Architecture meetings/RFC review 2014-02-14

13:00 UTC, February 14, at.

Requests for Comment to review
Three at most, so we can go in depth.


 * 1) TitleValue
 * 2) Deprecating inline styles (quick checkin)
 * 3) your RFC here

Meeting summary

 * manybubbles is "much happier" with latest patch for TitleValue
 * daniel will send email to solicit more reviews
 * manybubbles will comment on gerrit
 * daniel will work more on TitleValue in march
 * shall be a follow-up meeting (in march?) with Tim, Brion, etc. present, even if it's late evening Berlin time

Full log
13:06 I'm here too! 13:07 I though there was a bot that would help record 13:07 < DanielK_WMDE> there used to be...                                                          13:07 We might use wikimedia-meetbot channel 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> i don't see the bot there either 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> let's just stay here 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> so. 13:09 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: have you seen the version I pushed to gerrit yesterday? 13:09 yeah! I saw it. I'm much happier 13:10 -!- hashar [~sempitern@mediawiki/hashar] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> I'm not totally convinced that it's really the better design, but it's simpler for now, and can be refactored later 13:10 Anyway 13:10 DanielK_WMDE: that is the spirit 13:10 < DanielK_WMDE> next steps for me would be: get it to pass all tests, and get it merged. but for getting it merged, i'll need more feedback from more people, i think... 13:11 yeah. 13:11 I wanted anomie to give feedback because he was one of the grumblers 13:11 < DanielK_WMDE> also, i'll need to rebase the SpecialCategories refactor. Will try to get that and the fixes done today 13:11 thanks! aren't you traveling today? 13:12 I'll post some comments on gerrit as well. 13:12 I don't have a big list. 13:12 < DanielK_WMDE> yes. anomie, tim, brion, chad, roan, perhaps aaron...                        13:12 but was reviewing on mobile and didn't want to log in,etc 13:12 -!- YuviPanda [~yuvipanda@mediawiki/yuvipanda] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:13 < YuviPanda> 18 December? feels a bit dated 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> would be great if you could do this in the next hours, so i can reply. i want to get as much of this done today as possible 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: hm? 13:13 < DanielK_WMDE> hey yuvi ;)                                                                  13:13 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: /topic                                                             13:13 < YuviPanda> hi DanielK_WMDE :) 13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RDF review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review 13:14 Rdf? 13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: want to add your 2¢ to the TitleValue stuff? 13:14 -!- DanielK_WMDE changed the topic of #mediawiki-rfc to: RFC review | #wikimedia-meetbot | http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/RFC%20review 13:14 :)                                                                                  13:14 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: oh ffs ;) 13:15 < YuviPanda> DanielK_WMDE: nah, I'm just here to watch :) I haven't been writing any PHP for a long while now 13:15 < DanielK_WMDE> YuviPanda: probably not much to watch, manybubbles and aude seem happy, the grumblers arn't here :P 13:15 < YuviPanda> heh                                                                             13:15 < YuviPanda> wait is it now? thought it was later                                             13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> no, now.                                                                      13:16 Not sure about calling the one class "codec"                                         13:16 But I'm never good with picking names                                                13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: well, it formats/serializes and parses. what would you call it? A Parmatter? 13:16 Not sure                 13:16 < DanielK_WMDE> could also split the implementation again. 13:17 I'll go forth and comment on the patch 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> implementing parsing and formatting in the same class is convenient for consistency and because both task require the same knowledge 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators. 13:17 to me the codec name isn't a problem. 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> otoh, it's annoying if you want to use decorators. 13:17 to me the codec name isn't a problem. 13:17 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: yay :)                                                          13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> fyi, after today, i'll probably not work on TitleValue for 10 days (short vacation). Will pick up again after that. 13:18 It just sets precedence                                                              13:18 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: what does? combining the implementations?                              13:18 Would prefer things split more but recognize the concerns                            13:18 Yes                                                                                  13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> well, it was split more, i just backtracked a bit on that :) 13:19 < DanielK_WMDE> (look at the earlier patch sets) 13:19 Ok as first step though if we do second step 13:19 Then we are left with more legacy code to maintain for a while 13:20 Still might be ok if it makes folks happier 13:21 < DanielK_WMDE> I think having the implementations centralized will help with acceptance. If it becomes a problem, we can split it up easily 13:21 * aude2 observes now 13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: i'll send an email later, inviting more folks to review. I'll pick up work on this in march. 13:23 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: is there anything mroe to discuss? Any nitty gritty details or broad sweeping concepts we havn't covered?.... 13:23 aude2: I think you'll get people fighting you more on splitting the codec 13:23 heh 13:24 < DanielK_WMDE> manybubbles: can you think of an alternative to the term "codec"? 13:24 DanielK_WMDE: meh 13:24 Editor is standard in Java but it is a stupid standard 13:25 that is something worth bikeshedding in gerrit, I think 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess. 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> "editor" is utterly misleading. 13:25 yeah 13:25 it has history 13:25 like how "tar" has history 13:25 but that doesn't make it good at all 13:25 < DanielK_WMDE> hehe 13:26 -!- sumanah [~sumanah@mediawiki/sumanah] has joined #mediawiki-rfc 13:26 there we go                                                                   13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> hey sumanah! 13:26 Hi! 13:26 so we've talked for a half an hour and I'm happy with it                      13:26 < DanielK_WMDE> cool! 13:26 well, was happy with it when I reviewed it this morning 13:26 probably makes sense for followup meeting in march 13:27 At time that Tim can attend and more sf people 13:27 I'll see if I can shake anomie to review it                                   13:27 Even if it means 11pm for us                                                         13:27 bleh 13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: so, aude and manybubbles seem happy anough. there's a short list of people i'd like to have another look. will mail them later today. 13:27 hi there, quick question, can anyone email me the IRC log of today's meeting? 13:27 Sure I can post log 13:27 perfect 13:27 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sure. we couldn't figure out how to get meetbot in here. 13:28 brion was meant to attend today, I'm regretting he's not here 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> oh, is the date for the follow-up already set? I guess I missed that...      13:28 sounds like you got some progress made though? 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: when is it? 13:28 Not set 13:28 Just suggesting 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: a bit, there wasn't too much to discuss. no critics here :)         13:28 we're gonna have these RFC checkins/discussions to move RFCs along each week - we could set the first week of March? 13:28 < DanielK_WMDE> aude2: ah, ok                                                                 13:28 (the architects would be there, could potentially approve, veto, or ask for revise-and-resubmit) 13:29 Whatever works for Daniel Tim and brion                                              13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: sounds good, but is it ok to talk about TitleValue at that time again? 13:29 And nik                                                                              13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> actually - i think it makes sense to keep talking about an $RFC until it's done. 13:29 -!- helderwiki [~Helder@wikibooks/Helder-wiki] has joined #mediawiki-rfc                      13:29 None of us here are in position to approve 13:29 DanielK_WMDE: if none of the architects are in this meeting here right now, then this is just y'all working on the RFC, not one of the weekly RFC Review meetings 13:29 < DanielK_WMDE> 11pm is fine for me, depending on the day 13:29 Me too 13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: well, technically, mark is in the channel :P 13:30 DanielK_WMDE: did he talk? 13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> nope 13:30 * sumanah waits for aude's aude2's log 13:30 DanielK_WMDE: there you go                                                        13:30 < DanielK_WMDE> i guess he isn't too interested in TitleValue stuff 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: yea, "technically". 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway, i don't care as long as we make progress. 13:31 Shall post log when I come back to office 13:31 < DanielK_WMDE> but.. getting Tim *and* Brion in here at a time hwne I'm awake might be tricky... 13:31 I declare that this was an rfc work meeting, not an RFC review meeting of the type that has architects in it. anyway. DanielK_WMDE would you be ok actually talking with brion later today? 13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> though 11pm here might work 13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> sure, would be happy to! 13:32 ok, DanielK_WMDE, I will try to put you, manybubbles and brion in the same room at the same time 13:32 preferably #wikimedia-office which is where meetbot does work :)                  13:32 sumanah: thanks                                                                13:32 ah                                                                             13:32 < DanielK_WMDE> i'm here until at least 8pm my time. may not be reactive on irc, though. if all else fails, text my phone. 13:32 I wasn't sure where to go                                                      13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> sumanah: as opposed to #wikimedia-meetbot?... this is confusing :P            13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        13:33 < DanielK_WMDE> thanks, sumanah!                                                              13:34 it was in the wikitech-l email to go to #wikimedia-office but next time I will send a GCal invite 13:34 to the people I suspect will be most interested 13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> so, maybe this channel should be closed or redirected? 13:34 < DanielK_WMDE> or #wikimedia-office should at least be in the topic? 13:36 DanielK_WMDE: if you know how to close and redirect an IRC channel please be my guest 13:36 I had to search around to find you folks :p 13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> closing is easy: make everybody leave :)                                     13:37 < DanielK_WMDE> there's no ChanServ in here, so it's not kept alive                           13:37 DanielK_WMDE: you actually serious?                                                13:37 they'll just come back                                                             13:38 because evidently in the autumn this is where you all got used to having your meetings 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> well yea. redirecting would be the only way, i'd ask in #freenode about that. 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> clsoign is easy, but anyone joining a channel will just re-create it. there's no such thing as a closed channel. 13:38 < DanielK_WMDE> anyway                                                                        13:39 < DanielK_WMDE> or we could just actually have rfc meetings here. i don't really care, it should just be documented and consistent :)