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Ai.A13(key) Redirect 0_MSG.13

Short template shortcuts: are they pollution?
Under "Guidelines", the project page states:

Template function should be clear from the template name, but redirects can be created to assist everyday use of very popular templates.

This leaves it unclear whether the name of the redirect itself should also always make clear the function of the target template.

We have a great many template shortcuts that are too short to give much information about the function of the template they redirect to. The more commonly used ones are listed at List of non-self-explanatory template shortcuts.

Two recent RfD discussions, this one and this one, have raised a question over the creation or retention of such templates. They have been described as "cryptic", "obscure", "strange squiggles" and "polluting the edit window". One discussant has [seen] a trend the past few years of templates moving from short, unreadable titles, to clear full word/sentence titles. If this is so, and has consensus, should it not be documented?

The case for such shortcuts would amount to: they save typing; they take up less space in the editing window; many are already much in use.

Aspects of the issue are:


 * Should the creation of new examples of such "short" shortcuts be discouraged?


 * Should further transclusions of existing ones be discouraged?


 * Should existing uses of these shortcuts be converted to the full template names by some automated process?


 * Should the shortcut templates themselves then be deleted?


 * Should the answers to the above depend upon: template function: namespace(s) in which used; number of transclusions; whether applied only once to a page; length of the full template name; any other factor?

Bhunacat10 (talk),  14:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC)


 * In case this is thought a non-issue or a leftover from past times, these short shortcuts are still being made: within the past six months there have been created E22, SON, @A, MCN, Ea, Stc, Vad, Cih, Hir and others. Meanwhile SHD and Sdesc have been deleted, partly on objections to do with the specific Short description project, but also on the general grounds mentioned above. I'm not bothered which way this goes, but I do consider that retention or deletion of any type of template should be based on more than editorial whim Bhunacat10 (talk),  11:04, 28 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I think most of the more recent examples you gave are absolutely unacceptable and not in keeping with the originally spirit of this section of the guideline which I think was mostly written to accommodate such redirects in non-article space - such as talk pages - and a few extremly high-use templates like cn (Template:Citation needed). Fundamentally, there is no point in having a guideline to name templates clearly, if all that is seen in the edit window of articles is an obscure shortcut. As to the question "Should existing uses of these shortcuts be converted to the full template names by some automated process?" - absolutely yes, within articles. AutoWikiBrowser, for example, does this as a semi-automated, secondary function.  I think as a rule, every template called from a mainspace article should be named clearly and linked directly - and I'd be willing to support a change to the guideline to specify that. Perhaps if that's adopted, this can be a bot job, to replace all mainspace redirects with the full name, and then we can mass-delete those redirects. -- Netoholic @  12:15, 28 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose. At the start of this thread is the following citation from policy


 * Template function should be clear from the template name, but redirects can be created to assist everyday use of very popular templates.


 * This is followed by this reaction:


 * This leaves it unclear whether the name of the redirect itself should also always make clear the function of the target template.


 * I submit that it is perfectly clear. The English word but indicates that what follows is in contrast to what proceeds.  If the intent of the policy was that the redirects also be completely spelled out and clear, the word but would not have been used. The threshold of how frequently used a template needs to be for cryptic template shortcuts to exist is probably higher for mainspace than for talkspace and higher for talkspace than technical spaces like template and template talk frequented primarily by experienced editors. See, for example, the use of tq by the editor who started this thread. But any attempt to establish a definitive list of acceptable exceptions based on frequency of use sounds like a proposal only the most entrenched of bureaucrat would like. A more productive solution would be to enable something akin to page previews that would explain templates when the wikitext is being edited; this would allow the experienced user to use usefully short shortcut and give the newbie an easy way to learn. YBG (talk) 15:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

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Wikipedia copyright

Shouldn't this page transclude Template:Wikipedia copyright? It's listed in the navigation box thus produced (also shown to the right of this text), and it's kind of confusing when those don't appear on each page listed.


 * &#x2014;SamB 19:26, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

In particular, I'm proposing that: be inserted above:  at the beginning of the page.


 * &#x2014;SamB 19:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * No opposition, so ✅ &#x2014; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:16, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

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