Topic on VisualEditor/Feedback

Likely covered by https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/search/query/fZAt2aRx2SJe/#R .

In my opinion the insert menu in the toolbar is hard to use, and should be improved, though I don't really have good ideas about how to do so.

The main problem is, that (once you expand it) it is a really long list with no obvious order you have to really search for the tool you want to use. Just today I wanted to insert a code block on Wikipedia. Though I knew the tool must be there somewhere, I had to go through the list twice, before I spotted it. Here on mw.org the list is even longer than my screen, showing a scrollbar (though only the "Fewer" item is not visible without scrolling). Just wait some time and there will probably be even more extensions adding tools to that list.

Just some more or less random thoughts:

• The order of the tools should be reconsidered. For example, why is "Hieroglyphs" (something most users will never use) the fifth item, coming before tools that are used more often?
• Could the order and selection of the tools depend on the user and the context? For example, record how often a user uses a specific tool and provide his favourites more prominently. Or make it depend on the context: On a page with many formulae you are more likely to add another formula than on other pages.
• Would a hierarchical menu (once these are possible, which currently isn't the case) improve the usability? It would make the list shorter, but on the other hand this could force you to search several submenus, making it even worse.
• Are there other users with better ideas how to improve the insert menu?

Having used VisualEditor in non-WMF wikis, my experience was initially the same. Although that wiki didn't have as many extensions as Wikimedia wikis do. But you do get used to recognizing the icons, rather than the words in time.

The order of the tools should be reconsidered. For example, why is "Hieroglyphs" (something most users will never use) the fifth item, coming before tools that are used more often?

There is an order, it is just not obvious to some. The order of the menus is seemingly from most used items. At some point it seems that they just started appending to the list.

Could the order and selection of the tools depend on the user and the context? 

It varies by wiki, mediawiki.org doesn't really cite a lot of stuff, so they just put the cite button into it. On wikipedias that icon is in the toolbar. Changing it by context is a really bad idea because it will just end up being confusing to users who expect the button to be somewhere but changes on some pages.

Would a hierarchical menu (once these are possible, which currently isn't the case) improve the usability? 

This is one reasonable approach to grouping similar actions, whenever that is implemented.

Are there other users with better ideas how to improve the insert menu?

Until sub-menus are implemented, there are a few tricks they can use:

1. Use separators (horizontal lines) between items to separate similar actions
2. It should generally have 5-7 elements per usability guidelines with a scroll bar for more, A very long drop like that is pretty bad.
3. Group similar actions separately from frequent ones with either separators or some other visual identifier.
4. Maybe add a new widget that allows typing to filter the list, with appropriate aliases, e.g. video, photo, music -> media
5. Add an extra toolbar that can be toggled (and hidden) like the insert character menu, and this would contain other more frequently used icons.

Generally, it might be a good idea to look at what other non-WMF wikis have done, maybe shoutwiki or other wiki farms. Wikia for example, somewhat redesigned their tool bar adding a second toolbar and moving the media button (images & video) along with the gallery to this new toolbar.

Other desktop word processing software also places the media button, table button and even the graph button on the main toolbar. Flow for example took the minimalist approach and only added the bare minimum, although a "quote button is sorely needed" (maybe someone could make a gadget for that).

In the end it might be a good idea to do some analysis of the editor toolbar usage and move things based on the findings.

Apart form tools that have been 'promoted' or 'demoted' in core MediaWiki, tools are added in the order that the extensions are loaded, so there really is no order at the moment. As the tools are registered by extensions, any ordering would need to be inferred from information the extensions give us, and not from a centrally controlled list.

I'm not a huge fan of a user-stats based dynamic ordering as things moving around may be even more confusing - I may end up with different orders on every wiki I use.

I believe that this suggestion was for user-stats-based but non-dynamic ordering of the items.

I have tried to insert a template into a German Wikipedia article "Maingau" that I believe needs translating ( and it should be an article in the English Wikipedia since there is no such entry). The category is "History articles needing translation from German". I used the visual editor's insert template process but the box at the top right of the insert template box to insert the edit would never light up, or activate, so that I have failed to insert the suggested template. I have read the help several times and it indicates that the edit process is straightforward, but if the activate or insert button is not working I can't figure out what to do but notify the editors of the help document. I was logged in so I thought I had the right to edit, particularly since I was only trying to insert a template asking for translation.

Hi @DocSpenser,

I'm trying to sort out how to reproduce this problem. It sounds like you did this:

1. Go to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maingau?veaction=edit (try https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maingau?veaction=edit&uselang=en if you don't read German easily).
2. Choose Insert > Template from the menu.
3. (Then what?)

Does the reply at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Technik/Text/Edit/VisualEditor/Rückmeldungen#Inserting_a_template answer your question?

(Also, I'm not sure that you want to do this. I believe that translations from German into English are normally requested at the English Wikipedia.)