Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Archive4

Move other projects to the sticky header
Hi. I don't know if this is planned, however I leave the following suggestion which seems to me important. With the new sticky header which will soon be implemented —which I encourage— it would be very useful to move “other projects” (distinctly and Wikidata included) next to languages, for several reasons:
 * over all, easier and more comfortable access;
 * consistency with the languages tab, since it was moved;
 * better recommend other projects to readers;
 * “frame” templates, such as, create duplicate links, are heavy-looking, and often shift the layout: such a new tab would allow to improve the global rendering by making these templates useless.

Thank you in advance for looking into this issue. Best regards — Baidax (talk) 17:35, 4 January 2022 (UTC) (edited)


 * Hello @Baidax. We're planning to move it to the top, yes. Soon, we'll set up banners inviting volunteers to share opinions on a prototype. Add this page to the watchlist and check it in ~2 weeks. The link should be blue by then. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:29, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * : Thank you for your answer. Awesome, I look forward to seeing it. I also draw your attention to adding Wikidata to this projects list (which is not the case for all language versions). Good luck with the work! — Baidax 💬 16:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Sticky Header won't switch between language versions
I've just noticed that you've activated the new sticky header in my account on German Wikipedia. Thanks! I think I like it. However, I'm afraid the language selector won't work. I cannot switch between languages in the sticky header. The standard language selector at the top of the page, however, works nicely. I'm running Firefox 95.0.2 on macOS 10.13.6. Thanks and Best regards, Aschmidt (talk) 20:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I think this is T297579 (which will hide the language button in the sticky header). If you want to use languages in the sticky header you will need to go to Special:Preferences and select "Use a compact language list, with languages relevant to you." in Appearance/Languages. Jdlrobson (talk) 23:56, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, @Jdlrobson, this is probably true. I'm afraid, I'd rather not use the compact language list because, as an author, I prefer to have all languages displayed in the list. I'd like to see at a glance how many language versions of Wikipedia find a lemma notable. So, I'd prefer if you please could try and solve this issue. Apart from this, I like the sticky header. :) Kind regards, Aschmidt (talk) 00:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If you want to see just the amount, I think the compact language links feature is actually good for you: if you enable it, the button on voy:de:Berlin says 21 Sprachen (using old Vector, it lists the 9 most relevant ones—it’s always 9, as long as there are at least 9 languages—, and the button says 12 weitere ). So you don’t even need to count the links, the software does it for you. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 12:42, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, @Tacsipacsi, for your hints. I'm afraid, I would prefer to be given the direct links to all other language versions, too. I keep the so-called compact language list switched off. Best regards, Aschmidt (talk) 16:42, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

How to disable sticky headers?
Sticky headers really annoy me. There is absolutely no benefit, but just wasting useful space. How can I disable them without switching back to legacy Vector? --Bombenleger (talk) 18:16, 6 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I also immediately noticed it and came to comment my disdain for sticky headers. My browser already permanently reserves like 3% of my entire screen, now Wikipedia will double that. I don’t need a instant access to any of the buttons in the the header. I search Wikipedia through google, not Wikipedia and that search button is already part of the 3% screen space my browser reserves. I don’t need to be permanently reminded what article I am reading. Most people only speak one language, they do not need to have access to the language switcher 100% of the time. I only check my watchlist once, I do not need access to it 100% of the time, that logic applies to the other buttons in the top right.
 * Sticky headers are a diet version of toolbar hell from the Internet Explorer days. I really really don’t understand why people keep doing them. Akeosnhaoe (talk) 11:12, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @Bombenleger, @Akeosnhaoe, you need to add  to your global.css. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you @SGrabarczuk (WMF), I love it! Bombenleger (talk) 17:27, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Sticky header zero language switcher
Hi. Is this really a good idea to create a button "0 languages" that opens a huge empty popup on click on pages with no interwikis? IKhitron (talk) 16:15, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * For that matter, I don't see why the language switcher should be prioritized for the sticky header at all. If a user has navigated to a page and read through it enough to scroll, chances are they're at the language they want to be at. They don't need a prominent button to switch languages from that point. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 19:55, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Courtesy ping and   &#123;{u&#124;  Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 19:58, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I think the feature should be scrapped. Apparently it leads to drop of uses of Wikipedias in secondary languages (which ones they are vary by country/region, probably not important for the US). --Jura1 (talk) 20:55, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The 0 languages is a bug we identified early in testing. That's not meant to show and will be fixed in this week's deploy. Jdlrobson (talk) 03:02, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. IKhitron (talk) 00:20, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

A problem of cache or someone else?
(from fr.wiki 1 and 2)

Hi, reporting my personal experience, in differents pilot wikis (fr.wikipedia, fr.wikiquote, vec.wikipedia) I was not able to see the sticky header for a while, I need to change accounts, log in and log out 3 times and then refresh the page a lot of times before to see it appear and work. 5th and 6th January I was not still able to see it. Now I can. Actually, there are users on Wikipedia in French (and Wikiquote in French for an individual tester) that can't see the sticky header, Malik2Mars, Paul.schrepfer and Daehan (feedback of 9th January). One of them (Daehan) was able to use the sticky header active when deployed (the 5th January), now he can't, this is strange. There is a reason for that? Thank you for answering.--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 10:25, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * There's an A/B test running, so 50% of user accounts will not see the sticky header. When that test finishes run you should be able to use it. There was a period while we set up the A/B test where you may have seen it if you do not see it now. Jdlrobson (talk) 02:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Sticky header: issue with fixed-width space for page title
The space dedicated for page title is always 500px wide. This number is fixed and therefore long titles will be cut even on wide screens which may look awkward. On the other hand, when the screen is really narrow, the title stays 500px wide and pushes buttons out of the screen. Here is an example. Msz2001 (talk) 15:32, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Tracked in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T298885 Jdlrobson (talk) 02:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Sticky header: language switch button wraps on narrow screens
When using a narrow screen, the language switcher wraps and renders as two lines of text. This looks ugly and IMO should be changed so that the content is always displayed as a single line. Example is here (second image). Msz2001 (talk) 15:35, 10 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Jdlrobson (talk) 02:59, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Talk page and page history
Any reason why sticky is only available on the main page and not on a talk and history pages?

Seems a bit weird to me. Both talk and history have links on the sticky header, but when you navigate to them then the sticky is gone. Especially when I visit someone's talk page I would like to be able to navigate to his/her user page. And talk pages can be quite long. Also if I get an answer here I will get a link to the bottom of this page. And I should see a sticky to be able to open the main page in a new tab or view other notifications. Nux (talk) 22:30, 11 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey @Nux!
 * Talk pages - that's not entirely up to us. The Editing team is responsible for talk pages - see their current project Talk pages project/Usability. They will make the decision whether and how the sticky header will be implemented on talk pages. We're working closely with them on that issue.
 * History pages (also, special pages) - at first, we decided not to enable the sticky header there because it doesn't offer that much functionality (there's no option to edit that page, for example). We'll consider doing it, though. There will be a dedicated Phabricator task.
 * SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC

regarding Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Features/Limiting content width and transclusion
If recent changes are transcluded this change the page width. Although I appreciate the width-limit and I like the special treatment of special pages, this seems to be not really consistent. I don't really know what could be done about this. Could there be a switch within the transclusion to specify which behaviour is wanted? Though the programming-effort for this will be extremely high, I suppose, because transclusion is effected and not the mere interface. I don't know. Probably it's best to keep it as it is, because it's not a bug, but a (visual) inconvinience? Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 19:11, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Addition: It looked like it when I hit "show preview" but it's shown correctly after publishing the page. At least for now. Maybe the effect is connected to: T270802? If I notice anything else, I'll post more info. Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 23:07, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * +1: Same happens, when transcluding . Slowly it seems to me being a bug? Way to reproduce: edit a page, transclude a special page, show preview. Tested with prefixindex and recent changes. Firefox 96 (64-Bit), no gadgets and stuff. At least it seems not critical. Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 23:16, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Side panel on Wikidata item pages is forced to bottom of page
Hello, not sure exactly what the state of deployment is for this (i.e. if all latest changes are deployed everywhere), but was trying it out on Wikidata (where I primarily edit) and the  classed as   on item pages (which houses all the sitelinks) is pushed down to the bottom of the page (see Q1 for example). In legacy vector this element is at the top of the page on the right hand side, which seems more appropriate given the importance of the information (as a means to access the subject on other wikis) and the clearer separation from the data statements. I don't think it necessarily has to live in the same place, just that the current placement seems incorrect, especially considering how much scrolling is needed to reach it on some item pages. --SilentSpike (talk) 12:25, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, the infamous limited content width. On my 1366×768 screen (minus a few pixels of vertical taskbar), sitelinks at the bottom with legacy Vector as well. The limited content width of new Vector forces this layout even on gigantic iMacs. (By the way, you can see the very latest version on beta cluster, every change that’s been merged immediately appears there.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the bug report. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:53, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Some Feedback on Improved Desktop View
Thanks for working on this project. I just recently switched to the Improved Desktop View and I'm loving it! It provides a cleaner and much better reading experience for me.

Just noted one issue which I wanted to mention here. I have the clock gadget enabled. When I open the "User menu" when the page isn't scrolled at all, the clock gadget appears to be part hidden. When the "User menu" is opened after the pages is scrolled a bit, the clock appears to be fully visible. One could actually argue the clock gadget shouldn't even be hidden under the "User menu" as it kind of makes the gadget less useful but I'll not get into that now. :-)

Thanks again for working on this! -- Kaartic [talk] 08:53, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Fixed on wiki. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Bug: Sticky Header is printed
When printing out a page the sticky header is included. Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 09:54, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * THanks for the report! Jdlrobson (talk) 18:12, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Not at all suitable for Wikisource users
As other people have said, the editing box is too narrow. This is especially bad for Wikisource users, as most of the work happens in the Page: namespace. Probably no one ever thought of trying it out there. Just [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:RandomPage/Page open a random page] on en.ws and try to edit. As you can see, half of the page is occupied by the scanned image, and the other half by the editing box. As the scan is often large and hard to read, we need it to be as big as possible. And we need the editing box to be as big as possible. You are wasting a lot of screen space and making things difficult for Wikisource users. I respect your work, but it's very clear to me that no one ever thinks about sister projects when planning these changes. Every decision seems to be based exclusively on what Wikipedia needs, the other projects are never taken into account. Candalua (talk) 08:33, 28 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I strongly support Candalua's claim. Proofreading has specific requirements, and it needs a specific. stable editing interface and specific tools and shortcuts. Just an example: Find & Replace tool doesn't run, from years, into nsPage environment;  it.wikisource built an its own powerful tool, but such "divergent evolution" of projects is IMHO a bad thing.  Alex brollo (talk) 10:56, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem here is the use of different namespaces. We've been testing on English Wikisource which does not have the fixed width you pointed out. It seems English Wikisource uses namespace 104 and Italian uses 108. We'll look into fixing this. Thanks for the report. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:34, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello @Candalua and @Alex brollo. Thanks for contacting us.
 * We know how our changes look on Wikisource. For example, I have them enabled on all wikis (as a global preference). We know that you need the width to be long while editing the Page namespace. I guess there are two reasons why we haven't adjusted our changes to your specific needs:
 * No Wikisource has been one of our pilot wikis
 * To set up the long width exception, we need to know the number of the namespace. On different Wikisource wikis, the Page namespaces have different numbers. :O This is most surprising and irregular. We have to go through all Wikisource wikis and find out where the local Page namespace is.
 * Regarding #1, we are open to change that! If your community is agrees to join the pilot wikis, we'll work together more closely, and identify more bugs. We know that we will have to work with Wikisource wikis before we consider our changes as ready, anyway. What do you think? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF): on it.wikisource suggests to have a pilot wikisource, like fr.source (the leader wikisource) or a very little wikisource, but with experienced contributors like vec.source with @Candalua or  nap.source with @Ruthven. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Please remove the bar at the top, which appears when I scroll down
Please, I hated it. Or at least allow me in the preferencer to deactivate it. I don't want to see that. Please remove. Bageense (talk) 19:54, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * You mean the sticky header? Have you tried switching back to Legacy Vector? NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I haven't, because I don't want to use the lecacy Vector, I want to use the new one, but without the header. Please remove that, or at least allow me to deactivate it. Please remove that. Bageense (talk) 20:19, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't find that checkbox anywhere in Preferences so we'll probably have to wait for the team's reply. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh (talk) 20:21, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello @Bageense, you will find the code that removes the bar in the How to disable sticky headers? section. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 08:03, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Sorry if I seemed a bit exasperated, hah. By the way, I love the new skin, unlike literally everyone I interact with in the Portuguese Wikipedia. The skin is much more modern-looking, cleaner, the articles are easier to read. There are way less visual distractions, such as lines and borders. It's awesome. Cheers! Bageense (talk) 06:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Easier to read when you have to scroll more times? -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 12:41, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, @NGC 54, even if one has to scroll more, one may be focused more on a specific part of content, like a sentence, a paragraph, etc. Have you maybe read this explanation? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:21, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that is not impossible to let the reader adjust the width. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 11:05, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @NGC 54, our goal is to provide the best experience as default. Tech-savvy users are always able to change their CSS and create something dramatically different from the default version. This won't change this time either. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:48, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * But the best experience is not with limited width. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, the text being the most important element. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 23:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Live preview broken on 2010 wikitext editor
(direct link)

I'm using English Wikipedia but around 1–2 hours ago, I started experiencing some rendering issues when clicking the Show preview button when in 2010 source editor as seen in the attached video above. My global preferences is currently set to Vector (2022) theme, previously set to Vector theme with legacy option unticked, I believe Vector (2022) is the new name since I didn't change anything in my preferences.

So I rechecked on Korean Wikipedia (which was stated as one of the few Wikipedia where the changes are turned on by default) and the same issues occurred.

Please rollback the changes as this isn't ready yet, not sure why it's even push onto production server. — Paper9oll 07:49, 3 February 2022 (UTC)


 * This should be fixed now. The fix here however led to further Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements. Jdlrobson (talk) 23:25, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Enable sticky header
Sorry for the stupid question, but in which wiki is the sticky header enabled? ValterVB (talk) 08:53, 3 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Not a stupid question at all. Thanks for asking it.
 * It should be enabled on all wikis. You must however be logged in, and using a modern browser with a display resolution of 1000px or greater.
 * Let me know if you are having any trouble seeing it, if so we'll work out why not. Jdlrobson (talk) 23:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm on it.wiki, but is the same also in fr.wiki or en.wiki, and I use Vector (2022). I can see the new desktop lay out, but the header isn't fix. I use last version of Edge Browser and display resolution is 1920x1080. ValterVB (talk) 08:25, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Strange, now it work.... ValterVB (talk) 08:58, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Is normal that don't work in all namespace? ValterVB (talk) 09:22, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Glad it's working! See Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements :-). Hope that helps! Jdlrobson (talk) 05:23, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Text in certain dropdown menus displays over sticky header drop down menu, and time is misaligned
Hello! So I started using the 2022 Vector skin yesterday and I noticed that if I'm scrolled all the way to the top and click on the dropdown menu on the sticky header, some of the text for other dropdown menus (such as the page dropdown menu) displays over the sticky header. Also, within the dropdown menu, the time is cut off, and therefor not completely displayed. Blaze Wolf (talk) 12:04, 3 February 2022 (UTC)


 * For the time gadget, I assume you are using the UTC live clock gadget, in which case you should discuss it on MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-UTCLiveClock.js. On MediaWiki.org and eu.wikipedia.org it has been modified to appear outside the user dropdown but Wikimedia Foundation doesn't make decisions about how gadgets should behave. Right now the gadget is appending itself to this menu. I'm not sure if that's a bug or intended.
 * Thanks for flagging the issue with the more menu, I've notified the gadget developers: https://github.com/wikimedia-gadgets/MoreMenu/issues/24 Jdlrobson (talk) 23:18, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Broken gadgets
Both Twinkle and the short description helper gadget seem to have broken today on New Vector. All the Twinkle options (Warn, Wel, etc.) are displaying in a bulleted list rather than collapsed in a menu, and the short description helper is not appearing where it normally would below the title. Are these known issues, and can they be expected to be resolved shortly? &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 21:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)


 * For me, Twinkle is not displaying in its own dedicated dropdown menu (TW) but consolidated into the standard More menu on Vector 2022 but styling are retained. When loading/refreshing, I can see the space reserved for the TW dropdown menu to the right of More menu but once done loading/refreshing, the reserved space just disappear with the entire  moving right which is the default CSS behavior since TW is not found in the source after loading/refreshing but was there when loading/refreshing. Short description helper gadget is completely broken for me, it doesn't display at all on Vector 2022. Paper9oll 01:29, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Please direct gadget developers to T300987 which has instructions on how to address any problems they are seeing. I believe Twinkle has already been fixed. Jdlrobson (talk) 23:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Coordinates
Woah. Another big change that seems to have been rolled out yesterday is that coordinates that used to be in the upper right seem to have been pushed down in infoboxes, producing some horrible-looking results. See e.g. w:Georgetown University, where it produces the same thing twice and pushes the infobox wider than it should be because there's no line breaking.

I've never heard a compelling case for why language switching is so important that it needs to commandeer the corner there. But when it disrupts existing articles by creating things like this, that creates work for the community to fix that I don't think folks will be happy about. Does anyone know what specific change caused this, and whether it will be fixed before wider rollout? &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:57, 4 February 2022 (UTC)


 * This is a longstanding issue, that's been documented for some time and is waiting on changes by template admins on English Wikipedia. These were previously overlapping text (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F34441718), so this seems like an improvement to me :) Coordinates are rendered by wikitext templates NOT MediaWiki code.
 * This conversation is currently happening here: w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) Jdlrobson (talk) 23:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This conversation is currently happening here: w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) Jdlrobson (talk) 23:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Language switching - speed, suggesion
The language switching location is great, I think you can put a button in the sidebar that jumps and highlights the new placement. But problem is now I have to click twice to change to a suggested language and suggesions don't work in no JS mode. I think it could atleast suggest my browser language in no-JS mode. The suggesions aren't good too. For example visiting the Lata Mangeskar page, I have my browser language set in Bangla and connecting from a Bangla region, yet the suggesion doesn't show that option(with js on). Greatder (talk) 15:11, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you @Greatder for this comment.
 * Regarding a button in the sidebar, can you see the text এই উইকিতে, ভাষার লিঙ্কগুলি পাতার উপরের দিকে নিবন্ধের শিরোনামের পাশে রয়েছে। উপরে চলুন। at the bottom of the sidebar, where language links used to be?
 * Regarding the speed and suggestion, our team "only" displaced the list of language links to the top of the page. We only did the interface part. Other aspects, like those two, may be up to the Wikimedia Language engineering team. Uzoma knows more about that team's activities.
 * SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:45, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

1.Yup! That's a welcome change. 2. Hey, will you be able to check the language suggestion part? Greatder (talk) 08:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you Greatder, for pointing this out, I will notify the Language engineering team. UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 11:00, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello Greatder,
 * About the language switching speed, There are plans to work on the language selector to use the Vue modern technology and it should improve it.
 * This page describes the different criteria used for selecting languages. Previous selections are the top criteria, so those may make the results provided to be different from user to user.
 * I hope the above answers your questions. UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 19:22, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

User menu and language switcher is not working in some condition.
Hello, I have a feedback regarding new vector user experience. There are a user reported on WP:HELPDESK (at Thai wikpedia) that they cannot toggle on "user menu" and "This article in other language" button when disabled JavaScript, I myself don't know why too and when tested myself it just work. They use  if it is needed. If you wanting more context or want translation, or have a ticket related, feel free to ping me here. Thanks!

See full feedback on: w:th:special:permalink/9910984 Patsagorn Y. (Talk) 07:51, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * We'll reply on Thai Wikipedia. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:05, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Default image thumb size?
@SGrabarczuk (WMF), at this discussion back in 2020 about increasing the default image thumb size, you mentioned that you'd bring it up with the Desktop Improvements team. I'm considering resurrecting that discussion, so I was wondering if you recall how that discussion went, or if you have any more general thoughts about the possibility of larger default images?

Looking at it, one obstacle seems to be the 0.1 megapixel limit for fair use images. I'd be interested to hear from someone at WMF Legal about whether that limit has a legal basis or was just chosen arbitrarily at some point; do you know who I could ping to ask about that? &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:30, 8 February 2022 (UTC)


 * It's been some time since you added this question @Sdkb, and we still don't have a good answer YET, so there's an initial one:
 * since 2019, we've been only working on changes that are on the list of Desktop Improvements. We are only working on the interface. Image thumb... doesn't turn out to be "just interface". Its default size is in the same category as the charts, maps, a-/f-/o-/tmboxes, infoboxes, navboxes, and other templates thing.
 * We're figuring out which team should be responsible for this area. I know this may look bureaucratic but it's about who is committed to be familiar with the related code and committed to make decisions about its development.
 * Also, what Whatamidoing wrote back then is still accurate - the Technology folks are going to have a word in that discussion. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF), thanks for the update! Yeah, I think there are a lot of things that don't fit neatly into a particular WMF team's purview, and it's often hard to figure out where to send them. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 02:08, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

La nueva interfaz es muy incomoda de usar.
No fue hace unos días en la que entre a Media-Wiki y me encontré con una interfaz bastante rara y incomoda, por el hecho de que parece otro sitio web. Tornitiu (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Hola, @Tornitiu. Me alegra que hayas encontrado esta página de discusión. Sí, este sitio web se ve diferente porque nuestros equipos están extendiendo la nueva interfaz a más y más sitios web de Wikimedia. ¿Te gustaría compartir más pensamientos? (I'm glad that you have found this talk page. Yes, this website looks different because our teams is extending the new interface to more and more Wikimedia websites. Would you like to share more thoughts?) SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:57, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

How do I go back to full width?
Useskinversion=1 stopped working. 46.188.156.161 06:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @46.188.156.161, thanks for your question! We have made some technical changes due to which the new and old versions of the Vector skin are now separate skins.  The new url parameters are as follows:
 * - Legacy version of the Vector skin (2010): ?useskin=vector
 * - New version of the Vector skin (2022): ?useskin=vector-22
 * OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 12:34, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you 46.188.181.249 18:33, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Custom TOCs, TOCright and other templates that change the position of/remove the TOC
Copied from Topic:Wqeyb0m05zkmeemb

Well, I have a few questions:

SuperDragonXD (talk) 02:45, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you still hide the TOC (using  and similar)?
 * How about templates that change the position of the TOC (like tocright and similar)? Will they still work?
 * Can you undock the TOC from the sidebar?
 * Can custom TOCs be repositioned to the sidebar?
 * What will happen when you "emulate" a TOC, like a custom version that uses the TOCs classes ?


 * Hi SuperDragonXD, we're working on details and soon I'll give answers. Basically, we know what settings exist now, perhaps we'll create new magic words, and definitely we'll keep/provide some configuration options. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Regarding NOTOC, that will continue to work, however the other magic words e.g. tocright will have no effect.
 * Regarding undocking the TOC from the sidebar, that seems unlikely from a technical point of view, as that would add a lot of caching concerns. Same goes for custom TOCS. Custom TOCs exist in the article content not the sidebar, but as Szymon suggests in his reply, we could perhaps create new magic words to allow that in future.
 * In terms of emulating a TOC, could you give me an example? Note the styles associated with the existing table of contents will disappear with the new table of contents design, so it would be good to identify any problems prior to roll out. Jdlrobson (talk) 00:24, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Inter-language links
In Vector legacy, an "Edit links" option just below language list takes us to the appropriate section of connected Wikidata item allowing us to (dis)connect articles from other Wikipedias. However, under the Vector 2022 skin, it appears as just another link "Edit inter-language links" in the tools section of left sidebar, far from the new language list. I hope that going forawrd "Edit (inter-language) links" will be brought closer to the language list. &#8212;&#8205;CX Zoom (A/अ/অ) (let's talk&#124;contribs) 23:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, @CX Zoom. It will, you are correct. This is a task for Language engineering, so a different team working on a different set of projects. You can learn more details on Phabricator, the link is in the box. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

The empty TOC box
Hi. Is there something new with the empty TOC box bug? Thanks. IKhitron (talk) 13:52, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Somebody? @SGrabarczuk (WMF)? The Desktop Improvements stopped working a week ago. IKhitron (talk) 03:10, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello @IKhitron. Could you share more details: on what page you experience this problem, what browser and OS you use? We'll need to figure out if this problem is related to the Desktop Improvements in the first place. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 11:35, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello again, @SGrabarczuk (WMF). It's T302461. Since the last time I was here, it was declared as "Unbreak now!" and fixed. IKhitron (talk) 11:59, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Unable to switch back to Vector Legacy skin
I clicked "switch to old look" on any wiki site. However, the skin is still new Vector. I tried refreshing and using the Ctrl + F5/refresh. That didn't help much. George Ho (talk) 05:03, 10 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @George Ho. What did you see when you clicked "switch to old look"? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:11, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Still New Vector skin. George Ho (talk) 14:13, 15 March 2022 (UTC)


 * It's not as clear as it could be but you also need to select "Vector legacy (2010)" and hit save to complete switching to the old look. Jdlrobson (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops, I should have detailed that. Tried to select that option, but that still led me to new Vector. Tried that again and again. Still New Vector. --George Ho (talk) 16:19, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I meant what page you see. @George Ho, after selecting "switch to old look", you should be looking at the preferences. Clicking "switch to old look" isn't enough because this link only sends you to the preferences page where you need to make more steps. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 15:24, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

It might be worth checking global preferences too. There is a conflict between the two under certain circumstances that we are trying to fix. Jdlrobson (talk) 16:27, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Let's talk about our latest prototype and next steps
To everyone who is watching this page but hasn't subscribed to our newsletter yet:

Join an online meeting with the team working on the Desktop Improvements! It will take place on 29 March at 18:00 UTC on Zoom. Click here to join. Meeting ID: 82719061969. Dial by your location.

Agenda


 * Update on the recent developments
 * Presentation of the latest prototype
 * Questions and answers, discussion

Learn more about the office hours. See you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:11, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

How is the progress of 2 phabricator tasks?
I see the news, but the older phabricator task are not fixed in real product: ✍️ Dušan Kreheľ (talk) 18:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 76 items in notice group doesnt mark as read.
 * Long username/language labels leads to horizontal scroll bar on meta on 1000-1200px threshold


 * Hello! Considering the tags, the first task is assigned to Growth, a separate team, not Web. Only the second task is ours. I'll let our designer know that you're asking about this. Generally though, this task might not be a priority because we now focus strictly on the features of Desktop Improvements, and visual tweaks of different types will be a priority next. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:21, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF) First ok.
 * Second, is it so hard, to give this code into CSS @media screen for interval with bad width screen size? Dušan Kreheľ (talk) 13:02, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hm, with @media used is drawing bad with width under 720px. Dušan Kreheľ (talk) 13:26, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Keep the sidebar collapsed as default
I volunteer at Wikisource. Most of my work is done at the Page namespace, and there the sidebar works better collapsed. Every time I open a page for proofreading I need to collapse the sidebar again. Please make it so it stays as I last left it (collapsed or shown). Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 01:32, 1 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I think it would be even more annoying, especially when one uses multiple tabs (if you need to open it and then open a new tab, it’s uncollapsed, but if you close it, it would be collapsed again on the next tab). Probably a preference would be a better solution: if you set it to collapsed in your preferences, it’ll be collapsed on all pages unless you manually uncollapse it, but even then, it’ll be collapse on the next page again. (And since it already differs between logged-in and logged-out users, many of the points in Just make it a user preference don’t apply here.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Whatever, just make it optional. The workflow at Wikisource is different than Wikipedia, and I prefer collapsed every single time I am proofreading. If I need something on the sidebar (seldomly) I'll uncollapse it. Now, I think it is more intuitive to be able to change quickly between the two modes. Sometimes I'm proofreading, then I need wide space to read more easily. Sometimes I'm doing manteinance, then I need the sidebar more often.
 * Maybe we need to have the option to control that behaviour (Even if it's a gadget. Unfortunately, I am very bad at javascript so I can't do it). I can think 3 behaviours:
 * Always on (default)
 * Always off
 * Remember the last one
 * What do you think, @SGrabarczuk (WMF)?? Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 14:59, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, according to the current settings, the state of the sidebar (collapsed/not collapsed) is persistent. This means - if you collapsed it, it should stay collapsed on the page you open next. This should be the solution, and I'm not sure why you experience anything else :/ SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 15:52, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF) I just tested it: it isn't persistent, it's uncollapsed by default. On several wikisources/wikipedia, both with my main account and the tests one, both with my gadgets and with every default setting. It most definitely isn't persistent. Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 16:11, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Excuse me if I'm being a little too persistant, but are you going to check on this please? Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 18:41, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries! Yes, I asked my colleagues and they said there must be a bug. Thanks for reporting it! Click the link in the box to see the details. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

More visibility for Wikimedia and Wikidata
Based on (BTW, nie job, congrats!)

https://di-article-tools-2.web.app/Blauwal?de

I strongly suggest

(a) to move Wikidata to section in "In anderen Projekten" as the "normal user" expects Wikidata in the list of other Wikipedia projects, as it's part of the Wikipedia family and not somewhere in tools. And

(b) to add the relevant icons to the projects name as in the French language Wikipedia. Thus the family of other projects becomes more visibility and might attract users.

Finally, I suggest

(c) to shorten "Wikimedia Commons" to "Wikimedia". The term media is understood in many languages, but the expression "Commons" is not really "straight"; as a consequence, if used as an adjective with Wikimedia it should be used with all other project names as well, what would make the whole story worse, thus act in KISS spirit.

In a nutshell: Make Wikipedia family more prominent and use understandable terms for users

Thx for your work and your attention

Link: https://www.deepl.com/translator#en/de/Commons%0A%0A

cheeers, AnBuKu (talk) 22:21, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you @AnBuKu for your appreciation.
 * Wikidata link is there temporarily. We (Web team) are responsible for the most part of the interface, and Language team works on language-related links such as the Wikidata link. We have received research revealing that readers and new editors don't know that the language links exist. For example, when trying to find "Barcelona" in English, they would go to Google and type "Barcelona English Wikipedia". We suspected that putting this link on top of the page would be an improvement. It was impossible to move all language-related links because we only could do our part. Language have been planning to move the Wikidata link to the menu with interwiki links. Ping @UOzurumba (WMF), FYI :)
 * We will consider this, thank you!
 * This is way, way, way beyond our project. This is a branding thing, and we are "only" improving the interface. I'll let my colleagues working on the brand know about your opinion, though.
 * SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 23:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There are two Wikidata links in the sidebar: one is named “Wikidata item”, links to the top of the item page, and has always been in the toolbox; the other one is named “Edit interlanguage links”, links to the sitelinks (which are below the statements on narrower screens), and is in the interlanguage links section on all skins but new Vector. I think you want to move only the second one to the ULS popup. Moving the first one to the interproject links would probably make sense; however, I think if it’s done, it should be done across skins, so it may be out of the scope of this project. Even worse, the name “Wikimedia” is already used: it means all WMF projects together. Wikimedia Commons is a part of it, just like Wikimedia Meta-Wiki or Wikimedia Incubator (or Wikipedia). —Tacsipacsi (talk) 01:00, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you @SGrabarczuk (WMF) for the FYI. It is noted. UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 19:16, 15 April 2022 (UTC)