Project:Village Pump/Flow/2020/02

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Manual:DumpBackup.php obsolete reference SVN

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In seventh chapter 'See also' svn:branches/ariel/xmldumps-backup/is a svn link leading to an empty search box; delete this link or is there an equivalent ? Thanks.

Christian FR (talk) 20:38, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

I've fixed the link to the current location Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 21:49, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

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Manual:Profiling obsolete path references in foot notes

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Hi all, the two last links in footnotes are no longuer actual. can someone realign please ? Thanks. :

  
# Use [[phab:source/mediawiki/browse/master/maintenance/archives/patch-profiling.sql|maintenance/archives/patch-profiling.sql]] script
#Source code of StartProfiler.sample, [[phab:/r/p/mediawiki/core;browse/master/StartProfiler.sample|StartProfiler.sample]]

This also applies partially to page Manual:Profiling_table .

Christian FR (talk) 12:07, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

?? no response ?? Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 22:04, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I've updated the pages and removed that information, since it's now obsolete Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 17:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

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Outdated link

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At Help:Extension:Kartographer#<mapframe> usage you are referring to the GeoJSON editor geojson.io which is no longer maintained Source: https://github.com/mapbox/geojson.io

I suggest to change it to an up-to-date one like https://geoman.io/ Etagenyeti (talk) 11:17, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

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Talk page needs moved

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Extension talk:MediaFunctions has a single comment, a Liquified version of a wikitext comment originally left in 2007. This comment is unrelated to the current extension, which usurped an older extension of the same name earlier in 2007 (the dates don't make it obvious, but the contents of the comment do: they relate to Special:Version being unviewable, caused by an accented character in the author's name, Stephane Brunner; this is the name of the author of the usurped extension). I tried moving the talk page (and subpages) to the old extension, but because there's already a LQT talk page there, it was prevented, and I don't have the experience to know how to fix this myself. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{☎ Dinoguy1000} 00:56, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Done. I

1. moved Extension talk:MediaFunctions to Extension talk:MediaFunctions (old) without leaving a redirect
2. moved page Extension talk:MediaFunctions/LQT Archive 1 to Extension talk:MediaFunctions (old)/LQT Archive 1 without leaving a redirect

Note that both targets had existent pages with no important content (no thread and no good content/history). I had to delete them to make a way for move. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 01:33, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Masum! =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:55, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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Update URL on Extension:Full Local Image

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The existing WikiIndex url needs updating to a newer (current) URL - https://WikiIndex.org ~ 78.32.143.113 (talk) 23:19, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I am seeing a HTTP 500 error if I visit the site. How it will be helpful if I just change the URL? Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 23:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

I am guessing you are clicking on the old WikiIndex dot '''com''' site. It is now at WikiIndex dot '''org'''. It is now also https, and drops the leading 'www'. Regards. 78.32.143.113 23:28, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

https://wikiindex.org/ redirects to https://wikiindex.org/Welcome . I tried using a proxy to access the site, but I am getting the same HTTP 500 error every time. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 23:34, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Works for me. Maybe it's an intermittent problem. Anyway, URL changed. Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 10:22, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

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Manual:$wgSpamRegex dead link http://wiki.chongqed.org

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At the end of first section "This example incorporates common spamming keywords...." external link CSS hidden spam is dead.

[http://wiki.chongqed.org//CSSHiddenSpam CSS hidden spam].

Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 22:51, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

I've updated it providing a URL of the web archive Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

I dont see the difference : the link 'CSS hidden spam' is still not resolved on the root page (value: http://wiki.chongqed.org//CSSHiddenSpam) Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 12:36, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm not seeing it here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgSpamRegex#CSS_Hidden_Spam

Where are you seeing that link? Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 18:50, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Shirayuki has made a silent correction so we cannot follow the tracability here.

Refer to : https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:$wgSpamRegex&diff=3669424&oldid=3667161 Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 20:34, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

using

[http://web.archive.org/web/20071020170248/http://wiki.chongqed.org/CSSHiddenSpam CSS hidden spam].

Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 20:37, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

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Duplicate anchors for translation

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People who know about translation (of pages at this wiki), please take a look at the discussion at User talk:Shirayuki/2020#h-Redundant_anchors-2020-02-17T12:59:00.000Z and explain to me (here) why inserting "manual" anchors that duplicate existing section headings, as in this edit is "required" to make translation work. Or, if that is not actually the case, explain that to User:Shirayuki (there). dcljr (talk) 04:25, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

For convenience, when linking to sections from translated pages, the English anchor name is used, to prevent it to be translated and then the section title may have a different translation, causing the link to point to a not existing anchor.

This is one way to solve it, but of course has issues. This can be partially solved if we create a new template for this, that only includes the anchor when inserted on a translated page and not on the main one. However, it will still generate duplicate IDs on translated pages where the section title hasn't been translated and defaults to the English one, or by coincidence the translated section is the same in English.

Another option would be to generate specific anchor IDs not in use by section titles, but that won't be obvious when used inside links. Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 14:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Not understanding all implications, but if that template would contain as parameters

1. English section title
2. (optional) translated section title

the template might decide whether both are equal, and create auxilary anchor iff they differ.

Then the section might be addressed always by both English or local name, and will be shown with local name, if needed to be provided. PerfektesChaos (talk) 15:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

That would require 2 translation units, one for the section title and another for the parameter of that template. It's like my first proposal, except that it only would cause duplicate IDs in the rare case that the template parameter is translated but the section title is not Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 18:52, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

It does not create any duplicate.

Template programming would compare both English and other, and create auxilary anchor iff (if and only if) they differ (and on non-English page).

For keywords, names, codes it might easily happen that the title is not translatable. PerfektesChaos (talk) 20:59, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

That would be possible only if the template is responsible of rendering the section title itself, not the current implementation of the anchor template that's rendered outside of the section title. Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 21:16, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it is dedicated to some {{Template:TranslationHeadline|english|local}} with optional local translation.

If english not equal to local then add additional id="".

Since the entire thing is dealing with headlines, it may also bear the headline markup by == or <h2> business with further parameter level (2, 3, 4):

• {{TranslationHeadline|level|english|local}} PerfektesChaos (talk) 11:20, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi all . Having fighted with rereading I confirm the anchor is needed because the reference use it. The reference is generally hidden to the translator so that the anchored text to be always at the same position. More of that the anchor is NEVER translated that means it is outside of the 'translate' sections. Then when you read the documentation you see that in the english text, all sections '==' are automatically anchored (call to template is not explicitly required) and this works in the english text but no longer in the translated text because the section title has been internationalized so that the english anchor must be set manually in the root page. At last we can say anchor can be anything but we use the text of the following section to have an idea of what it is about. Multiple anchor definitions of the same referenced element are allowed and they are here to facilitate the calling from different contributors point of view. No major problem found with Template anchor until now.

Christian FR (talk) 12:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Just in case anyone reading this doesn't already know, multiple anchors can be tied to a single section heading using something like:

==<span id="Alternate1"></span><span id="Alternate2"></span>Section==

In this case, "Section" is what is displayed (on, say, the page "Article"), and can be linked to using:

[[Article#Section]]

but these links lead to the same target:

[[Article#Alternate1]]

[[Article#Alternate2]]

This is better than using a template call separate from the heading (and can be accomplished by "subst:"ing the {{Anchor }} template inside the heading itself), because it avoids having a template call at the end of one section that actually refers to the next section (as happens if the template call is placed above the section heading) and places the anchor inside the section heading itself, unlike what would happen if a template call was used after the section heading. It also produces clean a page history, because the software automatically ignores the 'span' element(s) in that context. For details, see w:Template:Anchor.

I think this approach would also allow translation to proceed in the usual way — e.g., by using, say:

==<span …></span>Section== <!--T:11-->

Am I wrong? dcljr (talk) 23:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I have not tried this form, but ok if you confirm. All '==' section titles I have met are 'pure' without any overloading. Thus the contents is isolated from the format and it complies with the recommendations of the site. Format uses CSS or content-external declarations like the anchors set apart). Recommendations also reject the beautify actions or presence of link references in titles. On the other side, when separating contents from format, we immediately identify what is where. Keep also in mind that 'anchor' can reference any part of the html page and not titles only. Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 07:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Just FYI: I think I understand the first two sentences of what Wladek92 just said, but pretty much nothing after that. Since I do not know anything about translation, people should not rely on me to act on any recommendations put forth in this discussion. dcljr (talk) 05:38, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

That would be my option 2 of my first message. Note that such spans should be inside <tvar> sections to prevent translators to changing them, and also remove that markup from translations Ciencia Al Poder (talk) 10:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Since this discussion has petered out, I'd like to ask the participants (or anyone else) whether any consensus has actually been arrived at, and if so, what actions have been taken as a result. Have any instructions/recommendations about translation been changed anywhere? Is anyone doing translation differently? If not, then nothing will have been gained by anything said here. dcljr (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

I have answered to your question requesting clarification and dont see what is wrong or should be modified : "explain to me (here) why inserting "manual" anchors that duplicate existing section headings".

Christian FR (talk) 17:04, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. You may have tried to answer my question, but I'm afraid it did not serve as "clarification" from my perspective.

Since you say you don't see what is wrong, I will explain in great detail:

The way the "anchor" template is being used on pages like Help:Links results in multiple "id" attributes having the same value in the generated HTML. This makes the HTML invalid.

The current version of Help:Links contains the following duplicate "id" attribute values:

• Internal_links
• External_links
• External_links_to_internal_pages
• Interwiki_links
• Interlanguage_links
• See_also

In the first case, for example, the wiki markup:

{{anchor|Internal|Internal links}}

<translate>

== Internal links == <!--T:3-->

results in the following generated HTML:

<p><span id="Internal"></span><span id="Internal_links"></span>

</p>

<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Internal_links">[...]</h2>

The fact that there are two different "span" elements having the same "id" attribute value "Internal_links" makes the HTML invalid. If this kind of thing can be avoided (and it sounds like it can be, based on what others are saying here), that would be preferable. dcljr (talk) 01:44, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi I'm back. I just reread your text and I effectively from W3C it is considered as an error => https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediawiki.org%2Fwiki%2FHelp%3ALinks

On the translated pages the problem disappears and it is why the 'anchor' forced declaration has been used reestablishing the funtionality; here example in FR page:

<p><span id="Internal"></span><span id="Internal_links"></span>
</p>
<h2><span class="mw-headline" id="Liens_internes">

So apart source is not W3C compliant, can you explain which problem this brings to you ? Then we can bring a solution but at lowest costs, that means updating the pages calling this anchor and knowing its is always delicate to start by modifying the templates. On the other side, if it was only a remark, just ignored as proposed by Shirayuki.

Christian FR (talk) 14:54, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I have no further explanation to give. The invalid HTML is the problem. (Along with the suboptimal situation of "having a template call at the end of one section that actually refers to the next section".) dcljr (talk) 18:40, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

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Extension:AbuseFilter/Rules_format 6 unrecognized items abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-XXXX

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Hi all, on page Extension:AbuseFilter/Rules_format , at the end of section 8.2 "Variables from other extensions", 6 items cannot be translated via ⧼...⧽. Can somebody adapt with correct strings or remove them if no more used ? Thanks.

 
abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-page-views
abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-page-views

abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-movedfrom-views
abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-movedto-views

abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-is-proxy
abusefilter-edit-builder-vars-sfs-blocked

Christian FR (talk) 12:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Messages are defined in extensions HitCounters, AutoProxyBlock and StopForumSpam. But those extensions are unused on MediaWiki.org. Shirayuki (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the updates and the informations. Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 08:33, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

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Template:Guide does not work on translated pages

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Hi all. On page for example Manual:Short_URL/fr, at section 3.1.1 Root access, Template:Guide transforms :

wiki/Page title -- Lighttpd rewrite--root access Face-smile.svgx3

into

Manual:Short_URL/fr/wiki/Page_title_--_Lighttpd_rewrite--root_access

which is not defined and we want :

Manual:Short_URL/wiki/Page_title_--_Lighttpd_rewrite--root_access

or at best:

Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Short_URL/wiki/Page_title_--_Lighttpd_rewrite--root_access

I tried using BASEPAGENAME instead of PAGENAME but without success. Can somebody help me ? Thanks.

Christian FR (talk) 11:44, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Done Shirayuki (talk) 11:55, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks - see https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Guide&diff=3684688&oldid=3684682 Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 12:09, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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What about page Manual:MimeMagic.php ?

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Hi all. When I open => Manual:MimeMagic.php and i click on 'classes' I get => https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/classMimeMagic.html which does not exist. If I click on source paths => source code: master • 1.34.0 • 1.33.2 • 1.31.6 only 1.31.6 is defined.
On the otherside, on => https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/rMW0041b43966d3a027495b028c26cbe861dabe60f5 I see comment

The MimeMagic class, deprecated since 1.28 has been removed. Get a  MimeAnalyzer instance from MediaWikiServices instead.

I notice also in => https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/rMW0041b43966d3a027495b028c26cbe861dabe60f5#change-WwtX27eUR0gG that 'return new MimeMagic( $params );' becomes 'return new MimeAnalyzer( $params );'

So what is the current content of page Manual:MimeMagic.php ? Thanks.

Christian FR (talk) 22:25, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

The page is being retained for archival purposes. Shirayuki (talk) 07:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Ok for the removal but it is said "removed completely in version 1.32 (after being deprecated in 1.28)." So why links to source code: master • 1.34.0 • 1.33.2 are still proposed since they are no longer defined ?

Rather should be displayed : "source code: 1.31.6" or someting like "source code: - • - • - • 1.31.6" for missing versions.

Christian FR (talk) 13:58, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

I guess we cannot get better ; see remarks on Template_talk:MW_file#Links_to_non-existent_code_in_older/newer_releases. Christian 🇫🇷 FR 🚨 (talk) 14:51, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

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