Project:Support desk/old

Global word replacement
Hi, the Malay language is still evolving with changes in spelling or terminology. How do I do a global word replacement? PM Poon 10:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See the question above --Nad 12:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Two Pressing Issues - Image Processing and URL Rewriting
Hello - I'm the owner of ZeldaWiki.org, and we're having some pretty troubling issues at the moment. They are twofold:
 * Selected thumbnails will not generate. This is displayed on our "Link" page. Many of Link's images give the error "Cannot create thumbnail:", but do not specify any further error message. I use ImageMagick to generate images, and this problem has persisted ever since we moved servers.
 * Do you know whether or not ImageMagick is installed on the new server and what path it is located at?
 * Yes. ImageMagick is installed and the convert command is located at /usr/bin/convert/. Also, ImageMagick is working properly on another site of mine, Zelda Universe.net - I've tried reinstalling ImageMagick, but that didn't seem to do anything. Upping the PHP mem limit also didn't help. --Jason 14:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't see why it wouldn't be working... the thumb script is reading the proper image, because this test shows that it knows the original size and gives a proper error saying it won't make it bigger. You could try adding some additional output into thumb.php to tell you exactly what command it's attempting to do and then seeing what happens when you replicate that command from the shell? You could also try replacing thumb.php with the 1.10 version and see if that one works. --Nad 21:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I wanted to use a file from 1.10.1, but was unable to find that release for download (nor 1.10.0). I tried 1.10.2, but because the problem began with 1.10.2, it was expected that it would not work. --Jason 11:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * When you updated the DB did you move the images folder from the old installation to the new one?--Gregorcy 21:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I checked and made sure all images were uploaded properly. --Jason 18:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Since upgrading to 1.11.0, URL rewriting has ceased to work properly. I checked the .htaccess, and rewriting is on. In fact, to go to a URL manually or to search for a page will take you to the correct page with the correct URL. It is only with special functions (such as editing, uploading, viewing history, etc) that the user is taken to the wrong URL.

My previous URL schema was /pagename. I have changed it to /index.php?title=pagename in order to fix this URL issue - clicking on any of the tabs at the top of the page brings you to an odd index.php page when the URL schema is the former. It is, however, crucial that the short URL's are working. --Jason 11:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm having this trouble since upgrading to MW1.11 as well, I've found that it's not the rewriting itself, but rather seems to be a problem with having $wgArticlePath set to "/$1", it stops it from being broken by setting it to "/wiki/index.php/$1" (or whatever path your is at), but of course this means that some URL's won't be friendly. I'll let you know when I figure out the problem and get the URL's working properly again. --Nad 12:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm narrowing the problem down (see MediaWiki 1.11 title extraction bug), and have found the the issue only occurs when $wgUsePathInfo is set to true. The $wgUsePathInfo global is used to allow URL's to specify the article title using a slash after index.php (eg. /wiki/index.php/myArticle). If you ensure that your rewrite rule translates friendly URL's to the full long-form using the title query-string item, then setting $wgUsePathInfo to false will get your friendly URL's working properly again. The only drawback of this is that you won't be able to have titles with un-encoded ampersands in them, but this is far less of a problem than friendly URL's not working at all. --Nad 04:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I narrowed the problem down to a new WebRequest method called extractTitle, but I'm not sure what they're trying to do with it, so until they come up with a proper solution I've just replaced the WebRequest constructor method with the one from MediaWiki 1.10, and made the interpolateTitle method (which makes the calls to the problematic extractTitle method) return without doing anything. This allows $wgUsePathInfo to be set to true allowing /wiki/index.php/foo style requests. See MediaWiki 1.11 title extraction bug for details. --Nad 07:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you, this solution has fixed the problem. Let's hope they do something with that extra code, else get rid of it altogether. --Jason 11:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

CommonSettings.php
How do I get this to work properly?? Just installed MediaWiki 1.11 on WAMP, Windows XP Home Edition. I'm using this so all my wikis which run MW 1.11 have the same settings. Thanks, —82.42.237.84 22:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding link entries into the footer section
Hi Im trying to add links into the footer section and just wondering how to do this through MonoBook.php. Ive found the section: // Generate additional footer links ?>			 data[$aLink] ) && $this->data[$aLink] ) { ?>				">html($aLink) ?> <?php 		} And wish to add page links in here. For example, Id like to have a link in here called: Change Log That goes to page http:// /mediawiki/index.php/Change_Log I cant hard code the full url path, because my server is accessed via 2 different urls, so I need to somehow put the new entry in without hardcoding the server name. Thank you. —58.175.32.115 23:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a global variable called $wgServer which is the domain that the current request is dealing with. Have a look at all the path variables as others may also be of interest. Also if you want to create a link to a title which uses the proper URL format and is independent of the current domain or wiki installation specifics, use the following method:


 * --Nad 03:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Nad! Thank you heaps! You really do know your stuff!!! :>) Thank you.

Config subdirectory unwritable by webserver.
When i go to my wiki, it comes up with a message saying

"In order to configure the wiki you have to make the config subdirectory writable by the web server. Once configuration is done you'll move the created LocalSettings.php to the parent directory, and for added safety you can then remove the config subdirectory entirely."

I do not have access to the server, what should i do? —75.17.17.185 15:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You must have had sufficient access to be able to get the MediaWiki installation there, whatever you used for that (eg. an FTP program?) should give you the ability to set permissions on the files. --Nad 21:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I used an FTP client, i dont know which permissions to set to make the directory writable.
 * You'll need to read the documentation for you ftp client to find out how you go about setting file permissions with it, when you've done that just make the config directory world-writable during install then move the generated LocalSettings.php file into the parent directory and lock the config directory down again or delete it. --Nad 03:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help =)

Can I call a Command Line Tool (in maintenance directory) without command line access?
Is it possible to call the command-line tool (dumpBackup.php for example), located in the maintenance directory, without having access to the command line? I mean - php code should be able to call other php code...

Thanks for help, -PMay 16:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a browser-based command line script thingy at phpShell. — color probe — Talk  — Contribs 18:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

nofollow tags
I'm aware that this probably sounds noobish, but I would like some basic information on how to add the  attribute to the   tags for a specific interwiki link prefix. The wiki that I aid in administrating is trying to avoid boosting this one site's rankings as much as possible, which is difficult, seeing as we frequently link to them. I'm very inexperienced at PHP coding, and any assistance would be much appreciated. —Linus M. 17:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ on every page in Main Namespace
Hi guys! Id like to include the NEWSECTIONLINK on every page/and every newly-created page, by default in the Main Namespace. Appreciate if someone could give me some pointers. Thanks —58.175.32.115 02:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding the following to your localsettings should do it, no guarantees though ;-) --Nad 04:28, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Nad champion. I will give it a try :>) Nad gave it a try and it didnt add. Wondering if there is any way to add this to a template, and the template is called for every page in the Main Namespace.
 * I tested the code and it does as expected, but make sure you edit and save or add action=purge to ensure you're not viewing cached output, because changes to the script do not invalidate parser-cache content. --Nad 07:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * >) Thanks Nad will do.

Showing older versions until the newer version of an artical ain't released
OK, my English is not so good but I hope you'll understand me anyway.

I want to protect my articles of viewing by anyone except a special group. If anyone else is trying to watch these articel, protected by me, he will be shown an older version that was released earlier. It's a kind of quality management. As long the newer informations are not checked by anybody in that special group, the older version of this articel should be shown. Is there any extension or a possibility of MediaWiki to do that? —213.214.18.64 06:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a popular request, but currently I don't think there is such an extension. --Nad 07:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually there is Extension:PageProtectionPlus, and Extension:CrudeProtection that seem to address the issue here. Check these out. 72.149.111.10 12:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Neither of those extensions appear to be addressing this requirement. The idea I believe is to limit the default public view of an article to a certain revision until a member of an authorised group releases it to either the current or a more recent revision. None of the current security extensions are dealing with revisions, but rather just deny access completely to certain content of all revisions. --Nad 22:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Those extensions doesn't accomplish the requirements --213.214.18.64 12:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is too difficult to achieve and I'm working on a simple extension to do it, your comments about the method would be welcome, see OrganicDesign:Talk:Extension:PublicRevision.php --Nad 11:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Upload files directly into a page
Hi! Just wondering if there is an extension that will allow you to upload files directly into a page instead of using the "Upload File" option, which you then have to reference what file you have uploaded into the page. —58.175.32.115 08:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, sorry. You do have to admit, though, that refrencing it inside an article makes it appear neater when you go to edit it. 72.149.111.10 12:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

write a message at the top of the article
I want to display one message at top of any any article that will be decided by administrator. Please have one look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honesty and tell me how to implement it in mediawiki Thanks in advance —Bpishere 11:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's just a template, you can see it in the source if you edit the page. Are you meaning that you want a message to appear on all pages without adding a template to the source? --Nad 20:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

posix_uname
Whenever I try to enter my wiki, this error pops up: Warning: posix_uname has been disabled for security reasons in /home/diez2/public_html/wiki/includes/Setup.php on line 80 Also, the function in setup.php on line 80 is: if ( function_exists( 'posix_uname' ) ) { $wguname = posix_uname; $wgNodeName = $wguname['nodename']; } else { $wgNodeName = ''; } What is going on here? 72.149.111.10 12:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's probably that your hosting provider has disabled the uname functionality at the OS level but has not disabled it from PHP. The php.ini needs to be edited to remove the uname function. Alternatvely just hack the code by removing the condition above and setting $wgNodeName to the empty string. --Nad 21:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

DynamicPageList2 and MW 1.11
This is a Simple Forms issue so I've moved it to Extension talk:Simple Forms --Nad 21:09, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Searching for content directly from mySql
I am trying to generate a SQL Query so I can do some custom search's on the database trying to find some information. Can someone please help me with this query? I don't think I have it 100% correct to only pull CURRENT articles that match certain items i will insert into the query string.

SELECT page_id, page_title, old_text FROM wikidb.page, wikidb.revision, wikidb.text WHERE page_title like '%NES%' AND old_text not like '%#REDIRECT%' AND page_id=rev_page AND page_latest=rev_id AND rev_text_id=old_id ORDER BY	page_title —143.166.226.40 22:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Optimizing for Mobile Phone
Hi

I'd like to optimize my wiki specially for mobile phones. So I have to limit the size of pages and images. How can I manage this, I couldn't find any informations about this topic. THX

—Hfritschi 07:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The [ chick] skin which is one of the out-of-the-box skins is considered to be a minimal skin for use with low-resolution devices. --Nad 08:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice I changed the skin to chick but it's not exactly what I want because the skin is changed when I open the page on my mobile. I'd like to limit the count of characters so the pages won't be to big for downloading on the mobile. --Hfritschi 13:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I once submitted something similar as bugzilla:9711; maybe this is something more likely to be done on API. Tizio 14:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Problems Installing Wiki on Godaddy Hosting
Hi i am new to mediawiki and have always wanted to install a wiki on my site but for the past few days i've been having quite a bit of errors with different versions of your installs i first downloaded 1.6 and it gave me an error saying the string was to long(1024) when inserting into mysql db then i downloaded 1.11(current version) it gave me the same error so finally i downloaded 1.9.3 then i received error saying incorrect php version(my hosting has 5) so i fixed that now i have the page successfully installed but when i click the link it provides after the install i get a blank white page http://wiki.clanska.net/index.php?title=Main_Page i know the php script is working because if you try just typing wiki.clanska.net it automatically puts in http://wiki.clanska.net/index.php?title=Main_Page has anyone else had this problem with there installing of the wiki on there godaddy hosting? —Idiot nation2000 14:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Delete old Image-version?
Is it possible to delete old Image-Versions permanently?

I've seen that they are stored in the folder "deleted" and were renamed, so I don't know which pic I could delete. Is there any better way to do this?

Thanks for help! —84.60.19.172 21:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Site logo only showing on EDIT pages. Does not appear when viewing page directly
Just did a fresh install. I have $wgLogo configured correctly, but it does not show on my pages when viewing them normally. It does however show when I go to edit a page. I am assuming this is an issue with some script path. Any suggestions? Thanks. --97.100.47.148 21:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's really odd - can you see a difference in the html source around the image in normal view compared to edit? or perhaps it's to do with JS being loaded in edit and not in normal view - the transparency fix in wikibits.js may be affecting it? --Nad 00:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Uploading
The uploading to my site is working great except when its a rather large image. Instead of creating a thumbnail for it, it's taking me to a blank page. I have other images that are smaller that are working fine.

Here is an example of one not working: The direct link here [] where it uploaded is fine..

As you can see from my [Imagelist] it's working fine for the other images.

What am I doing wrong? —Eroc 21:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * sorry I scewed up and didn't include a headline, hope this fixed it... -Eroc 21:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Links
Hi there,

I'm a newbie with wikimedia. I installed it described in the manual and it works fine. Now I have one problem. We want to use wikimedia in our intranet. For the usage, it is necessary, that we can place links to files on our fileserver. But the only links i can set, are http, ftp, media and picture. I read some faq's, but i didn't found an answer. how can I link e. g. *.doc - files on a intranet - fileserver?

thank you

donhuan78p

—Donhuan78p 08:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You can add the file:// protocol to $wgUrlProtocols but your browser will still not allow the links to work. You need to adjust the browser settings or add a plug-in, for example see the LocalLink extension for Firefox. --Nad 08:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Geshi
hello,

i am using mediawiki version 1.11 and now i want to use the geshi extension. i installed it how the manual tells but it doesn't work. please help me.

thx gorac

—194.94.72.252 11:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC) There are many different GeSHi extensions, which one did you use? and what are the details of the problem that's happening?
 * Extension:Geshi
 * Extension:GeSHiCodeTag
 * Extension:SyntaxHighlight GeSHi
 * Extension:SyntaxHighlight GeSHi extension

Adding HTML
Can I add an html. link into the Main page?
 * You have to have  set to   in your LocalSettings.php, see Manual:$wgRawHtml, to be able to use HTML -- Dr DBW  |  talk  22:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * is very dangerous. Use Extension:HTMLets -- Duesentrieb ⇌ 23:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Question about ifexist
Hi all,

I'm a user at the galician wikipedia. We have some images there in .jpg format that exist in commons in .svg format, and a template that uses the images in .jpg. I tried to use the expression to choose the svg image if it exists in commons and the local jpg if not, but i realized that this can't be done, it just can check wether a local page exists or not. Does anyone know if there is some way to do this check? I hope I have explained myself, if not just let me know. Thanks in advance. —Banjo 20:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think you can do a condition on an external item like that, you could try doing an interwiki-transclusion inside a condition, but I don't think it would be a very good idea as it would make the site unresponsive. --Nad 02:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Random page in different namespaces
If you click on Special:Random you go to a page in the main namespace. If you click on Special:Random/Help you go to a page in the help namespace. Is is possible to specify which namespaces will be included if you click on Special:Random? Or does there exist another way for doing this? SPQRobin 21:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

BASEPAGENAME problem
Hi,

I'm running MediaWiki 1.11.0, and I am experiencing problems with the variable which does not seem to work correctly for sub-pages. For a Page named Something:Foo/Bar, instead of returning 'Foo', it returns 'Foo/Bar'. Any ideas? —194.112.191.2 23:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Solved. Finally found Manual:%24wgNamespacesWithSubpages. --194.112.191.2 23:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

image directory permissions
With $wgHashedUploadDirectory set to true, MediaWiki 1.11.0 is creating image subdirectories with permissions=644. That's not good; they need to be 755. Is this a known issue? Is there some configuration option I need to set?

MediaWiki: 1.11.0, PHP: 5.2.4/phpsuexec, MySQL: 4.1.22-standard, Linux 2.6.19.2-grsec &mdash; 71.232.147.135 01:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

PHP settings for regular expressions
I'm trying to create Belarusian Tarashkevitsa Cyrillic <-> Latin converter based on Crimean-Tatar converter written by AlefZet.

I tested it on XAMPP 1.6.3a (Apache HTTPD 2.2.4, MySQL 5.0.45, PHP 5.2.3) for WinXP with MediaWiki 1.11.0, but it's works incorrectly in cases where regular expressions with Cyrillic characters (UTF-8) are involved.

What is correct configuration of PHP (php.ini) must be for work of regular expressions with UTF-8 characters?

Thank you for help.

EugeneZelenko 03:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you using preg or ereg? preg will usually handle exotic features more robustly and also usually perform faster then the native PHP ones. --Nad 04:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Converter uses preg_replace. Regular expressions which works incorrectly are very simple ones like С[Ьь].
 * You could see converter code in be-x-old:Удзельнік:EugeneZelenko/Канвэртар.
 * EugeneZelenko 13:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Wiki- Visitor Count
The OSC practice has the following WIKI http://hpedia.fc.hp.com/index.php/Outsourcing_Solutioning_Methodology. We wanted to know more about he visitor count for this page. The count is provided at the bottom of the page. Is the count set to "0" (Zero) begining of every month or its a cummulative count that is depicted in the page. —15.219.201.69 04:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Accumulative. -- Dr DBW  |  talk  00:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hope someone else can verify this.....(Bug? or not eg.by design)
Hi guys. This is most likely by design, but I thought Id mention it. I want to use the Extension ArticletoCategory, so when I go to a Category page, I can enter the name of a new page in a text box, and it threads in automatically, the Category name. This works fine on its own. However, I also use the Extension Preloader, and i have a 1 liner in the file Template:Boilerplate, which I attach to all pages created in the Main Namespace by default. It is __NEWSECTIONLINK__. It looks like you cant use the Preloader and Template Boilerplate WITH the Extension ArticleToCategory. What happens is that if you try and create a new page FROM a Category page, and input the name of the new page, the Extension ArticleToCategory ceases to work, and the Category name is not automatically inserted into the new page's contents. Only the Preloader text is there. If someone else could verify this, or could tell me that you cant use Preloader with Extension ArticleToCategory, that would be great. I would also be great if you could use both together. Thank you.

—58.175.32.115 07:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

allow registration only after confirmation by SYSOP
I wonder if it is possible to allow user registration only after confirmation/approvement by SYSOP. Couldn't find it anywhere. --82.113.113.81 09:32, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is an extension called ConfirmAccount which you could try. — color probe — Talk  — Contribs 18:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Create own Categories
Is it possible to create own Categories, so I can add pages to this "category"?

Example: I'm planning a wiki about books and want to allocate this book to an author, so I get a complete listing of all books from this author automatically. If I do this with a Category, the page has the name "Category:Name of the Author". My wish is, to get the name "Author:Name of the Author". Is there any way to do this?

Thanks for help -80.141.61.210 10:58, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Categories are a special namespace and there can't be multiple ones that work like that, you could change the textual name of NS_CATEGORY, but that would mean all categories would then be authors. A couple of ways which would work but are a bit of a hack are:

Both methods should have the "Author" namespace added. --Nad 11:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Put   in the author category to change its displayed title, then create corresponding article called "Author:xxxx" which redirect to the appropriate category.
 * Create articles of the name Author:xxxxx which contain DPL queries of the form   which would then behave just like the category page would do.

Cannot Upload foto's it gives a Internal error....
I Cannot upload anything on my wiki. If i do that it gives this error.

Internal error

Could not create directory "public/e/ea".

I made the directory public in my wiki dir and chmod 777 on it. But still no succes. Please help me !

Thank you, Bombaci —83.80.25.69 12:22, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Make sure the directory is owned by the same user/group as the webserver, if still no luck you may find that PHP has been given restricted access in which case you can set $wgHashedUploadDirectory to false so that directories do not need to be created when uploading files. --Nad 20:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.11.0 - IE7 Bugs with SearchPortlet / wgServer undefined? Need help please!
Hi, i moved with my wiki from keyweb to 1blu.de -> watch-wiki.de redirects now to the new site: http://57495.webhosting22.1blu.de There i got 2 problems with the Internet Explorer 7 (6 not tested). In Firefox i can enter a searchstring in the search-portlet and can press enter to search for. Works fine. But when i enter a string in IE there i got an error from the IE which says: 'wgServer' is undefined....Line 43 but dont know which file.... but i can press the "artikel" button to do the search, that works but the second problem is that the enter button does not work in IE to perform a search!

can anybody help me please? —85.179.216.181 12:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki and Oracle???
hi,

we want to build a little troubleshooting database and wanted to realize this with mediawiki and oracle. i saw that in version 1.6 mediawiki had a point oracle (experimental) included. but now i cannot find anything about mediawiki and oracle. can someone tell me if there is a possibility to run mediawiki with an oracle database? or might that feature be implemented in later releases?

thanx for ur ansers so far thomas

—213.61.105.90 14:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Auto Refreshing pages in Mediawiki
Guys! Id like to add the below code to EVERY page of my wiki into the section, which auto refreshes the current page every 60 seconds. Im not sure which php file to add this to, whether its skin.php, index.php etc. Thank you. 

—58.175.32.115 22:43, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Best not to hack scripts in the codebase, add the following to your localsettings.php --Nad 01:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Nad :>) As always a huge thankyou.

UML Class Diagram
Hi, I am a Computer Science Student in BC Canada. I am currently studying your MediaWiki source code and seeing how I can integrate it into my Practicum Project. I am wondering if you have a UML Class Diagram or Flow Charts that you can provide to help me get an overview of the interaction between the modules/classes? You can contact me via my E-Mail address at recyclerx@yahoo.com. —24.82.215.253 01:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Page Title Heading Not Present
Noticed that Wikipedia on the Main Page does not have the page title heading at the top. How do you do that? -- Dr DBW |  talk  02:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Found it Help:FAQ -- Dr DBW |  talk  03:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Have added  to MediaWiki:common.css, cleared cache of the page, and the page title is still there.  The correct classes are present in the source, so it should work, but it doesn't ;-(  Any suggestions on why / what I have done wrong? -- Dr DBW  |  talk  03:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)