Talk:Reading/Web/Projects/Related pages/Draft RFC

Alsee, thank you so much for starting this RFC. I am a bit worried that this is too broad isn't exactly clear what is the issue that we are tackling with the feature --is it generally the path forward for related pages? In addition, the feature is still in testing phase, and the beta nature on desktop that only allows logged in users to test the feature, which does already exclude most readers, to whom this feature is directed. I believe Related pages, could be of great value to new Wikipedias and smaller ones, while our only-English conversation and RFC is only making it difficult to engage different voices (it takes time to drive wider engagement). While I am not opposing the idea of the RFC, I am a bit uncertain about the specifics of what we can achieve from it, I also wonder if you think that this is something that we can replicate for further features? Or we should better explore ways that allow early engagement in ideation phase? Again, thank you very much for putting together this document. Thanks.--Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 14:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC) Update: Can we change the Request for Comments, into a Request for Features? Might be a new approach towards digging deep into how to make the best use of what seems to have potential for both readers and editors? A new kind of engagement for product decisions. Before boldly moving with renaming, what do you think  Alsee. --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on your edits I have a better idea what you have in mind. The most common and easiest RFC's are a basic Support/Oppose on a proposal. The first reaction of most editors is going to be to !vote on whether they want it deployed or not. I'm going to put some thought into a significant restructuring. Alsee (talk) 18:07, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Phew, I am glad we don't have a misunderstanding Alsee :), this experiment will be very helpful in shaping the way how we discuss and decide on products in a more collaborative and progressive manner. Thanks again! --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Question. As I noted, the first thought of a lot of people will be whether they want it or not. Lets assume for the moment that the reception is very positive. If people think "looks great, we formally approve deployment now".... do you want to invite or exclude that? Alsee (talk) 19:28, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hey Alsee, so, we did announcements around the work on this specific feature since October. We got different community members from different Wikipedias engaged in the conversation on the talk page of the extension, whether by highlighting issues (fair use images, for example), asking questions (how the algorithm works), discussing the logic of the feature (see also, and related pages), and asking for specific tweaks. Why do we want to get back to square zero, if the conversation is already way ahead of this? Community rejection doesn't need an rfc to express itself. It clarifies itself since day one.  In our case here, imo, we are not in a situation of asking whether this feature is wanted or not, but we are at a stage where after initial engagement and tackling specific issues, we need to move forward, in a way that makes the product well tailored for our editing community, and educational enough for our readers.  Makes sense?   :) --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 21:12, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Melamrawy, please please please stop doing that. During the Gather discussions you said an RFC "wasn't needed", then made a second comment that we shouldn't have one. I don't know if you realize it, but that was a big reason people got upset and started the RFC without waiting for the WMF response. Due to past tensions, particularly Superprotect, a lot of people are hypersensitive to anything that sounds like the WMF doesn't want to hear Consensus.
 * People are also hypersensitive to anything that sounds like the only option is to "move a project forward" like an unstoppable train. In your edit here you effectively said the Reading team DOESN'T want to know whether we consider this a valuable addition to enable (by your deletion of that text). You instead inserted the phrase "roll out" and TWICE said the only thing you wanted to hear was how to "move forward" with the project. I deliberately removed those phrases to avoid anyone interpreting them in the worst possible way, to prevent triggering unnecessary hostility.
 * If we are "already way ahead of this" and "Community rejection doesn't need an rfc to express itself", then you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by an RFC. The community feels respected, anyone who doesn't like the feature will know it was deployed by Consensus rather than "imposed" by the WMF, it will build trust in the WMF, and it will help heal old wounds.
 * If an RFC does reject it, Jkatz said "I see no reason why we should push on these wikis if they don't want it". You'll also be able to see why people opposed it, and if appropriate there can be further WMF-Community discussions. WP:CCC: Consensus Can Change. Alsee (talk) 23:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)