Architecture meetings/RFC review 2014-08-13

2100-2200 UTC on Wednesday, 13 Aug 2014, at.

Requests for Comment to review

 * 1) Who is now the point person for CentralNotice Caching Overhaul - Frontend Proxy?
 * 2) Followup from 23 July: have we done security update planning re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster?
 * 3) Followup from 21 May: has cscott run the requested stats on Square bounding boxes?
 * 4) Followup from 16 July: does Brion know the next steps re CSSJanus on vertical writing support?
 * 5) Followup from 11 June: how has the bandwidth savings been on Reducing image quality for mobile? Will we change regular/original images as well as thumbnails?

Also, it would be good to have a Wikimania followup/reportout of any big decisions made there.

Meeting summary
Meeting started by sumanah at 21:04:21 UTC. The full logs are available at https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2014/wikimedia-office.2014-08-13-21.04.log.html .


 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings (sumanah, 21:05:30)
 * Wikimania (sumanah, 21:05:34)
 * there's discussion of how to expand/delegate from the arch committee but nothing's finalized yet (ghostsumana, 21:12:23)


 * RfC followuo (brion, 21:13:11)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-08-13 (ghostsumana, 21:13:16)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/CentralNotice_Caching_Overhaul_-_Frontend_Proxy (sumanah, 21:14:19)
 * AGREED: that AndyRussG is the new CentralNotice Caching Overhaul - Frontend Proxy point person, and awight helps out friendly-like (sumanah, 21:15:26)
 * let's look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-30 for a bit of context (sumanah, 21:16:56)
 * ACTION: csteipp to check with Bryan re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster security planning (sumanah, 21:26:05)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-16 and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Vertical_writing_support (sumanah, 21:27:58)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-06-11 (sumanah, 21:31:14)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Reducing_image_quality_for_mobile (sumanah, 21:31:17)
 * LINK: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hit_stats_aggregation#Image_views ? (superm401, 21:37:28)
 * square bounding boxes still delayed and waiting on cscott's time and community appetite for change :) (sumanah, 21:44:42)

Meeting ended at 21:49:59 UTC.

Action items

 * csteipp to check with Bryan re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster security planning

Action items, by person

 * csteipp
 * csteipp to check with Bryan re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster security planning

People present (lines said)

 * sumanah (77)
 * brion (25)
 * yurikR (12)
 * superm401 (9)
 * AndyRussG (8)
 * ghostsumana (7)
 * awight (7)
 * mark (5)
 * csteipp (5)
 * milimetric (5)
 * wm-labs-meetbot (4)
 * ori (3)
 * awjr (3)
 * cscott (2)
 * Samoyed (2)
 * atgo (2)
 * Thehelpfulone (2)
 * parent5446 (1)
 * Emufarmers (1)
 * Tim-away (0)

Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4 (http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot)

Full log
21:04:21 #startmeeting RfC catchup | Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours | Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ 21:04:21  Meeting started Wed Aug 13 21:04:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sumanah. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:04:21  Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:04:21  The meeting name has been set to 'rfc_catchup___channel_is_logged_and_publicly_posted__do_not_remove_this_note_____https___meta_wikimedia_org_wiki_irc_office_hours___logs__http___bots_wmflabs_org__wm_bot_logs__23wikimedia_office_' 21:04:21 she's back! 21:04:33 #chair brion Tim-away mark sumanah 21:04:33  Current chairs: Tim-away brion mark sumanah 21:04:41 How was Wikimania? :) 21:04:53 * sumanah was not there 21:04:55 good fun :) still in UK 21:05:12 2 topics today - basically, 1) anything from Wikimania folks need to know about? 21:05:14 point to notes, etc 21:05:23 and 2) some followup/next steps from previous meetings 21:05:30 #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings 21:05:34 #topic Wikimania 21:05:58 so, brion aude awjr cscott greg-g and all the rest of y'all who were at Wikimania 21:06:03 any architectural or design decisions? 21:06:10 * awjr waves 21:06:14 i wasn't actually at wikimania :) 21:06:20 im just lurking 21:06:56 no huge decisions yet. were talking about expanding/delegating from the arch committee but nothing's finalized yet 21:07:32 but that should help with some more rfc work later :) 21:07:53 Is the arch committee the same as the three Architects? 21:08:00 hahahaha 21:08:00 TrevorParscal: James_F I think you were there, right? 21:08:00 any decisions that need reporting back that haven't already made it to wikitech-l? 21:08:10 for the moment yes its the three of us 21:08:20 but soon: moar! 21:08:30 :) 21:09:51 Ill make sure we get a few things summarized I have notes to go back over 21:10:57 but nothing earth shattering. the main controversies right now are outside arch committees purvue :P 21:12:23 #info there's discussion of how to expand/delegate from the arch committee but nothing's finalized yet 21:12:40 brion: while I fuss with IRC will you switch #topic to RfC followup? 21:12:47 whoah, what is ghostsumana? 21:12:54 Whooooo I'm a ghost! 21:13:11 #topic RfC followuo 21:13:16 #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-08-13 21:13:21  she has come to coordinate this meeting from beyoooooond the graaaaaaaaaaaaaave 21:13:26 woopa I'm on my phone and can't spell 21:13:31 hahahaha 21:13:37 it's fine 21:13:46 IT'S NOT FINE. I AM A GHOST. 21:13:55 * sumanah is laughing too hard 21:13:55 :) 21:13:57 ok! 21:13:59 AndyRussG: 21:14:09 CentralNotice proxy! fundraising! thing! who is the point person now? 21:14:19 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/CentralNotice_Caching_Overhaul_-_Frontend_Proxy 21:14:27 Is it awight? 21:14:32 * awight points to AndyRussG 21:14:39  I think it's me :) 21:14:40 I can be a loyal "yes" person though 21:14:48 excellent 21:15:18  Things always work out best if there's a disloyal "no" person and a loyal "yes" person 21:15:26 #agreed that AndyRussG is the new CentralNotice Caching Overhaul - Frontend Proxy point person, and awight helps out friendly-like 21:15:29 ok, moving on! 21:15:34 Followup from 23 July: have we done security update planning re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster? 21:15:35  Quick question first? 21:15:42 oh go ahead AndyRussG 21:15:43  Or questions? 21:16:01 (these are the #links I forged in life) 21:16:14 heh 21:16:17  1) Timeline needed/expected: how soon does everyone need aciton on the CentralNotice RfC? 21:16:56 #info let's look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-30 for a bit of context 21:17:02  And 2) just to confirm that ESI is still a ways off? 21:17:11 ESI is still a fair bit out 21:17:30 Jeff_Green: ^ 21:17:33 ... and whether leaning on the ESI issue might accelerate things :p 21:17:34 (just for heads-up) 21:18:30 I'm going to lose signal be right back 21:18:36 ok 21:18:59 AndyRussG: I think your product manager-type person is the one to talk with about schedules. Anne? 21:18:59 mark: is the blocker for ESI the Varnish 3.* upgrade, or something else? 21:19:04 atgo_: ^^ 21:19:09 at least the varnish 4 upgrade 21:19:14 and who knows if it's reliable then 21:19:46 ok we can chat offline, that's news at least! 21:20:12 hey all. getting caught up here - major computer/IRC issues today 21:21:26 ok atgo - AndyRussG asked: "Timeline needed/expected: how soon does everyone need aciton on the CentralNotice RfC?" 21:21:41  K I guess we could look into timeline for the CentralNotice RfC in more detail later, and get back to everyone maybe via Wikitech 21:21:55 ok! 21:22:03 sounds like a good plan AndyRussG 21:22:08 csteipp: Followup from 23 July: have we done security update planning re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster? 21:22:09  :) 21:22:14 bd808|BUFFER: 21:22:30 also "bd808 to get repo renamed from mw/core/vendor to mw/vendor" - happened? 21:22:33 Not really? 21:23:09 I know bd808|BUFFER is sponsoring the monolog bit, so he's the person to watch for updates, and will delegate someone else if when he's no longer able to 21:23:30 But the process hasn't been documented anywhere that I'm aware of 21:23:42  oh mark whilst you're here YGM from me about a mailman upgrade 21:23:46 "Look into https://security.sensiolabs.org/check and https://github.com/sensiolabs/security-advisories for vulnerability tracking" - can we assign this to Bryan as well? 21:23:55 Thehelpfulone: yes, sorry, i'll respond tomorrow 21:24:13  thanks 21:24:46 Right, I was on vacation for that meeting... no wonder it didn't look familiar. That sensiolabs thing looks interesting. 21:25:41 I'll check with Bryan when he gets back and see if he's set it up anywhere. 21:26:05 #action csteipp to check with Bryan re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster security planning 21:26:23 ok, next Followup from 21 May: has cscott run the requested stats on Square bounding boxes? 21:26:32 cscott: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-05-21 and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Square_bounding_boxes 21:27:26 I know it's past the end of the working day on the East Coast really 21:27:30 so I'll move on 21:27:38 or europe :p 21:27:41 brion: are you pingable? 21:27:42 certainly! 21:27:44 yo 21:27:49 brion: Followup from 16 July: does Brion know the next steps re CSSJanus on vertical writing support? 21:27:58 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-16 and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Vertical_writing_support 21:28:23 sumanah: if nobody else wants to take it it’s still on my research todo list, but i have to follow up on it further 21:29:50 brion: well it was assigned to you which is why I think people thought it was your task 21:29:57 yes :) 21:29:59 :) 21:30:15 just haven’t gotten to it yet, it’s still in my queue 21:30:18 got it 21:30:30 np, if the RfC authors want more activity happening, they have their own TODOs 21:31:07 ok, next, yurikR 21:31:08 Followup from 11 June: how has the bandwidth savings been on Reducing image quality for mobile? Will we change regular/original images as well as thumbnails? 21:31:14 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-06-11 21:31:17 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Reducing_image_quality_for_mobile 21:32:30 From the notes, it seems like the idea was to have a user option for changing the quality of full-size (i.e. originals as of now) images. 21:32:42 I assume it would still keep the originally uploaded image for a couple reasons: 21:32:47  sumanah, we have deployed it for a limitted number of partners, but we don't have an easy way to measure it yet. I will try to come up with some data from zero logs, and we should probably ping analytics 21:33:07 superm401: yeah it’s an alternate version of the thumbnail 21:33:24 the originals are unchanged 21:33:54 Thanks for clarifying, brion. 21:33:56 <yurikR> i think the biggest partner, russian beeline, is on the new shrinkimg as of two weeks ago 21:34:59 <yurikR> so now we need a way to evaluate the bandwidth. Does anyoen know if there is a way to monitor bandwidth like that? 21:35:17 yurikR: count the hits and multiply by the file size, i suppose :D 21:35:34 Analytics people? 21:35:42 milimetric: ^ 21:35:51 hi 21:35:54 <yurikR> brion, you mean to basically analyze zero logs which have some sort of a file size 21:35:57 * milimetric reads up 21:36:12 yurikR, I think there is now page view data on images, so if nothing else, you could same some image hits, calculate the bandwidth used, then check the equivalent without the lower-qualityversion. 21:36:36 yurikR: with luck the log entries include file size. without luck, you have to look up the files to get the number 21:36:57 brion, to be clear I was talking about, "maybe someday we could also change original/regular images, not just thumbnails, if the user wants to save bandwidth there, too, but let's see how thumbs go first." from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-06-11 21:37:02 <yurikR> brion, yes, that's what i was planning to do, ignoring all the 304s. superm401 any links? 21:37:28 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hit_stats_aggregation#Image_views ? 21:37:32 Just found that. 21:37:35 yurikR: lemme check real quick, I know the hadoop logs have the response size, but not sure about the other logs 21:37:52 superm401: ah i think that’s for when you zoom in rather than modifying the original file 21:38:05 just curl the urls and measure the file size that way 21:38:06 <yurikR> milimetric, i thought we didn't have a functioning hadoop 21:38:08 if you do it for a sample 21:38:11 that's fine 21:38:30 Yeah, I assume the same would go (only affects display, original is unaffected), but someone should correct me if there has been discussion of lossy changes to the actual original. 21:38:31 yurikR: not for public consumption yet, but it's there to poke around 21:39:57 <yurikR> milimetric, will it have X-Analytics field? 21:41:28 ok, yurikR do you have the answers you need? 21:41:30 any action items? 21:42:07 <yurikR> sumanah, just checked in the zero logs, it seems multimedia is not being marked with X-Analytics (zero) tags 21:42:10 yurikR: let's talk further in -analytics if you want 21:42:18 <yurikR> milimetric, ok, thx 21:42:38 that was the last question I had, but brion mark and anyone else, if you have more RfC questions please speak up 21:42:44 otherwise we can wrap up 21:42:52 i’m good for now 21:42:58 cscott: ping in case you have Square bounding box thoughts :) 21:43:15 * sumanah looks at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes 21:43:37 <yurikR> brion, will be happy about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph 21:43:49 sorry, i'm overwhelmed with PDF stuff, haven't had any brain cycles to spare for fixing images 21:43:51 \o/ 21:43:54 <yurikR> almost ready to deply ;) 21:44:00 <yurikR> pending sec review 21:44:07 also, i don't have the appetite for breaking the world at the moment. ;) enough turmoil already atm. 21:44:17 gi11es and Ops ( mark ?) let me update https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes with what they had said 21:44:42 #info square bounding boxes still delayed and waiting on cscott's time and community appetite for change :) 21:45:35 got it cscott 21:46:05 mark: re https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes did you end up organizing the sprint you suggested? 21:46:21 "As you know there�s a fair amount of desire to change the way thumb handling & storage works, support more variants (sizes, quality), etc by various teams. I�m starting to think it would be good for us to organise a sprint on this very topic, get the multimedia team, relevant Ops people and some other interested developers from other teams and really dive into these problems." 21:46:27 (after this I'm gonna close it up) 21:46:30 (the meeting I mean) 21:46:47 ghostsumana I think your time wandering this earth is coming to an end 21:47:08 I only came here to fulfill the need to make this meeting happen; now I am at peace 21:47:15 <Samoyed> wait what's happening 21:47:18 <Samoyed> what just happened 21:47:23 :) 21:47:45 Samoyed: (My IRC connection broke for a few min so I opened up a webchat thing as "ghostsumana" to kick off the rfc review) 21:48:01 harej: ^ 21:48:16 bringin' a little Tumblr spirit to these meetings 21:49:19 ok, so I'm gonna read that as a no, no sprint planned yet 21:49:55 thanks everyone! 21:49:59 #endmeeting