Project talk:PD help/Copying

Template PD Help Page not exporting
While I have successfully imported everything in the past I am not having issues importing the PD Help contents. Only about half of the pages import, and never include the PD Help Page template. If I export pages one at a time it sometimes works, but never includes the template.

Perhaps it has something to do with exporting from 1.16 and importing into 1.15? 130.76.96.23 19:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Choosing the example image
Hm, why should Image:Wiki.png being copied? There's another default image for new installations, or not? -- :Bdk: 19:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's used as the example in Help:Images. I think the example image from Help:Templates and the screenshots should also be copied, and possibly the one from the meta template. (The bot doesn't copy that one, since it rewrites that template to avoid dependence on the interwiki table). -Steve Sanbeg 21:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point :-) I didn't think of that use. I've now substituted it with the new Example.jpg, which is, in addition, useful to have when you use the image button in the edit toolbar. Hope this is ok. -- :Bdk: 10:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable, and more in line with the license for this project. I just made the same change to template:thankyou.  Unfortunately, that doesn't have the PD header, but it is a pretty trivial template. -Steve Sanbeg 17:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't the images included in templates be added too? Like the one in the admin tips and languages template? 82.11.41.163 20:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The languages template isn't useful offsite, so that should just be blanked on the remote wiki. The admin tip/meta imags may be useful, though.  The list may be tricky to keep up to date; it may require someone who follows that process to fix it for the current version, or a bot to maintain the list. -Steve Sanbeg 22:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it is because I have "ugly" links or if it was due to the export and importation process, but I have to edit each image link to fit in proper underscore characters. I'm having to go around all of my imported help pages fixing image links. -- Rezanow 05:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Templates not Exporting
This is great. Been looking for a comprehensive HOWTO to get some help files. However I noticed that some of the files mentioned did not export. For example Template:Click did not work. If you go to Special:Export and only add Template:Click to the list you'll get an XML with the header but no content.

       MediaWiki http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki MediaWiki 1.10alpha first-letter Media ...           Extension talk

Nothing about Template:Click. Any ideas?
 * -- Suki 01:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

works for me -- Duesentrieb ⇌ 02:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is a direct link: Special:Export/Template:Click try that and see if the Template:Click code shows up. -- Suki 05:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The template is protected. It seems, oddly, that non-sysops cannot export protected pages. Special:Export/Template:Languages does not work either.--Patrick 08:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I found there was an empty page for Template:Click in my new wiki. I was able to edit this page. I simply pasted in the source code for this template from the MediaWiki site and all was well. Even though the page was protected, I could still see the source. At first I was confused because there is a large vertical whitespace between the operative part of the page, which shows nothing, and the page documentation, which is in a following noinclude element, and which was not visible in the edit box because of the vertical space.

--AJim 17:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Package
It might be a good idea to automatically export all the files and provide versions with all the PD templates removed. A php script could then be created which, when run from the base of a MediaWiki installation will automatically import all pages and images. I am aware if Special:Import, but AFAIK it does not support images. Lcarsdata (Talk) 15:52, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * See Automating help page export. --HappyDog 13:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Copying images
Here is what I learned about copying the images.

First, there are not too many images, most help pages do not have them. Navigation, Templates, Recent Changes are some that did.

The procedure that worked best for me was:
 * go to the MediaWiki help page.
 * right click on the image.
 * choose Open Link in new Tab
 * because the image on the help page may be a thumbnail, not the original
 * change to the image page on the new tab that you opened
 * right click on this image
 * choose Save Image As...
 * save this image without changing its name
 * I used the same folder I used for the page exports
 * on the new wiki choose Upload file in the toolbox.
 * browse to the folder where the image was saved, select the image
 * cut and paste the image name, without the url, from the Source filename line to the Destination filename line
 * add a note such as help navigation image for later reference
 * press the Upload file button
 * if you get a warning saying the page already exists, choose the Ignore warning and save file anyway. option.

--AJim 17:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki links
There is more to do to move the help. One obvious thing is interwiki links that are still showing red. The Help:Interwiki linking page explains what needs to be done, updating a database table, interwiki, but I have not tried it yet.

--AJim 18:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Getting only XML inline in my browser.
I would expect that the export tool supplied a xml-file. However, I onyl receive a document equal a RSS feed document inline. Not a file to download. I am using Firefox 2.0 and Windows XP.

Please tell me wherever the export tool provide a file, or just a inline document I am expected to copy and make a file locally on my computer. Preferable a guide with expected resaults in each step.

Go-Xian

When page already exists?
Can someone tell me what happens when the page already exists when you are importing a page? Does it just save over the top of it? And the previous content is still there in the history? --Dr DBW 02:25, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

My Poor Explanation
I just attempted this. The simple answer is that your former changes (the history) stays intact so you don't loose the former history. However it is much more complicated then that because an import will merge the exported history into the articles current history. So it doesn't necessarily mean that the imported content will be the latest change (or it could depending). I'll attempt to explain.

I will use two Wiki services. I will call them docwiki and mywiki. docwiki will hold the document in question. mywiki will be the wiki I wish to import to.

Now if you import the docwiki version into the mywiki version you will merge the revisions as:
 * 1) Rev C (on Sunday, by user Billy)
 * 2) Rev A (on Monday, by user Bob)
 * 3) Rev B (on Wednesday, by user Kim)
 * 4) Rev D (on Friday, by user Katie)

So when you view the document on mywiki you won't see the documents that were imported because Rev D was the latest. What you will see in the history is a change from Rev B to Rev D. If you wanted Rev B to be the latest you will have to rollback the Rev D change.

So check your history! And be aware of the times of the revisions that you export.


 * -- Suki 16:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that is good and clears things up a bit. --Dr DBW 23:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes - the above is correct. The revisions are imported and merged in date order, so importing a page from Wiki A to Wiki B will give exactly the same result as importing from Wiki B to Wiki A. The only thing to look out for is that when you are importing revisions, the software will skip any revisions that "already exist". As far as the software is concerned, "already exists" means any revision with the same date. So if Wiki A has an edit at 16:03:02 on 14th May 2007, and Wiki B has a revision on exactly the same date then that revision will be skipped on import! This is so that a second subsequent import of the same page does not create duplicate entries in the history, but on rare occasions can result in revisions being lost! This also applies to deleted revisions, so if you have a revision that was deleted but shares a timestamp with one of the revisions due for import, it will also be skipped! --HappyDog 01:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * To be clear, with "same date" I think you mean exactly the same second.--Patrick 07:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

mirrorhelp.py
can someone give a step by step explanaition of how to use mirrorhelp.py?


 * As long as you have the pywikipedia framework set up, it should be simple; you can check pywikipedia for instructions on that. Basically,


 * download Pywikipedia
 * download mirrorhelp.py into the same directory
 * configure your wiki into pywikipedia, by adding a new file in families/ and referencing it from user-config.py
 * create a bot account on your wiki, so you don't see all the mirroring in recent changes.
 * run the script on your wiki, either by configuring pywikipedia to use it by default, or using the normal -family & -lang options.

Hope that helps. The pywikipedia docs should give more detail, the script interface is pretty simple. -Steve Sanbeg 16:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

SVG images a problem...
quick note... SVG images arn't permitted on some installs of MediaWiki by default. Converting these to PGN might be a better option. 70.103.216.66 02:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank goodness you mentioned this, at least now I don't have to turn my wiki install insideout. I really do hope someone finds a solution and updates this page. --82.93.172.114 15:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, the two SVG images listed on the page (Image:PD-icon.svg and Image:Tools.svg) are both images that are being automatically pulled from Wikimedia Commons. Therefore, including them in the export command is pointless, because there is no information here on MediaWiki that can be exported.  Image:Bulbgraph.png suffers from the same problem.  However, most exporters probably won't notice this fine detail, and would be confused if those images were excluded from the export list.  So I haven't altered the File List on the article. --Nephele 21:05, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Needed Template Missing
I have noticed a template, Template:Note, was missing. Please add this so that future users won't have a problem. 68.190.33.139 03:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Though you could have done that yourself... it's a wiki :) -- Duesentrieb ⇌ 13:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

File list
why is "file list" in the article? --woytecr 17:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Because this page gives instructions about how to copy all of the help pages onto a different wiki. That's the list of pages you'll be needing to copy. -- Harry Wood 13:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reply!--woytecr 12:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * How about having the file list in alphabetical order? It's a file list, not a TOC.
 * Is Help:Signatures missing from the list? Renate 13:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Move to Project:PD help/Copying
This page isn't really part of the help pages itself. Calling it "Help:Copying" and releasing it PD is causing some confusion. It should be moved to somewhere related to Project:PD help page, outside of the Help namespace.

We already have Project:PD help/export but that is kind of a brainstorming page. Maybe Project:PD help/Copying ?

-- Harry Wood 13:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree totally in principle. Choice of name I'm not too fussed about personally. --Kingboyk 13:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this suggestion.

This page describes the steps to download or seed a Help System for use on other Wikis. I propose the name Project:PD help/Download and would edit the PD Help Page template accordingly. --- alan_gerhard 12:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Template:Languages and a loop error
I have seen on other wikis, and have experienced on my own wiki, an infinite recursive loop in Template:Languages ("Template loop detected"). This happens after I freshly install mediawiki, the ParserFunctions extension, and export/import the Help category as described here. I tried this using many combinations of mediawiki and parserfunctions versions, using either Fedora RPM and manual installation. I don't know why it is looping or why the loop is not handled gracefully. Instead of debugging this loop error, I'd like to not use the Languages template, but the copyright states that I must release changes to the Help pages back into the public domain. Even if I became comfortable with that commitment, I still have to edit all the pages to remove the template reference, which is a headache! Is there a way to acquire the Help pages for a single language such that the language template is not used, and does not explode my wiki?

Okay the loop error was caused by the XML angle brackets getting lost somewhere between export from here and import at my local site. The includeonly and noinclude tags ceased being tags, and the page parser understandably got confused. But, the site is on an intranet, and I have no need to support i18n.


 * I recently upgraded from 1.13 to 1.15. I had imported the help files back in February and didn't notice problems.  While finding and fixing broken links (using the BrokenLinks extension), I found that I was having the same problem with missing angle brackets and broken templates (lots of loop errors).  I guess I'll try reloading the help files, templates, and images to see if that fixes it.  Mxmsj 01:58, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like you also got bit by bug 16554 209.87.205.103 17:26, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Problems with Tables
I've exported and imported, and all's well there. But the tables are not appearing correctly, to the point of being not very usable (no borders, alignments and spacing are way off, etc.). It seems the tables are not in the standard wiki syntax, and there are some dependencies to get them to look right that I don't have installed. Do I need to install an extension? Enable HTML in some way? Change my css file to include the appropriate class, or something?

It seems that the "wikitable" CSS class is the culprit. This class is not in the Monobook main.css in my installation. It seems to be required for the tables to look right after exporting/importing. --Paul Morris Oct 3, 2009

Missing stuff for MW 1.16
Just tried following the manual instructions, and found a bunch of images, templates, and pages missing. This was done by looking at my wiki's Special:WantedTemplates page. Some interwiki links back to mediawiki are also broken.


 * Some templates are using subpages. Subpages must be enabled on the Templates namespace of the target wiki for this to work.
 * As mentioned before by AJim, perhaps interwiki links setup should be mentioned on the page?

Here's a list so far:

Help:Namespace

Template:Categories_categories Template:Documentation/core Template:Documentation/core2 Template:Documentation/doc Template:Documentation_subpage Template:Fmbox Template:Help/En_pagename Template:Mbox‎ Template:Mbox/core‎ Template:Mbox/core/doc‎ Template:Mbox/doc‎ Template:Para Template:Purge Template:Tim Template:Tiw Template:Tl‎ Template:Tlx‎ Template:Xpd‎

Image:MediaWiki_Skin_Vector.png Image:PD-icon.svg Image:Heckert_GNU_white.svg Image:Wiki.png Image:Attention_niels_epting.svg Image:Arr_r.png File:Template-info.svg File:Ambox notice.png File:Button sig.png File:Ambox protection.png File:Unbalanced scales.svg File:Ambox speedy deletion.png File:Wikitext.svg File:Edit-clear.svg File:Emblem-question-yellow.svg File:Gnome globe current event.svg File:Imbox notice.png File:Merge-arrows.svg File:Ambox content.png File:Nuvola apps bookcase.svg File:Ambox deletion.png File:Replacement filing cabinet.svg File:Ambox move.png File:Shuttle.svg

There are also more templates I now have listed on my Special:WantedTemplates page, but no pages on mediawiki exist:


 * Template:PD_Help_Page/Deleting_a_page
 * Template:PD_Help_Page/Help/Categories
 * Template:PD_Help_Page/Help/Category
 * Template:PD_Help_Page/Help/If_en
 * Template:Help/Categories/categories

Limits on Export/Import Functionality

 * possible problem noted on 'Missing files' section, saw this annotation 'it seem to break the PD help guidelines' so thought it better to give a heads up on that specific file. Richard416282 19:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

PD Help project status
Is this Help project still a viable thing? Because quite apart from the painful lack of image support in the export/import process, the help pages themselves have a lot of problems:


 * 1) Lists inexplicably points to Help:Lists over on Meta
 * 2) Pages imported into other wikis end up awash in red ink from all the links to pages outside the Help section on Mediawiki, such as links to the FAQ and sundry Manual pages.
 * 3) In addition, there are interwiki links, but their prefixes aren't among the set built into default Medaiwiki installations. I've spotted W and M, and there may be others. Given that adding new interwiki prefixes involves grovelling around on a SQL command line, a short list and howto look necessary
 * 4) Importing the image pages pulls in the license templates, but those use images that, in turn, have their own pages and image files.
 * 5) * An aside: there really should be a project to create a PD set of boilerplate file licenses, too.
 * 6) The final pages are looking out of date compared to Wikipedia's current help pages

Who's still involved in this project?