Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage redesign/Design Document

The scope of mediawiki.org + highlighting Wikipedia
In my opinion a big problem of the mediawiki.org homepage (and the site) is the fact that here we do and coordinate a lot more things than what can be deduced by a newcomer. All things MediaWiki need to be in place, sure. However, it is important to stress that no less than Wikipedia is based on MediaWiki, newest MediaWiki versions and many new features are tested there first. We won't solve here the deeper problem "MediaWiki" vs "Wikimedia tech", but we can't miss this chance to use the Wikipedia card, and get more downloads, contributors and reputations thanks to it.--Qgil (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I believe that show the environment and benefits of using MediaWiki is more important than showing technical requirements and show Wikipedia as a use case is more than necessary but we need show others cases, too. --monteirobrena (talk) 03:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

How to contribute
This is an open source project and it is important that any visitor realizes that it is also possible to contribute in many ways. See How to contribute.--Qgil (talk) 19:46, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The sidebar
We are limited by MediaWiki itself and by the Vector skin, and therefore we will keep the same structure of the page. However, we have flexibility in the design of the left column with the sidebar. We should check at its content, and we could also consider what can we do with CSS alone to highlight some items. Currently I don't think anybody is paying much attention to it.--Qgil (talk) 19:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree about the highlight some items. I as a new user of MediaWiki, I failed to notice that the sidebar is the same on every page and upload the option was there. --monteirobrena (talk) 03:28, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The benefits
I searched for a description of the benefits that we can take when using MediaWiki but not found. I appreciate if anyone has this information and can share here. --monteirobrena (talk) 15:25, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I found this informations Manual:Before installing, Possible uses of MediaWiki and Comparison of wiki software --monteirobrena (talk) 16:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * True that is. As far as I know we don't have a ready-made pitch for MediaWiki. We will need to create one (and this is beyond your scope, in my plate). One idea is to search online "why MediaWiki?" to see how others are pitching our software. Anyway, for this document what is important is to stress that the homepage needs to highlight the top n benefits, but if we haven't nailed down the list it is fine at this point, I think.--Qgil (talk) 05:46, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Deprecating the RFC "MediaWiki.org Main Page tweaks"
Please let me know when you are confident that any relevant point at Requests for comment/MediaWiki.org Main Page tweaks is reflected in the design document. Then we can organize a small review to agree on the deprecation of that document. Once Heather, you, and me agree, you will request the closure of that RFC, ok?--Qgil (talk) 06:00, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried to extract and compile all relevant points and add in Design Document, for me sounds like enough to our review. --monteirobrena (talk) 15:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Clearer priorities
Something to be improved in this document is a clear definition of priorities. The section Rationale, Main problems of current homepage, and Contents suggested by the community show many points, and it is easy to lose the attention. The sorting matters, and even a visual distinction between very important points and the rest would be welcome. Now it looks like the the lack of harmonization in colors is a big problem, while perhaps not many eyes will arrive to the important questions that this homepage is not answering. Prioritization is a key aspect of design and project planning. Don't be surprised if you end up spending more time reordering and deleting than writing. That is good.--Qgil (talk) 06:07, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that the lack of harmonization in colors is a big problem but I think this is almost the last thing that will fix because it depends on the content and structure of the page. --monteirobrena (talk) 15:42, 23 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I still think that that structure of the document doesn't reflect what we want to do and why. Also the amount of text in the intro and Rationale doesn't help getting quick to the point. You might have lost many potential stakeholders / contributors lost already at that point. "Questions" is almost at the end and, in fact, captures the essence of what really matters. If we agree on the questions that the MWO homepage should answer then we have a good start. If we agree on those questions then we can see which ones the current homepage is answering, and how effectively, and which ones are totally missing. Once the list of questions/answers is agreed, we could start working on details.--Qgil (talk) 19:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * This is a good point. We should set up this discussion and ask community to participate. (Meaning, we should probably set up another RFC rather than expect people to show up to the old one.) heather walls (talk) 20:27, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Most viewed pages in mediawiki.org
File:25 most viewed articles 201304.png could be replaced by a table in real text. At the end it just shows text, and it would be more readable and editable as text. Also we should link to the page. Note that the data of the bot is from April 2013, and we don't even know whether it is counting the full month or not. Maybe the statistic now are different... One question, why are you giving this prominence to this list of viewed pages? Just asking. Perhaps the current homepage influences that list. In any case it would be useful to understand what are these pages and group them somehow. For instance, "Extension:DPLforum" is not that relevant but it is relevant to know that users go to mediawiki.org to do something (what?) with information about MediaWiki extensions.--Qgil (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I not found the summary of the latest statistics. I found this but the search must be page by page. I'm sure the current homepage influence on the statistics. I highlight this list to reflect if these pages are what we want to be the most accessed. And if not, what we can do to bring more access to the pages we want.--monteirobrena (talk) 16:34, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Copy text
In Questions & answers I think the questions make total sense in this document but I'm less sure about the answers. Heather will know better, but do we need to get in such detail in the text, almost feeling like aiming to be final copy text? I just fear that these sentences can attract to much attention and arguments, while the big important and also more abstract points of the document are almost ignored. At this point it is not very relevant why exactly we want to use MediaWiki. What matters is that we want the homepage to answer this question. Etc.--Qgil (talk) 06:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right. At this point, we don't need worry about answering these questions. --monteirobrena (talk) 15:11, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually I think the document is exactly for writing out all of your thoughts. Part of the way we create a design solution is to first answer the questions in text or diagram and discuss them. I do agree that matters of importance need to be prioritized while "other issues" can be moved to a catch-all section. I think the rest of the document would benefit from further explanation of the list elements. heather walls (talk) 20:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Duplicated process
MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Design_Document and MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign largely overlap. Do you need this information in the design document? Yes or no, at the end there would be one list in one place, and then as many links as needed pointing to it.--Qgil (talk) 06:27, 20 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually the Deliverables is about my activities on OPW and I move it for my page. The Steps section refers to the iterative process that will be used in the construction of the project and I think it's better to keep it on MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign. --monteirobrena (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Internal links, external links, references...
I'm not sure about your use of references. This is a working document, not an encyclopedia article or an academic work. I would say that the use of links directly is more clear and efficient. Remember to link properly to internal pages and interwiki pages. See Help:Links.--Qgil (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The Download Button
While I like the placement of the download button in the new layout draft, I do think that underneath it, right above the "Or try and contribute" link, there should be links to download the previous two releases, in the event that someone wants to download MediaWiki but doesn't want the latest version or whatever. Similar to how php.net has three versions listed. That's just my opinion. --GeorgeBarnick (talk) 16:21, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * That is contradictory point. In Requests for comment/MediaWiki.org Main Page tweaks some people said that prefere keep just one download link that redirect to page where has links to download the previous three releases. We currently have links to the last three release notes, the table below has amount of accesses in the last 30 days. Perhaps this statistic can help us decide if we should keep them. I personally prefer something more succinct like the Firefox. --monteirobrena (talk) 16:23, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


 * {| class="wikitable"

! Page !! Amount of accesses
 * Download
 * style="text-align:right;" | 120873
 * Release notes 1.22
 * style="text-align:right;" | 4853
 * Release notes 1.21
 * style="text-align:right;" | 4324
 * Release notes 1.19
 * style="text-align:right;" | 3308
 * }
 * Release notes 1.19
 * style="text-align:right;" | 3308
 * }
 * }


 * We can discuss this further when the right time comes. At this point what matters is whether "How can I get MediaWiki?" is a question the homepage should answer, and I m sure we all agree that yes, it is an important question. :)  --Qgil (talk) 20:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Good lessons and inspirations
Here are some good lessons observed in other websites that we can get some inspiration. The most sites of software highlights the benefits and qualities to awakening interest to get and use the tool. We can see this in sites like Ubuntu, AngularJS, Fedora, Firefox and Gnome. The site OpenOffice classifies information into categories that facilitate and direct the users to find what they want. Sites as Android and Joomla show the amount of instances being used around the world. The Git and Play Framework show who are using. GitHub's site show some screenshots and describe why user will love use it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Monteirobrena (talk • contribs) 10:49, 27 December 2013‎ (UTC)

Language selector
The current box to select language on homepage occupy much space. I test the Extension:LanguageSelector and use it sounds better to me. I think we could use LANGUAGE_SELECTOR_AS_PORTLET selector but this configuration would apply for all pages and I doubt if this is acceptable. --monteirobrena (talk) 12:19, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Let's not challenge the current bars at the top of the page (English, Create account... and "MediaWiki.org, Discussion...). They follow default MediaWiki, they are deployed this way in all Wikimedia wikis, and if we try to touch them it might be technically complex and a source of unnecessary controversy.--Qgil (talk) 19:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, but this extension can add language selector under on sidebar not on top. --monteirobrena (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Questions from Main problems of current homepage and possible solutions
Thanks! heather walls (talk) 20:16, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Barely tapped space. - Can you say more about this and what it means? What would some solutions be?
 * 2) Does not transmit any feeling to visitors. - What feeling do you think it should transmit? What could be changed to make that happen?