Summary:Talk:New Page Patrol Zoom Interface/New page PATROLLERS

We seem to  have examined some core issues here, in  particular, but  there has been no further dicussion  now for a month. In the meantime there has been a major issue concerning  the Global ,Education  programme that  has resulted in  a huge and sudden overload for pager patrollers -  issues that  have needed serious intervention  (copyvio) by  our most  experienced users and admins. New phases of the India Education Programme are to  take place soon  with  another challenge activity  for experienced patrollers.

Summary of the discussion below
"New Page Patroll attracts the newest, least mature, and least experienced of all users who do not understand the principles involved, and who do ot read the instructions."
 * - Kudpung

"For example, it would be possible to allow any registered user to perform proposed NPP actions, but to require sign-off by an experienced patroller, who could leave quick feedback for the new patroller and ultimately promote the user to have the same permission-set. In that way, the experienced NPP pool could scale significantly faster than through more conventional user right promotion processes relying exclusively on an editor's prior track record."
 * - Eloquence

"We don't have an 'experienced NPP pool'. We have - according to the research and stats that has already carried out since October 2010 by Snottywong, Blade, and myself - a vast army of occasional, extremely inexperienced patrollers who appear to ignore all attempts to educate them, and a just a handful of experienced editors much of whose work is cleaning up after the other patrollers."
 * - Kudpung

"I don't think a change to the interface will materially change the quality of NPP. As I have said elsewhere, nothing short of a hard restriction (this applies both to article creation and to being allowed to do NPP) will get anything done."
 * - The Blade of the Northern Lights

"Websites that are infamous for their trolling have managed to solve this problem without even disabling anonymous contribution, and have been doing so for over a decade. Most such sites have a system for giving moderation privileges only to people who are deemed trustworthy (via some impartial metric). I think such a metric is a reasonable thing for us to have, but we have to address these problems in the right order so as to avoid overwhelming anyone."
 * - Raindfrift


 * Reduce the time and effort required to learn the necessary information.
 * Increase the amount of time people are willing to invest, by making NPP feel more rewarding overall, or by making it feel more *rewarding further back on the learning curve.
 * Increase specialization, such that each individual needs to learn fewer things to be effective.
 * - Raindrift

"...develop this idea of a screencast one very big stage further, and and make a video tutorial for NPP. Now, that might be a way of at least being sure that they would 'read' the instructions. [...] Nevertheless, all solutions for NPP whatever they are, still look as if we're not going to escape the stick 'n carrot of making it a user right, and at the same time, we must develop some ideas to boost new-user retention..."
 * - Kudpung

"I'm very leery of creating a Priesthood of Article Gatekeepers. User rights are not things that should simply be created just because they can be. I'm also opposed to making the process more complicated - which is what additional rights always do."
 * - Jorm

"... a user right might have the added benefit of creating a (likely temporary) increase in the number of patrollers, since there are a lot of user right whores out there who will be clambering for the latest badge....."
 * - Snottywong

"Maybe we have a user right - pagepatroller - but instead of it being granted to you by a Magical Wizard, you'll automatically earn it over time. It can still be taken away from you, though - which will set you back to step 1. [...] What I'm trying to avoid is a situation where there's a whole level of bureaucracy that a potential patroller has to go through before they can start (another "RfA" type process). We should be open with letting people into the door, but be able to push them back out if need be."
 * - Jorm

"I feel like this is becoming unnecessarily complicated. I'm certainly not envisioning an "RfA" type process for handing out pagepatroller user rights. [...] I'm envisioning something like:
 * Account has more than 500 edits
 * Account is more than 3 months old
 * If pagepatroller user right has been revoked in the past, require an explanation for how previous problems have been addressed [...] it should be handled like all other uncontroversial user rights are handled, like w:Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback or w:Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Confirmed. We would just set up another Request for permissions subpage like w:Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Pagepatroller, and anyone can ask for the permission there."
 * - Snottywong

"We should be looking at ways to retain potential good (and perhaps young) new editors rather than piss them off entirely. As SW says, a user right can easily be revoked without much ado. Whether user rights, like adminship, are a big deal or not, they give people a sense of responsibility and the desire to do a better job."
 * - Kudpung

Conclusions

 * Development of Zoom  needs to  be accelerated.
 * The possibility of making NPP  a user right  needs to  be examined more closely. Not every one is in  favour of a user right. Some have suggested a two-tier patrolling  system. A user right  would would need to  be established by  local  consensus. *There may  be a heavy  consensus against  from  the patrollers themselves, and other inexperienced editors who  do not  wish  to need to be qualified to  do  NPP. There may  not  be sufficient  workforce from  experienced users to  mentor  new/younger/inexperienced editors, and to effect  a double new page policing  system.
 * A tutorial has been suggested in  the form  of a training  video.