Talk:Wikidata Bridge/2020

<figure-inline></figure-inline> This is the talk page about the Wikidata Bridge project. Feel free to give feedback or ask questions. Some threads are dedicated to specific questions or feedback loops.

<figure-inline></figure-inline> Dies ist die Diskussionsseite über das Wikidata Bridge-Projekt (Verknüpfung mit Wikidata). Gerne kannst Du ein Feedback geben oder Fragen stellen. Einige Themen sind bestimmten Fragen oder Feedback-Schleifen gewidmet.

"badge" for bridge enabled infoboxes

To follow them on Wikidata, wouldn't it be interesting to apply a badge to the sitelinks for such templates? Jura1 (talk) 12:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Similar to wikidatapowered, for instance. Amadalvarez (talk) 13:49, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello there, I think that you two talk about different things :)

Jura suggests a badge that would be displayed on Wikidata, next to the Wikipedia sitelink, such as the quality badges. We didn't plan this so far, we would need to see how we can retrieve the information that a Wikipedia page uses a Bridge-powered infobox.

The template mentioned by Amadalvarez can be included in the design of the infobox on Wikipedia. We could indeed think about how a Bridge-powered infobox could be visually recognized from another infobox, without having to click on the edit button.

Thanks for both suggestions! Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 15:27, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, @Lea Lacroix (WMDE). I see now.

Taking advantage that @Charlie Kritschmar (WMDE) did the "powered by Wikidata logo", may I suggest you to create a similar style image to included in the templates documentation page ?.

Thanks Amadalvarez (talk) 16:30, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Hm .. interesting ideas, something like Special:GlobalUsage/Wikidata_Stamp_Rec_Light.svg could be used to track usage.

I think most badges at Wikidata are bot added/maintained (based on categories), this could easily be expanded to this usecase. I suppose the badge could be non-visual, e.g. merely found by query. Jura1 (talk) 17:09, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Here is an item that could be used:

• d:Q87344346

Also one for the usecase mentioned by Amadalvarez:

• d:Q87344595

Would you kindly make both available at Wikidata? Jura1 (talk) 13:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Could we use d:property:P1552 to add the tag in templates affected ? Amadalvarez (talk) 18:56, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

It would go on the sitelinks once it set up by the devs (see d:Help:Badges ) Jura1 (talk) 19:07, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah. Obviously, because is not a characteristic of template, but of template use in a site. Amadalvarez (talk) 19:23, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello there,

I created a Phabricator task. However, just to be transparent with you, this is not a priority for us at the moment: first, we want to actually finish developing the first version of the Bridge, get it out on some wikis and support the communities to use it, after that we can consider enabling a badge :) Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 12:11, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, @Lea Lacroix (WMDE). Obviously, priorities are priorities. I take advantage to inform you that all our WD_Powered infoboxes are ready to link with Bridge. If you wish, you can account on us to make tests. Amadalvarez (talk) 12:28, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

New prototype: editing references and license information

Hello all,

As we are working on the first version of the Bridge, we have been focusing on two specific areas and we would like to ask your opinion about it.

The first one is editing references. In the first version of the Bridge, we won’t be able to offer the possibility to edit or add references directly in the interface, therefore we will redirect editors to Wikidata.

The second part is information related to the license. We want to make sure that editors are aware that their contribution will be published under CC0, the license of Wikidata, and avoid any misunderstanding. We tried to adapt the standard license information message and to integrate it smoothly in the Bridge interface.

If you want, you can also have a look at the interface behaviour when the user’s connection is too slow to properly launch the Bridge, and when a permission error occurs (if the user is blocked on Wikipedia).

You can check the different paths on this prototype. Please keep in mind that it is a click-dummy, not a fully functioning interface, and most of the time you can only click on one element to progress through the path.

We would also like to point out that some functionality that you might have seen in the previous prototype has been removed. The reason behind it is that we wanted to show you the Bridge as it is planned to be rolled out on the very first wiki for testing it’s first features. The previous prototype included features of the second roll out stage that are currently not under development.

We’re looking forward to hearing what you experienced while testing: what did work for you, what didn’t? Did anything block you or happened unexpectedly?

Thanks in advance! Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 09:44, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I think we should not access to Wikidata interface as easily: for Wikipedia editors, it is nice to edit Wikidata without exiting Wikipedia. So, in my opinion, it is a bad idea to display a final blue towards Wikidata. Probably the final blue button should be a simple “Done” which would exit the modal window, and you would provide another “Edit on Wikidata” advanced button (maybe with gears symbol). I mean: the default UX would probably not include to finish to Wikidata instead of Wikipedia (else, creating a bridge is pretty useless).

Also, redirecting to Phabricator is not a good idea either: this is not a user-friendly interface, besides it requires O-auth connection. You should insert a form bridged interface, as the one in VisualEditor. Or just redirecting to a structured discussion on mediawiki.org.

Hoping I’m clear, I thank you for your work! Pols12 (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I’ve forgotten: there is bug with the license warning: the “Don’t show this message again” checkbox is only displayed after you’ve submitted “Publish changes” (so it is not reachable). Pols12 (talk) 22:28, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello Pols12, and thanks for your feedback!

• Regarding the links to Wikidata: the first versions of the tool will not allow editing certain data types, because it's a complex technical feature that will require more time. It's the case for references, for example, that won't be handled in the first version of the tool. However, we don't want to leave the editors with a closed path "no sorry you can't perform this action at all", and we definitely want to suggest them to update references. That's why we suggest them to go to Wikidata if they want to make the change.
• Regarding the checkbox, thanks for noticing it, we are going to have a look. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 10:05, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

feedback of Wikidata contributors for Wikidata Bridge users

Maybe this is explained somewhere, but I was wondering how Bridge users would notice feedback they might receive on their edits. Supposedly Wikidata contributors would just comment on the user's Wikidata talk page. Do they get notified about it by default?

So far, we have seen two models:

• mobile description edit tool. Wikidata are meant to revert the edits so the users gets notified about problems and eventually removed from the user group
• w:Wikipedia:Shortdesc helper where some users don't seem to get notified or react at all.

The Russian js tool might have another approach. Jura1 (talk) 11:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

As far as I know, notifications work cross-wikis. Which means if someone edits from Catalan Wikipedia with the Bridge, and another user write on their Wikidata talk page, or ping them with the ping feature on any talk page on Wikidata, they will receive a notification. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 12:49, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

It is possible to turn cross-wiki notifications off, but as default I believe it is turned on. Jeblad (talk) 14:05, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Maybe there should be some info to users to re-activate that or view Wikidata changes in watchlists.

Just to avoid the recent experience with "Shortdesc helper". Jura1 (talk) 15:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

After we were about to block the second script user over it, the option for shortdesc helper was changed (d:Wikidata:Project_chat#w:Wikipedia:Shortdesc_helper). Jura1 (talk) 05:36, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

We tag every edit made through the Bridge. Would that be enough for now to spot that the editor might need to be pinged on their home-wiki? Also keep in mind that I expect very few edits to come through the Bridge in this first version because the existing templates on-wiki need to be adjusted to opt-in and the Bridge can initially only edit datatype string. That should cut it down a lot. Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Note that shortdesc is supported on very few wikis, and the idea that something should be locally overridden in this manner is somewhat weird and counterintuitive. It is more of an indication that projects lack integration as it is now.

Make sure that Wikidata Bridge is only available for logged-in users, and the user has enabled cross-wiki notifications. Jeblad (talk) 11:44, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Is there a way to know if the users have notifications enabled?

Let's see how it goes. It's also less likely to generate a high volume of scripted edits as "shortdesc helper" does. Jura1 (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

V1 of Wikidata Bridge is almost ready to be tested on Wikipedia

Hello all,

I have exciting news to share about the Wikidata Bridge! We’re getting close to being able to deploy the first version of Wikidata Bridge. This means that once we achieve the last steps of development, we are ready to experiment with the Wikipedia communities who are willing to try the Bridge on their wiki.

Below, I will summarize what this first version contains and what it does not contain, what the next steps are for us to reach, and how we will work with the communities to deploy the tool step by step.

Feel free to leave comments on this thread and to share this message with your local Wikipedia community!

Summary of what is included in the v1

It is important to understand that the product we are ready to deploy is not the final version. As mentioned on the /development page, we are starting with a first version, with which we want to make sure that the concept fits your needs before moving forward. This means that the communities who are willing to try it will have the opportunity to be involved very early in the process; however, this also means that the product at that point is far from perfect and does not include all the features you expect from it yet.

The v1 will allow you to:

• Enable the Bridge for the infoboxes that you choose, by updating their Lua code and template
• Edit some Wikidata values directly from Wikipedia, values having the datatype string: for example, postal code, Commons category…
• Fix the existing value or update an outdated value, after asking you why you changed the value. This will ensure that the correct edit is made on Wikidata for you including setting ranks correctly
• Display the existing references coming from Wikidata
• Be redirected to Wikidata in case the action you want to perform is not available in the Bridge yet

The v1 doesn’t allow yet:

• Editing values other than strings (for example, other Items, coordinates)
• Adding new values
• Editing Wikidata references from within the Bridge
• Editing local values or switch from local values to values coming from Wikidata

You can read more details on the features on the development page.

Where are we going to deploy?

It is really important to us to work with wiki communities who are onboard with the project and willing to test the first versions of the Bridge. We also want to start with a small scope (only one Wikipedia), learn from our experience, and deploy slowly on new wikis.

Catalan Wikipedia seems like a good start for several reasons: its community is already using Wikidata-powered infoboxes, several people mentioned their enthusiasm for the Bridge and participated in the discussions, and the size of the wiki seems good for experiments. Therefore we would like to start with deploying on Catalan Wikipedia. A few months later, we would follow with 2 to 3 new wikis. Currently, we have in mind the Basque, Romanian, and Russian Wikipedia, based on their existing use of Wikidata-powered infoboxes and interest for the project. If other wikis are interested, they can let us know and we could consider including them in the next rounds.

We will not deploy this first version before making an announcement to the communities and asking for their approval first. This is the part where we need your help! You can talk to your community about the project, help us translate information, for example this message, and prepare the ground for a community consultation, based on the rules in place on your wiki (vote, RFC, etc.)

What are the next steps?

This timeline is not complete and can evolve based on multiple factors. We’re sorry that we cannot give you more precise dates for now, but new announcements will follow.

• Test the Bridge on a beta system: already possible here
• Performance review of the code (done by WMF): unknown, it can take a few more weeks
• Community consultation on Catalan Wikipedia: started here
• Roll out on the first Wikipedia: will be announced once the performance review is done and that we adapted our code if needed
• Monitor the usage of the tool, fix possible issues, get feedback from the community
• More work on Bridge v2: later this year
• Possible roll out on new wikis: end of 2020 or early 2021

Thanks for reading this long message. If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to leave a comment below. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 08:08, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for posting. I will ask around.

I have a request - consider if this deployment is time for a general wiki community conversation. If it is, can you do the deployment with a little project announcement which I could use to make a story in the English Wikipedia community newsletter, The Signpost? I would rather that this conversation happen sooner and more slowly, so talking about this as a pilot or experiment sooner seems appropriate. I expect that English Wikipedia will be one of the late projects to consider adopting this, but I would like to raise awareness there. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in the topic, and for your offer to write something in the Signpost.

I agree that it would be interesting to start discussions soon on wikis that will need more time to consider adopting the Bridge, for example English Wikipedia. We planned to reach big Wikipedias relatively soon in the process, once we successfully test the feature on small and medium-size Wikipedias where communities actively support the use of Wikidata.

However, I would be careful to not make this step too soon: at the moment, as described in the announcement, the version we have is quite far from the final product we want to deliver. For example, it doesn't allow editing all data types, it doesn't show the edit in the edit history on Wikipedia, etc. Showing this to people and letting them think that this will be the final Bridge feature could be very counterproductive, as they would point out (rightfully) that the feature is not answering their needs.

We would be interested in continuing this discussion with you in the near future, and we would definitely appreciate your support when bringing the topic to English Wikipedia. Let's stay in touch, maybe we can schedule a call with you in the next months. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 13:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

please change "a wrong" to "an incorrect" value

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Minor feedback,

but could you please change the text string "I corrected a wrong value" to "I corrected an incorrect value", in the english version?

I'm not a linguist so I can't tell you grammatically-speaking why "a wrong value" seems too vague and odd, especially when paired with the quite scientific and precise alternative option of "I updated an outdated value". The word "wrong" also has a secondary meaning of morality - that something is wrong because it is bad; whereas "incorrect" can only mean not-true. Thanks :-) Wittylama (talk) 15:41, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I believe Wittylama is pretty much an expert in English compare to the WMDE team! :D

And yes, I do agree with him on this. Jeblad (talk) 13:15, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Wittylama and thanks for your feedback. This totally make sense. We will consider changing the word - I created a Phabricator task for further discussions and work. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 09:05, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Visual Editor

As far as I can see, you can only use this feature while reading the page. (It appears to work in both desktop in mobile mode, which is very good.)

However, it doesn't appear to work in Visual Editor. It should be possible. Amir E. Aharoni {{🌎🌍🌏}} 11:53, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the whole idea to add edit interface in a read mode is wrong, it creates a very messy mental model. This is a type of interface that should only be available in VisualEditor. You open the page for editing, and then as part of this editing the infobox will be possible. That has the added benefit of avoiding the overcrowding the small box with tiny edit-links (the pencil symbol). Jeblad (talk) 13:32, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Allowing editing in read mode is not a bad idea at all. Lots of people love editing categories in HotCat, for example. The more items are editable in small chunks, without having to edit a whole page, the better. Amir E. Aharoni {{🌎🌍🌏}} 21:03, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I disagree on that, but I have lost that dispute a long time ago. Jeblad (talk) 21:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I wanted to have it integrated in the Visual Editor from the start first but unfortunately several technical considerations moved us away from that for the initial versions. It's definitely not off the table for later versions. Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 10:17, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Instructions for template developers

The template Infobox telescope prototype invokes Module:Wikidata and Module:WikidataBridge.

Does this mean that every wiki that wants to use Wikidata Bridge will have to a have wiki pages with these modules?

More generally, how will templates on various wikis be adapted to using Wikidata Bridge? Is there an existing instructions page? Amir E. Aharoni {{🌎🌍🌏}} 11:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata Bridge/Development/DocDrafts/How to Enable Wikidata Bridge for your Infobox is the draft for the instructions page; we’ll finish it up and move it out of “doc drafts” before the first version is released. All that matters to the Bridge is that the final HTML of the page matches the criteria listed on that page; for the showcase, we did that using an infobox template and two Lua modules, because we figured that’s roughly how it would work on e. g. English Wikipedia, but that’s not a requirement. Our browser tests, for example, create Bridge-enabled edit links (here) with plain wikitext, without involving any templates or modules. Lucas Werkmeister (WMDE) (talk) 12:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Note that the “single best” pattern are extremely rare in a person-related infobox, it does exist for infoboxes with office positions, but there it should really use the last value from time series and not “preferred”.

At nowiki we don't use postal code or category in the infoboxes, they are used as examples in Talk:Wikidata Bridge/2020#h-V1_of_Wikidata_Bridge_is_almost_ready_to_be_tested_on_Wikipedia-2020-05-05T08:08:00.000Z. I do see the need to start simple, but this isn't very useful. Jeblad (talk) 13:12, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Pencil icons

At nowiki there are some users that complain loudly about the pencil icon. I tried to do some changes to see how it would turn out in full use, and there will be way to many such icons. It will probably not be acceptable for the users that complain about a few links today.

So, how can it be changed to become acceptable. One option would be adding an edit-link above the infobox to turn them all on, and to replace that with a reload-link when the pencil icons are visible. After reload the edit-link will be back. That would make the links less annoying, but I don't know if it is enough to stop the users from complaining. Jeblad (talk) 14:58, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

On desktop it’s possible to use the hover css property to show them only if the mouse is on them. The equivalent on mobile device may be possible as a tap on the data.

There has been a lot of debate on this on frwiki, it turns out we kept them at least on some infoboxes even if people complained because there was also a requirement by community decision to highlight the data that come from Wikidata as opposed as data present in the article code as an infobox parameter (external project signaling), and the pencils do that job. This usually settled the discussion, and mostly now complains have stopped. TomT0m (talk) 16:08, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I proposed to use hover or doubleclick (doubletap – scary name for those into action movies) to turn the pencil icons on through an additional gadget. It just adds a class that overrides <code>display:none</code> for the links. It is pretty straightforward to do.

Interesting argument that use of the pencil shows use of Wikidata, thus it is what the community wants. Jeblad (talk) 16:38, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

The people who complain, finally agree when discover how usefull is. Use hover css may have collisions with link to value (article or item).

In cawiki we had a debate and change size and a soft gray and editors agreed:

Models: english <figure-inline class="mw-valign-text-top"></figure-inline>, french <figure-inline class="mw-valign-baseline"></figure-inline>, catalan <figure-inline></figure-inline>, smaller catalan <figure-inline class="mw-valign-baseline"></figure-inline>.

In addition we have also an icon label (<figure-inline></figure-inline>) to link to label of the value when is not in catalan. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:49, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Using gray icons is not wise, as it don't signal interaction. That is they signal “disabled”. Jeblad (talk) 17:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

we finally use the smaller catalan. It's black, but not solid color.

Amadalvarez (talk) 18:07, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

After my last explanation, my colleague @Vriullop added some features in our Module:Wikidades in order to use/don't at invoke, template o installation level with editicon parameter (may see doc in English). It also allows aligning pencils at right side in order to have a more "ordered view" of infobox.

Last new, for those people who don't like pencils and are not willing to update WD (not very interesting for our goals, btw!) it's possible to hide pencil at user level adding a sort code in the user/vector.css.

We hope it may be useful for other WD_Bridge users.

CC.@Lea Lacroix (WMDE) Amadalvarez (talk) 16:44, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

The need section

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Just under the section heading - 'the need', a statement is given: “I want the information that appears on Wikipedia to be editable on Wikipedia”. My doubt is: should the last word 'Wikipedia' be replaced by Wikidata? Because Wikipedia can be edited on Wikipedia itself. Adithyak1997 (talk) 15:51, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

'Wikipedia' is correct here. If the information comes from Wikidata then it's not directly editable in Wikipedia itself and this is exactly why the Wikidata Bridge is needed. VIGNERON (talk) 15:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Documentation page: how to update the infobox code

Hello all,

I just wanted to let you know that the documentation page about how to update the infoboxes code once the Bridge extension is enabled is complete and ready to translate.

If you have any questions, or if you feel like something is missing on this page, let me know.

More information about the upcoming deployment of the first version of the Bridge on Catalan Wikipedia will follow next week. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 10:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there any templates in frwiki already using the bridge ? Bouzinac (talk) 09:27, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

The Bridge has not been enabled anywhere for now. We will start in July this year with Catalan Wikipedia, in the future a few more small Wikipedias where the community is actively willing to test it. French Wikipedia will hopefully come later, of course after a proper discussion with the community and once some extra features will be added. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 10:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata Bridge v1 to be deployed on Catalan Wikipedia

Hello all,

On August 18th, we will deploy the first version of the Wikidata Bridge on Catalan Wikipedia. Thanks again to the CAWP community for your enthusiasm and constructive feedback!

You will find the announcement here (in Catalan). As a reminder, here is the list of the features that will be included in the v1, and the ones that are not there yet. The test page is still available here (may occasionally contain bugs or new features in development).

If you’re willing to support the future integration of Wikidata Bridge, here’s how you can help:

• Translate the infobox update documentation page in your language
• Start a discussion and/or a documentation with your Wikipedia community to raise awareness about the feature
• Ask any questions you may have on this talk page

After many months designing and developing the v1 of the Bridge, we’re really excited to see it tested live! Cheers, Léa Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 11:55, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Create new Items if needed

Hello,

I was at a meeting with editors of a LocalWiki called FürthWiki and they use SemanticMediaWiki and then I saw how they edit the data with forms. I think that a form is a helpful thing for editing data. In Wikidata it is currently possible to use it for creating new items with WikidataCradle. Do you plan to offer forms for creating items in a further version. For example a mayor of a city is a example where a item about it does usually not exist in a little village before the election. So this is something what has to be created when editing the value in the Infobox. Have you plans how you want to solve this. Hogü-456 (talk) 19:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, we will have to offer a way to create new items through the Bridge in the future. This is quite a complex topic and we are not fully decided on how we want to tackle this. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 08:47, 29 September 2020 (UTC)