User talk:Catrope/Archive 1

If you have questions, comments, complaints about the API, please don't report that here. Instead, find the associated page in the API documentation and report the problem on its talk page. If you're unsure which page is most appropriate, use Talk:API. Preferably, you should report bugs at Bugzilla. If Bugzilla confuses you, it's OK to report bugs on Talk:API instead.

Thanks
Thanks about help at http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:143.107.230.53&redirect=no --143.107.230.53 21:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of pages about the API
I've restored these pages, because "It hasn't been implemented yet" isn't a really good deletion reason. The pages may be useful in the future. Werdna 10:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you say so. You should probably know that I'm gonna rewrite those pages from scratch once those features have been implemented, and that they're not really useful now as they describe an implementation plan that might not even be used. --Catrope 13:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

API probleem
Geen tijd om zelf te uit te zoeken, moet nu gaan. Bryan 18:05, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Was een regressie van een verandering in Database::select. Gefixt in r34388, zie link voor details. --Catrope 18:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki API bug
I have left a message at Talk:API that might interest you.

By the way, Battlestarwiki only allows users with an account there to leave messages on your talk page there. So you should probably point people to some other talk page, on some Wikimedia project that you visit second most.

--Davidgothberg 12:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed. And yeah, you're right, I'll change the message to say I watch this talk page too. --Catrope 12:57, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Xml:preserve
Fyi, w:Wikipedia:VPT. ^demon 05:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up; the guy had already come asking about this in #mediawiki after, where I explained the situation to him, but I'll leave a comment there for good measure. --Catrope 08:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

User:Tisane/Wikilinks implementing detection and indication of article existence on a remote wiki
Hi Roan, I will be developing Extension:RemotePageExistenceDetectionCentralizedListServer; if you have any suggestions, please let me know. This is my first extension, but hopefully I can borrow some code from similar extensions and synthesize/tweak it to suit my purposes. Thanks, Tisane 00:47, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think a generic implementation of remote existence checking in core would be more fruitful. --Catrope 10:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've thought about that, and that might be an easier route. But do you think there would be consensus for it? By the way, the proof of concept is ready. Tisane 08:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Tabbar thingy
Hi, you left sooner then I thought (I was typing ;-) I was going to link here:
 * m:Talk:Vector
 * 22986*22987Krinkle 22:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

SimpleSearch
Hello, I think it was you who made a pref to disable SimpleSearch (thanks!!), but I can't find where to disable it, can you help me? Manuelt15 08:04, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I wrote the code, but it's not live yet. It'll hopefully go live some time soon (this week or next). --Catrope 08:46, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Please advise
Please advise here Huji 22:21, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks pretty lazy to me
Don't you get enough pay? Cheers --kgh 11:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact that the example referred to 110 instead of 100 was pointed out on IRC, and I corrected it. It looks like I undid too much, though, so I'll correct that, sorry about that. --Catrope 13:11, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Done . --Catrope 13:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * What I did not like about the revert was that it was done without any commentary. This was the only reason why I did a total revert. Apart from that I kind of expected this "experiment" to change it to a more pragmatical and user-friendly 110 to fail. Thus newbies have to learn it the hard way that it is better to start at 110. However it is idle to put more thoughts into it. Cheers --kgh 14:05, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry about the lack of commentary, that was a mistake on my part. I should've taken the time to do a normal undo and explain. --Catrope 21:52, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. :-) Heaps of people feel similar like me in such a situation. Perhaps I was a bit to aggressive addressing this. I am sorry for that, too. Cheers --kgh 13:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Vector questions, bugs and problems
Hi, I was linked here form #wikipedia-usability to deploy here such staff. I am testing Vector skin and stuff which goes with it on cs.wv. So:
 * I have figured out, that inserting a link is a problem, because Czech keyboard doesnt recognize # character. I.e. editor must remember shortcut key or switch keyboard. I think this is disadvangate, becasue in Monobook he hade an opportunity to go to Special characters tab or make a button.--Juan de Vojníkov 16:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * So you're saying the # character should be in the special characters section? That can be arranged. --Catrope 18:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I am saying that in the box for inserting link should be a box with some special characters.--Juan de Vojníkov 21:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A lot of things are confusing. E.g. where to find this or that letter. Every project has a different system of special characters. So maybe this will help, if communities will not modify it.--Juan de Vojníkov 16:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we're standardizing the special characters widget, which should help people working on multiple projects. --Catrope 18:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I am wondering how to strike out the text, because in Monobook we can deploy a button. In Vector bar there is no . And traditional problem comes. These characters are not native to the Czech keyboard.--Juan de Vojníkov 16:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A project can add a strikethrough button locally if they want (the toolbar is customizable with JavaScript). I guess should also be added to special characters then. --Catrope 18:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well the truth is I copyed previously such button. Will be somewhere some examples available how to customize toolbar. I dont know JavaScript at all, I can also copy similar stuff.--Juan de Vojníkov 21:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Err I can add the signature in the Main NS? Remember there is Wikiversity, which sometimes needs to sign down in the Main NS. And how you will manage namespaces which are different from other projects?--Juan de Vojníkov 16:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently, we display the signature button in all namespaces except the main namespace, so as not to encourage novice users to sign stuff they're not supposed to sign. Most projects keep content in the main namespace and discussions and other things in other namespaces, so you wouldn't be signing anything in the main namespaces. Still, this could be overridden in site JS. --Catrope 18:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Said news. Hypothetical question: who will do that?.--Juan de Vojníkov 21:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Thx anyway, maybe I will come other day!--Juan de Vojníkov 21:09, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

— Danny B. 12:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC) — Danny B. 19:51, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The edit window sometimes seems to long, that I have to scroll up. It eats time. In Monobook it was not so big.--Juan de Vojníkov 22:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Preferences > Editing > Size of editing window.
 * Well, the problem might be that for new users, lets say lamers its set like this. And as Vector is for lamers, it is hightly inprobable they will come and they will change edit Window. I am indicating that, because with Monobook passing differnet screens and browsers I hadnt such problems.--Juan de Vojníkov 15:57, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * yes, missing characters of wikisyntax is a problem. Not just when edditing, but especially when inserting a link and image as they are not indigenous to many keyboards.--Juan de Vojníkov 10:29, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I cant add external link. I underline URL and click on Add link. Than I confirm operation, but it dont work.--Juan de Vojníkov 15:53, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Now using Opera 10.10. I want to ad an internal link, but it tells me "invalid name". So what is invalid on this: Studuji webdesign s Molly E. Holszchlag (Juan de Vojníkov)/Praktické problémy|Praktické problémy. If I were begginer, I would be confused whats wrong. --Juan de Vojníkov 11:41, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You are not supposed to put the displayed text into link field.  after the pipe belongs to Text to display and not to Target page or URL.
 * OK. That sounds good, better for newbies, but old users might be confused.--Juan de Vojníkov 13:41, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Sysop on br.wiktionary
hello,

I think you forgot to remove you sysop flag on br.wiktionary. See

Regards

--Hercule 14:39, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks. --Catrope 18:54, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikimedia projects job queue
Hi Roan, a curiosity: the Apaches seem less busy than a year ago, when the job queue was near zero, while now it's again quite long (about a million on en.wiki only). Why? --Nemo 10:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I can only guess here. The reason the Apaches are less busy is probably that we have more of them now. I'm guessing we still use the same number of job runners, so none of that added capacity is not being used for running jobs. I'll ask Mark about this. --Catrope 18:51, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, now with  the job queue is approaching zero everywhere. :-D --Nemo 16:34, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Ping
Roan, I've emailed you about the en.WP ArbCom elections. [ w:en:User:Tony1] tony 12:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Extension:UsabilityInitiative - Vector
I'm running M1.16 with UsabilityInitiative/Vector/Vector.php and all is fine, but search suggestions under the site title results --containing...-- (like on this page here on the top right) do not appear. This line $wgVectorUseSimpleSearch = true; is included. The title result are shown:

Result1 Result2 etc. but I am missing the

Containing ...

at the end of the list.

I can't find anything about this topic. I have set up a blank MW1.16 only including the Extension:UsabilityInitiative additionally - without success.

- MediaWiki 1.16.0

PHP 5.2.14 (cgi-fcgi)

MySQL 5.0.51a-24+lenny4

-

Any idea what's wrong here? Thanks in advance, Juergen--80.131.248.65 08:09, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The 1.16 version has the following "feature": if the text you entered is an exact match for a page title, the Containing... thingy will be shown. If it's not an exact match, you can do the "containing" search by just pressing Enter in the search box. After the 1.16 release, people started complaining that this behavior was unhelpful, and it was fixed. --Catrope 14:24, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * And is this exact the strange problem: if the text you entered is an exact match for a page title, the Containing... thingy will be shown. - Even it is an exact match the text 'Containing ...' and the line above this text do not appear. Not on my 'live'-wiki nor in the blank V1.16 installation. A full text search is running fine, using the lens or enter - but the text 'containing' fails. I use the extension for V1.16, I also tried different trunk versions (now set back) without any success. Juergen --80.131.248.65 14:57, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I just want to let you know, that I solved the problem with installing trunk version 72165. May be that it was a right problem too. Before I unpacked the file with winrar on my local pc, then I tranfered all via FTP. Now I unpacked it in a ssh-shell.

There is still a little problem left: The flashing cursor in the search input field disappeared - this happens only with the FireFox. Any ideas to this topic? Thanks, Juergen--80.131.217.210 11:27, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I just noticed that the cursor only disappears if 'global' => true, is set within 'expandablesearch' => array( 'global' => false, 'user' => false ),
 * Juergen --80.131.217.210 13:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * So I guess you can either disable ExpandableSearch or update to a more recent version. --Catrope 13:51, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I just tried the newest trunk 74799, then the 'containing...' fails again. Strange. What version should I use (MW1.16)? Thanks Juergen--80.131.217.210 14:43, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I have tried up to V75156, 'Containing ...' works, but Cursor fails in FF all the time when 'global' => true is set. Juergen --80.131.217.210 16:56, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

fileprops database schema
Talk:Files_and_licenses_concept -- Bryan ( talk|commons ) 20:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Live changes to jquery.client.js
Hi,

Just a little reminder that you changed the file live ( Server_admin_log ). From comparing to the live one to the one in svn :

I suspect this fix may intended to fix the errors on wikis on 1.17wmf1 that showed errors about $.client in debug mode. However those were related to those modules ($.client etc. from /w/resources) not being loaded – in contrary to those in skins or extensions (due to wgStylePath and wgExtensionAssetsPath). Which is fixed now with 82041.

Just a reminder so that it is either commited to trunk or reverted to the version from svn. Krinkle 01:09, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure that wasn't what the errors were caused by. I debugged this with a breakpoint at the  assignment, and that breakpoint was hit.
 * You're right that the fix should be committed to 1.17wmf1. I will go through the working copy and commit our changes on Monday. --Catrope 11:23, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Bugzilla:28835
Just a ping regarding 28835... Patch is finalized and ready for review.  — Edokter  ( talk ) — 17:54, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
at me on enwiki. Peridon 10:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Ribbons
How about adding Ribbons to wikilove?
 * I'm not sure why you're asking me this. I didn't write WikiLove, I just deployed it. Anyway, you should be able to do this by editing MediaWiki:WikiLove.js, which is the place where the community can define custom awards. See the documentation page for more information. --Catrope 14:38, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Wikimania2005wiki
Hi, Catrope. We (stewards) are in process of removing userrights on locked wikis. I noticed that in addition to being a sysop on Wikimania2005wiki, you were a local steward there. While I removed both rights, if you still need the local steward access I will reinstate it. (I noticed that you mentioned Wikimania2005wiki, when you added yourself to the global steward group back in July.) Regards. Ruslik0 18:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * At one point that wiki was our testing ground for a new software feature related to HTTPS (protocol-relative URLs), and I needed to be able to edit pages, that's why. I don't need those rights any more, and if I do I'll just give them to myself again. --Catrope 19:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I sort of understand now. However, I thought that global steward group membership was sufficient. I, for instance, can edit locked wikis without being a local steward. Ruslik0 19:11, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, to bother you again. Could you create an wm2005:MediaWiki:Sitenotice similar to one in wm2010:MediaWiki:Sitenotice? (save "See also feedback provided by participants" part) You seems to be one of few people still able to edit it. Ruslik0 11:28, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Menu-Tabs toggler
Hi Roan. I have the animation sorted now. I'd love to hear your overall comments on the menu-tabs toggle script I wrote, which is basically an improvement on CollapsibleTabs, and may fit very well in the Vector extension. It is now a gadget on enwiki, or you can import it from en:User:Edokter/MenuTabsToggle.js. What is left on my wishlist is to find out if mw.addPortletLink has some callback functionality that I can hook into, as the only problem remaining is that portlet links added to empty portlets afterwards are not included.  — Edokter  ( talk ) — 12:57, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're probably better off asking Krinkle, he's our resident JavaScript guru :) --Catrope 14:00, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Already did :) Overall non-code related comments still welcome though.  — Edokter  ( talk ) — 16:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback II
Hi, Catrope. You have new messages at en:User talk:Catrope. --Redrose64 19:02, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

"Edit this page"
Roan, is there a MW syntax (which doesn't involve hard-coding using "external" links) that can be used to create an "edit this template" link on a template? Deryck Chan 19:51, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes and no. You can create this link without having to hard-code the page name or URL, but it'll still be an external link. The syntax is, which produces [ edit this page]. If you don't want the link to be styled as an external link, use   : [ edit this page] . --Catrope 15:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No that one doesn't work - when a template is transcluded, the button lets me edit the transcluding page, not the template... Deryck C.Meta 11:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, that's because FULLPAGENAME gives you the name of the page it's transcluded on, not of the template itself. There is no magic word that does the latter, so you'd have to hard-code the name of the template. If you need to add this to multiple templates you could save yourself some work by doing the hard-coding with  . --Catrope 11:50, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fabulous, thanks! I suppose it's time we start switching all those "edit this template" buttons to (something equivalent to) this format, so as to prepare ourselves for http/https protocol overloading (forgot the correct word to describe this)! Deryck C.Meta 05:08, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Mediawiki 1.18
I notice that you port bug fixes to 1.18wmf1. Since the wmf version, according to my experience with 1.17wmf1, is not usable outside the wmf, could you also backport fixes to 1.18, so that 1.18 and 1.18wmf1 remain as close as possible? This would help people running separate mediawiki installations. Thank you for your work! G.Hagedorn 17:53, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have tagged my fixes for 1.18 merging, so they will be merged later. I just didn't merge them on the spot because 1.18 merging isn't as urgent as 1.18wmf1 merging. But rest assured the revs are on the list and will be merged before we release. --Catrope 17:57, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I appreciate this! G.Hagedorn

Database error 231 when protecting page in enWiki
Hi. I ran into Unknown error: "231" while doing a semi-protection operation on an article in the English Wikipedia. The page was successfully protected, but Twinkle's attempt to tag the page with the protection template (the little "lock" image in the upper right-hand corner) failed, and I had to apply the template in a separate Twinkle operation. I understand this is the result of a known bug (29246), which was fixed about a month ago, but apparently the fix hasn't made its way onto the Wikipedia servers yet. It was recommended to me that I ask you about the status of this bug fix. Thanks for any information. Rich wales (talk · contribs) 13:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The fix is in MediaWiki version 1.18, which is scheduled to be deployed to English Wikipedia on October 5th. --Catrope 14:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for letting me know. I've passed this info along to the Twinkle people.   Rich wales (talk · contribs) 14:13, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Special:ProtectedTitles and MediaWiki 1.18
Special:ProtectedTitles doesn't work in some wikis in MediaWiki 1.18wmf1. It only gives a bunch of error messages (w:fi:Special:ProtectedTitles, w:la:Special:ProtectedTitles, w:tr:Special:ProtectedTitles).

Internal error Non-string key given Backtrace:
 * 1) 0 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.18/includes/GlobalFunctions.php(1173): MessageCache->get(NULL, true, Object(LanguageFi))
 * 2) 1 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.18/includes/GlobalFunctions.php(1297): wfMsgGetKey(NULL, true, Object(LanguageFi), false)
 * 3) 2 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.18/languages/Language.php(644): wfMsgExt(NULL, Array)
 * 4) 3 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.18/languages/Language.php(664): Language->getMessageFromDB(NULL)
 * 5) 4 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.18/languages/Language.php(997): Language->getMonthName(false)

--Prob111 16:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the report. I'm traveling now so I've filed this as . --Catrope 14:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Problems with magic words considered as (non-existing) templates
Hello Roan, Problems again with 31576, since 1.19 again, can you solve it again? example Romaine (talk) 17:30, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also related to 31577, happening again too. Romaine (talk) 17:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably, same cause of false orphan pages (and sometimes, strange wanted categories) reported by Special Pages on pt.wiktionary. Malafaya (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Twinkle
Regarding your post on en wiki re twinkle it appears from posts at the village pump and on twinkles talk page that it still isn't working properly. Could you take another look. Thought i would ask in case you haven't seen it.Edinburgh  Wanderer  20:13, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Your user page
I made a few tweaks. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 16:30, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I should probably also link to my foundationwiki user page, we now have nicely standardized staff user pages over there. --Catrope (talk) 19:14, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Emergency CAPTCHA only for IPs
Hi, Roan. How are you? The Brazilian community has been discussing about the Portuguese Wikipedia CAPTCHA and we've learned a lot from your explanations to Oona, thanks! The ptwiki is configured for using emergency CAPTCHA for any user. We would like to know if it's possible to set the emergency CAPTCHA only for IPs, leaving the normal configuration as in other wikis for users that are not autoconfirmed, i. e., requesting CAPTCHA only for edits with URLS. Please, if you know the answer, tell us here. Thanks! --Ezalvarenga (talk) 20:30, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your quick answer, Roan! I think people will see if it's worth requesting this feature. Where should we ask this new feature? --Ezalvarenga (talk) 23:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * File a bug against the ConfirmEdit extension in Bugzilla (bugzilla.wikimedia.org). --Catrope (talk) 23:15, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Skins
Heiya Catrope,

I am not sure if you are the right person to contact in this case. Please direct me to the right spot, if there is one.

Yesterday I ran intro problems with skins. There are a couple of skins available in this spot. I think they should be separated and moved to that spot. Besides, splitting them into separate entities would provide the advantage of being able to author and document them separately.

Even though these skins are authored like extensions, it do not think that it is wise to install them in  instead of. Here their status of being a skin should have precedence before their status of being an extension providing a skin. Anyway they do not even work if installed as it is set up right now, because the CSS is not loaded. I believe we will run into heaps of confusion if it stays like this because they are in very different places of the MW installation which is not very intuitive, too.

However, this is just a suggestion to consider.

Cheers --&#91;&#91;kgh&#93;&#93; (talk) 10:40, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not in charge of our Gerrit directory structure, so I suggest you either bring this up on wikitech-l (preferred) or contact Chad directly. --Catrope (talk) 17:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your info and advice. Cheers --&#91;&#91;kgh&#93;&#93; (talk) 18:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Missing First header in Extension: Vector
Dear Catrope. Hopefully this is simple. In Extension: Vector the first header is hidden. When javascript is disabled it can be seen, when enabled it is hidden. See my post about it here: Where do I edit the Extension code to stop hiding the first header?

Thanks, --Sean Hensley (talk) 15:01, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Asuming you mean the "Navigation" header in the sidebar (I can't see your screenshots without registering), that is hidden by CSS, not javascript. The rule to look for is, located in  . Hope that helps. —  Edokter  ( talk ) — 16:25, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. I blanked out the following code:

display: none; }
 * 1) mw-panel.collapsible-nav .portal.first h5 {

background-image: none; margin-top: 0; }
 * 1) mw-panel.collapsible-nav .portal.first {


 * Now it shows the top header. and the items below it.  But it doesn't collapse.  See this Link  I've been looking through the code, but I still can't find what distinguishes the first entry.  Any help would be appreciated.
 * --Sean Hensley (talk) 03:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The top portal is made to always show by the following code in :

// Always show the first portal $( '#mw-panel > .portal:first' ).addClass( 'first persistent' );
 * Commenting out that code (without any other modifications) should acomplish what you are looking for. — Edokter  ( talk ) — 15:27, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * That's it! Thank you!  --Sean Hensley (talk) 22:33, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

WikiEditor, dialog module example
Hi, Catrope. I've been trying to use the WikiEditor to create a dialog. I've spent probably 12 hours over the last 3 or 4 days and I've completely failed. The documentation of WikiEditor doesn't really say how to do this. Would it be possible to add a basic working example to Extension:WikiEditor/Toolbar customization? The best example would be a button that brings up a simple form that has a single input. Cheers, Jason Quinn (talk) 02:42, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Template parameters inside ref
I mean the following seems to be forbidden: Deryck C.Meta 09:49, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, yeah that doesn't work. The hack of choice to make that work is:   --Catrope (talk) 10:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)