Architecture meetings/RFC review 2014-02-14

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13:00 UTC, February 14, at #wikimedia-office connect.

Requests for Comment to review[edit]

Three at most, so we can go in depth.

  1. TitleValue
  2. Deprecating inline styles (quick checkin)
  3. your RFC here


Summary and logs[edit]

Meeting summary[edit]

  • manybubbles is "much happier" with latest patch for TitleValue
  • daniel will send email to solicit more reviews
  • manybubbles will comment on gerrit
  • daniel will work more on TitleValue in march
  • shall be a follow-up meeting (in march?) with Tim, Brion, etc. present, even if it's late evening Berlin time

Full log[edit]

Meeting logs
13:06 < manybubbles> I'm here too!                                                                  
13:07 < manybubbles> I though there was a bot that would help record                                
13:07 < DanielK_WMDE> there used to be...                                                           
13:07 < aude2> We might use wikimedia-meetbot channel                                               
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> i don't see the bot there either                                              
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> let's just stay here                                                          
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> so.                                                                           
13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: have you seen the version I pushed to gerrit yesterday?          
13:09 < manybubbles> yeah!  I saw it.  I'm much happier                                             
13:10 -!- hashar [~sempitern@mediawiki/hashar] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                            
13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> I'm not totally convinced that it's really the better design, but it's simpler for now, and can be refactored later
13:10 < aude2> Anyway                                                                               
13:10 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: that is the spirit                                               
13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> next steps for me would be: get it to pass all tests, and get it merged. but for getting it merged, i'll need more feedback from more people, i think...
13:11 < manybubbles> yeah.                                                                          
13:11 < manybubbles> I wanted anomie to give feedback because he was one of the grumblers           
13:11 < DanielK_WMDE> also, i'll need to rebase the SpecialCategories refactor. Will try to get that and the fixes done today
13:11 < manybubbles> thanks!  aren't you traveling today?                                           
13:12 < manybubbles> I'll post some comments on gerrit as well.                                     
13:12 < manybubbles> I don't have a big list.                                                       
13:12 < DanielK_WMDE> yes. anomie, tim, brion, chad, roan, perhaps aaron...                         
13:12 < manybubbles> but was reviewing on mobile and didn't want to log in,etc                      
13:12 -!- YuviPanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/yuvipanda] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                      
13:13 < YuviPanda> 18 December? feels a bit dated                                                   
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> would be great if you could do this in the next hours, so i can reply. i want to get as much of this done today as possible
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: hm?                                                                
13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> hey yuvi ;)                                                                   
13:13 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: /topic                                                             
13:13 < YuviPanda> hi DanielK_WMDE :)                                                               
13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RDF review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review
13:14 < aude2> Rdf?                                                                                 
13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: want to add your 2¢ to the TitleValue stuff?                       
13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RFC review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review
13:14 < aude2> :)                                                                                   
13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: oh ffs ;)                                                              
13:15 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: nah, I'm just here to watch :) I haven't been writing any PHP for a long while now
13:15 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: probably not much to watch, manybubbles and aude seem happy, the grumblers arn't here :P
13:15 < YuviPanda> heh                                                                              
13:15 < YuviPanda> wait is it now? thought it was later                                             
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> no, now.                                                                      
13:16 < aude2> Not sure about calling the one class "codec"                                         
13:16 < aude2> But I'm never good with picking names                                                
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: well, it formats/serializes and parses. what would you call it? A Parmatter?
13:16 < aude2> Not sure                 
13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> could also split the implementation again.                                    
13:17 < manybubbles> I'll go forth and comment on the patch                                         
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> implementing parsing and formatting in the same class is convenient for consistency and because both task require the same knowledge
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators.                            
13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem.     
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators.                            
13:17 < manybubbles> to me the codec name isn't a problem.                                          
13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: yay :)                                                           
13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> fyi, after today, i'll probably not work on TitleValue for 10 days (short vacation). Will pick up again after that.
13:18 < aude2> It just sets precedence                                                              
13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: what does? combining the implementations?                              
13:18 < aude2> Would prefer things split more but recognize the concerns                            
13:18 < aude2> Yes                                                                                  
13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> well, it was split more, i just backtracked a bit on that :)                  
13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> (look at the earlier patch sets)                                              
13:19 < aude2> Ok as first step though if we do second step                                         
13:19 < aude2> Then we are left with more legacy code to maintain for a while                       
13:20 < aude2> Still might be ok if it makes folks happier                                          
13:21 < DanielK_WMDE> I think having the implementations centralized will help with acceptance. If it becomes a problem, we can split it up easily
13:21  * aude2 observes now                                                                         
13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: i'll send an email later, inviting more folks to review. I'll pick up work on this in march.
13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: is there anything mroe to discuss? Any nitty gritty details or broad sweeping concepts we havn't covered?....
13:23 < manybubbles> aude2: I think you'll get people fighting you more on splitting the codec      
13:23 < aude2> heh                                                                                  
13:24 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: can you think of an alternative to the term "codec"?             
13:24 < manybubbles> DanielK_WMDE: meh                                                              
13:24 < manybubbles> Editor is standard in Java but it is a stupid standard                         
13:25 < manybubbles> that is something worth bikeshedding in gerrit, I think                        
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess.                                                                      
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> "editor" is utterly misleading.                                               
13:25 < manybubbles> yeah                                                                           
13:25 < manybubbles> it has history                                                                 
13:25 < manybubbles> like how "tar" has history                                                     
13:25 < manybubbles> but that doesn't make it good at all                                           
13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> hehe                                                                          
13:26 -!- sumanah [~sumanah@mediawiki/sumanah] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                            
13:26 < manybubbles> there we go                                                                    
13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> hey sumanah!                                                                  
13:26 < sumanah> Hi!                                                                                
13:26 < manybubbles> so we've talked for a half an hour and I'm happy with it                       
13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> cool!                                                                         
13:26 < manybubbles> well, was happy with it when I reviewed it this morning                        
13:26 < aude2> probably makes sense for followup meeting in march                                   
13:27 < aude2> At time that Tim can attend and more sf people                                       
13:27 < manybubbles> I'll see if I can shake anomie to review it                                    
13:27 < aude2> Even if it means 11pm for us                                                         
13:27 < manybubbles> bleh                                                                           
13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: so, aude and manybubbles seem happy anough. there's a short list of people i'd like to have another look. will mail them later today.
13:27 < sumanah> hi there, quick question, can anyone email me the IRC log of today's meeting?      
13:27 < aude2> Sure I can post log                                                                  
13:27 < manybubbles> perfect                                                                        
13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sure. we couldn't figure out how to get meetbot in here.             
13:28 < sumanah> brion was meant to attend today, I'm regretting he's not here                      
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> oh, is the date for the follow-up already set? I guess I  missed that...      
13:28 < sumanah> sounds like you got some progress made though?                                     
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: when is it?                                                            
13:28 < aude2> Not set                                                                              
13:28 < aude2> Just suggesting   
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: a bit, there wasn't too much to discuss. no critics here :)          
13:28 < sumanah> we're gonna have these RFC checkins/discussions to move RFCs along each week - we could set the first week of March?
13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: ah, ok                                                                 
13:28 < sumanah> (the architects would be there, could potentially approve, veto, or ask for revise-and-resubmit)
13:29 < aude2> Whatever works for Daniel Tim and brion                                              
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sounds good, but is it ok to talk about TitleValue at that time again?
13:29 < aude2> And nik                                                                              
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> actually - i think it makes sense to keep talking about an $RFC until it's done.
13:29 -!- helderwiki [~Helder@wikibooks/Helder-wiki] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                      
13:29 < aude2> None of us here are in position to approve                                           
13:29 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if none of the architects are in this meeting here right now, then this is just y'all working on the RFC, not one of the weekly RFC Review meetings
13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> 11pm is fine for me, depending on the day                                     
13:29 < aude2> Me too                                                                               
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: well, technically, mark is in the channel :P                         
13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: did he talk?                                                         
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> nope                                                                          
13:30  * sumanah waits for aude's aude2's log                                                       
13:30 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: there you go                                                         
13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess he isn't too interested in TitleValue stuff                           
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: yea, "technically".                                                  
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway, i don't care as long as we make progress.                             
13:31 < aude2> Shall post log when I come back to office                                            
13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> but.. getting Tim *and* Brion in here at a time hwne I'm awake might be tricky...
13:31 < sumanah> I declare that this was an rfc work meeting, not an RFC review meeting of the type that has architects in it. anyway. DanielK_WMDE would you be ok actually talking with brion later today?
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> though 11pm here might work                                                   
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> sure, would be happy to!                                                      
13:32 < sumanah> ok, DanielK_WMDE, I will try to put you, manybubbles and brion in the same room at the same time
13:32 < sumanah> preferably #wikimedia-office which is where meetbot does work :)                   
13:32 < manybubbles> sumanah: thanks                                                                
13:32 < manybubbles> ah                                                                             
13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> i'm here until at least 8pm my time. may not be reactive on irc, though. if all else fails, text my phone.
13:32 < manybubbles> I wasn't sure where to go                                                      
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: as opposed to #wikimedia-meetbot?... this is confusing :P            
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        
13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> thanks, sumanah!                                                              
13:34 < sumanah> it was in the wikitech-l email to go to #wikimedia-office but next time I will send a GCal invite
13:34 < sumanah> to the people I suspect will be most interested                                    
13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> so, maybe this channel should be closed or redirected?                        
13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> or #wikimedia-office should at least be in the topic?                         
13:36 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: if you know how to close and redirect an IRC channel please be my guest
13:36 < sumanah> I had to search around to find you folks :p                                        
13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> closing is easy: make everybody leave :)                                      
13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> there's no ChanServ in here, so it's not kept alive                           
13:37 < sumanah> DanielK_WMDE: you actually serious?                                                
13:37 < sumanah> they'll just come back                                                             
13:38 < sumanah> because evidently in the autumn this is where you all got used to having your meetings
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> well yea. redirecting would be the only way, i'd ask in #freenode about that. 
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> clsoign is easy, but anyone joining a channel will just re-create it. there's no such thing as a closed channel.
13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        
13:39 < DanielK_WMDE> or we could just actually have rfc meetings here. i don't really care, it should just be documented and consistent :)