Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Archive9

Search box issue with mouse cursor on desktop
So if I place my mouse cursor near (specifically, a little below) the search box and then type a result in and press enter, instead of going to the main topic / main result or whatever, it goes straight to the item my mouse cursor was over on. This is quite annoying, as I have been brought to the wrong result numerous times this way, and I have to be careful and put my mouse cursor significantly away from the search box for it to not interfere.

Make it so that when the user is only using keyboard to use the search box, no matter where you put the mouse cursor, e.g. over the second result, it always goes to the main result for the terms entered. Additionally, even if you hover over a search item with the mouse cursor, pressing enter on the keyboard should still result in the search going to the main topic and not over what the mouse cursor was hovered on. Keyboard and mouse navigation should be made separate, and should not interfere with each other.

AP 499D25 (talk) 05:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @AP 499D25, thanks for yor feedback, this task is open on Phabricator. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 15:13, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

"Missing in norsk" is nonsensical
All pages with a full Norwegian translation are missing a Norwegian translation according to the language dropdown. Norwegian has two variants, including on Wikipedia, Bokmål (common) and Nynorsk (rare), there's no other thing when both variants are covered.

Right now, it is like complaining that a page with both a British variant and an American variant isn't available in English. KristofferR (talk) 02:21, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @KristofferR, perhaps your problem should be the same of this task? I will notify the Language Team about your feedback in the Talk page of the Universal Language Selector, I think there are decisions that are better suited for other teams. Thank you for reporting this issue. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 13:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried reproducing this but could not. Can you give an example on which page on which wiki are you seeing this? Nikerabbit (talk) 09:14, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * CC @KristofferR Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 17:09, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing it on all English articles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckwheat for example, is missing Norsk, while being available in Norsk Bokmål and Norsk Nynorsk. KristofferR (talk) 14:33, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Video demo @Patafisik (WMF):
 * https://i.imgur.com/zQOJVTD.mp4 KristofferR (talk) 14:37, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I have a guess. Can you open a developer/javascript console of your browser and write  in there, press enter and paste the output here.
 * I guess you have  in the list there for some reason. Nikerabbit (talk) 13:49, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup, I do. Array(5) [ "en", "se", "nb", "no", "nn" ].
 * I also wonder why I have the microlanguage Davvisámegiella (se) in that array, I only clicked on it after I wondered what the hell it was. However, I am interested in Swedish articles, and read them all the time, so that seems like an additional bug that should also be fixed.
 * I wonder if the code has a bug where it uses both ISO 3166-1 and ISO 639-1, despite the same words meaning different things, like se. KristofferR (talk) 17:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. We are tracking the suggestion issue in Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T328435 Nikerabbit (talk) 12:08, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, good luck figuring it out!
 * BTW, is there any way for me to set the FrequentLanguageList manually? That would be helpful. KristofferR (talk) 08:58, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No easy way. It's stored in browser local storage under key . There is also   in JavaScript. Nikerabbit (talk) 13:34, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Why is the log in button hidden behind the three dots symbol?
Currently, on Vector 2022, the top right corner shows the button "Create Account", as well as a symbol of three dots. The log in button is hidden behind these three buttons. Why is that? This means that users need unnecessary amount of clicks to log in. The corner has plenty of empty space, so the log in button would fit well next to the "Create Account" button.

If the white space in the top right corner is for some reason important, why isn't the log in button visible and account creation behind the three dots symbol? After all, users usually only need to create an account once, but they need to log in many times. Valtaisa varpunen (talk) 12:34, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm happy to see that the log-in button is no longer hidden in Vector 2022. Thank you! Valtaisa varpunen (talk) 15:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Multiple languages UX/UI
I am writing to make a suggestion/feedback about the language options in the new UI of English language Wikipedia. While I appreciate the aesthetics, and believe things look nice, slick, and up-to-date, I would like to suggest a more straightforward way to lay out the languages options (e.g., English, 中文，日本語, etc). In the old UI, languages are laid out on the bottom left side of the page, if you need to switch between languages, the options are 1) visible, 2) only one click away. As a bilingual user of Wikipedia who need to switch between languages, I find it very helpful. The new version of UI still allows switching between languages, but it is not as easy: you will need to click on the langauge menu to see if there is a Chinese version of the entry. If yes, you click one more time to get to the page, but if no, you just wasted a click that could have been saved. I am not saying rolling back the old UI, it is just that the old language module was more friendly to users who actually use it frequently and I wish the up-to-date UI can perserve that. 146.151.105.184 05:55, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your feedback. This is being explore in this task to find a way to help users who switch languages frequently. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 09:35, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Don't fix what ain't broke
Oh come on Wikimedia, you know better than that! What was wrong with the old layout? What problem did you solve?

For me, everything was right! It was clear, it worked in old browsers, and it allowed me to quickly switch between languages by a simple click. Is someone suffering from "new is always better" syndrome over at Wikimedia? ;) There was no better way to spend the money I send you every year?  If we all sent you less, would such "upgrades" be out-of-budget in the future? :) I fear that Wikimedia got infected by Parkinson's Law, project managers looking for some raison d'etre, wasting resources. I hope I'm wrong.

If you must have this new "better" layout, please, at least give people an easy way to go back to the one they prefer. Without logging in of course - such nonsense! Write a flag in a cookie, problem solved.

Thank you for the otherwise awesome and free encyclopiedia! I use it daily, can't imagine internet without it! 5.173.48.145 (talk) 03:19, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Start of redirect targets hidden by top horizontal bar
See, e.g., en:WP:RELATED: the first line of text visible reads "intended to link to topics that are simply...". In other skins, the first line of text visible is the section title: "Linking to articles that are related to the topic". Fgnievinski (talk) 03:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Fgnievinski, I unfortunately can't replicate - I checked on two browsers (Chrome and Firefox) and three widths (full, which is 2,5k px, ~1000 px, and ~400 px, and every time, the section title is the first line of visible text for me. What browser and display resolution do you use? Do you use any additional browser zoom? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * here's a screenshot: https://pasteboard.co/v1lMc2Q1Hjn9.png
 * my screen resolution is 1280x720 and zoom level is 100%.
 * I'm using Chrome in incognito mode to avoid add-ons.
 * the problem only appears after I login into Wikipedia.
 * Here are some of my preferences:
 * - Skin: Vector (2022)
 * - Skin preferences: Enable responsive mode (Adapt layout to screen size on mobile.)
 * - Beta: New wikitext mode
 * Thanks for your support. Fgnievinski (talk) 19:18, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I can replicate the Problem, though my first line is "Disambiguation...". I sometimes have the same Problem while using the new TOC. It seems to have something to do with the sticky Header. At first the Heading is visible for a blink of an eye, than the sticky Header pops up and the Text is blocked. HirnSpuk (talk) 07:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @HirnSpuk, @Fgnievinski - could you tell me what browser version and device you were using? Thank you!  OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm using Google Chrome on a PC running Windows 10. Fgnievinski (talk) 22:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @OVasileva (WMF), I'm sorry, I don't remember anymore. Might have probably been Desktop-Firefox under Linux which I use mostly. I just tested in Win/Edge. The Problem is there. Standard Configuration, no zoom, middle font. Tested in Chrome, standard-configuration, problem is there. When clicking the given Link, the heading is there for a split second, than the "sticky-header" kicks in and moves over the heading. HirnSpuk (talk) 15:06, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @OVasileva (WMF), I noticed some other weird behavior. When jumping to a specific Heading via special:permanentlink I'm not getting to the paragraph but somewhere below that. Might be related. Compare: b:de:Spezial:Permanentlink/1008062 or b:de:Spezial:Permanentlink/1003322
 * Regards --HirnSpuk (talk) 14:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I am getting this too. Any time a redirect points to a section, the sticky header bar obscures the first line or two of text at the target page, so one has to scroll up to see if it is the right place (uncover the header). It looks like the page is opened at the right place, and then the sticky header is opened on top of it, covering the top text. This must be compensated somehow to correct for the reduced space at the top of the page for visible content but it is nor immediately obvious how it should be done. I am using Firefox latest version on windows 10 on desktop, and windows 11 on laptop. Effect seems to be consistent and repeatable. I notice that this effect does not occur when using the ToC, so it should be fixable by using a similar procedure. I would guess that for the ToC case, the content frame (whatever it is called), is already defined taking the presence of the sticky header frame into account, so the content is rendered after the header is already in place, so the top is not obscured.Pbsouthwood (talk) 05:52, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

This Problem seem to be still there! Does anyone know, if there's already a bug report? HirnSpuk (talk) 15:48, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Confusing: I just tried a second time logged in, with full-width and hidden tools-menu, and it worked for once. Then I popped open the tools menu and switched back to narrow view... After that I logged out. Now it works in every case... Maybe I'll try again and will keep you posted in which configurations it works and in which it doesn't. HirnSpuk (talk) 16:01, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Menu again - Tools-Menu on the right...
doesn't do what it probably should for me. Too big a font and the sections are not discernable enough. I was hoping that this would help the new menu structure, but it doesn't for me.

This page (here, the talk page) is the perfect example for everything I see wrong with the new menu: It's simply a bunch of too narrow text, which is not helpful at all! The "Main Menu" blocks the TOC initially (or is hidden), most of the TOC-Headings have line breaks and show additional information (which seems to be a total overload), scroll bars are partly out of bounds, one doesn't know where the mouse wheel is working right now.

I really doubt, that the usability of the new menu is better than in legacy vector. It doesn't look better (at least not for me), it needs more klicks, it needs more time for reading, everything is gliding/changing/sliding/hiding/autohiding with no distinguishable idea.

Yes I know, all this is probably not a thing while displaying and/or reading encyclopedic content. I think nothing mentioned here is a bug, because I think everything is intended. I just don't see why. Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 15:42, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

PS: As a side note: I just tried to see if I'm liking it better when playing with page zoom and browser-font-size. Spoiler: I don't :-D. I was hoping "just the text" will get smaller (hence at least mitigate the page-break problem), but the whole website did. Well not everything... I don't get it. HirnSpuk (talk) 15:55, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Keyboard shortcut needed to 'User contributions' in Tools menu
I would add that now the 'Tools' menu is to be found in one of two optional positions, and also of variable length across different pages, I find the lack of a keyboard shortcut to view another User's Contributions is most frustrating. It should be a simple fix. For active editors, being able to easily view another users' edits is often more important than seeing one's own. We do have a shortcut for that, and many other less well-used Tools. I also agree with other commenters above that the order of Tool links been very bad for a long time. Not only that, but the lack of visual difference between both the 'Actions' and 'General' headings and the actual Tools links themselves makes the experience of using the tools menu much worse than it needs to be. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:42, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible to change the default skin for a wiki if the community wants to?
Hi! Recently I was reading a Village pump discussion in Armenian Wikipedia and the community wanted to change the default skin for Armenian Wikipedia. Is it even possible assuming we create a separate discussion/poll and there is an overwhelming support for the change? Ashot (talk) 06:46, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @ԱշոտՏՆՂ, thank you for your report, can you add a link to this discussion? Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 07:27, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * HI @Patafisik (WMF). The discussion is here: Special:PermaLink/8613606. It wasn't actually about changing the default design but rather a general survey if people like it. 23artashes asked if it is even possible to change it and I couldn't answer the question :). If it is possible, we will open a new discussion and probably a poll. If the change isn't possible in a Wikimedia project, I would rather avoid the trouble because I'm sure there will be a lot of disagreement :) Ashot (talk) 07:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Ashot, thank you for letting us know. I think in less than two weeks we'll be able to start a discussion with your community on your wiki. In general, we'd like to learn what's not working for those who join the discussion, and why. Perhaps something could be fixed or clarified. Restoring the old skin is not the first option we would like to discuss (of course, we'll give our arguments why). I'm sorry that I wrote "in less than two weeks" - we're working a bit more slowly right now. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:26, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Why is the sidebar on the right side of the page?
Everything was fine in the beginning, but now I'm considering returning to the old vector. Please, PLEASE STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AREN'T BROKEN. Bageense (talk) 03:26, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * That's it. I quit. I was a big fan of the new vector. I was one of only TWO editors [sic] who where using it in the Portuguese Wikipedia. I was there since the very beginning, but now I quit. Bageense (talk) 03:32, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Bageense. Here you can find more information about the Page tools and the reasons to move them to the right side of the page. Thank you. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 08:48, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've got a quick JavaScript hack that I'm hopefully going to be working on over the weekend. To get this to work you'll want to do the following steps:
 * On your home wiki, open your common.js page and insert the following lines of JavaScript
 * Save the page and go to an article or talk page that has a table of contents
 * If your Tools menu is currently on the right hand side of the page, click the Hide button on it
 * And that's it, your tools menu should now appear immediately below the floating table of contents
 * Couple of important things to note.
 * This might only work on enwiki at the moment if the CSS IDs that the JavaScript relies on is localised on each wiki. If that's the case, reach out to me at home wiki talk page, and I'll try and make it work for your wiki.
 * Right now it also only works on pages that have a table of contents. If you open a page, like the edit view, which does not have a table of contents, the tools bar will return to the tools menu dropdown near the top of the page. I'm hopefully going to work on this over the weekend as I've got an idea that should make it appear on any page, but I've not had the time to make the change yet.
 * Any scrolling in a page's main content area, which causes the floating table of contents to jump to the current section you are reading as you scroll up or down through the main content area, will cause the tools menu to move back to the bottom of the floating area on the left side of the page. This is also something I'm going to try and work on over the weekend, if I can figure out the bit of JavaScript that's causing it to do this and figure out how to disable it without breaking everything else.
 * At the moment this is super basic, and just five lines you add to your common.js file. Once I've worked out the major bugs I'll figure out how to make it work with  or   so that I can share and update it if it breaks more easily for anyone who wants it.
 * Otherwise, happy to answer any questions about this here (please ping me if you do as I don't check this wiki often), at my home wiki talk page, or on the Wikimedia Community Discord where you can find me under the username "Sideswipe (she/her)". Hope this helps. Sideswipe9th (talk) 05:23, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * P.S. If the WMF want to take my solution once I get the bugs fixed, and maybe roll it into Vector2022 as a customisable user option, I'm totally down for that. Reach out to me at my home wiki talk page, Discord, or my enwiki email address and I'll happy chat about what I'm doing and what issues I've run into while making it :) Sideswipe9th (talk) 05:25, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But the problem is that the new skin is being constantly modified, so that code can be rendered useless eventually. Once I could disable the sticky header with a code; later, I was no longer able to do that, and I was forced to stick with the header. Bageense (talk) 07:54, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, however I also cannot stand the Tools menu on the right hand side of the page while still otherwise generally liking Vector2022. So I will be maintaining a version of this on my home wiki for as long as I can, as any time that a breaking change happens to the HTML or CSS, I'll be fixing it for at least my own sanity and editing convenience. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, however I also cannot stand the Tools menu on the right hand side of the page while still otherwise generally liking Vector2022. So I will be maintaining a version of this on my home wiki for as long as I can, as any time that a breaking change happens to the HTML or CSS, I'll be fixing it for at least my own sanity and editing convenience. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Why is there no table of contents?
Why? Red Slash (talk) 18:58, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Red Slash. Where do you fail to notice the table of contents? Have you checked perhaps if on the page you're referring to, there's a ToC when using other skins? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Search Box
The worst aspect of this new front page is having to click to open the search box before you can use it. Apart from being a bleeding nuisance, if we assume that the vast majority of users need it when they join the site, consider the bandwidth involved in thousands of unnecessary clicks. 12:17, 12 February 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chevin (User talk:Chevin • Special:Contributions/Chevin) 12:17, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Chevin. The Search box is ready to type-in. Only when the window is under 1000px wide, the Search box is collapsed into a magnifying glass icon that need to be clicked to unfold. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 21:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Possibly my setup then whch saves me eyestrain User:Chevin 08:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Uploads link gone
Commons New Look lacks "Uploads" link


 * 1) Visit https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page logged in.
 * 2) Look for the Uploads link (https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/...

There is none. There should be one.

Sure "Switch to old look".

Anyway, all the emphasis is on Uploading things, but never looking back to see what you uploaded.

In Preferences there is a whole section for Upload Wizard, but no way to get a link to click to see what one already uploaded.

Sure, "Use the browser's bookmarks." Jidanni (talk) 05:47, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Jidanni. Are you still experiencing this? When I go to Commons and use Vector 2022, I see the "Uploads" link. If you don't, please add ?safemode=1 to your URL and then check, and if it's not there, tell me what browser and operating system you're using. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 23:36, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I see it today. Jidanni (talk) 04:53, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Tools-Menu only disappeared from ARwiki
Tools-Menu only disappeared from ARwiki, I just hide it but later I find no trace, or how can I appear Nehaoua (talk) 13:47, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Nehaoua, when the Tool menu is closed, you can open it under the Language button (article pages), on the right of the watchlist icon (the star) see below:

I don't know if it matches your issue. I've notice that styling should be improved locally on arwiki (ex. there is a lack of an icon here, the Page tool shows a scroll bar), it is write different from the layout on frwiki or on itwiki, for exemple. The layour is not bugging with safemode, it should be fixed by an admin on arwiki, or equivalent. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 16:17, 17 February 2023 (UTC) Modified -Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 16:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Nehaoua Page Tools feature is now available on all wikis for logged-in users (T302073). Logged-out users still have tools within the sidebar at the left of the page. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 16:30, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @Patafisik (WMF) when I click in (masquer=أخف) I can't rpere the buton for show again (i find finally this in top of (Outils=أدوات) menu) cordially Nehaoua (talk) 19:06, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Nehaoua, sorry for not naming links in Arabic last time. I updated the screenshots, now they may be more clear. S'il y a quelques choses que je peux faire encore n'hésitez pas à me notifier. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 09:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Patafisik (WMF) merci infiniment, maintenant il est très claire Nehaoua (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Bug - Cursor changes from I-beam pointer to arrow over page title

 * When a page doesn't have a toc or the main menu on the left, you have the arrow when hovering the title with the mouse, so you have to left-click, hold and move the cursor to mark the title.
 * When there is something on the left, like the toc or the expanded main menu you have the I-beam pointer, so you can just triple-click to mark the whole title.
 * Please fix this so users can still quickly copy and paste page titles.
 * Thank you for your work!
 * --KleinerKorrektor (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @KleinerKorrektor. I reported it in this task. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 01:18, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Anchors imprecise
I've been encountering a problem that I think may be caused by New Vector. When I click on the table of contents links at a long page, the place it scrolls to often isn't exactly the thread I clicked on, but rather one or two above or below. Is this a known issue? &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * , Is this on talk pages? Pbsouthwood (talk) 06:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, or project pages that consist of discussions like w:WP:VPR. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 06:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not yet able to reproduce this on w:WP:VPR. What section are you clicking on, and what section is appearing on your screen? Can you provide links to other pages you're seeing this issue on? Also can you provide other potentially relevant details (operating system, browser, browser width, etc.). Also can you check if you can reproduce this in an incognito/private window (append  to the URL). Thanks,  AHollender (WMF) (talk) 05:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried to replicate it in an Incognito window with Vector and couldn't, so maybe it's an extension I'm using. I'll do some further testing and see if I can isolate the issue. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 16:37, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Having paid attention for a few days, the issue seems to occur when I click on notifications from conversations I'm subscribed to, not when I click on a table of contents. I'll follow up with the talk pages project. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 16:32, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Sdkb, thank you for your feedback, are you still experimenting this? I reported your issue here in the talk page of the Topic Subscriptions project, hope this should help. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 16:51, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have been. Thanks! &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know what exactly is causing this for you (I can't reproduce), but I looked into problems with links to sections in Vector 2022 in general, and figured out why they happen and proposed a fix at T330108. Matma Rex (talk) 02:58, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Much thanks, @Matma Rex! That should hopefully fix it! &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 03:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Tewiki:User menu drop down
This is about Tewiki The User menu drop down has the following issues: __Chaduvari (talk) 01:37, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) When page is not scrolled, when the mouse hovers on Contributions menu item, a sub-menu list appears with three links - contribs, translations, uploaded media. When I move the mouse to click any of these three sub-menus, the mouse moves over the tool tip (User menu) and this sub-menu list disappears. It is impossible to click these three sub-menus. When I move the mouse around the tool tip, then, the sub-menu list does not disappear.
 * 2) In the sticky drop down (when the page scrolled down), the sub-menu is not shown at all.


 * Forgot to mention an important point: The behaviour mentioned at point #1 above, is not noticed in enwiki. __Chaduvari (talk) 01:43, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Chaduvari. I was trying to reproduce #1 issue at teewiki, but I was not able to do so (in my case, I can select the sub-menu items). Are you still experiencing it? Thank you. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 00:21, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Chaduvari, indeed I found this related task. Thank you. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 01:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Zapipedia (WMF) Okay, thanks for the link. __Chaduvari (talk) 05:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Bug? Content jumping around
While reading up on Special:Permanentlink/5784366, and wondering, why the communities wish does not seem to be accepted, I found another issue with the toc: The content is "jumping around" because of toc/notoc funcionality. See: w:sw:Wikipedia:Mwongozo, w:sw:Wikipedia:Mwongozo_(Kuhariri) and the other "subpages". To replicate: open the links and narrow the page until content and toc is more or less within window-bounds. Then, when switching the pages, the content "jumps around". HirnSpuk (talk) 18:55, 20 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I think the user means:
 * If you are on a pretty narrow page (sub 1200px but over 700px)
 * If the main menu is collapsed
 * AND the toc is not collapsed
 * AND you are on a page with a ToC
 * AND you navigate to a page without a ToC
 * THEN the content on the page (visually) jumps from being indented ( by toc-width ) to being not indented at all.
 * This might be be unexpected and jarring and messes with your navigation expectations as a user. —Th e DJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 13:43, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Edit source to Tools
Request: Please add "Edit source" to the Tools sidebar. This avoids scrolling. Thanks. Grimes2 (talk) 07:41, 23 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Editing button in the Vector 2022 sticky header.png Hi @Grimes2, what wiki are you trying to edit? On the English Wikipedia, the edit button is available on the sticky header which appears when you scroll down the page, you just have to click on the pencil icon to edit the wikicode. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 09:52, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, problem solved! Can be closed. Grimes2 (talk) 10:12, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Sticky header is not tall enough for a two-line header
The header for logged in users on the Konkani Wikipedia is two lines to accomodate two scripts. When you scroll down, the sticky header is not tall enough for two lines. Should we fix this by modifying the height of the header locally in the css, or should it be fixed globally in the software skin? The Discoverer (talk) 07:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey @The Discoverer, thanks for reporting this. To clarify: does this only happen on the Main page, or on other pages as well? AHollender (WMF) (talk) 14:10, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @AHollender (WMF), It only happens on the main page, because the main page is the only one that is explicitly formatted to be on two lines. On all other pages the headings are shortened using ellipses (...) and do not wrap. The Discoverer (talk) 15:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @AHollender (WMF) / @Patafisik (WMF) / @OVasileva (WMF) / @Zapipedia (WMF): Please could you give some feedback regarding this? The Discoverer (talk) 06:36, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @The Discoverer sorry for the delay. I open this task. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 12:51, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Grazie, @Patafisik (WMF) ! The Discoverer (talk) 18:51, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Enter key is not left click
When I'm finished typing something in the search bar and hit enter, I expect the top result to show up, not the page where my cursor currently rests. If I want to click on a page that's not at the top, I'll just use my mouse or touchpad's left click because that's closer to my fingers. This is a big problem for me as I often use keyboard shortcuts and therefore have to physically move the cursor away in order to search properly. lol1 VNIO 🧧🐈 ( I made a mistake?  talk to me ) (talk) 20:35, 18 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Day two of this problem and I've decided to change back to 2010. lol1 VNIO 🧧🐈 ( I made a mistake?  talk to me ) 20:03, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems this isn't the case anymore. Now I feel more comfortable with V22. lol1 VNIO 🧧🐈 ( I made a mistake?  talk to me ) 10:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Jump to top
Request: Please add "Jump to top" (up arrow) to the top bar, that is displayed by scrolling down. Grimes2 (talk) 11:58, 27 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Grimes2, what are you calling "top bar", do you mean the sticky header? By clicking "beginning" on the ToC you should scroll back to the top of the page. Did you try with the keyboard shortcut (e.g. CTRL + Home, or Command + up-arrow key, or similar)? I also have keyboard keys Begin and End on my keyboard, but I know not all keyboards have. A lot of browser allow an extension like Scroll to Top too. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 13:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Pos1 (up)/Ende (down) works. Thanks Grimes2 (talk) 13:51, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Glad to have helped. I open a task however with a suggestion for a feature. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 14:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Please sort the interwikilinks alphabetically - especially for visitors without an account !
It's been said from some dicussers here already (if you search the discussion arhives related to this

discussion) here in this discussion and i want to stress that this is my point of view, too !

I like switching between articles in German, English, Croatian - and sometimes i want to surprise myself by clicking at an unknown language. Switching with your new created language switch tool is a horror and takes me - an un unregistered user - a very lot longer, compared to the 2010 interface, to find myself the language i want to switch to.

Well I haven't, an I don't think others have (some might, of course) THAT geographic knowledge to guess what language is located in which region. Knowing how a language name is spelled is a very easy thing for me. If I know the alphabet and if I search Croatian, i look at the top of an alphabetical drop-down-list, if i search German, i will look more in the middle of the list, if i search English i scroll from Croation a little more farther down. This is an easy thing. So why did you create these regional blocks ?

So please: Do unlogged users a favour and give them a chance to choose a language list option, that gives them a sorted list as from a to z. Thanks - that would be a great thing ! 188.174.249.250 17:19, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * THoT_-_languages.png
 * Hi
 * the selection of user interface language is only available for logged-in users, who can disable it in their Preferences (at the end of the page, uncheck "Use a compact language list, with languages relevant to you."). For English Wikipedia, the input method contextual menu is disabled by default. Logged-out or anonymous users have already the list in alphabetical order, can you confirm please? When searching, you can just type the Language codes (e.g.,   or  ) and the language will be suggested by the functionality. For more information about the Universal Language Selector please visit the FAQ page. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 08:31, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Search bar doesn't work at the top on Amazon Kindle
For some reason I can't type anything in the search bar at the top in the new skin... 80.6.36.48 20:05, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @80.6.36.48, it is still happening? To be sure to exclude some causes: this answer helps you? If you are already filling the search box with a text and nothing happens: can you give us more details and describe your configuration (browser, browser version, OS) with an example of text you are searching for, and in what wiki it is happening, please? This is happening also when adding  at the end of the URL? This may be useful to reproduce the bug. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 12:29, 27 February 2023 (UTC) modified--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 08:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Custom CSS is not working for the Vector 2022 skin.
I tried editing the Vector 2022 CSS page on Meowpedia (which is currently private due to some technical stuff) but it doesn’t work. How do I get it to work? 2A02:C7C:BD2C:B500:940:A9B3:53AC:5EBC 08:33, 20 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, thank you for your feedback, can you give more details, please? What custom CSS are you trying to use, with a link if available? Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:15, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And what page are you editing.... —Th e DJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 13:45, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for replying 1 day late. The link is right here. Btw, it's a Miraheze wiki despite... UH... yeah. The background behind the article background should be the CSS colour 'papayawhip' on Vector 2022, but sadly I deleted it because it didn't work. 2A02:C7C:BD2C:B500:F5B0:6716:1368:719A 14:20, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply is here. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 09:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

"Reply" button in User talk
Hello. I know that this isn't exactly an issue of skin, but I don't know better place to ask, so: it is possible to turn off a "Reply" button in User talk pages? Once it was seen as default to reply on interlocutor page bcs of notifications, now many new users just click reply on their own talk without even a ping. It disturbs a fluent discussion between editors. --Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 08:05, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I reported your answer here. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It isn't possible to turn it off for other users on your comments. Instead, I would suggest turning on "Automatically subscribe to topics" ("Automatycznie subskrybuj wątki"), so that you will get notifications about replies to your comments even if the other user doesn't add a ping. Or if you really want, you can turn off "Enable quick replying" on the same preferences page, but this will only change how the pages look like to yourself. You can read more about these features at Help:DiscussionTools. Matma Rex (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * --Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 13:48, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

No search suggestions just in Vector-2022
Nothing drops down, as I type. What could be a problem (and solution)? Атомный трамвай (talk) 13:51, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Атомный трамвай, thanks for your feedback. First of all and to be sure to exclude some causes: this answer helps you? If you are already filling the search box with a text and nothing happens: can you give us more details about your configuration (operating system, browser and browser version, screen resolution), and an example of text you are searching for to reproduce the bug, please? This is happening also when adding  at the end of the URL? Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 08:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for attention.
 * The issue you've mentioned doesn't help me at all, because a user there experienced replacing search field with button, and I don't.
 * Firefox 110.0, macOS High Sierra, 1280×800. Also, you can check out it by yourself — https://jantanoo.info, if it reproduced at your env (I sure, it does).
 * Whatever I type in search field, I ain't see a suggestion menu. As it should be shown regardless any text one type, so, I think, no need to mention any specific text I tried to type. And this issue is just about modern Vector — in classic Vector, in Minerva Neue, in all built-in skins there is the dropdown suggestion menu. I wouldn't be surprised if it is because of some incorrect setup — I am not so experienced admin and, for example, I've got a concept of MW's Gadgets just recently (and one of damaged gadget made a huge mess for my wiki and I haven't found a problem too long). And I remember, before I upgraded from MW 1.34.1, there was no this dropdown menu in classic Vector, too. On the other hand, I've made a serious re-install of MW and now it works on classic Vector… Атомный трамвай (talk) 12:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I can reproduce it (Firefox version 110, Windows 10). When I type "т" in the search form on the top, suggestions do not appear. But if I click on the button "search" ("Найти") I arrive on this page. However, using the second search form under "Search results" ("Результаты поиска"), typing "т" I have the search suggest drop-down list. I report this issue and waiting for an answer. The new search functionality is described here. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 14:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, I hope we are able to develop this more perfect way (together)! Атомный трамвай (talk) 07:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Please look at the reply here. An additional information: if I'm not wrong, the first form is using Vue.js while the second one is using CirrusSearch. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 07:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Can we have different font sizes? Because: zooming in firefox makes the toc highlighting not fit to the text

 * In the Wikipedia App such option already exists.


 * On the desktop I use firefox as a webbrowser with a zoom of 120% for all Wikimedia projects.
 * When you scroll inside the text (not the toc) between the section of two headlines, it is like that: the toc highlighting switches, when the section of a headline is at the lower border of that new dynamic bar at the top.
 * But when you zoom with firefox, it does not match.
 * Native implemented font size changing would do the trick I guess.


 * Best Regards --KleinerKorrektor (talk) 10:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @KleinerKorrektor, thanks for your feedback. OVasileva (WMF)'s answer: "In the near future, we're hoping to explore some of this in the new skin - specifically allowing users to configure their font size for the site". A task for increasing the base font-size for article text from 14px to 16px is open too.
 * I will open a new task on Phabricator about your issue, please can you describe your configuration (OS and screen resolution)? It may be useful. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:06, 27 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey Patafisik. Thank you for your reply. My screen resolution is 1920x1200. Webbrowser is firefox-esr 102.8.0esr. I'm on Debian 11 here. Best Regards --KleinerKorrektor (talk) 11:13, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @KleinerKorrektor, are you still experimenting the mismatch between the text title and the table of content title when you zoom? If yes, can you give us an example of page where it is happening? Thank you! Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 08:00, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Bring back the TOC
There are many things about the new 2022 interface that made me a bit uncomfortable on first using it, but in my experience so far the designers have made only one game changer, deal breaker change, by removing a feature I can't give up, so I will stay with the 2010 interface forever if they don't bring that feature back, at least as a user appearance preference. That's their removal of the old inline TOC at the top of the article, of course. The new pop-up sidebar TOC with its floating button is not a static TOC, it's a different feature entirely, innovative and useful in its own way (although the way its floating button always blocks the upper left corner of the page is very visually annoying, and you cannot get it out of the way no matter what you do by repositioning the page). But no matter -- that's not the deal-breaker. The pop-up sidebar TOC, whether you like it or not, isn't a TOC at the beginning of the article, which has been the signature appearance of every Wikipedia article since time immemorial.

When you open a Wikipedia article you expect to see a lede (like the abstract of a research article), followed by a table of contents showing the structure and organization of the article, giving you an instant idea of whether this article is 1 or 100 pages long, and how developed it is. As you refer to the article again and again over time, you will probably depart from that TOC to places you have discovered within the article again and again, your body developing a kind of muscle memory for the way the space inside the article branches out from the top. Your mind is learning the geometry of part of the vast space that is Wikipedia. The TOC at the top of every article illustrates one local part of that space. The TOC is the article editors' best attempt to choose a geometry for that subject that makes sense. It is editor-written content, artistry, not merely a generated index or search results; in fact it is the most important content in the article, after the lede. Sometimes it's all you read of an article (the lede and the TOC), and it tells you that you don't need to know any more. It can be collapsed or expanded, as suits your personal need of it, but surely it should not be entirely hidden in an always-collapsed pop-up sidebar.

The designers should fix this flaw in the new interface by simply bringing back the static TOC exactly as it is in the 2010 interface. The pop-up sidebar displaying the TOC can remain too, just don't display its floating button until the display is scrolled down to below the static TOC. It would also be a diplomatic policy decision (a no-brainer, really) to provide a user appearance preference for a static TOC, a pop-up TOC, or both. Dc.samizdat (talk) 21:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I prefer also the TOC in 2010 interface. --Ensahequ (talk) 02:22, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah I agree, I like the static Table of Contents at the top of the article, I don't want to have to start scrolling to find the TOC so I can skip to the particular section of an article that I want to read. B 897 (talk) 04:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I want to add my full support to bringing back the classic ToC. The new sticky ToC can coexist with the classic one instead of replacing. I think each serve different purposes and could be complementary. I also made similar comments in the w:Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rollback of Vector 2022#Bring back the TOC. Thank you. Al83tito (talk) 05:43, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Not to say its old good numbering scheme, now lost. No matter where the TOC appears, it should retain the numbering scheme. 37.134.90.176 07:55, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I spent many minutes trying to figure out why the article I was editing had no TOC -- I went as far as asking on the Discord why the article was broken, trying to add a template, etc. Could have instead used that time to contribute. I agree that the old ToC takes up a lot of space but the new treatment is too radical a change. Mrflip (talk) 20:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

I can't find a page's table of contents
As the subject says. I managed to spot a table of contents once with the new layout, but now I can't find it any more.

I wanted to share a link to a section, but I can't even do that, because the only links provided directly at section headers are edit links. GunChleoc (talk) 10:54, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @GunChleoc. Thank you for letting us know about this issue. How wide is your screen? I mean the resolution. If it's large enough, you'll see the ToC on the left side (option 1). If it's narrower, it's a button at the upper left corner of the screen (option 2). It may also be in the header if it's pinned (option 3).
 * Is this helpful? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Is this helpful? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:35, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Different looks in different Situations
I would have expected, that the look is consistent between Legacy and V22. It seems not to be. The pages all look different, depending, if you are logged in/out, which "project" you are on and what "dynamic buttons" you have clicked (width, hide, pin...). Is this really intended behaviour? The biggest issue I'm startled by is the different behaviour of the same skin while logged in and out (different menu, different font-size, different behaviour, different spacing). HirnSpuk (talk) 16:11, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @HirnSpuk. Some of this is intended. For example, right now, logged-out users don't see the sticky header or the page tools menu. But I think font-size or spacing isn't intended. Perhaps what you saw was caused by cache, and not our intended design. Would you be able to give specific examples of differences you didn't expect? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF), sorry, Special:Diff/5778578/5779099, expecially Special:Diff/5779099/next and last but not least Special:Diff/5816368/5817068. I think the looks should be consistent at least in one project. The look (AND the feel as well) depend on window-width, screen-resolution, login-state, button-clicks, hover-buttons, personal configurations... I'm not able to give examples, it's the whole page. Just play with the window-size on different resolutions in wpen logged in and out and you'll hopefully get it. I'd recommend using a FHD-Display with standard-configuration. Use case: I often resize the window regarding the task I'm doing, I regularly log on and off on different projects, I use different resolution monitors... Regards HirnSpuk (talk) 16:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Fresh from Tewiki
Noticed this in Tewiki - the link to add inter-language links disappeared. The drop down list has only two links- "Translate this page" and "Open language settings". __Chaduvari (talk) 01:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Chaduvari. Could you please share a page in which this issue is happening? Does it happen in all the pages? Thank you. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 21:29, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Zapipedia (WMF),
 * Tewiki_Langlinks_screenshot_Vector2022-21Feb2023.png You can see this issue on సిపాయి సుబ్రమణ్యం page. The issue is also noticed in Wikipedia:, Template:, Module: and Category: namepaces too (didn't check the other namespaces). In these namespace pages, only "Open language settings" link is there; "Translate this page" link is not shown. The adjacent screenshot shows the Main space page. Thanks. __Chaduvari (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Chaduvari. Thank you. I think there are more than one issue here. Regarding the link to add interwiki links appears now, but perhaps it wasn't appearing temporarily? We've been working on the styling of this link. Anyway, for me now, it shows up in the "General" menu. Do you still experience this issue?
 * Regarding the "Translate this page" link in non-content namespaces such as Template or Module, it's by design, because the tool inviting to translate the page is only designed to translate content. But there may be some bugs about it. For details, see T316559.
 * Was my answer helpful? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF), I see the "Add interlanguage links" in the general menu (on the right sidebar) now. Thanks. __ Chaduvari (talk) 06:35, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Lack of left border
I tried giving Vector 2022 a shot, but the lack of any kind of border or even a change in the background colour between the text and the whitespace to the left of it is a big problem for me. It is difficult to explain, but I felt something similar to strong sense of vertigo when I started reading text after a certain point.

I identified the cause as the emptiness in the left space after you scroll far enough down. It is alright at the top, since the off-colour background of the sidebar serves the role as a border, however, there's nothing in that space once you scroll further down. This issue isn't present in Vector 2010 because it has an explicit border in addition to a different background colour beyond said border.

Oddly, the feeling of vertigo is greatly reduced with the narrow mode, likely due to the whitespace being balanced on the right side, and there being an eventual change in the background colour. However, I highly dislike the narrow mode, so I wouldn't want to use that even without the vertigo. JAK0723 (talk) 05:18, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I completely agree, expanding the view and collapsing the floating menus (because i 1. dont want the TOC on my screen at all times since it creates unnecessary visual noise, 2. am not an active editor so i dont need that tools section), looks like a barren css-less html webpage, no borders, no consistent spacing, the lines between headers starting and ending in random places... vertigo is exactly how i would describe it. looking back and forth from monobook to this mess, monobook feels way more defined and grounded, you can always find where the page begins, estimate the indentation by eye... this is autism speaking but its true. 147.32.90.103 01:44, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, I completely agree! I'm sad-but-glad to read that it's not just me that finds this a very real and very significant irritation. I had already commented about this exact problem in an earlier discussion further up the page, but just repeating here again to add to the comment/vote count: From an accessibility perspective the biggest loss for me is the lack of that good contrast and vertical line separator between the left hand menu and the main content area: now all just an endless sea of indistinguishable searing white, and, when I am reading, without those subtle but essential separation cues (and with an excess of horizontal whitespace that doesn't have the needed tight margins to even remotely work as a "newspaper column" substitute), my eye is irreversibly drawn to the left hand edge of the window at the end of Every Single Line, causing a real 'low level' brain 'glitch' in trying to read. Ugh! --Davecykl (talk) 22:40, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Nowy prototyp. Wizualne oddzielenie części interfejsu
Cześć wszystkim!

Analizowaliśmy opinie edytorów na temat układu strony. Przeczytaliśmy komentarze, którymi wolontariusze podzielili się tutaj, jak również na RfC na angielskiej Wikipedii, w Kawiarenkach, na innych stronach wiki, Phabricatorze, jak również na spotkaniach online. Oto nasze aktualizacje dotyczące tej pracy. Chcieliśmy rozpocząć rozmowę na temat dalszej poprawy układu.

Informacje zwrotne na temat białych pól

Obecnie w Vectorze 2022 jest dużo białych pól służących oddzieleniu różnych części interfejsu. Do tego tło strony (poza obszarem z treścią) jest białe. Podzieliliście się dwojakimi wątpliwościami:


 * 1) uwagami dotyczącymi wyraźniejszego wizualnego oddzielenia części interfejsu. Zastanawialiście się, czy poprawiłoby to czytelność. Głównie dałoby to:
 * 2) * większe skupienie/uwagę na treści strony (zamiast patrzenia na interfejs jako na całość, a następnie skupiania się na treści)
 * 3) * ułatwienie skupienia się na treści podczas czytania, ponieważ obszar treści byłby lepiej zdefiniowany (niektórzy z was zgłaszali, że podczas czytania rozpraszał ich spis treści);
 * 4) uwagami dotyczącymi zmiany koloru tła poza obszarem treści na szary. Zastanawialiście się, czy zmniejszyłoby to zmęczenie oczu, którego niektórzy doświadczają z powodu dużego białego obszaru na większych ekranach.
 * 5) * Wielu z was zgłaszało, że biała przestrzeń ma zbyt wysoki kontrast i że dodanie ciemniejszego odcienia, takiego jak szary, zmniejszy to obciążenie.

Prototyp – proponowane zmiany i wady tych rozwiązań Na podstawie tego, jak również informacji dotyczących kolejnych wersji skórki, przygotowaliśmy ten prototyp. (T259240) Jest to propozycja potencjalnych zmian. Zmiany prezentowane w prototypie to:
 * 1) dodanie ramek zarówno wokół obszaru treści, jak i spisu treści (a także innych menu). Naszą hipotezą jest to, że ramki mogą pomóc w zrozumieniu struktury interfejsu. Ułatwiłyby również skupienie się na treści (zarówno przy pierwszym załadowaniu strony, jak i podczas czytania). Zauważ, że możesz przypiąć menu Narzędzia (Tools) za pomocą rozwijanej listy po prawej stronie,
 * 2) zmiana koloru tła strony na szary. Nasza hipoteza jest taka, że powinno to pomóc zmniejszyć zmęczenie oczu, którego niektórzy doświadczają. Sprawi to też, że obszar treści i spis treści będą bardziej przyciągały uwagę.

Skłaniamy się ku konfiguracji, która zawiera białe tło nagłówka, obramowania, a także obramowane menu.

Jednak wiąże się to z pewnymi wadami. Ta konfiguracja wpływa na szerokość treści. Konkretnie:
 * zmniejsza szerokość treści w porównaniu do obecnej wersji w przypadku, gdy otwarte jest menu narzędzi strony (to po prawej),
 * zwiększa szerokość treści, gdy menu narzędzi strony jest zamknięte, w porównaniu z bieżącą szerokością.

Nasi designerzy pracują nad ograniczeniem skutków tego zjawiska. Dostosowują niektóre odstępy, co w najbliższych dniach znajdzie odzwierciedlenie w prototypie.

Testowanie

Na kolejnym etapie chcielibyśmy zaproponować eksperyment lub serię eksperymentów, które mogą potwierdzić powyższe hipotezy. Naszym celem jest określenie, czy aktualizacja układu w ten sposób poprawi doświadczenia czytelników i edytorów. Mamy kilka różnych możliwości w tym zakresie. Na razie rozważamy następujące:
 * 1) Badania jakościowe – przeprowadzenie testów użytkowników poprzez wywiady z czytelnikami i edytorami. Testy te miałyby na celu określenie, czy łatwiej jest skupić się na treści i czy nowe tło zmniejsza zmęczenie oczu,
 * 2) Testy A/B – przeprowadzenie testu A/B na zalogowanych użytkownikach, gdzie przeanalizowalibyśmy kluczowe wskaźniki projektu, porównując obecny układ z poprzednim. W szczególności: odsetek rezygnacji ze skórki, liczbę odsłon, edycji, długości sesji, wykorzystania spisu treści i przewijania strony. Ze względu na ograniczenia techniczne i ochronę prywatności nie możemy przeprowadzić testów A/B na użytkownikach niezalogowanych. Oznacza to, że będziemy używać zachowania zalogowanych użytkowników jako czegoś podobnego do zachowania wszystkich użytkowników. Jeśli zostanie wybrany nowy układ, porównamy kluczowe wskaźniki (przed i po zmianie) wśród wszystkich użytkowników.

Niektórzy z was wspomnieli o zrobieniu ankiety, w której zapytalibyśmy użytkowników o to, który układ wolą. Badania opinii mogą być przydatne, ale nie sądzimy, żeby były najlepszym narzędziem do oceny użyteczności. Nie uważamy, aby tego typu ankieta dała nam informacje, których potrzebujemy, aby potwierdzić lub odrzucić dwie główne hipotezy zaprezentowane powyżej.

Nasze pytania do was

Jesteśmy ciekawi, czy uważacie, że powyższa lista brzmi sensownie. Jeśli nie – czy macie jakieś inne pomysły na ewaluację? Szukamy pomysłów na zmierzenie, czy nowy układ pomaga w oddzielenia treści od reszty interfejsu i zmniejszeniu zmęczenia oczu.

Poza oceną wspomnianą powyżej, opinie naszych społeczności również odgrywają dużą rolę w ustalaniu, jakie zmiany są najlepsze. Co sądzicie o prototypie?

Dziękujemy! OVasileva (WMF), SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 22:55, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Podoba mi się nowy prototyp, znacznie bardziej niż obecny wygląd Vectora 22. Moim zdaniem strona jest znacznie bardziej czytelna i przejrzysta niż obecnie.
 * Zdecydowanie popieram opcję Framed menus – poza możliwością skupienia się na treści, ułatwione jest z nią także znalezienie odpowiedniego narzędzia (najpierw kierujemy kursor nad wyraźną ramkę, dopiero potem skupiamy się na szczegółach). Całość – moim zdaniem – wygląda bardziej schludnie i elegancko (zarówno przy przypiętym jak i odpiętym prawym polu Narzędzia): Wyraźnie widać odstęp od górnego paska, równy dla wszystkich elementów. Delikatnie ciemniejszy kolor linii wyraźnie rozgranicza treść i narzędzia od tła – choć uważam, że jeszcze większe grono zwolenników zyskałby wariant z tą linią w błękitnym kolorze ze starego Vectora (albo może wokół treści błękit, a przy innych polach – szarość?).
 * Jednym słowem – jest to skórka, którą ustawiłbym jako domyślną (czego nie mogę powiedzieć o obecnym wyglądzie V22).
 * Nie wiem tylko, jak miałoby wyglądać pole edycji (kod!). Zakładam, że byłoby po prostu polem edycji wyświetlonym w miejscu treści artykułu (i takie rozwiązanie wydaje mi się najlepsze).
 * Nie wiem czy celowo zniknęły poziome linie pod tytułami sekcji (?) (u mnie ich w każdym razie nie widać) – uważam, że dobrze wygląda jak są w tamtym miejscu. Tak samo „rozjeżdża mi się” formatowanie obrazków, zakładam że zostałyby w takiej formie jak teraz.
 * Myślę, że w celu zaoszczędzenia miejsca można zmniejszyć nieco szerokość spisu treści (podobnie jak dzieje się na tej stronie po kliknięciu przycisku w prawym dolnym rogu).
 * Zaznaczam, że nie czytałem wszystkich komentarzy w anglojęzycznej wersji dyskusji, więc nie wiem czy nie powielam czyichś opinii.
 * Z mojej strony to chyba wszystko – Pyrlandczyk (talk) 08:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Jeśli chodzi o sam wygląd, to szary naokoło oczywiście pomaga w skupieniu i zmniejsza natężenie białego... No i oczywiście wolę taką wersję. Oczywiście, bo takiej wersji z szarym używam od roku jak pewnie wiesz Szymonie :-) w:pl:Wikipedysta:Nux/Fixed top bar.css.
 * Ostatnio zacząłem się zastanawiać nad tym czy narzędzia i spis treści powinny mieć białe tło. W tej chwili mam duży, biały spis treści z boku i w sumie to trochę mi przeszkadza... Powoli dochodzę do wniosku, że może za bardzo odciąga mój wzrok ten biały. Nux (talk) 09:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * tak, dlatego preferuję nową propozycję z nieaktywną opcją "Framed menus", talk jak to opisałem powyżej w dyskusji en (i zilustrowałem w File:Vector 2022 Zebra9 prototype with frameless menus logged-in.png). Zdzislaw (talk) 10:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Podoba mi się, że domyślnie menu są poukrywane (przy małej rozdzielczości, której używam). (Szare) Ramki - spis treści oraz sam artykuł (bez widocznych menu) "ładniej" wygląda z ramkami (ale to może być przyzwyczajenie do starej skórki wektor). Z przypiętym menu Tools brak ramek wokół artykułu (i menu Tools) już tak mocno mnie nie razi. MarMi wiki (talk) 12:35, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Mnie interesuje czy będzie opcja scalenia lewego i prawego menu w jedno. Obecnie w pl.wikt zarówno w lewym jak i w prawym mam często używane opcje (w lewym np. ostatnie zmmiany, w prawym np. wkład użytkownika albo linkujące) więc nie mogę tych menu schować ale jednocześnie ponieważ są po przeciwległych stronach ekranu muszę co chwila wykonywać długie posunięcia kursorem na touchpadzie. Jest to szalenie nieergonomiczne. Poza tym obecna implementacja prawego menu jest (przynajmniej w pl.wikt) kolidująca z układem stron np. tutaj https://i.postimg.cc/GtXxR7Kz/Screenshot-2023-03-05-04-34-05.png albo tutaj https://i.postimg.cc/Wp8BtsfY/Screenshot-2023-03-05-04-43-30.png - wygląda to fatalnie. Proszę o sprawdzenie czy w dyskutowanej tu nowej odsłonie będzie tak nadal. KaMan (talk) 18:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @KaMan tak, ten podział zostanie już tak jak jest. Podział na menu główne i menu narzędziowe jest celowy. Z nielicznymi wyjątkami menu po prawej powinno dotyczyć bieżącej strony, a menu głównej ma funkcje dotyczące całej witryny.
 * Co do tych zrzutów, to właściwie jest problem z treścią. Jeden z wielu problemów z szablonami i tabelkami, które są za duże na wąskim ekranie. Jak używasz skórki V'22 na wąskim ekranie, to lepiej mieć schowane przynajmniej jedno z menu (lewe lub prawe menu), albo w ogóle oba. Mi się na laptopie wygodnie pracuje ze zwiniętą lewą stroną (zwijam menu i spis treści).
 * Jeśli ten układ menu nie pasuje do Twojego stylu pracy, to zawsze możesz zmienić skórkę na starego Vectora. Jakby co możesz zrobić to globalnie: Special:GlobalPreferences (to jest dla wszystkich projektów Wikimediów). Nux (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nux: skórka Timeless automatycznie zwija szerokie tabelki z użyciem JS, tj. nadaje im poziomy scroll . Czy jest szansa, by domyślnie Vector 2022 też miał taką możliwość? Peter Bowman (talk) 23:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Peter Bowman O, ciekawe. Trochę hack, ale wygląda na to, że skuteczne. Myślę, że można by na phabie zgłosić coś takiego. Nie żebym znał wszystkie zgłoszenia, ale nie kojarzę, żeby coś takiego było omawiane. Ten konkretny przypadek KaMana działa całkiem przyzwoicie Timeless: Słownik z szablonem z literkami, Wiktionary (testowałem na Firefox, CTRL+SHIFT+M).
 * W sumie to że oba menu przeskakują na lewo na wąskim ekranie, to też wygląda na dobry pomysł... Myślę, że jest szansa, że po zrobieniu docelowej Zebry #9 będzie łatwiej coś takiego zrobić (o ile będzie zachowany układ z prototypu)... Nux (talk) 23:20, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Special pages and upload
I was just looking for a link to special pages on another wiki and noticed it was in the page's tools menu. My mind has already shifted to the idea that the right side is for page specific tools and the left (main) menu is for general, site wide links.

There are currently two default links that are in the wrong place (at least in my mind):
 * Upload file.
 * Special pages.

I think these links should go to the main menu. Alternatively, you could also create a new section in the tools menu. But that would break the division into page and general actions.

Or is current placement only weird for me? 😅 Nux (talk) 13:03, 11 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The (un)logical division of menu's is a known problem and on the todo list, but as these menu's are shared between all the skins, splitting them up and making them more logical without breaking other skins is a complex operation that will take some time. There is a ticket about this somewhere.... —Th e DJ (Not WMF) (talk • contribs) 10:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @TheDJ for this clear and concise answer, @Pequod76 was talking about this issue few weeks ago on itwiki. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 16:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)