Markup-mode *needed* in editor

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No one has said anything about screwing over the visually impaired - and, in fact, there's an earlier thread about just that (visual impairment and dictation software and disabled javascript). Obviously there will be a fallback version. It will not be as feature complete - by necessity - and it will likely be clunky, slower, and less usable (as is the way of things like this).

I'm not sure where you get the "cannot copy content" from. I don't believe anyone has said anything like that.

I would like to request that we have less hyperbole. It makes the conversation needlessly hostile.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)23:58, 14 July 2013

Jorm - VE does not support copying of formatted information from one page to another. Copying a footnote (let's say, footnote 3) simply pastes a "[3]" to the new page.

It's quite common, in talk page discussions, to copy/paste wikitext that is, or includes footnotes, from articles - for example, to show what was removed by an edit. It's common - perhaps even more common - to post potential footnote to a talk page, and - if acceptable - to have them copied to the article by another editor. That's what we ask those with conflict of interest issues to do, for example.

John Broughton (talk)01:50, 15 July 2013

Yeah, and I think that's one of the things they're working on fixing. Seriously, though: I'm not on the VisualEditor team, and I can't speak for their roadmap.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)01:52, 15 July 2013

I'm not entirely sure anyone can speak for their roadmap at this point. The Engineering Roadmap and the Mediawiki Roadmap's sections on Visual Editor are maybe not so verbose.

EDIT: Though I may be being a little bit hard on the engineering road map. It does have some information, but it really isn't as detailed as I would like.

Zellfaze (talk)12:50, 15 July 2013

Though if Flow is going to rely exclusively on the VisualEditor, your feature set is their feature set, isn't it? How can you create a design for your interface if you don't know and can't control the one module that is core to the possibilities of your tool's workflow?

Diego Moya (talk)13:27, 15 July 2013

How we design in this case is to assume "worst case" and apply that as a design constraint. We have some assumptions about which constraints will be lifted or non-existent in the future, but crystal balls are hazy, murky things, and it is better to speak to what we know rather than what we assume.

Jorm (WMF) (talk)00:30, 17 July 2013

So, regarding Adam's question: does that mean that you're designing Flow around the possibility that content can not be copied from articles into discussions? (the worst case, and the current situation).

So, how is the proposed design going to overcome this constraint in order to allow current tasks that depend on that function? (such as drafting, and discussing specific article paragraphs, sentences or images).

Diego Moya (talk)10:59, 17 July 2013