Extension talk:Babel

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Parameters for system messages

3
Summary by Epok
Epok (talkcontribs)

Hello,

I would like to adapt the system messages MediaWiki:babel-autocreate-text-levels and MediaWiki:babel-autocreate-text-main on fr wiki to use as a default the standard models we use for language categories.

However, these models take as an input the language code, where the parameters (respectively $2 and $1) provide the language name. Are there other parameters provided for the text creation, which would provide the language code? If not, I think this would be a great idea to provide them.

Thanks.

Shirayuki (talkcontribs)
Epok (talkcontribs)

Yes, thank you, that was the info I was searching!

Have a nice day.

Saippuakauppias (talkcontribs)

Hi people. I am the de:User:Saippuakauppias and, as you can see on my user page in the German Wikipedia, when using " tg-2 " it does not understand it. Could you please solve this? Thank you so much. Regards, @Saippuakauppias (talk) 21:29, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

197.235.152.78 (talkcontribs)

That page is using a babel template, not a babel extension, template vs parserfunction. There's nothing to solve. Look closely at the page...

Reply to "Tajiki in German wikipedia"
Mik (talkcontribs)

There is an inconsistency in different category links. English language points always to meta and other point to local wiki, e.g.:

  • [[m:Category:User en|English]]
  • [[Category:User fr|français]]
  • [[Category:User sp|español]]

I think it will be better that all links point to local wiki.

Reply to "'Category:User xx' links"

Don't use fallback if template exists

1
173.95.184.204 (talkcontribs)

This shouldn't use the fallback language if the template exists. It should first use built in translations, then look for a template, then use the fallback. This would make it simpler to ensure it's in the correct language if you add it.

Reply to "Don't use fallback if template exists"

Problem with text given out by the extension.

4
C933103 (talkcontribs)

See my user page, there are tons of languages being marked as English. Can that be pulled from wikidata or other database instead? Even pih does not have a working label, pih is a language that a wikipeia have already been created for it.

Also, the text in ii userbox is not ii, where can that be edited?

Additionally, after applying it to wikidata, only zh-HK is retained, and zh/zh-Hant/zh-TW/zh-Hans/zh-CN disappeared from the list. How to fix that?

Iniquity (talkcontribs)
Iniquity (talkcontribs)
C933103 (talkcontribs)

1. For ii, if all things in babel are not translated then why is it displaying simplified chinese? Is there some sort of fallback mechanism?

2. For other languages, from what I see on translatewiki, it seems like the message is written s like [[$2|English]]. Then no wonder they would be displayed as English without translation?

Reply to "Problem with text given out by the extension."
Walter Klosse (talkcontribs)

Can we add languages that have no ISO-363 code, like toki-pona?

Base (talkcontribs)
Nikerabbit (talkcontribs)

You can, if you create such templates yourself, like Base explains above. Without a ISO code it won't be added to the Babel extension.

Reply to "Languages with no ISO code"

Manipulating the standard babel box

3
Kghbln (talkcontribs)

Is there a way to manipulate the standard babel box used for the languages, i.e. add additional wikitext markup to it? I would like, e.g. to add an annotation like {{#set: Language spoken=de |Language spoken level=N }} in case {{#babel:de-N}} is added to the user page.

Nikerabbit (talkcontribs)

You could use the categories as alternative way to get this information. Babel extension does not provide any hooks at the moment.

Kghbln (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the information. I will try to figure something out using the categories. Should not be too hard.

Reply to "Manipulating the standard babel box"
Infovarius (talkcontribs)

Where can I translate some new language names (labels) into Russian?

Stephen G. Brown (talkcontribs)

What are the names? Maybe we can translate them if we know them.

Infovarius (talkcontribs)
Infovarius (talkcontribs)

For example in d:Q2 I see for labels: "Belarusian (Taraškievica orthography)", "Algerian Arabic", "Bavarian", "Banjar", "Russia Buriat" and many more. Some of them I would translate myself if I know where.

Stephen G. Brown (talkcontribs)

I guess this would be the place. There is no particular place to translate them, someone just does it. I have made a complete list of the languages you need at User talk:Stephen G. Brown#Language list. Please check the list (265 languages) to see if I have any that should not be included, or if I have missed any.

Also, what about the sort order? Do you want to keep the same order, or what? I noticed that the list is in alphabetical order to some degree, but not completely. Russian has a different alphabetical order. Stephen G. Brown (talk) 23:59, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Reply to "Language names"

Some remarks and proposals on Babel extension.

3
Epok (talkcontribs)

Hi all,

I'm new to Babel extension use, as I used the old template-based languages boxes, and am just becoming familiar with this extension.

I have two remarks on the extension. Perhaps it's already been discussed, but I didn't find any conversation about these. I may also miss a point as I'm new to this extension use.

My first remark is about page categorization. On WP:FR babel templates, there is a filter aiming at categorizing only user pages using the templates, not pages from other namespaces; the following filter is used on the template: {{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Utilisateur|[[Catégorie:Utilisateur {{{letter code}}}-5]]}}.

This avoids categorizing pages where we talk about the templates into the user categories, such as Talk: or Wikipedia: pages. This seems not to be present on the boxes generated using the babel extension, resulting in pages being included in user categories while not belonging into (see fr:Catégorie:Utilisateur arc containing project talk page). I think this filter is very relevant and should be used by the extension.

A second remark is about the text displayed on the boxes. This text is only displayed in the target language, or sometimes only in english. I think it would be very much useful if the sentences were written using two languages: the target language, and the local wiki language. Of course, this would require a very large translation work, translating each sentence in all of the languages. But I think this would add much more accessibility to user browsing other users pages while not speaking the target language. As an example, even if this template is not part of the extension, see this "*" box: fr:Modèle:Utilisateur en-*.

Any remark on these points?

Nikerabbit (talkcontribs)

Those translations already exists, so they could be used. But what would be the additional value for someone not knowing those languages enough to understand the descriptions? There is the language code too, that can be used to clearly identify the language.

Epok (talkcontribs)

I agree this would not be an "additional value", but we could say the same about the text written in a language that is different from the wiki language... I think this is important that on a specific language wiki, all text is translated to the local language so that it is accessible to everyone. Showing both languages would be, I think, an acceptable tradeoff, especially for not well-known languages, or language codes which are difficult to recognize.

Reply to "Some remarks and proposals on Babel extension."

slight error in French user level 0

13
Eric (talkcontribs)

Hello all- Newbie here, not sure if I'm in the right place to post this. On Wikidata, the wording in the Babel box for French level 0 (fr-0) has a slight error--a kind of slang, conversational departure from grammar rules. It currently reads "Cet utilisateur a aucune connaissance..." See here. In correct French, it should read "...n'a aucune..." I have looked all over and cannot find where to edit this. Another user suggested I might look here. Thanks in advance for any help.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

"n'a aucune" is good.

More of that, in the discussion page of  here. I have signalled that the textual graduation 1 2 3 .. in the french text of window Category:User fr should be reversed. Nobody replies. (...)

UV (talkcontribs)
Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Hi all

This is a question of practice and you must process using similar cases to understand the difference. I say "J'ai besoin de cette traduction" because it has a sens positive (I need this translation). At contrario, I will say "Je n'ai aucune remarque à faire" or "Je n'ai rien à dire" or "Je n'ai pas à dire merci".

"J'ai aucune connaissance en anglais" shows a contradiction: you introduce a positive action (I have) but you cannot propose something.

"rien" is similiar to "pas" and you always use "ne" with "pas".

More of that "Ne rien" reinforces the negative affirmation.

Hope it helps.

Christian W.

Eric (talkcontribs)

Hi Christian-

Thanks for your input. I still see the usage without "ne" as slang or conversational, and technically incorrect. I haven't found a source that states this definitively, but here are a few sources that do not indicate the omission of "ne" in the usage we are discussing:

LaRousse difficultés, Dictionnaire Cordial, aidenet, Logilangue

You're a native speaker, I'm not. I think you may simply have become accustomed to conversational usage that omits the "ne". But I suspect your teachers would not call this usage correct.

We could use the wording that Commons employs, or we might take the ultimately more logical approach that en wiki does, which is to eliminate the 0 level altogether: See here, the first paragraph after the list.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

With "Cet utilisateur ne comprend pas le français (ou le comprend avec très grande difficulté)" and "These users do not speak French", we are speaking of 3 different situations :

- 1. this user does not understand french: it is clear he has no knowledge and cannot speak

- 2. this user does not speak french: but he may have some knowledge and he may understand

- 3. this user has no knowledge: obviously he cannot speak and understand

Case3 is our conflictual.

Case 2 is not enough selective

Case 1 (from Commons) for which i am favorable is is direct and everyone understands.

This post was hidden by Wladek92 (history)
Eric (talkcontribs)

Bonjour Christian-

Thanks for your edit and your input. I was away from the computer for a few days.

Given the existence of the xx-0 level, users who employ the Babel box might logically feel compelled to announce themselves as level zero in every language that they don't speak, which would produce quite a cumbersome tower of Babel-box...poor, I know, but I couldn't resist... ;)

So I would suggest we eliminate it if it ever came to a vote.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Ok keep the graduation and remove entry 0 ( nobody should use it) which is coherent with what you say.

Nikerabbit (talkcontribs)

Level 0 is not going to be removed. People use it for example to indicate they don't speak the main language of the wiki, or in Wikidata to have the language appear in item pages even though they do not speak it.

Wladek92 (talkcontribs)

Ok I guess it can be used as an internal/default value but is there a way to have it NOT displayed in GUI as a value users could see explicitely ?

Nikerabbit (talkcontribs)

As my personal opinion, I find it unlikely that such a change would be implemented.

Reply to "slight error in French user level 0"