Talk:Winter/Archive 1

Please leave feedback below.

What do you hate?

 * It's very redesigned-gmail-like: clearly delineated buttons (or text links) are for chumps, the font is extra-big so you see less on your screen, and there's whitespace everywhere. Seems like it would be nice for tablets, but I would prefer not to see it on my PC. --Dogcow (talk) 00:08, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The text is too big in my opinion. I have to strain my eyes to read it. I think an option to change the size of the text would be great (and I would also suggest making the default text size smaller). -Newyorkadam (talk) 00:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam


 * TOC uncollapsed, at bottom of long lede. old problem of white space around infobox & TOC Slowking4 (talk) 02:45, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Since the earliest prototype I have been watching the site icon disappearing and appearing depending on your position in the page. I didn't say anything because I thought that maybe I would get used to it. I just want to say that I still hate that, and it's the only thing I hate about this whole experiment. Also, I can't recall any site doing this with its brand. I can't offer a perfect solution, as I see the point of having a 100% wide top bar stuck at the top while the rest scrolls. If you stick the full logo on the left then it is probably awkward to see the rest of the column scrolling. If you disable any scrolling to the column then the behavior reminds a bit to the old "frames" (Is that bad? I'm not sure). On the other hand, how would this work for site logos with a different structure than Wikipedia's (image-only, text on top of image...)--Qgil (talk) 20:14, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

What do you love?
The disappearing line of course, among other areas described below! MGalloway (WMF) (talk)

+1 on the editing/navigation interface that becomes part of a static header. NeilK (talk) 00:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

love the new layout, new menu dropdowns, bigger search box, are we migrating phone aesthetics to laptop? Slowking4 (talk) 02:47, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The whole thing is a lot more modular than current vector and it seems to be a lot more easier to customize via plain MediaWiki:Common.css, allowing sites to get custom look & feel without digging really deep into Vector's rigidness. Big bravo for getting rid of the hardcoded blue lines.--Qgil (talk) 20:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

What would you change?
The line weight to half it's current size or lighter color. Or making the header a light grey without the use of lines to distinguish header from content. There's currently too many lines enough to be distracting. When the controls for the subsections expand, the general site/page buttons should minimize, so many options to choose from otherwise. +100 to the fact that you surfaced only most used page/site actions and kept the rest in the drawer. You should also make use of the header as a progress bar to give readers an idea of their current position in relative to the length of the article. MGalloway (WMF) (talk)

Some comments on first look: NeilK (talk) 00:05, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Toolbar directly underneath the article title is too distracting, IMO. 99.9% of users of this page want to read it.
 * Underlining buttons to show hover is a bit much. The button already has a shape, you can highlight that rather than add a new shape to the page. Actually, any kind of hover action is on its way out, if we consider mobile.
 * I know what you're trying to do now with the floating header, but I expect that most users will be confused if the search box is not on the top right. That said Facebook does it that way, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's me but a search box with an "open" top like that doesn't feel like a search box. Perhaps I could get used to it. "4 million articles", seems a bit too self-promotional for WP.
 * It feels like there's too many icons for user-related stuff, especially once the editing icons join the party. Can there just be an avatar, with a notifications indicator, that reveals the rest?
 * I think you are struggling with making interface elements visible while not impeding reading flow. But I'd prefer interface elements to be light type/thin lines and darker, rather than thick and lighter. Bold and middle-grey text looks kind of fluffy to me.
 * Can the lock icon be merged into the Edit icon(s)? This isn't really a comment on your design, but I've often thought they should be somehow merged.


 * "Toolbar directly underneath the article title is too distracting, IMO. 99.9% of users of this page want to read it."
 * I totally agree; I suggest moving it to where the header is, but farther on the right (like so :) -Newyorkadam (talk) 00:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam
 * I agree as well with the problem, let's not introduce UI elements between the title and the body content. For what is worth the Translate extension already does this with "Translate this page" and it is really obtrusive. I agree that simply moving everything to the right might just work.--Qgil (talk) 21:48, 22 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The name, because it is too similar to Extension:Winter and could cause confusion (or maybe not, just letting you know I confused them at first when I saw this in the RCs). πr2 (t • c) 01:45, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * i would like to see a skin with indents on paragraphs. more book-like, less technical documentation-like. Slowking4 (talk) 02:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

First impressions by TMg
--TMg 00:21, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) The search isn't recognizable as an input field. First, I thought it's because if the icon in front instead of the back. But that's not the problem. The color changes of the icon are very nice. I think this will work. The problem is, it doesn't look like an input field at all. It's the same 2 pixel gray border everywhere. It looks like an additional headline or advertisement. No (inset) shadow, no border above, no additional padding. The hover changes are nice but do not solve the problem if you are looking at the page and not moving the mouse so far up.
 * 2) Some of the icons on the right are a bit non-informative. Here is what I saw when I looked first: something with text (?), a favorites star, something about talk, more about talk, this time with a number of probably unread messages, a square (?), my user name, an arrow for more tools.
 * 3) Especially the square is strange. If I remember right from Flow discussions there will be no avatars.
 * 4) Is the "contents" icon on the top really needed? I found it confusing when I saw it first. I had no idea what it does judging from how it looks and where it is in the interface. The icon doesn't tell a story. It shows three lines of (probably) text. Could be anything. I think I understand why you placed it there (don't get me wrong, please) but I think it does not belong there. All other article tools are moved down to the article area (instead of being a tab). The same time the table of contents is moved to a tab? This feels strange.
 * 5) The hover behavior on the popup menus is a bit strange (and wasting rendering time). Click one of the arrows. The menu opens and stays. Now move the mouse. The button under the menu changes when the mouse leaves and enters the menu. Instead it should stay in the "active" state. This is notable on the edit widgets since they use a blue "active" state.
 * 6) The section edit widgets look a bit broken. This may be my Opera 12. The border is missing and the white background cuts the gray underline from the headline.
 * 7) Performance. Some of the transitions feel slow and clunky. For example the blue hover on the edit widgets is delayed but should be instant. Again, maybe an Opera 12 issue.

Did you find any bugs?
Bugs are listed on the MediaWiki page.