Topic on User talk:Lea Lacroix (WMDE)

Hello Lea. I write to you as I see that you have a significant part in the project Wikidata Bridge. I do not now in what discussion page in the project to put these questions, so I write to you directly.

I contribute on Wikipedia in Norwegian and have done so for more than 12 years. My interest lays in writing articles and not so much I am afraid, in using Wikidata.

I am visiting your users page to ask you whether Wikidatas total interface is part of the scope of Wikidata Bridge. Or is this only project on making a bridge between Wikipedia and Wikidata. Please let me explain why I put the question to you.

The implementation of Wikidata in infoboxes is at present a hot, not to say exhausting theme in Tinget and Torget at wpno. There is an ongoing ballot if the references should be totally removed from the information boxes. You might be able to read the discussions by using a translation programme, but do not try to read it all. Life is not long enough.

There are of course as many nuances in discussions as participants. However, in my judgement a very important reason for rejecting WD is the users feeling of loosing control. Those who are familiar with Wikidata, does not feel that control is lost, but if WD is strange to you, that feeling might occur.  You have of course heard that before.

To explain my position, I write in Visual Editor as much as I can. I have not posted very many pictures in commons, but I did more of that after a significant change in the interface took place.  The interface in Wikidata strikes me as difficult to understand.

Even the discussions contain a lot of P’s and Q’s technical words that is never used in the same way in ordinary articles! The pages have names that I am not used to in plain Norwegian. The choosing of words favours a technical language, perhaps that of the computer science. I am not quite sure, I am a lawyer myself, and we have occasionally problems using a simple language too!  

In the actual case we have a problem that the references from the boxes occurs like a url-line. Without a text in ordinary language the reader cannot understand by just reading what the source is. But even when it occurs together with ordinary words, it is ugly!

Wikipedias lack of diplomacy shows itself in all its ugliness in the discussion, as you might imagine. Some users feel that their work in establishing Wikidata and connecting it with Wikipedia is threatened, others and to some extent myself, feel estranged, alienated.

Well, all this to explain the reasons for my simple question about the scope of your project. But perhaps also to report a concern of a long-lasting conflict between the WD’s and the WP’s in the future. It might be possible to overcome with a simpler interface in WD.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Hello! Thanks for your message. I'll try to answer to each point separately, let me know if I forgot something important.

• You can find here the documentation of the Wikidata Bridge, including what it does and what it doesn't do. The talk page is the best place to ask questions.
• The Wikidata Bridge is a feature for Wikipedia: it will allow Wikipedia editors to be able to edit data from Wikidata directly from the infoboxes. We hope that this tool will help Wikipedia editors to regain a feeling of control on the data that they use in Wikidata, and be more keen to use Wikidata's data in infoboxes.
• The Wikidata Bridge does not provide any change on the interface of Wikidata.
• The reason for choosing unique identifiers on Wikidata (Q and P numbers) was made both to avoid highlighting a language more than an other, as Wikidata is an international project, and to allow external website to use these unique and stable identifiers (the URL will never change, even if the labels are renamed) to connect with Wikidata.
• If I understand correctly, you encounter an issue with infoboxes on nowp displaying only the URL of the reference. I guess in some cases, this can be fixed by updating the code of the infobox to get more information from Wikidata, like the name of the book/newspaper/website where the reference comes from. Sometimes the information is not in Wikidata yet, but could be added there :)

Thanks for sharing your concerns. I hope my reply could help a bit. Cheers, Léa

Thank you very much for your answer. Please let me briefly comment on two of them.

I am concerned by the infoboxes presenting URL in the references in general. The reference can be ajusted in WD by adding text in the code. But in my view the URL should be removed totally. The URL does not give the reader any valuable information, but disturbes the reading. Don't take me to serious, but we will get used to it, like we will get used to garbage in the streets, when it is enough of it. In nowp it seems like there is no one that are capable in finding the error.

Hopefully the project will make it easier to edit Wikidata directely from the infoboxes. However, well inside the WD you will meet a different culture of editing. The users occupied with writing text in articles would like to ajust the information from Wikidata to the box. This is met with rejection from Wikidata. An example: Beethoven had according to WD as an occupation (P106) (starting to learn) as virtuoso (Q214970). Nobody never had such an occupation. He was a virtuoso, but was never hired as one. The caraterisation virtuoso discribes his skills. A correction in Wikidata however, is not accepted. Wikidata shall, it is said, serve all languages and not only Norwegian. If not a logic answer, I suppose that is true in a sense. The information could be corrected manually in the infoboks, if you what to do the work, but then this is not what you where there for.

The vote that now are taking place in nowp is directely about showing references in the infoboxes, but in my opinion the underlaying question is about the connection between Wikidata and Wikipedia, in general. It is a struggle between those who wants to "enlighten" the public speaking Norwegian by writing articles and those who see Wikidata as a kee to something bigger. Those who will connect with Wikidata will win this vote, but with a large minority. I am concerned by the confrontive tone between the parties, mostly upheld by a single user.

I am not hostile to Wikidata. Wikidata can't be changed only to serve nowp. It would however help if the references looked "normal" even coming from Wikidata. I am not expecting your answer to this. However, from what I can see there is not sufficient competence in nowp to solve this problem. If you therefore, as an expert, could have this in your thoughts and if not solving it yourself, pass it on to someone that could look into it, or even give me his or hers adress, I would be greateful. Thank you for your time!