Topic on User talk:DannyH (WMF)

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Alsee (talkcontribs)

Test: replication of an actual talk page discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic:Sosjxh7uas940otj

Test result #1: Threading model. You *cannot* mix top posting and bottom posting. The result is an incoherent spaghetti.

Test result #2: Refactoring. On a Talk page I can trivially cut&paste move a single comment, or trivially cut&paste move a whole block of comments, or I can easily run down a list of comments adding or removing a colon from each. Sometimes this is a valuable solution for messy discussion problems. Flow has no apparent support for refactoring.

Test result #3: Flow information density. Assuming Wikitext =100% Default Flo mode = 41% Wide Flow mode = 48%

Awful. Yeah yeah, I read the FAQ:Why does it look like Facebook. I'm telling you, it's wrong. I've seen people citing this as a comical example of how out of touch the WMF and Flow are. Go to your programmers, tell them you're giving them a new development environment. Tell them that the new programming environment only displays 48% as much code on the screen at a time. Then give them a FAQ that the decision is based on "elaborate [Facebook] user research and A/B testing to find what works best". They won't be amused.

Test result #4: Show/hide collapse a thread of several (hypothetical)off-topic comments in the middle of the discussion. Test failed. No Flow support.


Test deleting spam/disruption: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic:Soz9gd6n6loqcbb6 Test failed. I was unable to effectively delete spam/disruption.

Disruption test #2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic:Sozaprk82vysrm1t Test failed. I was unable to effectively delete disruption.

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Editing headaches. Maybe some of these are PEBKAC?

Paste link. LINK EDIT pops up. I click all over the screen trying to get popup to go away. It doesn't want to. Until eventually it does.

+Paragraph popups also appear randomly, usually in new empty posts. Maybe I just don't know what they're for, but why would I get it in new empty posts?????

Sometimes copy-paste adds random arrows scattered between words in my text. They seem to have no effected once the post is saved, but they are a major WTF.

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1This sentence is in italics.

2Second sentence.

1This sentence is in italics. 3Go crazy attempting to TYPE new text in non-italics mode. Flow won't let me.

2Second sentence.

(Yes, eventually I realized I could LET it type in italics and convert it back, or I could switch editing modes, but jeesus that was frustrating trying to find a way to TYPE new text without italics. My eventual solution was to type the new text on the next line, and use DELETE key to merge it back onto the previous line. That was a ridiculous hacky maneuver.)

(Edit: Ok, I guess PEBKAC on that one. I was using highlight-text to apply italics. Somehow it didn't cross my mind to select the italics menu item with zero text selected.)

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  • Paragraph foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo
  • Paragraph bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar

Correct so far. Then try to move Paragraph Bar down:

  • Paragraph foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo
  • Paragraph bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar

Again I went crazy, first Flow wouldn't let me get out of italics mode, then moments later it wouldn't let me get out of damn bulletpoint mode. Deleting the bullets in the middle doesn't work. Hitting enter on a "blank" line in the middle just makes more bullets. At that point I was seriously starting to hate Visual crap. The damn format codes are invisible, and the damn "smart code" to manage them for me was going to war against me. I had to delete Paragraph BAR to kill bulletpoint mode, move down, then add Paragraph BAR again as a new Bullet. Another ridiculous hacky maneuver.

The of course then I happened to test a copy paste into a new post and got:

  • Paragraph foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo foo



  • Paragraph bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar

Copy-pasting empty bulletpoints adds <br> to them. WTF?

(Edit: WTF? The extra blank lines disappeared when I saved.... but they are visible again while I'm editing now.)

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Oh my god, every time I edit I find new bugs. I just discovered that merely clicking </> twice can mangle my post?!?!?! You have got to be kidding me. I don't know how much changed, but at a minimum my blank lines above and below my dash-lines disappear.

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