Topic on Talk:Map improvements 2018

Hi. I got a mail from one of the Norwegian OSM-mappers. He/she have found a bug in the map for lang=nb.

I have made two examples in the test wiki where things fails.

https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Haros/map_in_lang_nb

Note that for Norwegian, nb and nn, the language codes nb and nn shall usually not be used in OSM, but the code no that contains both. I think that definition by OSM is correct and far less error-prone than attempting to have both nb and nn defined. From the Wikipedias however, you should expect to receive lang="nb"and lang="nn"

OSM name data for Sweden, showing no nb entry

I'm not sure I follow your information fully, but this isn't a bug in our system, at any rate. As you can see in the screenshot below, there is no nb entry for Sweden in OpenStreetMap. Are you saying you can't enter nb?

Yes I could enter a name for nb, but that would be against the rules for how names in Norwegian shall be given as defined by OpenStreetMap.

As long as the name is identical in nb and nn, none of those shall be given, only the code no shall be used. And the name for Sweden is Sverige in both nb and nn. There is indeed an entry for no with that name.

The fallback for nb should at least have no present, and ahead of nn.

Similar should be for nn.

(I just wrote about this in Tinget on no-wiki.)

Here is what OSM says on their wiki on this.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Norway

Here are the actual fallback settings. You can see that nb falls back on nn, and nn falls back on nb. But there is no fallback for "no".

We added some information to the Kartographer Help page to explain how you can change your fallback settings. You should get community consensus, but it shouldn't be too hard, since you can change your maps fallbacks without changing the general fallback languages for the wiki. (The lists are mostly identical now, but are separate.) So it should be require less convincing.

As long as you're thinking about changing your fallbacks, you might want to consider including a language like English, which has a lot of OSM multilingual names, in your fallback list, since Norwegian isn't in even the top 25 languages for OSM multilingual data. That should make maps of foreign places look more readable. E.g., here is China with the language set to Norwegian, and here it is in English. If, having made that change, you started seeing English names showing up in maps of Norway, you could use the lang="local" setting, as described here. Good luck, and let us know how it works out!

As I wrote above, I just wrote on Tinget about this. That was in order to establish a consensus on this. In the meanwhile I have used lang="no".

I'm not sure how I could utilize lang="local". Perhaps checking that Wikidata has a P17=Q20 (i.e. country is Norway)?

I'm aware of the China problem. Looks much better for Korea and Japan for some reason I have not yet discovered.

The fallback for no should probably be nb,nn by the way, as the majority uses nb.

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T194527

I've filed a task for this and written a patch to set the following fallbacks:

• nb: First no, then nn
• nn: First no, then nb
• no: First nb, then nn

We'll get that rolled out some time next week.

Thanks, that will solve the main problem.

I will seek local consensus on no-wiki for the fallback to en and add a task for that. There cannot be too many cases like Florence, Vienna etc, where we will need to add no names to the OSM.

This will be a very good feature to have, once the special cases have been solved.