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Request about pinging

19
Summary by Whatamidoing (WMF)
Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

I think it is better that we can insert ping for the user who will replied.

How do you think:

  • User will be able to toggle whether ping will be inserted.
  • If user toggle it on, @[[User:(user who will replied)|(user who will replied)]]: will be inserted as ping.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The team has been thinking about a check box (toggle on if you want to ping) for a user, but without needing the name to show in the message content. It would work something like pinging someone in an edit summary now (they get pinged, but the message doesn't say "@You The answer is 42"; it just says "The answer is 42".) Do you think that would meet your goal?

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

I see. So if do that, user will be able to ping the user who will be replied without a link to the user page, right? I just wanted that users will be able to get a notification when they are replied, so that's enough. Thank you!

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I just wanted that users will be able to get a notification when they are replied, so that's enough.

hi @Atmark-chan – are you able to share more about what is prompting you to say the above? Are you finding it requires, what you see as, unnecessary effort to remember to insert a ping when Replying to someone? Are you noticing a pattern where people you are responding to are not responding back in a timely fashion? Something else?


Oh, and out of curiosity, what mode of the Reply Tool have you found yourself using most? Source or Visual?

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF): Yes, I am noticing a pattern where people I am responding to are not sometimes responding back in a timely fashion, so I want to send a notification more easily.

Also, I have used Source mode most.

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

Oh, just now I found a button to mention a user in the Visual mode... I hadn't found it, sorry! But I also want to use it in the Source mode. Can you please do?

PPelberg (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I am noticing a pattern where people I am responding to are not sometimes responding back in a timely fashion, so I want to send a notification more easily.

Got it. Thank you for sharing this additional context.

Oh, just now I found a button to mention a user in the Visual mode... I hadn't found it, sorry!

There's nothing for you to apologize for :) Pinging is functionality we think should be obvious, regardless of the mode you are using.

Can you please do?

Adding an easier way to create pings is something we plan to the Reply Tool's source mode. The Phabricator ticket where we are thinking about is T257391 (I've added the comments you shared here to the ticket as well). As for timing, I do not yet know when exactly this functionality will be added. With this said, we will let you know when it is.

Pinging aside, how have you found using the Reply Tool to be?

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@PPelberg (WMF):

I've added the comments you shared here to the ticket as well

Thank you for that!

how have you found using the Reply Tool to be?

I've requested to introduce Replying Tool to Japanese Wikivoyage, the wiki I'm active best, in T265829. Also even now I often use it with the PHP parameter dtenable=1.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

Also even now I often use it with the PHP parameter dtenable=1.

You don’t even need that. If you’re comfortable with using the browser command line, you can issue mw.loader.load('ext.discussionTools.init') in the command line and it will be enabled on the given wiki from the next page load on, provided that it’s not available officially (e.g. as a beta feature). You can add this to your global.js as well, but that slows down each page load a little bit, even if the tool isn’t going to be used (e.g. when viewing an article or editing a page).

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@Tacsipacsi: Only running mw.loader.load('ext.discussionTools.init') in command line loads Discussion Tool any number of times in the wiki. Immediately I've tried that in Japanese Wikivoyage and Meta-Wiki just now.

Oh, As a side note, am I able to turn the loading off?

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)
Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@Tacsipacsi: Doesn't that mean that users have to:

  1. blank their commons.js and global.js
  2. type mw.cookie.set('discussiontools-tempenable', null); into the console

to turn the loading off? I did that as a test, but the loading seemed not no be turned off.

Tacsipacsi (talkcontribs)

@Atmark-chan: It should work, although probably not immediately, only once you reload the page after running the command, just like when turning on.

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

@Atmark-chan, would you please do me a favor? Could you please switch to "visual" mode at the Japanese Wikivoyage, and check that the toolbar is working as you expect, to add links and mention another user? (It's not necessary to post the Reply if you don't want to.) I would be grateful if you could let me know whether it's working as expected, and whether you would recommend any changes to the toolbar (e.g., to remove the italics, which I believe isn't used in Japanese).

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Sorry, but I have a thing to do in the real world now... I'll reply you later.

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): I'm very sorry that my replying is so late... I was going to return here as soon as I finished the thing to do, but after that I became very busy.

Could you please switch to "visual" mode at the Japanese Wikivoyage, and check that the toolbar is working as you expect, to add links and mention another user?

Sure, I did. It looks working fine. I can begin to enter a mention with entering "@", enter a username, and then finish with Tab , right?

Ideally, It'll be nicer to insert the honorific (e.g., "さん" ("-san") in Japanese) and ":" after the username defaultly, just like "Atmark-chanさん:". I think It'll be good to make a message (e.g., $1さん:) and replace $1 with the username. To reflect all languages' honorific, it will need to ask to each language wiki users "What do you use as the honorific in your language?", but I think it'll be OK to use provisionally $1: (like "Atmark-chan:").

e.g., to remove the italics, which I believe isn't used in Japanese

I think we don't need to remove the italics even in Japanese language wikis because some users sometimes uses the italic style to highlight a bit.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I unfortunately have never learned Japanese,. Is the honorific the same for everyone? Is it always a suffix? There's a way to change the "@" symbol, so if it were at the start and the same for everyone, you could change that to "@honorific" (with the username to follow). It is presumably possible, as a technical matter, to make a similar thing for the suffix. I think it would be possible for it to automatically change depending upon gender, but probably not number ("the two Misses Lee") or grammar ("Tell Dr. Ito" vs "Dr. Ito says").

This is such an interesting idea that I'm going to file a Phabricator task for it now. We can add more information later.

Atmark-chan (talkcontribs)

@Whatamidoing (WMF):

Is the honorific the same for everyone? Is it always a suffix?

Yes. Japanese honorific "さん" ("-san") can be used for men and women of all ages and people whose sex or age the writer doesn't know. Also, it is always used as a suffix, like "佐藤さん" ("Satō-san") for example.

I think it would be possible for it to automatically change depending upon gender, but probably not number ("the two Misses Lee") or grammar ("Tell Dr. Ito" vs "Dr. Ito says").

In some languages (especially ones are strict to the grammatical cases), it seems the honorific may change depending on the number or grammer; honorifics inflect the attached words' case in the languages like that (e.g. in Esperanto, "D-ro" (means "Dr.") becomes "D-ron" as the accusative singular form when the name is the accusative singular form). Also, though the great majority of speakers of Japanese in wikis use "さん" ("-san"), that's just a typical thing. As far as I know, a few uses "" ("-sama") as the honorific, other uses no honorific.

So I think it is hoped-for that the prefix and the suffix (includes the honorific) will be inserted as the default and be also editable.

This is such an interesting idea that I'm going to file a Phabricator task for it now. We can add more information later.

Thank you for that!

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