose 2, and 4 users chose 1). Therefore, there is a will among the users to see the features for both new and experienced users as default in the future (however, I also explained later that it's just an option that may be available for the future, and not something to be done soon).


*When asking users who were/are mentors regarding their satisfaction from the mentorship, most of the users chose 3 (5 out of 14), while 4 users chose 4 and 4 users chose 1 (and another user chose 2), so there isn't enough satisfaction from the mentorship.


I got a few more encouraging results about liking the newcomers' homepage (out of 8 users, 7 users chose answers 4 and 5), users being satisfied with the module of suggested edits (out of 5 users, 4 chose answers 4 and 5), or users being satisfied with the help panel (out of 4 users, 4 chose answers 4 and 5), but sadly only few users answered there, so I don't think it can represent enough users to use as a collective answer from our community.


In addition, I would also like to mention a few notes and suggestions that were raised in said survey:

*Users didn't like the random matching of mentees (I explained the reason for such thing, however, and that helping users with basic questions is not as same as a mandatory mentorship and thus personal matching of mentors is not critical for this kind of mentorship. I also offered to tag specific people if they are needed, and to use templates we have to tag experts in various subjects).


*Mentors are unable to know who their mentees are and their contributions (was mentioned quite a lot, before the survey and in it. I mentioned that such thing is in the Phabricator and in development, but this emphasises the need and the importance of such tools).


*It was reported that new users don't answer after they questions were answered (and it even seemed many didn't continue in Wikipedia after that). I wrote about the importance of tagging users, but it's not necessarily the factor here and probably also happened with tagged users.


*Users asked for more subjects in the suggested edits module (and to separate subjects: to separate "Philosophy and Religion" to two separate subjects, and separate the different religions into different subjects instead of putting them all into one). My personal recommendation in this case would be using our portals (hubs, "main pages" for specific subjects) for listing subjects in this module.


*Users suggested to use flow pages (or even mail) for the discussions with the mentees that should be in experienced users' talk pages in order not to overload talk pages, helping the mentees to find the page to talk with their mentors, and to help them not to struggle with WikiCode.


Thanks and sorry for the long message. Hope this will be helpful, and will improve the experience of the features.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thank you for your message. This survey is a great initiative, and we are happy that you shared the results with us. :)

the results are indeed helpful. First, it shows that people seem to be overall happy about the features.

Concerning notes and suggestions, I have some replies for you that may help mentors.

If a mentor wants to collaborate with a given newcomer, it is possible to claim a mentee. This is useful if you find someone who like editing on the same topic as yours, or if you host a workshop IRL and want to follow up on wikis the people you met.

Mentors wanting to know who are their mentees is covered by a few tickets on Phabricator. I invite you to look at these tickets, since you may find things about having a mentor dashboard, or a filter in recent changes and watchlist just showing your mentees' edits. Your survey gives some wright to these ideas. Please leave comments there with the feedback you received in your survey.

New users not responding is not a surprise to me. As a volunteer, I'm a mentor since 10 years on French Wikipedia, and some newcomers come back after a while. I recently had the case of a user responding after 3 months of absence! It seems to be a lot of time for people like us, active every day on the wikis, but for people who aren't wikiholdics like we are, it is a normal span of time.

For talk pages, maybe you should ask to have the reply tool being deployed to everyone by default on your wiki? It would ease replies from newcomers.

I let @MMiller (WMF) comment as well. :)

thank you again for sharing!

המקיסט (talkcontribs)

Thanks! :) I will indeed comment in the phabricator regarding showing mentees and their activity to their mentors.

I was a bit surprised to hear that newcomers come back after such a long time and respond, but it definitely sounds right. Hopefully more and more newcomers will return in the future in this manner.

As for deploying the flow tool as default for the Hebrew Wikipedia- I guess I can raise this topic there and see what the community thinks about it, although I personally prefer the regular talk pages over it.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

My personal experience on fr.wp is a response time from newcomers of 2-3 days OR around 15 days. This is also something to consider if one has an archiving system on their talk page: don't archive too early!

Structured Discussions (Flow) will not be deployed by default on any wiki. This tool will be abandoned when the new talk pages system will be ready.

המקיסט (talkcontribs)

Thanks, I will point this out to the mentors in our wiki.


I'm really sorry for confusing between flow and the reply tool (didn't know there was such tool and accidentally thought it's flow). I hope the discussion there will continue now considering said reply tool. By the way, there was another tool that was suggested previously in this discussion, which is quite similar to the reply tool ,but has more options and is a bit better I think. AFAIK it's called "Convenient Discussions" ("דיונים נוחים"), and it's not avaliable in our wiki through beta, but by adding this line to common.js:


mw.loader.load('https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jack_who_built_the_house/convenientDiscussions.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');


I tried it and it's not perfect but overall fine. Many editors who responded previously favoured it over the reply tool and flow. Therefore, I think it may be another good alternative, and suggested it as an option too.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

No problem on the confusion. Like I wrote, it happen quite often.

Concerning Convenient Discussions, it is a script. If I remember correctly, this script is loaded for each talk page you visit. But the new reply tool (כלי שיחה) works when asked to. It is lighter and the interface is similar to other tools. the reply tool would be a much better experience for newcomers.

However, I'm not currently working on discussion tools. I informed my colleague WhatamIgoing about the conversation you have on your wiki.

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