2017 wikitext editor/Feedback/2017/04

Post your feedback about using the first iteration of the 2017 wikitext editor as a Beta Feature.

If you are reporting a problem directly on this page, please include your web browser, computer operating system, and wiki skin (usually Vector, sometimes Monobook). Also, while editing to reproduce a problem, please try to append &safemode=1 at the end of the URL; if the problem disappears, you are using a gadget or script that interferes with the editor.

The Editing team welcomes your feedback and ideas, especially on user interface decisions and the priorities for adding new features. All comments are read, in any language, but personal replies are not guaranteed.

We are trying to keep the page tidy by providing links to relevant tasks while closing threads. You can help by adding {{tracked|T######}}. By all means, feel free to re-open a thread if you need to!

See also:

View open developer tasks – Complete workboard – Report a new bug in Phabricator – Join the IRC channel

Old version when editing

I opened the discussion (in Wikipedia namespace) in two tabs in the browser. In the first, I added my own comment to one topic and saved and closed this tab. A little later I wanted to supplement my comment. In the second tab (there is still an old version without my comment), I clicked to edit the topic, but the old version (without my comment) was appeared in the editor. Why did the editor download the old version, not the latest version? This can cause editing conflicts. Sunpriat 09:38, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

This editor does not show the editing conflict at all !!

While I was typing a comment someone made a comment https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B&diff=prev&oldid=84636973

But the editor saved as usual and overwrote that comment https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8B&diff=next&oldid=84636973

And there was no warning about the conflict! Sunpriat 18:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

This has happened occasionally for as long as I can remember. I doubt therefore that it has anything to do with the editing tools that you're using. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 06:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Citation templates

I switched the beast on- i tried to make a quick edit to add a citation- and I have disabled it again. If it comes on the subhead instead of VE, I can continue to test it- but if it replaces edit source it has to go.

Where are the citation templates? Unusable with out them. It may be an improvement on ve but I need the real editor there at all times as fall back. The citation issue is important- for grown up articles one cites with templates then later goes back and converts them manually to sfn and efn.

The templates are not perfect- we lack one for cite sign (useful in a museum) and cite in compliation- where the paper is contained in a volume published under another authors name,and again the facility to set up sfn/efn automatically would be useful.

When training academics to use WP one needs one simple foolproof method that is close to what they have used in academic papers- often for example they will have chosen a BLP that they want to add and will be clutching a pile of tomes from a specialist library which will support notablity and the mental outline for the task. The best approach I have seen is where the trainer says: there are two editor, VE is good but until you have learnt to edit it is too complicated- so today we are going to stick to Wikitext and you can experiment later.

Icons are impossible in a training situation- we need to be able to say- ǵo to the button labelled "Cite", or "Advanced" rather than describe squiggles, and use words in out training booklets (until we ave a special font including them all) Enough. I have switched it off. ClemRutter (talk) 10:42, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

To answer your question, that depends on the wiki. On en.wp, they're in the "manual" tab of the Cite tool, if I understand your question correctly (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/Citations-Full#Manual).

Other templates can be added via Insert --> Template.

(If you want Cite Sign and Cite Compilation templates to show up in the menu for everyone permanently, you need community consensus, then there are instructions at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Citation_tool#Citation_tool_definition .)

Thanks for your feedback. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:26, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I hope that the preview can provide a sidebar to show the effect of the mobile view.

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T162074

我希望预览可以提供一个侧栏来显示手机版视图的效果。 脂肪酸钠 (talk) 12:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Title and this sentence comes from Google's translation, if there is something wrong, very sorry. 脂肪酸钠 (talk) 12:49, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Experiences/feedback

I worked a while now with the new editor. It's basically easy, helpful, thus great.

To still speed up editing work a bit more I am missing particularly:

• redlinks in previews
• Preview button next to Save changes button for immediate and interim preview
• combined view for preview&editor to compare edits&results easily

What is completely irritating when jumping around between buttons & views is the doubled Save changes button. It often takes a second look to eliminate irritations - added up I already missed a few minutes of my life time because of this second look... Labelling it different would be cool, either:

• Save changes and Publish changes

or

• Save changes and Save and publish

I would prefer the first suggestion because human brain would decode the difference between both options starting with the first letters "S" & "P". On the second suggestion the decoding would start not before the sixth letter on "Save c" & "Save a". And in many other languages the terms for "Save" and "Publish" start with distinguishable letters, too (FR: "Enregistrer/Publier", DE: "Sichern/Veröffentlichen", RU: "сохранять/опубликова́ть", ES: "Guardar/Publicar", IT: "Salva/Pubblicare" etc. pp.)

Misc.:

•  I am not 100% fine with the behaviour of the "link editor" but I still did not figure out what I would suggest to improve it (improve it from my POV). I don't.
• It takes long until the editor opens in Firefox. In Chromium it's good.

Keep on keeping on the good work! with best wishes from VINCENZO1492 13:29, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments; I really appreciate it. Here are some quick comments:

1. Redlinks in previews: This is phab:T153535. A solution is (hopefully) on the way in the next week or two.
2. Changes to the Save button: A split button is being discussed ('click here to start the save process, but you can choose preview from a dropdown'; see phab:T153306 and related tasks), and a change will probably happen soon.
3. Combined view: Do you mean that you want a side-by-side dynamic display (edit this side, change shows immediately in the other side), or merely that you want to be able to see the preview and the wikitext code at the same time (which is phab:T155732)?
4. Save/Publish: You might be interested in a recent discussion at Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier .
5. Link editor: It's better than it used to be, but IMO it still needs work. Feel free to start a new thread if you have any ideas.
6. Performance: At the moment, I think that the speed is worst in Firefox. Performance is not the devs' main focus this quarter, but they are aware of the problems. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:47, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

> Redlinks in previews: This is phab:T153535. A solution is (hopefully) on the way in the next week or two.

According to the phabricator task, this will probably be available today in mediawiki.org, and this week everywhere else, unless something unexpected happens .... 197.218.80.231 (talk) 19:37, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Oops, mediawiki.org tomorrow... 197.218.80.231 (talk) 19:40, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Redlinks now fixed. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:16, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I am sorry to be a downer but I much prefer the old source editor for a number of reasons:

• This one takes a long time to load with my connection
• It's a pain to preview the page and confusing since you have to "save changes" first. Previously it was one click.

I could live with the rest of the changes (which aren't particularly helpful for me personally) but these are real deal breakers for me so I would much appreciate having the option to use the old source editor. Thanks. ~ Buidhe (talk) 13:32, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your views.

The team has no plans to remove the 2010 WikiEditor. (There are lots of editing tools that could be called "the old editor".) You can keep using it if you like it better.

Performance is a problem for a number of editors, especially on larger pages. They're planning to try something different for the Preview issue – a button that lets you "Save changes", but has an option to skip straight to "Preview" first. Also, the same keyboard shortcuts work in the most popular old editors as well as this one. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:44, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies. I meant with "Combined view" to see the preview and the wikitext code at the same time - which is phab:T155732 as you mentioned. with best wishes from VINCENZO1492 22:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

(Using WikiVoyage) I don't like it. Slow to load, seems "clunky" visually (less text on more screen) and the Insert Listings is missing (very useful and important) - to the point I've given-up trying it ~ PsamatheM (talk) 15:58, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T96710

I don't know when that request will be fulfilled, but I do think that it will happen some day. In the meantime, you can Insert > Template to add the listings templates (or click "Add listing" to use the listing editor). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Automatic Redirects

When I tried to do behind the scenes updates to the 2017-18 NFL Playoffs, the wikitext editor redirects me to the 2017 NFL season. What can you do to prevent this? Piranha249 (talk) 14:46, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I can edit the redreict page fine in both VE and the new wikitext mode. ESanders (WMF) (talk) 12:57, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

How? I've been trying, but it forced me to turn off the new wikitext mode (for now). What can be done to prevent the redirects. Piranha249 (talk) 19:40, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Cursor keeps jumping!

Hello everyone,

I have been using this new feature on Wikipedia's VE using the latest Google Chrome browser, but the cursor keeps jumping to the beginning of the paragraph when I try to type in the middle of it. This alone is already very irritating, and I don't want to look to see if anyone already brought this up. Is someone looking into this?

Cheers,

SGG Some Gadget Geek (talk) 19:57, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi there, I don't think I've seen this reported yet - can you share an example of page where this happens for you? Does it happen anywhere in the page? Does it happen from another browser or while you're logged out (maybe try incognito mode)? Thanks! Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:28, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Well apparently this does not happen on Internet Explorer. But what happens on Chrome is, when I click in the middle of a paragraph (after a word) to insert text, and begin typing, the text appears at the beginning of the paragraph. It is most apparent when I edit large bodies of text.

Example:

This is the original text:

"This is a sentence. This is another sentence."

This is what I want to change it to:

"This is a sentence. This is yet another sentence."

All I need to do is add the word "yet" after "is", but after placing the cursor after "is", "yet" appears at the beginning instead as follows:

"yet This is a sentence. This is another sentence."

Hope you get what I mean.

Regards, SGG Some Gadget Geek (talk) 18:30, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

It's about a 100th time I wish Chrome should be removed from Wiki support at all. IKhitron (talk) 21:34, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

We had a problem with a cursor jumping around when the shift key was pressed. It's described at phab:T156228. Do you think that might be what's happening to you? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:45, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Nay, it happens regardless of whether I press shift or not. Some Gadget Geek (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Nothing happened when I tested with the current version of Chrome (on Mac). My questions above still apply. Also, while VEditing to test, you could append &safemode=1 at the end of the URL - if cursor doesn't jump anymore, then it's a gadget or script you have that's interfering. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I added &safemode=1 to the URL and the problem was fixed. Now, where and how do I find out what gadget is interfering? Some Gadget Geek (talk) 22:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Someday, Elitre should remind me to write up a standard help page on how to do this.

Here's the general system:

• You have some user scripts enabled at some wikis.
• You probably have some gadgets enabled in Special:Preferences at some wikis.

Gadgets are just user scripts that are easy to enable. But, as a rule of thumb, gadgets tend to be better written and better maintained than user scripts (also, there are wikis that don't offer any gadgets), so we begin with the assumption that the problem is in your user scripts. I'm also assuming that you've not changed any of your scripts recently, as you probably wouldn't be asking if it worked fine, you made a change, and it broke immediately afterwards.  ;-)

So step #1 is "Find your user scripts". Here are your options, assuming that you're experiencing this problem at the English Wikipedia.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/vector.js
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/common.js
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/monobook.js (you don't have this page)
• https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/global.js

(There are also matching CSS files, if you have weird display issues, but that doesn't seem very relevant in this instance.)

Step #2 is to figure out which script(s) is the likely cause. Assuming that only one script is broken (usually true), then the fastest system is to blank each .js page in turn, and see whether that fixed the problem. So blank vector.js, reload, and see if the cursor still jumps. If it does, then revert your blanking, go to the next page in the list, and repeat.

When you discover which page seems to contain the problem, then we reach Step #3: Restore half the contents of the broken page, and re-test. Continue restoring (or removing) half of the scripts until you've restore all but one script.

The point behind doing this by halves is that if you have a lot of scripts, then it takes too long to restore each individually. A binary search tree is more efficient. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 04:11, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

I am actually using simplewiki. The only script page I have running there is

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Some_Gadget_Geek/huggle3.css. I have blanked that page, but the problems persist using VisualEditor. Some Gadget Geek (talk) 19:10, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Do you have this problem at any other wiki?

If not, then we're going to have to look at the gadgets in Special:Preferences at simple.wiki. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, enabled it on en-wiki and the same problem. I'm disabling on all wikis for now. It probably has to do with my browser. Some Gadget Geek (talk) 22:30, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Missing tools

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T157625

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T164954

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T164956

Hi!

Currently with the new wikitext editor I cannot use the tools and gadgets. As you can see, there are some differences between the new and the old editor. The biggest problem is that the edit-tools (which usually are on the top and the bottom of the page) are missing. Is there any way to use them in the new editor? Best regards! Bencemac (talk) 18:14, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Are you missing the MediaWiki:Edittools (a sort of special-character inserter)? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:35, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Not exactly, but this is a missing too. I posted this topic about the editing gadgets which are missing if I use the new wikitext editor. On huWiki there are a lot of useful gadgets which don't have English pairs therefore I cannot link them. But RefToolbar and WikEd has. I think the RefToolbar's "advanced" and "help" tab is very useful for new and experienced editors. Could you add these tabs?

Bencemac (talk) 17:39, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Gadgets have to be converted; VisualEditor/Gadgets and subpages have information about that process.

I think that everything in the "Advanced" tab except nowiki tags (about which, see phab:T157625) and perhaps redirects is available already in the existing toolbar. Which things are you having trouble finding? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:04, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

From the "advanced" tab only these two functions are missing. I will be honest: mostly I'm missing the "help" tab. It has a "references" minor-tab, which is a huge help. If I don't know the exact end of a reference (and I use the old editor) I just click on it and I copy the sample. In summary: could you add the nowiki tag and redirect functions (which would be useful for everybody) and think a little bit about the help tab? Bencemac (talk) 18:56, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

I think that I need a screenshot for the help content. The English version doesn't contain anything about references. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 03:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Here is one-one picture. It has only four different sections with examples (as you can see on the pictures). Bencemac (talk) 16:32, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I found it! I didn't scroll down far enough the first time. Thanks.

Have you tried using the "Cite" button in the 2017 wikitext editor? It should be adding all the ref tags for you. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:10, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I have. The biggest problem is that the "re-use" button doesn't work in wikitext editor yet, only in the Visual Editor. Could you fix it? And in summary of the topic, I'm missing the following options from the "insert" tab:

*<nowiki> tag

*redirect mode

*<br /> tag Bencemac (talk) 14:41, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't know whether they can make the re-use button work, but I've asked: phab:T164954. It will probably only be able to re-use citations that are already named. (As a short-tem workaround, in article/content spaces, you can switch to the visual mode to insert the citation, and then switch back. That won't help you on a talk page, though.)

• The nowiki tag is phab:T157625.
• I know that the redirect option is on the list (I've heard the team talk about it), but I can't find a Phab task for it right now.
• I've filed the <br /> tag at phab:T164956.

Is that the whole list? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:34, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, thanks your help! Meanwhile I've noticed that I can log in there with my MediaWiki account and write comment. :) Bencemac (talk) 06:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

And one more thing. If I click on the “page option” -> “options”, I see five sections. Categories, page settings, advanced settings and languages are grey and I cannot click on them. They are grey in page options too. Are they new functions and they are under developing currently? Bencemac (talk) 17:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

These work in VisualEditor's visual mode, but they're still working on them for the wikitext mode. I think it'll be a while yet. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:04, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

You are right. After I posted this message I've noticed. Bencemac (talk) 18:41, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): I checked the tasks today but there aren't any changes since a month. What do you think will there be any changes in the close future? Bencemac (talk) 18:07, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know. The normal deployment train has broken three weeks in a row. Therefore, almost nothing new has reached the Wikipedias for three weeks. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Still hoping for the tasks to be worked on. Honor to those who take the initiative. X black X (talk) 11:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Which function are you missing? Bencemac (talk) 15:07, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

The ones proposed in phab:T157625, phab:T164956 (and the ones proposed in the topic Edittools (HTML entities, tags, matching character combinations)). X black X (talk) 16:13, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I see. To be honest, we should use Hlist template instead of HTML-breaks. However, it is too complicated for a standard user (or sometimes for me, of course). Bencemac (talk) 18:24, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

What to use depends on the project and it's language version. de-wikipedia has no Template:Hlist, but gives detailed descriptions where <br /> can be used (see here) and specific cases of use (e. g here). X black X (talk) 23:44, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Error in Section header

Hey, found this additional text added to a talk page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Authority_control&diff=775948950&oldid=775948927] I am on a Chromebook in the Vector skin. Sadads (talk) 01:29, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T163370

Just checking: did you manually type all of that in the subject field? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

No, it just showed up upon the save, I typed "Add SNAC ID" into the section header box for creating the section, but I didn't type the rest (which was auto-generated -- I think in part for the edit summary). Cheers. It seems like it has to do with the "create new section" workflow. Sadads (talk) 20:06, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

That's what I assumed, but I wanted to make sure. (I'm sure I'm not the only editor who has hand-typed those edit summaries to make it match the automated version.  :-) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:37, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Was it typed actually or just copyied from elsewhere? Dvorapa (talk) 19:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)