User talk:Peterblaise

Still looking for an accurate, contemporaneous "MediaWiki Installation Manual"
Peter Blaise says: failing contribute to http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Contents/To_do (loca cookie/chache issue), I'll try to create one here. I look forward to anyone else trying to document the various roads to success implementing MediaWikis. As of 2007-05-18 there is no discussion yet!

My Struggle #1: prototype, building an intranet-sharable Wiki that does not require admin privileges on my local primary workstation. Cornelius Herzog's Wiki on WOS (Webserver On a usb Stick) from http://www.chsoftware.net/ works, but requires that I permit each visitor access by manually entering their IP address into a list, which requires that I be here for newbies to achieve initial success, and so dampens their enthusiasm to stay with the learning curve, and also is blind in that I can't easily know who's at what IP address. Also, this in Intranet only.

My struggle #2: alpha/beta, building an intranet-sharable Wiki WITH admin privileges on my remote secondary workstation. After many iterative struggles with Windows, IIS versus Apache, PHP, MySQL, I finally have 2 MediaWiki systems working on 1 MySQL. However, I have yet to find a resource that lists the linking steps and confirmation checks between MSWinXPPro, Apache, PHP, MySQL, and MediaWiki. PHPMyAdmin refuses to connect to MySQL, so there's more to do.

My dream struggle #3: build multiple Wikis that do not share the same database, and share over the Internet.

If anyone has links to resources that support resolutions to these struggles, please share! I've read most of the ones in Google's top search results and find they are missing specific linking steps and confirmation checks, and are usually out of date (MySQL 4 and PHP 4 and MediaWiki 1.3, for instance).

Here are some http://www.Google.com/ searches and results:
 * Search Terms: install mediawiki apache php mysql win xp winxp windows xp phpmyadmin ... and so on.


 * http://www.Google.com/ results:
 * http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Apache,-MySQL,-PHP,-and-phpMyAdmin-on-a-Windows-PC
 * http://www.wikihow.com/Install-phpMyAdmin-on-Your-Windows-PC
 * http://www.wikihow.com/Install-the-Apache-Web-Server-on-a-Windows-PC
 * http://www.wikihow.com/Install-the-MySQL-Database-Server-on-Your-Windows-PC
 * http://www.bicubica.com/apache-php-mysql/index.php
 * http://www.wikihow.com/Install-the-PHP-Engine-on-Your-Windows-PC
 * http://www.devside.net/
 * http://oss.segetech.com/wamp.html
 * http://www.wampserver.com/en/index.php
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_Windows_Server_2003
 * http://www.sematopia.com/?p=28http://www.yafla.com/dennisforbes/Many-Ways-to-Skin-a-Wiki-Hosting-a-Wiki-on-Windows/Many-Ways-to-Skin-a-Wiki-Hosting-a-Wiki-on-Windows.html
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_Windows_XP_-_MediaWiki_1.9.2
 * http://www.php.net/manual/en/install.windows.php
 * ... and so on for ~1,100,000 others.

... NONE of which are contemporaneous, complete, accurate, nor do they include linking steps and confirmation checks for the entire suite of OS, WS, DB, PI, WP, and E&E. Don'tcha love abbreviations? Anyway, these generic terms might help structure a "manual":


 * OS = Operating System - Linux, Windows ...
 * WS = Web Server - Apache, MS/IIS ...
 * DB = DataBase - MySQL, PostgreSQL ...
 * PI = Program/html parser/interpreter - PHP ...
 * WP = Wiki Program - MediaWiki ...
 * E&E = Extensions and Enhancements - FCKEditor, PHPMyAdmin, cache ...

I'll contribute what I have, but I have scant little success because no one else seems willing to return here or anywhere with their notes on the way to their own success.

-- Peter Blaise peterblaise 10:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I have moved your additions
Hi, and welcome to the mediawiki wiki. I have moved your addition to Manual:Backing up a wiki to the talk page, because it doesn't seem appropriate the way it is now. -- Duesentrieb ⇌ 11:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi Peter, thanks for your input and the thoughts about this "looking for a manual" issue. I think your hints will become more useful soon … I dunno when this could lead to a nearly complete manual though (always depends on the people actually adding new and reworking existing contents). Well, there's still no real community on this site, and the main discussion about the site's content itself is somehow fragmented and often laggy. I added a short note to Manual talk:Contents btw., and Manual:Contents/To do was already helpful :-) Regards -- :Bdk: 00:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm
Hi Peter, could you please not mess up pages here? Two points: Thanks -- :Bdk: 15:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1)  – The help namespace is for the general PD help, not for system administration or manual stuff.
 * 2)  – Use talk pages if you have questions. That's why they are there.

--


 * Peter Blaise responds: You say: "... don't change other user's comments ..." when you probably mean "...please do not change my comments...", which is hypocritical since you changed - DELETED - my comments elsewhere rather than discuss my comments with your own contrasting point of view!
 * Now, I cannot read your post above due to abbreviated references, so I expanded the references. If you prefer that I leave your post truncated and abbreviated, so be it!  Here's my expansion of your post so I can read it and see what you are talking about, so I can cut and past and print the links and check them for myself:


 * Hmm
 * Hi Peter, could you please not mess up pages here? Two points:
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Namespaces&diff=prev&oldid=101131 – The help namespace is for the general [Project:PD help] = PD help, not for system administration or manual stuff.
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Extension:CheckUser&action=history – Use talk pages if you have questions. That's why they are there.
 * Thanks --:Bdk: 15:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, you missed one point. You started an editwar within the help namespace. Do not do so again.
 * The rest of your reply is in the wrong location as it belongs to another thread below. -- :Bdk: 20:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Since Help:Namespaces is THE article you get when you ask for "NAMESPACES" at MediaWiki,org, why not put ALL help (or links) for NAMESAPCES in the article page?
The Help:Namespaces article page does not offer help on the MediaWiki meaning of the the word "namespace" - see
 * MediaWiki.org: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Namespace

So ... what is the Help:Namespaces article for? It does not even have links to deeper inforamtion about Namespaces. I can't find the definition of "namespace" when typing into the MediaWiki [search] bar. Searching on Google, I can find the following:
 * Wikipedia.org: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace

which comes from
 * Meta.WikiMedia.org: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace

Is there a reason MediaWiki.org can't see "meta" or can't find the meanings of any MediaWiki word typed into it's own [search] bar? See also Google search for define:namsespace for general non-MediaWiki meanings of the word "namespace". May I suggest that we all look up the existing meaning of words before we create new meanings?

Note that MediaWiki "articles" without a colon (:) in their name are in the "main" "namespace", which is for "articles". When contributing to a wiki, "articles/documents" that aren't directly related to the main/default "namespace" are probably best placed in/under other namespaces. When articles/documents are in another namespace than the main namespace, you get to them and build them by typing namespace:article-name; e.g. ':'. For example, to build "wtf" under "help" go/search for "help:wtf" and the MediaWiki software will with bring you to an existing page if there is one, or it will respond with an offer to allow you to build such a new page.

Here are a few default namespace names:


 * Help:nnn
 * Documentation about working with the wiki software. This could be mirrored from outside sites, or locally written.
 * Help typically used for the MediaWiki User's Guide, with the wikitext a frequently refreshed copy of the master version on Meta-Wikipedia, but with project-specific templates
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * Image:nnn
 * For descriptions of uploaded files. You shouldn't create these directly; they are created when you click the Upload file link in the toolbox.
 * Image images and other uploaded files, with image description pages (list: Special:Imagelist)
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * Media:nnn
 * Use this namespace to link to uploaded files directly, rather than through the description pages.
 * Media pseudo-namespace for images and other files themselves, as opposed to the image description pages; see also below
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * MediaWiki:nnn
 * Use this namespace to change the default system messages, See Help:MediaWiki_namespace on meta.
 * MediaWiki system messages (list: Special:Allmessages), editable by users, or if protected, by sysops
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * Project:nnn
 * Information about this wiki; i.e. policies that apply here. This namespace also has an alias, which is the name of the wiki installation.
 * Meta the project namespace for matters about the project, such as guidelines and discussions; see also the Help: namespace
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * Talk:nnn
 * Each page has a corresponding discussion page. This can be used for feedback/comments about that page, or other local notes that another group may want to associate with the page, without modifying the document directly, or for any other additional information to associate with the document.
 * Talk see Help:Talk page for this and the following odd-numbered namespaces
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * Template:nnn
 * This is used for meta-information that is to be transcluded into multiple documents, such as tags to mark the status of a document.
 * Template the default namespace for templates: the wikitext code refers to and includes the page Template:name
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * User:nnn
 * For personal notes. Each User has a corresponding user page for their own information.  Users can also create subpages, by using a / after their name.
 * User registered users (list: Special:Listusers) have a user homepage User:username (linked to by the system from user names in lists of edits, e.g. on page histories, and from signatures on talk pages); this and subpages of it can be used to present oneself, for project-related bookmarks, and for drafts, tests, and other working material. One can put here material to give oneself one-step access to it from any page in the same project, and one can put here links to give oneself two-step access to the link targets from any page in the same project as the user page. For users who do not log in, the same applies, with the IP as username. Dynamic IPs are a complication.
 * Examples: (needed, please)
 * User_talk:nnn
 * The discussion page on a user's page can be used for leaving messages. If this page is edited, the next time that user logs in they will see a box notifying them that they have new messages
 * User_talk
 * Examples: (needed, please)

... more - see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace

--

What say, does anyone want to DISCUSS this rather than delete it? What will it take for us to have (a) respect for contributor's information when we find it and (b) a functional organization, including standard site-wide tables of contents, index and glossary? -- Peter Blaise peterblaise 16:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Stop
Peter, please stop disturbing by double- and cross-posting long threads, by re-inserting removed texts on (random talk) pages and by very unusual (formal) reworking of other users' comments, immediately.

I'm watching your behaviour for some weeks now, first with a rather positive impression (see the above section "Thanks") and with the hope that you'll get used to the site and the work of its small community (what we do in which way) by and by. This seems not very likely at the moment :-/

In addition, if you want to improve your understanding of wikis/wiki communities in general and mediawiki.org in particular, please make yourself familiar with the basic conventions of this site; please read at least About this site, Project:PD help, Project:Current issues carefully.

Before adding your questions and/or comments directly to (article) texts written by other users, please consult the appropriate (article or user) talk page. If you don't understand the aim of the PD help project, refrain from editing the help namespace.

-- :Bdk: 18:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

--


 * Peter Blaise responds:


 * Dear Bdk,


 * Thank for your efforts to support others here. And thank you for the links.
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/About_this_site
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:PD_help (What does the abbreviation "PD" mean?)
 * http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues


 * How would I have found them if you didn't tell me? If they are important, is there a way to incorporate them into a welcoming presentation when anyone enters MediaWiki.org?  I'll get back to you on what I think of them - perhaps I'll edit them to make them as accurate as I can.  Thanks for pointing me to them.


 * Also, thanks for your offer to me (above - to stop "disturbing" and double posting, and so on), but I decline to give ownership of the open-source wiki-based MediaWiki.org support environment to you in exclusion of my contribution. I'm not sure what you mean by "...unusual (formal) reworking of other users' comments...", so you might provide a link or example to clarify what you mean.  Do you mean expanding small links to full kinks like "[1]" to "http://www.link.com/" ?  I'm not sure what's so wrong with that, as that's the only way I can see the links when I cut and paste and PDF and read the pages off line then go to another computer to type in the referred to links.  [1] gets me nowhere.  But, I suppose that if such abbreviated links are in someone's discussion comments, then I might instead leave them as is, and respond by adding my expanded links below their comment, as I show here above.  I've printed the articles and discussions and will read them next.


 * However, I read your comment above as threatening to somehow close the open source wiki MediaWiki.org environment to me if I do not do things your way or the way you think others have done things. Is that what you are saying?  Please clarify!  I'm sorry for you, but I insist on participating, just as you do, and I insist on participating in my own way, just as you choose to do.  You may think you are following "rules" but if your "rules" end up making MediaWiki.org hard to comprehend for the next person, then I hope you would consider the goals of the rule you are following.  However, unlike you, I don't want to delete other's hard work.  I strive to edit for clarity.  I do NOT delete entire contributions by other people, and you and some others have.  We use the MediaWiki.org resources differently.  There are two reasons I cut and paste one comment to more than one place:
 * (1) every MediaWiki.org resource is already split across many places, so asking for help in multiple places is perfectly in pattern and logical - perhaps you can take the hint to consolidate the divided resources, eh?
 * (2) people like you delete entire posts, so, if I put it in a couple of places, one copy at least may last long enough to garner a helpful response - I hope!


 * So, we disagree. Fine.  We disagree.  THAT is what open-source and wiki-based environments are designed to allow - DISAGREEMENT - and we all can still just get along!  In the war you are declaring against me, neither if us will win.  But, I hope to encourage you to use your powers NOT for deleting, but for honoring my efforts, and the good faith efforts of others who try to contribute what we can here, by respecting our contributions.  Can you make our contributions better?  Great - then edit them, move them (if you know a better place - and PLEASE include links so others may know of such places, too!), add to them, and even share your opposition to them - right there beside, or below, the person's who's contributions you are at odd with.  Cool.  That's what we're all here for - to SHARE the space and make it better for everyone, not to bump each other off and make it inaccessible to those with whom we disagree.


 * I resent you "watching my contributions" as if you feel obliged to approve or delete my participation in the MediaWiki.org environment. When the name changes to BdkWiki, I'll leave it up to you.  Until then, welcome me, make a functional connection with me, or leave me alone, and just get along with me.  I am a MediaWiki evangelist in my organization, why crush my attempts to get and give support right along with everyone else on MediaWiki.org?  Thank you. -- Peter Blaise peterblaise 19:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, what I asked you to follow – the basic conventions of and for this site – is not at all about ownership, but about community and understanding of constructive collaboration!


 * You instead insist on adding your (more or less confusing, messy, and rather unhelpful) comments to the main and help namespaces, including your signature, "open questions" and personal claims. This is not and will not be acceptable, and the next attempt to do so might result in an unexpected break (yes, this is a warning).
 * If you are – for whatever reason – frustrated, this is no reason to add complaining comments all over the site and to keep other users busy with such stuff.
 * If you really want to help mediawiki.org, than get familiar with it and then start editing and actual improving, not the other way around. Especially, do not add questions and complaints to help pages if you are unsure – if needed or possible, add reviewed/confirmed content, that is in fact usable and helpful for readers.
 * Note: There's not much sense in this sort of complaining (like you did) within an open source project where nearly everyone is active on a voluntary basis. You can't expect, that everything that you aren't comfortable with will be fixed within days. If you want something to be fixed, than 1) ask others to help in a friendly and motivating way, or 2) learn and do it yourself.


 * Do not lie! The only things added by you that I deleted were duplicate (or completely misplaced redundant) and therefore highly pointless posts, e.g. this one. I did not delete "the last copy" in any case.
 * If you would edit like all other more active users here – only once per issue and on the appropriate pages – there would be no need for removal or deletion, of course. By "unusual edit format" I meant stuff like this and that (in addition see en.wikipedia where another user asked you the same in April).


 * PS1: The 3 links I gave you above are all linked from the main navigation. Just click the second link. Well, about this site is even linked from the recentchanges and several other interface pages.
 * PS2: If you would have read Project:PD help and/or the note that is placed on every page within the help namespace once, you would already know what PD stands for: public domain.
 * PS3: There's no CamelCase within Wikimedia, and lay off the caps lock, please.
 * -- :Bdk: 20:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't really have much to add to Bdk's comments, except that I don't expect you would behave in this manner if you decided to visit your local community centre for the first time, or a new gym, or a film club. If you would like to contribute to our community (and it appears from your early postings that you could become a valuable member) then please try and learn a bit about what we are trying to do and the ways the community has already chosen to do it.  Most people don't seem to have any difficulty doing that. --HappyDog 01:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)