Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements

Some opposes and supports with same argument

 * Moved at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Rollback_of_Vector_2022#Some_opposes_and_supports_with_same_argument

WHY WAS THIS ADDED?!
I friggin' hate the new look and it being the default for every project. The old look has become somewhat iconic, and disabled preferences for IPs have taken it away from them. To put it simply: NOT COOL. IPs are people too (talk) 18:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @IPs are people too. Thanks for coming here. I hear you; although we think the change is positive in general, it isn't necessarily better for each person with their specific needs. I presume you have selected Vector legacy as your default skin, haven't you?
 * Indeed, the lack of preferences for not logged-in means that this audience can't change the skin they see. But over time, they will be able to customize more and more things about the interface. Is that something you'd like to be informed of every now and then? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:38, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree this change makes it useless... would like to see statistics for how many users who actively disable the new look - Salgo60 (talk) 23:20, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've had my account set to vector legacy ever since the new look rolled out, because I also supremely dislike the new look. this has been pretty much fine so far because I'm always logged in, but today vector legacy stopped working, keeping me constantly on the new look, and I've been trying for half an hour to turn it off and have no idea how. I'd just like to be able to put vector legacy back on. Apelcini (talk) 00:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! How exactly did V10 stop working? Aaron Liu (talk) 22:30, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Originally I disliked the new one but it has grown on me and i now use it 2601:3C0:C100:42C0:5903:DBB5:415F:17AD 23:59, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There were multiple RfCs, and sometime last year there was a an long thread about removing it as default. There more in favor of returning the old one, but the wiki staff just dismissed it with 'you argument is weak' and stuff.
 * Here was it from last year:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Rollback_of_Vector_2022#c-GeebaKhap-20230412125400-Support_rolling_back_to_Vector_2010
 * Basically they made it and it will bo shoved into everyone's mouth no matter if it is good or not. Tarkalak (talk) 11:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, the closers were not part of the WMF, there was even a closure review that also got no consensus, and a ratio of fifty-something to a quite smaller fifty-something is a no consensus. What they did shove is the limited width by default, which was not the fault of the closers. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That url's useless. IPs are people too (talk) 02:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

The
Is it possible to disable the magic word  in Vector 2022? As I understand it is only used when the Table of Content is affecting readability of the article; as it is too dominant regarding article text. In Vector 2022 it is hidden or in the left margin and the Table of Content does not affect the articles text. By disabling the magic word for Vector 2022 all pages will look the same with the "hamburger menus" in the same places. LittleGun (talk) 08:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @LittleGun, it's good to see you here on MediaWiki.org. We were working on T317818 which seems to be related, but apparently, there were no clear decisions regarding the direction for NOTOC. I'll ask the team. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 22:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, here is a link to the Village pump at Swedish Wikipedia discussing this matter 1. A lot of the discussion is about when, and how to, use NOTOC in other skins. But everyone agrees NOTOC can be disabled in Vector 2022 for Wikipedia. LittleGun (talk) 12:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

目的の対象は？
こんにちは、お疲れさまです.

Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Updates/2023-10 for sister projectsをウィキクォート・ウィキブックス（いずれも日本語版）から、Google翻訳で読みました. 率直に私の感想を言いますと、「いい加減にしてください ≒ vecter2022への変更を断ります」です. skinをより良くしたい気持ちはともかくとして、私にとっては良くなっていません. 既出での問題ではありますが、目次とヘッダーが私の主要な問題点です.
 * 目次に対して - wikipediaは大項目主義と小項目主義とどちらを取るのかをまだ決定されていないと把握していますが、大項目のページでは、indexではなくTOCが要点として有用であったと思います.
 * ヘッダーに対して - ログインユーザーでないと固定されないのでは、スティッキーヘッダーの目的を達成できていないでしょう.
 * 他 - 「おまかせ表示」がハンバーガーの中に入ったのは不便ですが、それは私の（モバイル）環境があまり良くないからだと納得できますが、姉妹プロジェクトを閲覧するのに毎回メインページに戻るのは面倒です.

英語版wikipediaでも、vecterレガシーから2022に変更されたとき、かなりの不評があったのを見ていますが、「ウィキメディア財団 Web チーム」から、vecter2022を押し付けられてる感が否めません. 目的はskinの改善であって、wikimedia運動の参加者（ログインユーザ）を増やすことではないはずです.

以上、あくまで私個人の感想ですが、あらかじめ失礼をお詫びします. 温厚知新 (talk) 15:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @温厚知新さん! Thank you for your comment here. I very much appreciate that you have come to us to share your opinion.
 * Could you write more what you mean in this sentence, which Google Translate translates as "I understand that Wikipedia has not yet decided whether to use the large heading system or the small heading system, but I think that the TOC rather than the index would have been useful as the main point for the large heading page"
 * I'm not sure what's the meaning of the words translated as "large heading system", "small heading system", and TOC and index. Thank you!
 * Regarding the sticky header, what functionalities (what icons or links, search widget?) would you like to see in the version for logged-out users? Do you think these functionalities would be mostly useful for the logged-out editors or readers?
 * おまかせ表示 - we wanted to make the skin more understandable at first glance, at the cost of immediate access to many links. As you may know, most readers don't use the links in that menu, including おまかせ表示 You may read more about that on this page.
 * (On a side note, you will find the links to sister projects in the menu ツール, on the right side of the screen. On a narrow screen, this menu is collapsed, but on wider screens it may be displayed in the right column. I just mean you don't need to go to the main page to get to these links, but perhaps I didn't understand you.)
 * Thank you, SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 16:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply.
 * "I'm not sure what's the meaning of the words translated as 'large heading system', 'small heading system', and TOC and index."
 * TOC（目次）と index（索引）は実装されたときの議論で link を付けましたが、私の感覚では、目次と索引は用途が違います. large(small) heading system はカテゴリーのようなものでしょうか. 大きな項目だと一覧性は低くなりがちなので、読者の興味を引くような見出し名を、編集者は考えていたりするはずです.
 * ログアウトユーザーに対してスティッキーヘッダーに最低限必要と思うのは、Wiki logo・Search・Create account・Log in です. 私はvecter2022をあまり好きではないので、ハンバーガーは除外しました.
 * ツールに対しては、私の誤解で申し訳ありません. 関連付け(wikidate?)されたページには姉妹プロジェクトへのリンクがありました. 大変失礼をいたしました.
 * 言いづらいことではありますが、私個人の感覚としては、内容が読めれば skin はどれでもいいと思っています. --温厚知新 (talk) 18:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC) アンダーライン部分にリンク追加--温厚知新 (talk) 09:40, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * 追記 vecter2022で目次(TOC)とされている部分は「柱」になるのだと思います. --温厚知新 (talk) 09:40, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * 結局そのまま既定のものにされてしまって残念です. WMFが運営するwikipedia（および姉妹プロジェクト）というコンテンツのTOC（サイドバー？）と、ArticleのTOCを両方見れるvecterレガシーが、私にとって便利でした. 諦め半分の意見ではありましたが、実際に徒労となってしまって口惜しい限りです.
 * 願わくば、他の多くのプロジェクトで採用しているskinだから、合わせることが正しいと思われないよう祈っています. --温厚知新 (talk) 05:10, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Slow language selector in Vector 2022 theme
The language selector takes a lot of time to settle down. I have recorded a profile in Firefox, which can be accessed at the following link: https://share.firefox.dev/46CZJcB

During the recording, the browser spent 3 seconds in reflow.

This slow performance is so annoying that I have switched to the Vector legacy (2010) theme. Self-Perfection (talk) 10:50, 21 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I suppose I have finally found the correct place where this should be reported: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T349428 Self-Perfection (talk) 12:10, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Self-Perfection. Thanks for reporting this issue, I'll let our engineers know. Perhaps the task should be assigned to the team working specifically on the language selector, since the selector is not technically part of any skin; I'm sure the engineers will figure this out. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:32, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

At greek wiktionary?
Letter for deployment of V22 arrived at our el.wiktionary (Greek wiktionary https://el.wiktionary.org/) and feedback concerning the application of Vector2022 to dictionaries like wiktionaries is discussed at Vikileksiko:Wikiacademy:
 * https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/Βικιλεξικό:Βικιδημία/2023Vector

Editors, especially interface administrators working exclusively for wiktionaries are very welcome to participate. Thank you. Sarri.greek (talk) 13:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata and Commons?
Re Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Updates/2023-10 for sister projects, I'm hoping to see the new layout also become the default on Wikidata and Commons, so there is UI consistency across all of the Wikimedia projects, is this planned to happen soon? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey @Mike Peel. Thanks for bringing this up.
 * We will approach those communities, too, but we don't have any specific plans with timelines just yet. As you surely know, in terms of cross-wiki UI consistency for logged-in users, setting up a global preference is a solution. Currently, it's the only one.
 * Another possibility for any experienced community member at any time is to start a bottom-up pre-deployment coordination, for example checking if there are any popular gadgets that need to be adjusted, or any wiki-specific needs that are currently not met. Do let me know if you're interested in partnering with us in this, or if you know of anyone wanting to dedicate some of their time. That would be most welcome! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 22:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @SGrabarczuk (WMF)! I've already set up Vector2022 as a global preference for my account, and am keeping an eye out for specific bugs that can be fixed on-wiki. I think there are some that need configuration elsewhere, though, e.g., what appears on the left vs. right menus now they've split. If you posted on the project chats for Wikidata and Commons, I'm sure you'd find people interested in helping with this (I can help a bit, but don't have much time at the moment). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:34, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Sticky header
Hi. Are there any plans to add a sticky header with at least page name on version diffs? IKhitron (talk) 20:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great question, @IKhitron. I've opened a Phab ticket – let's see if there are any engineering or design reasons for not enabling this for diffs. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. IKhitron (talk) 00:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Breaking change
Hello. A couple of hours ago there was a group1 new deployment. Could you tell me, please, what breaking change was in the HTML structure in the New Vector? I'm trying to fix the Watchlist Manager gadget, because suddenly all its buttons on this skin disappeared (on some browsers, what looks like a synchronization problem). It never happened before. If you could tell me what did you change, I can try to fix the problem. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 00:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)


 * There’s been no significant changes except the addition of the new addPortlet API which wouldn’t cause buttons to disappear. You can review all the new Vector changes here: https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-skins-Vector/compare/wmf/1.42.0-wmf.2...wmf/1.42.0-wmf.3
 * Could you share the code to your gadget? It will be easier for me to help you diagnose what's happening here if I am able to see the code. Jdlrobson (talk) 16:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Weird. Of course, @Jdlrobson, it's he:Mediawiki:Gadget-WLM.js. You can turn off in Special:Preferences the option "ignore all the edits except the last one", turn on the Watchlist filters option, and open the watchlist in Vector and also in New Vector. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 16:10, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like oojs-ui-core has been added as a dependency in he:מדיה_ויקי:Gadgets-definition yet that gadget seems to use OOUI for rendering buttons. What happens if you wrap your code like so?:
 * Jdlrobson (talk) 18:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It definitely helped, @Jdlrobson, thank you. And it fits my earlier mentioned suspicion about a synchronization problem, if this library started yesterday to load a little later. I'll ask other people that complained. If it's fine on their side too, can I restore the code and move the library into the Gadgets definitions? IKhitron (talk) 19:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep gadgets definition sounds like it would be the appropriate action here (assuming it's only running on watchlist page/logged in users)! Jdlrobson (talk) 21:30, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Great. Thank you very much for your help. IKhitron (talk) 21:42, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem! Glad we got to the bottom of the problem! Jdlrobson (talk) 22:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Add dropdown for sticky edit button when not at the top
Hello I was wondering for people who have the option "Show me both editing tabs" in the setting "Editing mode" enabled, if it would also produce a dropdown menu for the edit button that's on the sticky header when scrolling down a page. Currently the button opens up only the visual editor which isn't ideal when you want the 2017 or source editor instead for a specific scenario. The current solution is having to scroll all the way back up to get to the button, or switch to source after the visual editor is done loading.

Personally I think this would be an amazing change to speed up editing and would reduce frustration when trying to edit. Thank you. WanderingMorpheme (talk) 01:18, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Wait my mistake, it already has its own button that looks like to edit the source code, feel free to ignore this whoops. WanderingMorpheme (talk) 17:28, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Use full width on Wikisource's Index namespace
On Italian Wikisource, after hiding all the menus, ns0 and nsPage use the full width of the screen, and this is good. But nsIndex does not: how can I achieve the same effect? Thank you. Candalua (talk) 16:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Candalua, thanks for asking us this question. This is a matter of local wiki settings, something technically controlled by the team. Index on it.wikisource is an interesting case – as the standard view, there are three columns in the content area. I will get back to you on it.wikisource itself to continue this discussion. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 16:53, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @SGrabarczuk (WMF)! I think the devs actually enlarged the nsPage layout especially for us, because we had complained about it; maybe they just have to do the same thing in the Index namespace. Candalua (talk) 17:08, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I mean, perhaps I would soften "have to" to "need to" :D but putting English grammar aside, yes, this is exactly what the choice is about. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 17:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

How to add a new tab after Edit
We have a gadget that add a custom tab after "Edit" and "History" tabs. But the layout breaks, because the container does not become bigger, so this tab ends up on a new line. What is the proper way to add a new tab through a gadget, without breaking the layout? Thank you. Candalua (talk) 16:42, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * mw.util.addPortletLink? Since you didn’t tell us where the code is, I have no idea what the broken solution is, and if this function could actually help you. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 11:34, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll complete the answer myself: this code adds a new tab after History: mw.util.addPortletLink('p-views', mw.util.getUrl( 'Special:Example' ), 'Example'); Thanks. Candalua (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

How to set a logo in Vector 2022?
Hello, I have a problem, I added the code to display the logo in Vector 2022, but unfortunately the logo does not display.

Topic:Xt63zroehwwpfvw6 Monocero (talk) 20:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Seriously, does anyone know why I can't set the logo to display in Vector 2022? Monocero (talk) 10:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Change language on Recent Changes
With the old Vector, from the Recent Changes page it was possible to go to a different language edition (if interwikis had been added to the page). In the new Vector, even where interwikis are present (such as it.ws) this is no longer possible (it says "the contents are not supported in other languages"). Why has this function been removed, and is it possible to have it back? It was very useful for multi-language users. Candalua (talk) 08:47, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Nov 2023 updates: Dissapearing gray vertical line
I looked at french Wikipedia to checkout the changes.

In "menu principal", when folding it out, a gray thick vertical line is first appearing at the right hand side of the menu.

It then disappears, "dissolves", in a way that looks animated by choice.

It is not mentioned in the description of updates. Was it made on purpose, and implemented for all or do I see some kind of bug? To me it is disturbing with the ani,ation at the side of text I want to read.

I am running Chrome on Chromebook. LittleGun (talk) 06:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Switch to old look
I like vector-2022 but I can't use it because none of my users would unterstand "Switch to old look". How can I get rid of it? 89.206.82.191 10:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure what you mean by "none of my users would understand 'Switch to old look'." If you'd like not to see the "Switch to old look" link, edit your CSS (if it's about your wiki, you may edit your MediaWiki:Common.css; if it's about a wiki you read, you may use a browser plugin. Try to use .vector-main-menu-action-opt-out {display:none;} Does that answer your question? Does that code work for you? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That was it for my Wiki used only by a dedicated group (historians).
 * Thank you.
 * It's not very easy to find the right class for an item and where to control it: Your help works in my Common.css, but not in my (till now still local) installation in Vector.css. ???
 * Probably I should spend more time to dive deeper in DevTools. 89.206.82.135 08:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What if a wiki has never used Vector 2010? This link should be officially configurable, not only using on-wiki CSS (and be removed after some time – Vector 2010 doesn’t have a “Switch to MonoBook” link either).
 * You should use MediaWiki:Vector-2022.css to configure Vector 2022. While using MediaWiki:Vector.css may work if $wgVectorShareUserScripts is set to true, doing so is deprecated. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Add Sticky ToC to Dev Docket
I was redirected here from Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements/Features/Sticky_Header. I'm running MW 1.39.3 using Chameleon with a sticky wiki navigation header, which works great, but I think it would be very useful to have a sticky table of contents for the same reasons as stated for the header on the referring page.

Since the Sticky Header has been taken up as part of the Desktop Improvements project, I think it would be prudent to include the ToC.

Thanks ~z929669 Talk 04:47, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

EDIT: Now I finally realize that the new look include a sticky ToC at left. I honestly couldn't find it when scanning purposefully. It looks like a solution for me would need to come from Chameleon or my own custom tweaks. Sorry to clutter the page with my nonsense. ~z929669 Talk 05:03, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The "missing in XXX language" in language drop down menu is obnoxious
When you click "X language" on the top right corner (in the new Vector kin), it shows a drop down menu. The the menu, it sometimes will also show a "missing in XXX, YYY, and more" if other language versions you've used before don't have this article, at the top.

The problem is, this part isn't loaded together with the rest of the menu. It loads separately and asynchronously, and there is often a small delay between the menu opening and it shows up. Once this part is loaded, it shifts every other things below down.

This causes an issue that, when I click the menu, I already start moving my cursor towards the link I want, and try to click it. The shift-down makes I misclick, multiple times a day. This is very, very obnoxious.

Please fix this, either move it to the bottom, leave the space fixed before loading, or even better, don't draw the UI until everything is loaded. This is classic bad UX.

Thanks. fireattack (talk) 07:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Fireattack, thanks for reporting this issue. I have created a Phab ticket for it.
 * Because the Universal Language Selector is a different piece of software, technically not part of a skin, it's another team's job to fix it. They have recently raised this task's priority, and I hope they will work on it soon.
 * Thanks, SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @SGrabarczuk (WMF)! fireattack (talk) 16:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)