Talk:Contributors/Projects/Removal of the 2006 wikitext editor

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Cannot get working through personal common.js

6
Billinghurst (talkcontribs)

@Trizek (WMF) I cannot seem to get the js working in my personal common.js at enWS. I have usually just been able to mw.loader.load them, and here I see that I need to mw.loader.using wrap that. I have tried with a combination of variation of dependencies ext.gadget.mediawiki.toolbar though still failing. :-(

And I understand that I have to add my own buttons, I have some of my own config'd buttons already in that same js page. I know that the page is javascript is loading fine as the other components coded are showing in the sidebar. Can you please help? Thanks.

Billinghurst (talkcontribs)

Could someone please point to the old toolbar code with its configuration for buttons, so that the English version can be seen and copied (well, as much copied/re-rendered as it may be).

Billinghurst (talkcontribs)
Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hello Billinghurst

I guess you ping me because my username is used in the example?

I'm afraid I can't help, because I'm not a technical person at all. I let @Arkanosis assist you, since he is the creator of the alternative suggested on the page.

Billinghurst (talkcontribs)

Yep, it says "unchanged from Trizek's code". If it isn't your code then some less possessive text may be wiser.

Trizek (WMF) (talkcontribs)

He has copied the personalized code I had with the former editor to show how it should be changed: "Apart from the mw.loader.using bit, this example code has been copied unchanged from Trizek's code."

Reply to "Cannot get working through personal common.js"
Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

I don't believe that and I should like to know on what basis this is claimed. Within a couple of hours a lot of high-volume editors from German wikipedia was affected by this change, and they were extremely angry. This is obviously not a "tiny fraction" but a considerable number of the most active users.

Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

I tried to explain the story on de:Wikipedia Diskussion:Kurier as far as I understood it. The essence is: In German wikipedia, about 2009, the special characters list was introduced using code from the toolbar 2006. This worked fine for many editors. So they didn't use the 2010 Editor because its handling is much worse, specifically concerning the special characters. For this reason, in German wikipedia the 2006 Editor has been used by a very considerable number of long-time high-volume users up to now. You (meaning the Mediawiki developers) did not know about this wide-spread use in de.wp. You gleaned from "data" that this is only a "tiny fraction" of editors which might be correct in an international dimension, but definitely not for German wikipedia. Therefore, you decided to stop supporting the 2006 Editor but you did not foresee that this would mean that on de.wp the special character list would be disabled, too. This was the reason for the storm of indignation.

So there is obviously a problem of information and communication between Mediawiki developers and (in this case: German) community. I think that you are generally interested to know how the tools you are programming are used on a daily basis, but you did not have this important information. It would have been possible to detect this problem in advance since there are users (at least on de.wp) that foresaw it, but they didn't "come through."

Perhaps a kind of "ambassador" is needed: someone who ensures that you get the information you need from the communities and who ensures, on the other hand, that users without technical knowledge understand what a technical change means for them. Maybe it's a kind of language problem: not only English vs. German, but more so developers vs. (non-tech) users.

Reply to "Tiny fraction of editors"

" The team chose this option because the editors who are still using this old toolbar regularly tend to be high-volume editors"

20
Man77 (talkcontribs)

Oh yes. Take away the tools those ungrateful high-volume editors have used for the production of the already mentioned high-volume contents. Really, really great idea. Has there anyone ever thought if there could be some kind of good reason why high-volume editors' preferences are the way they are?

AKlapper (WMF) (talkcontribs)

For the records, the quote continues with ", and the 2003 wikitext editor will load more quickly and take up less space on their screens than the alternatives."

Man77 (talkcontribs)

Which is everything that matters. Who cares if editing efficiently is possible with the 2003 version, if only it loads faster.

Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

I am sure that the "data" will not bear out the claim that only a "tiny part" of active users are using this editor. In some hours, a respectable number of high-volume users on German wikipedia uttered great dismay ("me, too") and the number is growing by the hour. I don't care about "less space" but about usability.

Voyager (talkcontribs)

Great idea, let's piss off the high-volume authors without warning them beforehand. Who needs them anyway? It's their own fault that they use such an old editor.

Seriously: How are we ever going to gain new authors if you anger the existing ones?

Ghilt (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Based on comments at Meta, it appears that editors at the German Wikipedia are asking for CharInsert, not the 2006WTE.

Ghilt (talkcontribs)

Yeah, in part. But both were removed, why? Beside being used by high-volume editors, for new users it raises the hurdle to use wikitext, which is much faster in writing than VE.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Both were not removed. Only the 2006WTE (the blue-gray buttons at the top of the editing window) was removed.

It appears that CharInsert disappeared because the German Wikipedia had a bug in its local gadget. I hear that a dewiki admin has fixed your local gadget.

Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

It is better since that edit but not good. The previous special characters list was much, much better. It permitted to look for special characters in languages that use the Latin alphabet, for one thing. No, the only thing that really compensated for the change to the worse was this tool. It should be a standard preference.

Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

They were simultaneously removed by the fallback to the 2003 editor, as far as I understand. This is extremely annoying. You don't seem to understand that a lot of us are simply interested in a simple-to-use standard tool that permits us to contribute content. We had this tool, suddenly it doesn't work any more. There is no adequate replacement. Now we have to look for a replacement that does nothing else but to bring back the functionalities we lost due to your actions. This can't be right.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

I would be extremely annoyed if CharInsert disappeared, too. But these are still the facts:

  • The problem is not the removal of the blue-gray toolbar from the top.
  • The problem is not the use of the 2003 wikitext editor.
  • The problem is dewiki's broken gadget.

Would you like to see proof that CharInsert still works, even without the 2006 wikitext editor? The 2006 wikitext editor was removed at this wiki a week ago. Go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and turn off the "Enhanced toolbar" (and the "New wikitext mode" in Beta Features, if you have it enabled). That will set your editing environment to the 2003 wikitext editor. Then click on this link: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Whatamidoing_(WMF)/Sandbox?action=submit to open a page in the 2003 wikitext editor. Scroll down past the edit summary, and see the CharInsert tool. Notice that it has a very extensive list of special characters.

The only (relevant) difference between this wiki and the German Wikipedia is that the German Wikipedia has a broken gadget that's screwing up the CharInsert/EditTools tools, and this wiki does not.

Mautpreller (talkcontribs)

You are right that it works on this wiki. However, it worked on de.wp as well. It stopped working exactly at the moment the old toolbar was removed. Maybe there is a broken gadget on de.wp but it did work exactly as long as the old toolbar was on. So it seems there is a connection. Maybe the code was written so that it drew on the toolbar code (I don't know how to express it correctly, I am not a techie), and as soon as the toolbar was switched off, the gadget stopped to work. It is obvious that these two things are related.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The gadget might draw on the old toobar code; it is old enough that it would not be surprising. The interface admins at the German Wikipedia can fix the gadget (or remove it, and use the default instead).

Ghilt (talkcontribs)
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

This page documents a replacement script. If anyone wants those blue-gray buttons back, then they should install the script. It can be used by individuals by adding it to common.js (for use at dewiki alone) or at global.js on Meta (for use everywhere). It can be used by whole communities if one of your interface admins would install it as a gadget on dewiki.

Ghilt (talkcontribs)

It should be active by default, as it used to be. Not by commons.js or global.js. Also for IP-editors.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

The 2006 wikitext editor should not be active "by default", as "the default" has been the 2010 wikitext editor for at least seven years, and you will have hundreds or thousands, rather than dozens, of editors complaining if you force them back to older and less capable technology. IP editors have not been able to use the 2006 wikitext editor for years.

If you don't want to install this volunteer-maintained user script as a personal user script, then you must convince one of the interface admins at your wiki to install it as a gadget. It is not that difficult to do, but it can only be done by your local interface admins.

AFBorchert (talkcontribs)

Many at de:wp are missing the functionality of de:MediaWiki:Onlyifediting.js which depended on the toolbar which is now gone. This tool was quite popular as it allowed the selection of special character sets by language.

Ghilt (talkcontribs)

Ok, it didn't use to be default, but imho it should. And i would wish that WMF only changes a running system, if it isn't broken by the change. The assumption that it is rarely used is, at least for de.wp, incorrect.

Reply to "" The team chose this option because the editors who are still using this old toolbar regularly tend to be high-volume editors""
Infovarius (talkcontribs)

How to continue to use it?

Malyacko (talkcontribs)
Infovarius (talkcontribs)

I see only that there could be alternatives, but there are no yet?

Malyacko (talkcontribs)

Someone has to write one and maintain it...

Infovarius (talkcontribs)

It was working good and now it should be again written... What a <s>re</s>progress!

Reply to "Old panel is cool!"
Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)
Thibaut120094 (talkcontribs)

We just want to keep the blue buttons and the ability to personalize them, that's all.

The very few buttons in the Vector toolbar are useful for newbies but a bit limited for experienced users.

Ciencia Al Poder (talkcontribs)

I assume there wouldn't be a problem if the old toolbar can come back with an extension or gadget, available in all WMF wikis that each user can enable on its own.

The linked task and this project page doesn't make it clear if the current old toolbar will still be available or every user that wants it would need to hack it on their own...

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Any editor should feel free to re-implement the code as a user script/gadget.

From phab:T30856#3325233, the French Wikipedia may have already done so.

Reply to "At frwp"
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