User talk:AKlapper (WMF)

 Dear, Welcome to MediaWiki.org !

Yes, welcome! This site is dedicated to documenting the MediaWiki software, the software behind many wikis, including that of Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation projects.

Please, take a look at the following pages. They might prove useful to you as a newcomer here:
 * Landing instructions
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If you have any questions, please ask me on my talk page. Once again, welcome, and I hope you quickly feel comfortable here, and find this site useful documentation of the MediaWiki software. Thanks, and regards, --MZMcBride (talk) 04:48, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Groups/Proposals/Bug Squad
Hi. A few users have expressed interest in Wikimedia's Bugzilla installation here: Groups/Proposals/Bug Squad. I wonder if it would make sense to create a mailing list that could be auto-CC'd on new Bugzilla-related bugs in Wikimedia's bug tracker (i.e., add a default CC similar to "bug-squad@lists.wikimedia.org" for bugs filed in Product: Wikimedia --> Component: Bugzilla). Thoughts? --MZMcBride (talk) 04:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking of a mailing list for "soft" topics that are related to Bugzilla and bug management (and maybe even QA to go broader), but I have a feeling that there's too many mailing lists already. Bugzilla tickets in Bugzilla can be anything from technical "the SSL attachment redirect is broken" or "add component foo to product bar" which is only interesting for admins to workflow/social issues, so stuff should be diverse enough that it might not be interesting for the audience. But I guess I should work again on adding the "ComponentWatching" extension to Bugzilla so anybody can get the bugmail for any Bugzilla component. Need a proper test environment (Labs) for that first though, so postponed to second quarter of this year. :-/ --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:41, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project_talk:WikiProject_Bug_Squad or https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Bug_management might be good places to discuss Bugzilla related stuff and get more opinions, instead of my personal talk page. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello! Anacleto João Manuel (talk) 21:33, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Just testing with my second account
Just testing with my second account

Special Page Question
As far as you know, is it possible in a couple of special pages in it:voy (User list and Active user list), to add another ordering criteria, specifically: edit numbers? --Andyrom75 (talk) 11:01, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'd recommend to ask either on the MediaWiki Support Desk or on the Technical Village Pump of Wikipedia. There are lots of people that know way more than I do. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:26, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Log in
Hallo Andre,

wg. de:Wikipedia:Fragen_zur_Wikipedia: kommt da noch was? Ist das weitergeleitet worden? Gerade die Problematik beim Interwikilink in Data ergänzen ist für mich unverständlich, denn vor der Log-in-Umstellung hatte ich keine solch gearteten Schwierigkeiten. Beim Lesen auf Commons kam heute auch aus heiterem Himmel das Hinweisfenster, ich wäre jetzt angemeldet - da hatte ich aber schon lange fleißig meine Beo und die Neuzugänge studiert. --PigeonIP (talk) 13:48, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi PigeonIP, ka, da ist gerade noch etwas gekommen. War aber auch erst weniger als 24h her, dass ich dadrauf kommentiert hatte. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:07, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Danke dir. Ich werd den bug aber nicht schreiben, weil auf Bugzilla wird von mit eine Neuanmeldung erwartet - finde ich unmöglich oder überflüssig, weil ich habe ja schon einen SUL-Account - und zum anderen kann ich kein eloquentes Englisch, um dieses Problem adäquat darzustellen.
 * Das Problem des separaten Logins wird in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14487 behandelt - da wird sich leider in den naechsten sechs Monaten erstmal nichts dran aendern, aber es gibt zumindest einige Ideen das mal anzugehen. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 2008?!?!?! dass lässt doch dieses "wir brauchen mehr input" in einem ganz anderen Lichte erscheinen. Damit hast du mich grade echt geschockt. Und wozu braucht man explizit eine öffentlich einsehbare e-mail-adresse? --PigeonIP (talk) 19:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Das Alter von Bugs sagt meiner Meinung nach nichts aus. Man braucht eine E-Mail-Adresse, weil Bugzilla Ende der 90er Jahre so entwickelt wurde und es seitdem keiner gefixt hat. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:49, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Und jetzt bitte nicht falsch verstehen, aber genau dieses "trag es doch auf Bugzilla" (hatte ich auch schon anderen Fällen, wo ich gerne Feedback geben wollte) trägt zu dem Bild der WMF/Entwickler im Elfenbeinturm bei, die sich ihre Aufgaben/Probleme/Bugs auf dem Silbertablett präsentiert und aufbereitet dargereicht bekommen wollen, anstatt selber mal in der Küche vorbeizuschauen und den Teller dort abzuholen.
 * Es gibt so einige WMF-Entwickler die recht aktiv in den Foren und VillagePumps sind, andere eher weniger. Ich denke das ist recht normal mit Individuen. Eine generelle Elfenbeinturm-Mentalitaet kann ich nicht beobachten, es ist aber wahrscheinlich das bestimmte Foren interessanter sind fuer bestimmte Entwickler als andere, und man muss sich die Zeit auch einteilen. Zudem gibt es auch einige WMF-Leute und viele Community-Mitglieder die in Foren berichtete Probleme in den Bugzilla uebertragen. Ich mache das auch gerne, nur muss ich dann zumindest faehig sein, den Fehler zu reproduzieren (auch um Nachfragen im Bugzilla beantworten zu koennen), und das ist speziell hier "leider" bisher nicht der Fall, daher meine Anfrage ob das jemand erledigen koennte. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ich habe ja auch nicht gesagt, dass diese Mentalität besteht, nur dass beim Otto-Normal-Autoren, der sich nicht im IRC und in Mailinglisten herumtreibt, weil er mit der eigenen Beo genug auf dem Schirm hat, dieser Eindruck entstehen kann.
 * Dein Nicht-Bug-Eintrag wegen fehlender Reproduzierbarkeit ist verständlich. --PigeonIP (talk) 19:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Das ist wie im Restaurant (wir drehen das Bild mal um): der Koch arbeitet in der Küche (Entwickler im Bugzilla/MediaWiki/weiß der Geier), der Gast sitzt im Restaurant (der Autor in seinem Projekt). Jeder hat sich in seinem Bereich gut eingerichtet und ist mit einer Schwingtür vor dem anderen abgeschottet, damit sie sich nicht sehen müssen. Entweder hat es jeder der Beiden zu bequem und sie sollten in und an eine Imbissbude, bzw. auf beide Seiten einer Durchreiche/eine Theke, gestellt werden, oder es fehlt der Kellner.
 * Bitte nicht persönlich nehmen und tut mir leid, wenn du jetzt als Blitzableiter herhalten musstest, aber das musste eben auch mal raus. --PigeonIP (talk) 14:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. Ich mag diese offenen Restaurants, wo ich dem Koch auch mal persönlich sagen kann, dass die Nudeln lecker sind oder die Suppe versalzen war . Die Servicefachkraft hat so etwas unpersönliches in der Kommunikation mit der Küche . --PigeonIP (talk) 14:58, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Och, ich komme mit Kritik gut klar, ich sehe ja auch nicht alles in rosarot bei der WMF. Ich denke das Problem liegt eher darin dass nicht jeder (und speziell die Entwickler mit denen Du vielleicht in einem speziellen Fall sprechen moechtest) in jeder VillagePump, jeder Mailingliste, und jedem IRC-Kanal drin sind. Ich selber muss auch schauen auf welchen Foren ich wie oft vorbeischaue, einfach weil es noch weitere Kommunikationskanaele gibt die auch gelesen werden wollen, und andere Sachen zu tun gibt. Wikimedia hat in den letzten Monate mehrere "Community Liaisons"-Personen bekommen, ich hoffe das dies ein wenig helfen wird. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Das was du da ansprichst, ist eines der Probleme: es gibt viel zu viele Briefkästen, viel zu viele Kommunikationskanäle, von denen nicht immer klar ist, welche jetzt wirklich von Bedeutung bzw. die für mein Anliegen "richtig" sind (und dann noch separater Anmeldung bedürfen - quasi mit Auslese) oder welche davon gar verwaist. Hinzu mag noch kommen, dass der ein oder andere Entwickler (auch Autor) da seine Favoriten hat, die ihm am angenehmsten sind. Anstatt einer Kantine für alle gibt es viele kleine Hinterzimmer mit Lieferservice, um bei der obigen Analogie zu bleiben (oder mindestens Abstufungen Futterautomat/Imbiss/Kantine/Marchee/Casino). Die "Community Liaisons"-Personen (Kellner) mögen ein Puzzleteil sein, die können immerhin durch die Schwingtür/hinter die Theke treten, aber eine offene Küche ist auch das leider noch nicht.
 * Wegen der "Community Liaisons" bin ich aber auch ein wenig skeptisch, ich kenne da zu viele andere Beispiele, wo "Liaisons" dazwischen geschaltet wurden, um Ruhe zu schaffen, sprich sich besser abzuschotten. Einige "Kundenhotlines" funktionieren so, dass die die Prügel bekommen, die für andere bestimmt sind und selber aber auch keine Infos/Möglichkeiten fürs Verbesserungsmanagement bekommen. Jedenfalls sind auch die kein Allheilmittel. Ich mag den Ansatz aber dennoch gerne begrüßen. --PigeonIP (talk) 19:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

My friend was going to work well on a topic you want to help
create your own wiki project that we would like to add to the lua language but that medyawi How to install ubuntu or are. If you have experience or knowledge about this topic would be glad if you share --Enemyx
 * Hi, sorry but I have problems to understand your request. Could you please elaborate, and explain why you contact specifically me? Thanks! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Request for editbugs
Can you give editbugs to the jackmcbarn+wmbzgmail.com Bugzilla account? Thanks, Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, here you go! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

On-wiki chat
I wonder, could we put this project https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future/Real-time_collaboration on the agenda, and what would be the right venue to gain consensus towards starting it's implementation?Tdfdc (talk) 08:37, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Tdfdc, I think I'm not the right person to ask when it comes to resource allocation. I wonder which "agenda" you refer to; to get things going you could discuss potential first steps on the talk page or wikitech-l. Hope that helps. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the sentence "Believed to be interesting enough to explore, not officially on the agenda." that appears in "Status" section of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future/Real-time_collaboration. Who is the right person when it comes to resource allocation please?Tdfdc (talk) 12:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Between the lines it so far felt like you are talking about Wikimedia Foundation but it's not clear to me. Have you already tried on the talk page, or contacting the people who expressed their interest? That looks like the way to go to me in mostly volunteer driven bottom-up projects. 11190 might also have some thoughts worth to read. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

"Original intention"
Re this, I'm pretty sure her original intention was to spam for the link at the bottom :-). --Tim&#160;Landscheidt 12:56, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

PdfHandler extension
My rationale was to remove duplicated information, since this is already included in the extension's info box. However I forgot to remove the reference at the top of the page. The page was a total partially outdated mess before I worked on it and this just happened in the heat of the action. So no worries since this is a wiki after all. Cheers --&#91;&#91;kgh&#93;&#93; (talk) 13:50, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * In that case, please feel free to go ahead and remove the reference on top. I wasn't sure... :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's do it at the next (big) overhaul. It does not harm to have this is both spots after all. Cheers --&#91;&#91;kgh&#93;&#93; (talk) 14:42, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Mobile view version of Wikipedia bahasa Indonesia
Please improve the appeareance of this page like on English Wikipedia. Thanks. Relly Komaruzaman (talk) 02:44, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Please contact the Wikimedia mobile engineering team. Thank you! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:47, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Events/FOSDEM/2015
Events/FOSDEM/2015 is on the road and in our topic for the first General assembly of Wikimedia Belgium this Saturday. Let's start to manage the wikimedia stand. Cheers, Lionel Scheepmans (talk) 18:10, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Phabricator
You're welcome. It's just my job. - Fabsouza1 (talk) 17:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Phabricator - Latvian Wikipedia
Hi! I have some questions. We (Latvian Wikipedia) want to make some software changes. I know, I need to report them in Phabricator, but currently I wanted to know what can be done and for what we need community voting. So here is the things: So currently you could just confirm, what can be changed and for what we need consensus. --Edgars2007 (talk) 16:10, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * in formatnum we would like (because it is in Latvian language) to increase minimal number to separate thousands from 4 to 5
 * in parser functions like formatnum and expr we want to change decimal mark from point (.) to comma
 * change colon to point in clock time (12:32 -> 12.32)
 * there are problems with date display in some places, like signature. We would like to change the format there, I can't specify the changes, because it wont tell you anything. If you could tell in which place this is defined, then I probably be able to show examples. Also, in Recent changes list, where currently is "2 (march) 2015" (or "3 (march) 2015", if you see this tommorow :) )
 * we would also like to "fix" the alphabet in some places. See here, at the bottom of page press the "Šajā lapā izmantotās veidnes". There you see "Veidne:Ņujorka" as the last of template, but it should be after "Veidne:Navbox". The listing should be as it is in category. The same problem here (ending of the list - VietasKarte/dati/Āfrika etc.).
 * Hi, for general information on when consensus for configuration changes is required, please refer to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requesting_wiki_configuration_changes (of course that requires a configuration setting to exist). I don't know the specific details for everything you listed above, but I imagine that some of the current rendering is not even a MediaWiki setting or decision at all but taken from the Common Locale Definition Repository (CLDR) instead, e.g. the rendering of time like 12:32 is defined for Latvian here: http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/trunk/common/main/lv.xml#L1148 . "formatnum" seems to be defined as translations in MediaWiki core (again not a configuration) for some languages, but Latvian does not have that in https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/HEAD/languages%2Fmessages%2FMessagesLv.php . So I'm afraid I cannot help here much either (but if filing Phabricator tasks, preferably only one request per task, see How to report a bug). --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Thanks for being always there when I need it.

Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:34, 25 March 2015 (UTC) 
 * You are very very welcome! It's a pleasure to help. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:40, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Starting conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow at mediawiki.org
Hello. I'm sending this to you, because you've been one of the top 50 users of LQT on mediawiki.org over the last 360 days, and I wanted to make sure that you'd seen the announcement at Starting conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow at mediawiki.org. There are links in the topic-summary at the top, for other discussions (wikitech-l and Project:Current_issues), and a link to the planned process and timeline (scheduled to begin April 6, with smaller conversions at first). Please do test Flow out at Talk:Sandbox if you haven't tried it recently, and give any feedback/suggestions/requests at that main discussion location. Much thanks, Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 23:46, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Your profile picture on Phabricator
Thanks for uploading a profile picture on Phabricator. However this media is missing permission information. No source is given, nor is there any proof that the author or copyright holder agreed to license the file under a free license. Please provide a link to an appropriate webpage with license information, or send an email with copy of a written permission to OTRS (permissions-en@wikimedia.org). This also applies if you are the author yourself.

Please see this page for more information on how to confirm permission, and Commons:Permission if you would like to understand why we ask for permission when uploading work that is not your own.

Unless the permission information is given, I will be forced to contact WMF-legal regarding this issue. Thank you for your time.

Yours truly,

Jonatan Svensson Glad (talk) 23:54, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing this up. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use and https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use/Phabricator apply. I fail to see the reference to OTRS or Commons here as Phabrricator avatars are hosted on phab.wmfusercontent.org and having to provide either a link or written permission in every case. But as this might be a general issue with any avatars in Wikimedia Phabricator, please feel encouraged to discuss the topic of Phabricator user avatars in T1180. Regarding the specific case of my currently used avatar in Phabricator, see the section "May I use the pictures for …?" on http://www.sp-studio.de/faq/ . --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read the "Is this an official South Park website?" which explains it is not an official website for South Park and that the creator of that website do not own the copyright to the avatars distributed on that website. Also ready the "Forbidden" section under "May I use the pictures for …?" which explains that it can not be used for comercial purposes, and what I know Phab isn't allowed to claim Fair use, but I don't know. As for the task I would like it reopened even if Legal does not answer, since we need to forma a comunity desition on how to handle copyright violations anyways, even if they do not make a statement. Just my 2 öre (Swedish cents). Josve05a (talk) 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems irrelevant whether it is an official website for South Park hence not sure why you bring that up? Unfrotunately I could not find the place where "the creator of that website do not own the copyright to the avatars distributed on that website" is written, maybe you could provide the exact code and the section? I'm also curious to understand how you see a "commercial purpose" in my avatar use in Wikimedia Phabricator. Thanks for your help! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 21:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * When I wrote "code" I obviously meant "quote", sorry for that. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * (late) For one, only the creator of SOuth Park can license images of works of South Park. Commedy Central does. And all website of WMF, unless given permission from leagal, can only have free content which allows comerical and adoptations, I see nowhere where legal has allowed Phabricator to be allowed to hold non -NC or fair use, never the less in profile pictures, which does not fall within WMF-policies about fair use. I've sent an email to legal about this issue, pending response. Josve05a (talk) 12:03, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your efforts to clarify the situation! On the general problem, Legal is very welcome to comment on T1180 - that task is specifically about inappropriate avatars in Wikimedia Phabricator. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm still not entirely sure if my Phabricator avatar image was unfree but to avoid further uncertainty (at least in my case) I have removed that avatar image in question. Again thanks for bringing this up and your efforts! Appreciated. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:27, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Anfrage aus der deWP
Hi,

schaust du mal auf de:WP:PHAB, ob das so einigermaßen hinkommt?

Habe ich richtig verstanden, dass eine Task subscribers hat, ein Team dagegen members und watchers?

Außerdem wüsste ich gern was zu URL im Phab:
 * 1) Verlinkung von Projektbeschreibungen
 * 2) * Mit https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/i18n komme ich auf das Workboard.
 * 3) * Mit https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/sprint/profile/156 bekomme ich die Projektbeschreibung.
 * 4) * Was muss ich anstellen, wenn ich die Projektbeschreibung von  verlinken will, aber nicht weiß, dass das die Nummer   hat?
 * 5) * Bei https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/mediawiki-extensions-css komme ich direkt auf die Projektbeschreibung; vermutlich, weil es grad kein Workboard gibt.
 * 6) Verlinkung ohne Callsign – gleiche Geschichte wie eben
 * 7) * Wenn ich von einer Aufgabe die Beschreibung  kenne, aber nicht weiß, dass das Callsign dazu   lautet – wie würde ich zu einer URL kommen?

Schöne Woche --PerfektesChaos (talk) 22:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: Was war eigentlich die größte Bugzilla-Nummer? 58.000 +x? Gab es sowas wie einen „letzten Bugzilla-Bug“, analog zu rSVN115794? LG --PerfektesChaos (talk) 09:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hej hej, alle Projekttypen haben sowohl Members als auch Subscribers - siehe Phabricator/Help fuer die unterschiedlichen Bedeutungen. Es gibt momentanen keinen direkten Link auf die Projektbeschreibung wenn man nur den Namen aber nicht die Nummer des Projektes kennt. Wenn noch niemand ein Workboard fuer ein Projekt eingerichtet hat wird anstelle dessen die Projektbeschreibung angezeigt. Callsign werden noch debattiert unter Phabricator/Diffusion/Callsign naming conventions (und da habe ich mich selbst auch noch nicht hinreichend eingearbeitet). Und das letzte Bugzilla-Ticket war 73681. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Assistance on Gnome Bugzilla
Hello Andre

you are long time active on Gnome Bugzilla and likely you can assist me there with my patches too.

I've created patches for librsvg - The SVG rasterer used on Wikipedia. The following list references the related bugs I worked on. I tried to contact the maintainer on the mailinglist but didn't get a answer yet.


 * 1)
 * 2)
 * 3)
 * 4)
 * 5)

Recent active maintainers of librsvg were Chpe and Federico.

I want these patches to be committed before the 17th August since then it is feature freeze for the next release of Gnome. Can you help me?

Greetings --Menner (talk) 07:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, I can't do magic either but of course I can try to ping folks. To which mailing list did you write (any link to the archives)? Which maintainer did you contact? Federico is active from time to time; chpe way less. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:27, 24 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I've contacted Federico in CC with my mail to public mailing list: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2015-May/thread.html


 * Pinging is good. So I get feedback and can improve my commitments. Further I can emphasis my interests. Otherwise I expect to stay unnoticed not even knowing why.


 * --91.6.88.147 10:44, 24 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Any news? I've tested these patches with Tango Icon Theme and compared it with percetualdiff test suit against previous release. This states only non-perceptual differences beyond text rendering. --Menner (talk) 16:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've pinged again in https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2015-June/msg00001.html but you could also try to catch Federico on IRC... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:38, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * 2 of the 5 bugs listed above have been fixed lately in upstream librsvg code. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:58, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Bitte um Entsperrung beim Phabricator
Moin Andre, Du hast mich für mein penetrantes Insistieren auf einer sinnvollen Antwort in diesem Phab gesperrt, das hätte ich gerne revertiert. Ich bin zwar noch immer stinkig, dass keiner der zahllosen hochbezahlten Programmierer mir die richtige Stelle zur Diskussion mitgeteilt hat, (und bei Lila war imho klar falsch) bzw. die einzige mir zugetragene Stelle definitiv falsch war, aber ich denke, ich könnt' mich künftig beim Phab etwas zurückhalten, dann würden halt diverse Diskussionsseiten der Nicht-Kümmerer in SF zugetextet werden müssen. Inzwischen würde ich aber auch bei anderen Problemem, die über den Phab abgehandelt werden, meine Erfahrungen und Beobachtungen mit einbringen wollen, dank dieser Sperre geht das aber nicht. Außerdem fehlt mir sowieso die Information, an welcher Stelle ein solches Admin- bzw- Sperrproblem angesprochen bzw. Einspruch eingelegt werden könnte. Solche Dinge gehen legitimerweise nur über die Community, die hat das absolute Sagen über die Serviceorganisation WMF. Wo wäre also die korrekte Sperrprüfungsseite für das Communityproject des Wikiversums Phabricator? Irgendwie scheint mir der ein recht undemokratisches Eigenleben an den Nutzern vorbei zu führen. Es wäre natürlich auch möglich, den Phab tatsächlich auf rein technische Details für Nerds zu beschränken, dann muss aber ganz oben von den (bezahlten) Insidern klar der Ort für Diskussionen im Wikiverse (und auf gar keinem Fall in Mailinglisten) angegeben werden, dass ist imho das mindeste, dass die unbezahlten Autoren von den bezahlten Servicekräften verlangen können. --Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden)superputsch must go 13:35, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, danke fuer die Nachricht! Generell ist Phabricator offen fuer alle, die sich konstruktiv einbringen moegen. Ich habe Dich nicht fuer "penetrantes Insistieren" gesperrt wie Du behauptest - siehe T90801. Insistieren kann voellig legitim und richtig sein wenn es darum geht, eine technische Diskussion voranzubringen (und ggf. falsche Argumentationen als solche herauszuarbeiten ohne dabei persoenlich zu werden). Ich habe Dich gesperrt weil ich darum gebeten hatte der von der Community geschriebenen Etiquette zu folgen. Der darauffolgende Kommentar in T90801 wirkt auf mich als sei diese Bitte geflissentlich ignoriert worden.
 * Den Autoren der Etiquette geht es darum dass Leute respektvoll miteinander umgehen (unabhaengig ob jemand fuer irgendetwas bezahlt wird oder nicht) und ich diene gerne der Community dabei die Etiquette umzusetzen. Falls Du meinst dass Du der Etiquette in Zukunft folgen wirst (ich weiss nicht ob "beim Phab etwas zurückhalten" dies implizit ausdruecken soll?), aktiviere ich gerne Dein Konto im Wikimedia Phabricator wieder.
 * Mir ist keine "korrekte Sperrprüfungsseite für das Communityproject des Wikiversums Phabricator" bekannt. Solch ein Thema wuerde sicher gut auf die Diskussionsseite der Phabricator Etiquette passen, so dass die Community gemeinsam die Idee und einen moeglichen Workflow diskutieren kann (und das dann in die Etiquette eingehen kann). --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:41, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Danke, das hast Du richtig verstanden. Was ich bislang noch immer nicht verstanden habe, ist folgendes: Warum konnte oder wollte mir niemand von denen, die dafür bezahlt werden, dies wissen zu müssen, den korrekten Platz für die laut Etiquette nicht dort hingehörigen Grundsatzdiskussionen nennen? Insbesondere bei diesem völlig mißlungenen Profildingsda, das nur und alleine von den Communities entschieden hätte werden dürfen, weil ein Profil nun mal qua definitionem ein Communityfeature ist, finde ich das in höchsten Maße arrogant und/oder abgehoben gegenüber dem eigentlichen Souverän, den Communities. Ich werde also künftig nicht mehr dort so "penetrant insistieren", das die Servicemitarbeiter gefälligst Service abliefern, sondern dann eben auf deren Diskussionsseiten, und nicht nur bei der eher minder-responsiven Lila.
 * Hast Du inzwischen eventuell rausgefunden, wo der Communitykonsens zur Einführung dieses Features stattgefunden hat? Und wo der richtige Platz für Diskussionen gewesen wäre? Imho müsste ein Pflichtfeld zum einreichen eines Phabs ein entsprechender Link in das Wikiversum sein, damit dort diskutiert und im Phab nur getechnobabbelt wird. --Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden)superputsch must go 11:40, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nachtrag:
 * Ich finde es ein Armmutszeugnis, dass ein solches "Feature" komplett ohne Einbindung der Communities, und imho sogar explizit an diesen vorbei, von augenscheinlich völlig ahnungslosen Programmierern entworfen und auch gleich ohne Rückfrage auf alle Nutzer losgelassen wurde. Es zeugt sehr deutlich von der Aversion derer in Frisco gegenüber den ungewaschenen Massen, die letztendlich allerdings über die Inhalterstellung, also den alleinigen Zweck der WPs, die Mittel zur Versorgung des stetig wachsenden Wasserkopf bereitstellen. WM ist keine Softwarebude, WM ist ein Inhaltsbereitsteller. Die Software muss den Autoren (und eingeschränkt den Lesern) dienen. Julius1990 hat das sehr schön in dem zugehörigen, inzwischen antwortlos archivierten, Thread bei Lila gesagt: asking before means reducing complaints after. Das ist eine Sache, die die WMF nicht mal ansatzweise beherzigt. --Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden)superputsch must go 11:56, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Zu Formulierungen dass ich doch "gefälligst Service abliefern" moege: Responding to sarcastic, non-productive comments is not my priority. Communicating with good-faith, positive, engaged community members and ideas is. Thank you. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:26, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Die WMF ist nun mal eine Serviceorganisation für die Autoren der diversen Wikiversum-Projekte, sie ist in keinster Weise der Chef des Ganzen. Leider scheinen einigen dort die Abermillionen, die dank der Autoren auf den Konten liegen, zu Kopf gestiegen zu sein, und sie wähnen sich besser als der eigentliche Souverän, den sie originär nurundankbare und unvermeidliche Bürokratenarbeit abnehmen sollten: Server warten, Software warten und auf Anforderung auch verbessern, gerne auch Vorschläge zur Verbesserung zur Abstimmung stellen, aber nicht selbstherrlich was einführen, juristischen Beistand und Rückhalt geben, die Gelder gut anlegen und dezentral so ausgeben, das den Autoren und Lesern ein maximaler Nutzen entsteht...
 * Diese komischen "Profile", die alles außer Profilen sind, sind da geradezu ein Paradebeispiel für das, was schief läuft. Profile sind etwas, das ausschließlich die Community interessieren darf. Also muss alles, was Profile angeht, auch unbedingt vor Einführung ausführlich mit den Communities in deren Zuhause diskutiert werden. Eine Einführung von derart halbgaren, unüberlegten Nichtprofilen komplett an den Nutzern vorbei zeugt von einem gerüttelt Maß an entweder Gedankenlosigkeit oder Verachtung. Wenn dann die Community plötzlich und unerwartet dieses "Feature" entdeckt und erwartungsgemäß in der Luft zerreißt, sollten die Verantwortlichen von sich aus auf die Communities zugehen (und zwar in richtigen Projekten, weder Phabricator noch Mailing-Listen sind legitime Diskussionsplattformen für solche Dinge, das sind dunkle Hinterzimmer von irgendwelchen In-Groups), sämtliche Fragen ausführlich beantworten und das umstrittene Projekt zunächst erst mal unscharf schalten bis es geklärt ist.
 * Wenn irgendwelche sonstigen Nutzer der Software außerhalb des Wikiversums dieses "Feature" haben wollen, sollen sie, ist aber absolut zweitrangig, das Wikiversum hat Vorrang und da entscheiden die Comunities, nicht Bürokraten in Elfenbeintürmen, zumindest sollte es so sein. Und dieses "Feature" das irgendjemand augenscheinlich ohne jedes Nachdenken "Profil" genannt hat, obwohl es dies überhaupt nicht ist, kann ohne jedes Problem komplett abgeschaltet werden, es fehlt nichts.
 * Apropos: Responding to sarcastic, non-productive comment": There is no productive comment whatsoever by those who developed it to those who asked questions. Wie mensch in den Wald hineinruft (Superputsch und das MV-Desaster verursacht allein durch die WMF), so schallt es hinaus. Die WMF hat mit ihrem communityverachtenden Verhalten in den letzten jahren jeglichen AGF verspielt, warum sollte da nicht ein wenig sarkasmus mal gut sein gegenüber den abgehobenen Leuten ohne Communityverbindung? --Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden)superputsch must go 15:50, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Als Orte fuer Grundsatz-Diskussionen wuerden mir spontan https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l und https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum einfallen. Fuer alles weitere: Siehe meinen vorherigen Kommentar hier. In diesem Sinne, AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:34, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Ich habe mal das Meta-Forum nach "UserProfile" durchsucht und keinen Hinweis auf irgendwelche Mitteilungen seitens der Programmierer dieses unerwünschten Bugs an die Community gefunden. Wo wurde das vorgestellt und von der Community für sinnvoll befunden? Das ist die entscheidende Frage, auf die die Verantwortlichen für diesen Bug leider die Antwort verweigern. Die Bildchen, die endlich ein paar von den Verantwortlichen zu ein ganz klein wenig Nachdenken veranlasst haben, waren nicht der Kern des Problems, es war die Implementation überhaupt an der Community vorbei, nur weil sie es konnten und in ihrer völligen Ahnungslosigkeit für nett gefunden haben. Ein solches "Feature" ist ohne explizite Communityzustimmung völlig illegitim, und wer das anders sieht, ist inkompatibel zum Wikiversum. Ein solches Vorgehen passt leider in das große Bild, dass die WMF von sich abgibt, mit der expliziten Kriegserklärung gegen die deWP mit dem brutalen Putsch von Erik um das Lieblingsspielzeug MV von Fabrice durchzuprügeln, die Entwicklung der merkbefreiten Forumssimulation "Flow", die nicht mal ansatzweise in der Lage ist den kompletten aktuellen Umfang der Diskussionsseiten zu ersetzen, das VE-Disaster vorletztes Jahr, die WMF hat den Kontakt zur Realität verloren, jegliche Basishaftung abgelegt und mensch sollte eigentlich sehr vielen da das en:WP:RTL nahelegen. Ohne unfangreiche Communityeinbindung fehlt der WMF jegliche Legitimation. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden)superputsch must go 18:51, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * T63729 scheint sowohl die kollidierenden verschiedenen Einstellungen/Ansichten als auch vorhandene Probleme zusammenzufassen. Zur grundlegenden Diskussion dieser Einstellungen/Ansichten/Probleme habe ich in meinem letzten Kommentar zwei mir bekannte moeglicherweise angemessene Orte benannt. Und fuer sonstige Themen verweise ich ein letztes Mal auf meinen Kommentar vom 9. Juni, 14:26 UTC weiter oben in dieser Unterhaltung. Werte Gruesse, AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:34, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Your fix on the out of date video
Regarding Phabricator/Creating_and_renaming_projects

Hello.

I know many of the people that come to MediaWiki are "old pros" who know what they're about. But as a complete novice, I feel that if a step is essentiaɭ to the process, and out-of-date video is WORSE than no video at all, especially where no text explaining the process is available. While my edit certainly resulted in an ugly page, and didn't improve the process at all, it DID make it clear to people who might be able to fix the problem that there was a problem to be fixed. I am worried that merely putting "outdated" in the video text is less likely to result in either


 * 1) A new video, or
 * 2) A step-by-step textual description of the process.

Until one of those things happens, I'm currently unable to proceed with registering my project. Please consider reverting your revert.

As a separate item, Is there a "STOP HELPINGǃǃǃ" option for the new editor drek? Every time I do a link, I have to press the square bracket, then a space, then another square bracket, then delete the space, otherwise the editor seems to magically scramble the two brackets into some weird apostrophe. I can't even get the space thing to work with curly braces, which don't show at all. This interference with what's actually being typed is very disconcerting. (Pressing "[ [" and then having a single backspace delete both keystrokes is hyper-non-intuitive, and sometimes wrong (if you only had one lead-in bracket).

Riventree
 * Hi Thanks for your message! So I added "outdated" to the video title because that's what I've also been doing for videos on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator/Help in the past. Volunteers created these videos in late 2014 but Phabricator is moving fast and its user interface changes a lot. I have more hopes that people create updated videos when they get aware that videos exist (I might be wrong though) and that's why I wouldn't hide these videos from being shown on mediawiki.org.
 * For creating and renaming projects, special permissions in Phabricator are needed (as explained on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator/Help ) but I've checked the textual description now and it is still correct.
 * Regarding editing, there is a classic way to edit content on a wiki page ("Edit source") which requires knowing the MediaWiki markup language, while there is also the newer VisualEditor which provides "what you see is what you get". Which one did you use? I'm not sure about the steps to reproduce the problem that you are unfortunately facing, and I wonder whether the fact that your user homepage is UserːRiventree instead of the default User:Riventree (compare the different colons) is also related to this problem?
 * But in general, please don't get discouraged - we all learn together and from each other. :) Thank you! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:06, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi!
I left a message for you here. Ciao ciao! The Quixotic Potato (talk) 14:29, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Same thing again. Please go here. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
 * It's more like "still" than "again". I've replied on English Wikipedia where you also pinged me. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:56, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, problem solved. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 00:34, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Please help me
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T102460 NehalDaveND (talk) 05:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Please learn how to be more patient. If everybody pinged every few days I don't see how this would scale. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:16, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

librsvg
Hi Andre!

Recently you were active on some librsvg bugs. I've tried to contact Federico directly to confirm he took notice but he's never present in IRC. Maybe you have better contact to him.

Beyond that I don't expect more issues. If my testing next weekend will be successful I'd like to push update of librsvg on Wikimedia. Since over the last year many interesting fixes have been commited.

-- Menner (talk) 20:02, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, I don't have better contact, sorry - basically the same IRC and email that you probably also use. :) Thanks for the patches to all those librsvg bugs and for testing! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:31, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Please provide feedback on suggested improvements to the Code of Conduct
Thanks to everyone who’s helped work on the Code of Conduct so far.

People have brought up issues they feel were missed when working on "Unacceptable behavior" and "Report a problem". Consultants have also suggested changes in these same sections.

These are important sections, so please take a look at the proposed changes. I apologize that this feedback arrived later than planned, but I think this will create a better document.

If you prefer to give your opinion privately, feedback via e-mail is welcome at conduct-discussion@undefinedwikimedia.org.

Thanks. Mattflaschen-WMF via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:18, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
I really appreciate what you do around the place, often in difficult circumstances, especially as you are the head that has to say no, or not yet, or not for quite a while. While I may test and challenge statements, I do hope that I am doing it respectfully, and I do try to do it politely, though know that there can be failures.

— billinghurst  sDrewth  10:38, 1 March 2016 (UTC) 

Request for delete account on phabricator
Hi AKlapper, sorry about this nuisance request, but could you delete on of accounts on Phabricator, please? I'm owner of two account: minatahatsune (1) and minhhuy (2). The (2) account was created because I want to change my old username (1) to new one, but can't found any tutorial about this process. As you see, I has same "LDAP User" and "MediaWiki User" for both account. And now I want to delete old account (1) due duplication.

Are there any ways to delete an account? Seem my old account (1) has some edits on tasks and might not be deleted? If that so, whether my new account (2) which no any edits could be deleted, and could you change my old username (1) to "minhhuy". After all, I just hope that I have one account with username is "minhhuy".

Sincerely apologize about this nuisance request, again. I understand that I'm bothering you, and please forgive my bad English grammar. Your sincerely. -- minhhuy (talk) 03:28, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, I destroyed the Phabricator User @minhhuy and renamed the other user. You can also attach your "MediaWiki User" via https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/external/ . For future reference, Talk:Phabricator/Help or a Phabricator task might scale better for such requests. :) Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. :) -- minhhuy (talk) 03:30, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

MediaWiki 1.27
Hi Andre,

please unprotect page MediaWiki 1.27. Today is like the third time that I would like to add stuff to that page, but I can't because it is protected - with doubtful reasoning btw. Having a look at the other MW release pages, I am not the only IP users contributing there. These improvements currently get lost. Making the page editable again is the better choice!

Thanks in advance! --87.123.22.164 16:52, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Help on template.
Hello, where can I find help to make Template:Langswitch work on Species ? Thanks Archi38 (talk) 13:33, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * mw:Template:Langswitch does not exist so I'm not sure what this is about, sorry. :-/ In general I'd expect technical village pumps to be a good venue to receive support, but for that you'd have to share which exact issues you're running into. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Phabricator name change
Hello! (probably TMI but I came out as transgender a few months ago, which also came with changing my real name) so is it okay if you could change my username at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/p/codynguyen1116/ to SamanthaNguyen? Thank you :) SamanthaNguyen (talk) 22:06, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Edit: Would you also know who to go to for changing my username on gerrit.wikimedia.org? Thanks again! Sorry for the trouble haha
 * Hi, I've renamed your account in Phabricator. Note: "Users who rely on password authentication will need to reset their password after their username is changed (their username is part of the salt in the password hash). The user will receive an email notifying them that you changed their username, with instructions for logging in and resetting their password if necessary." I don't have access to rename in Gerrit, sorry - could you file a task in Phabricator against the "Gerrit" project about that, please? Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah okay, thanks! :D I will! SamanthaNguyen (talk) 21:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Locked out from Phabricator
Hi, I am not exactly sure why, but it seems that I was locked out of Phabricator. If it is because of the last two instances, ignorance made me file reports which were not bugs. Mea Culpa. Could you kindly reinstate me? I think I learned a lesson. Ineuw talk 20:26, 26 September 2016 (UTC)


 * What makes you think that you were locked out of Phabricator? What steps do you perform, what results do you see? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)


 * This conversation seems to be a duplicate of Topic:Tbzzn9u4uas9g2w0. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:06, 27 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the double post. I replied at my first post] Ineuw talk 00:19, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Please participate again in improving the "Conflict of interest" section
The "Conflict of interest" section was not approved earlier.

There has been further discussion on it, aiming to solve those issues. Please participate in the sub-sections of Talk:Code of Conduct/Draft and make sure your concerns are being addressed.

Thanks.

User:Mattflaschen-WMF 03:55, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Mailing list
Sorry to ping you this way, but I'm not sure there is any way to ping people on Phabricator and I really would like to know if this can be done, or should I look elsewhere. If it's not your area of responsibility/expertise, whom should I ping instead? Halibutt (talk) 22:49, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmm, anyone listed as member of the project in Phabricator should be able to help, I'd say. I'm sorry that this takes longer. :( --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:44, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info., help! SOS! Pretty, pretty please :) Halibutt (talk) 15:31, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have the list creation password. -- Krenair (talk &bull; contribs) 15:42, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

systemLanguage and rsvg
I'm not on Bugzilla, but you requested a review of the patch at


 * https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761482

The patch does not follow the semantics of SVG 1.1 switch at all and should be reverted. The details are at


 * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125710

I would appreciate it if you could get it reverted.

In addition, the T125710 page describes the confusion of locale strings and langtags. It also points out what is wrong with rsvg's langtag comparison.

It would be far better if the input to rsvg was a language preference string.

There's still a lot of stuff broken with WM Commons switch translated file. It used to work, but it broke many months ago.

Glrx (talk) 22:49, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, you could get onto GNOME Bugzilla and add a comment over there: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/createaccount.cgi Note there is nothing to "revert" as the patch does not seem to be merged yet, but your review comments would very likely be welcome there. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:49, 27 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I've wasted half a day struggling with the UI on phabricator and still could not find what I want. I needed help from another to find the T125710 report. I don't want to waste a similar amount of time over at Bugzilla -- especially with the poor privacy policy there. Glrx (talk) 19:06, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If I can help you find what you want, please tell me which problems you ran into. :) And I'll forward your comment to GNOME Bugzilla. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

It is your suggestion to inform the rsvg people about my comments at T125710. I took that as being you would post a link (or copy) my comments as an rsvg bug. From what you've said, the report should have broader scope than PhiLiP's forgotten report.

Where does a mere Wikipedia mortal report something so it gets fixed?

As further evidence of my ineptness, there have been a few reports about problems with SVG handling within WM: But nothing came of those reports.
 * Many have complained that SVGTranslate stopped working
 * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Graphics_village_pump#Case_sensitive_comparison_on_IETF_langtags

Others and I have been clueless about where to report such nonsense. They should be simple fixes for those who know. That's what happens with a lot of bots and templates on en.WP. A user finds a problem, reports on the bot/template's talk page, and it gets fixed.

Instead of a structure for WM or outside tool complaints, there just seems to be randomness. Post a message on a Help talk page and hope that somebody there knows what to do with it. There must be a better way.

Finally, frustrated with ineffective posts, I drilled down to find out what was wrong myself.

It was pulling teeth to drill down on the SVGTranslate problem. I don't know Git, and I don't know PHP. Even when I found the bug (the stack trace pointed to an protection violation at line 395), it was not clear what to do with it.

I landed at Phabricator. Somebody had already reported the bug on 27 June 2016 at but it got lost on the scrap heap. Nothing had been done except some assignments. So I explained what had happened. A little later I left a note on Krinkle's talk page.
 * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138780

Phabricator seems to be a tangled web rather than a tree. I'm sure it must be better than that, but I'm no expert, and it's impenetrable to me. It's far afield from the community that WM serves.

That got SVGTranslate working again, but there's still the langtag nonsense. I drilled down looking for the langtag problem but got nowhere. With some help, I was pointed to T125710 that linked to PhiLiP's edits. Even if PhiLiP's bad edit ahs not been merged, the existing langtag comparison is wrong as I explained at Phabricator; it does not follow the spec.

So report some problems to rsvg; maybe that will get fixed eventually.

But by all means get the lowercase/uppercase langtag / |lang= problem fixed.

Jerry
 * I'm trying to understand which expectations are behind words like "But nothing came of those reports", as long as no reporter has made sure their comments (I don't know where 'many have complained' as no links were provided) will be placed in a venue seen by developers. There is Phabricator; it is used to manage bug reports - that might be "the better way" you refer to. I don't see either how some bug report "got lost on the scrap heap" (whatever that exactly means) - it might have been seen by a developer, on the other hand I'm only aware of a very small number of Wikimedians sporadically working on the SVG code in their free time. In general in free and open source software projects, if you or someone else do not decide to work on writing a patch, there is no guarantee that anything will happen, as manpower is not unlimited. And that fact can indeed be very frustrating sometimes. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:22, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Weigh in on whether to finalize the new version of the "Conflict of interest" section
You participated earlier in discussion about the "Conflict of interest" section of the draft Code of Conduct for technical spaces. There was not consensus to approve an earlier version of this section. I'm contacting you to let you know the draft has been updated, and we are now discussing whether to finalize the new version.

Please participate here.

Thank you,

User:Mattflaschen-WMF via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:32, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Translation of Visual Editor User GUide
Hi Andre

Do you know how to initiate translations for these changes?

I wasn't able to find a documentation for the translation process.

thank you Lars
 * Hi Lars, I know nothing about translations, sorry. Maybe could help. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Herald rule
About your recent email, I am fairly sure H115 is turned off now. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:19, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, I am sorry! I thought I had checked again. :( Thanks a lot for disabling it! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 16:34, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

About Wikibase Repository and Client
Hi AKlapper!

I checked in Wikibase's Phabricator that you are member of that project. I am interested in both, Repository and Client, and I have one question about it. I don't know if your talk page is the correct place to ask, if not, please tell me where I could ask it.

What I want to know is if Wikibase Repository and Client extensions can be activated in the same MediaWiki installation or if is necessary to have installed the repository in one and the client in another, where I want to synchronize the data.

Thanks in advance! Don't worry if you don't answer because it isn't the correct place, in that case I would like to know where I can ask it. I thought to ask it in Phabricator, but I think that it isn't the correct place.

Regards, Ivanhercaz (talk) 23:16, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I found Wikibase/Configuration and read «Using the Wikidata Build repository provides extra options to allow you to choose to deploy Wikibase Repo and/or Wikibase Client», so I think that both could be used in the same MediaWiki installation, no?


 * Regards, Ivanhercaz (talk) 23:36, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, please feel free to ask on the Wikidata mailing list or in the #wikidata channel on Freenode IRC. Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 21:27, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you AKLapper! I'm going to ask in the Wikidata mailing list. Regards, Ivanhercaz (talk) 21:55, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Spam on Phab
Hi, would delete the stuff in as well (or enable me to delete it myself). Thanks for your help. --Jura1 (talk) 15:18, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

WikiVoyage PDFs, book creator and embedded maps
Ciao AKlapper

If the following topics are not in your jurisdiction, could you point me to someone that can help me?

Getting to the point, I see the following shortcoming on wiki articles (noticed this on WikiVoyage), and I would like to know, what to do to get them solved.:


 * 1) Rendering a PDF creates something weird like ?'"`UNIQ--maplink-00000000-QINU`"'? (see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_error.png) where before there was a embedded map in the wiki, e.g. see Amman.
 * 2) Furthermore, within a WikiVoyage article, for all listings that have a GPS entry, there appears a "1" in front of the entry when producing a PDF from this article (see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Listing_error.png).
 * 3) On an advanced level, maybe also to deal with the former problems, the current PDFs ("Download as PDF") lack any map and thus the time-consuming maintenance of the GPS locations of sees, do, sleeps, etc. of a travel article are lost when downloading the PDF or creating a book from it. So why not also include a generic overview map (produced from OSM) for each article containing all GPS points with number, like Lonely Planet does (e.g. see http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2055215075_3d17498971_b.jpg)? This could for example be produced as a whole page at the end of each (PDF) article and it only needs to contain the numbers/points (as reference to the previous listings).
 * 4) For WikiVoyage articles the "Download as PDF" link is quite hard to find on the left side, and I know from some people they basically just printed (directly or into a PDF) the wiki page instead of properly creating the PDF. Couldn't there be created an icon with link in the upper right corner of the article for a direct download of this PDF, right next to the GPX icon where the GPX entries of the article can be directly downloaded, and the icon for the map view (see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Quick_icons.png)?
 * 5) As mentioned before, each WikiVoyage article has a GPX file download icon (link) in the upper right corner to download all GPS points mentioned in this article. But for a book such a combined GPX file is not available, even though it would make sense to have all GPS points of all the books articles combined for the book to load them into a smartphone app like OSMand for travelling.

Many thanks

PS: I also addressed those topics to User:Jkatz (WMF).


 * Hi! To make developers aware of software misbehavior or feature requests in the underlying software it is either welcome to file good bug reports for specific well-defined requests, or to discuss with the corresponding team. To get bugs fixed, anyone is free to propose patches in Gerrit - see Developer access for more information. Now regarding some of the topics that you listed above:


 * 1) The "UNIQ" noise is a strip marker issue (T28213 lists some of them). A bug report is welcome, which also explains what is meant by "before" and includes a full URL (the link here does not work unfortunately).
 * 2) You can see a list of software bugs of the current PDF renderer (called OCG) by clicking "Open Tasks" on tag/ocg-pdfrenderer/.
 * 3) The Reading department of the Wikimedia Foundation has some ideas to change the PDF export. See Reading/Web/PDF Rendering for more information.
 * 4) You can see a list of software bugs of the potential future PDF renderer (called Electron) by clicking "Workboard" on tag/electron-pdfs/.
 * 5) Displaying a map of the place that a Wikivoyage article is about generally makes sense, in my humble opinion. That's not specific about PDF files. Feel free to check if there is such a feature request in Wikimedia Phabricator already. Same for books including GPS/GPX data.
 * 6) Anyone can propose or write any local gadgets that display some link in some corner on a specific wiki, and/or make that gadget a default gadget after discussing with the local community on that wiki. I do not think that PDFs are that popular though that every single Wikimedia wiki should expose some PDF link so visibly. (For example, I never created PDF files from Wikipedia articles so I would not want some icon in the upper corner.)
 * --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:01, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Bug
I discovered a bug with Echo that I would like to report it but I cant because you disabled my Phabricator account. What can I do? LegoFan4000 (talk) 16:10, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see this. LegoFan4000 (talk) 17:07, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have seen this. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:24, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * (...and I now also see that you edited your previous comment and added the sentence "What can I do?".) You could ask someone else to report the problem for you in Phabricator, or bring up the issue on a related mailing list or corresponding IRC channel. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there any way I can get my account unblocked? LegoFan4000 (talk) 21:58, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * What makes you believe that you would act any differently in Phabricator, thinking of highly disruptive behavior in the past? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:46, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * For one, I am no longer active with brickimedia, although I do edit on their wiki from time to time. Second, I would like to be able report bugs and ask questions. LegoFan4000 (talk) 11:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand that, however I asked what makes you think that you will act differently in Phabricator when it comes to constructively work together with others (not only Brickimedia). --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:47, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't plan to be a member of any phabricator projects, I plan to report bugs as I find them, and ask questions as needed. LegoFan4000 (talk) 14:15, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see. LegoFan4000 (talk) 13:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Membership in projects was never a problem. Unwillingness to discuss tone and disruptive actions like in T135012 or T139849 was (see Z453). My question above remains. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:18, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I havn't been disruptive at all lately. Take the Support Desk for instance. I've been helping people there and haven't been disruptive there at all. I have even helped to clean up spam/vandalism here once and a while. LegoFan4000 (talk) 15:20, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see. LegoFan4000 (talk) 14:22, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * ...and I am now autopatrolled here. LegoFan4000 (talk) 20:10, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The question is whether you commit to constructively working together with others in Phabricator and commit to strictly following the Phabricator Etiquette from now on. I am happy to see your activity on the Support Desk and that you're autopatrolled on mediawiki.org. (PS: No need to ping me after 24 hours on threads - that just creates more notifications.) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:41, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yws I do. LegoFan4000 (talk) 09:40, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've renabled your Phabricator account. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:45, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I can't log into my fabricator account as it says "waiting for approval", please help. Thanks in advance. Bsandipan (talk) 01:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
 * See the additional email you sent me. Please avoid pinging about the same thing at the same time in several places - thanks! For backgrounds, see this email. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:39, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Help on renaming
Hello. I have a Phabricator account named "Rwhd". It was created about 2 years ago when I used my wiki username "Rwhd". Since I have changed my wiki username to "Rachmat04", could it be possible to rename my Phab account to the same name?

Should it is possible, please have my Phab account renamed to "Rachmat04". Thank you. &middot;&middot;&middot; 🌸 Rachmat04 &middot; ☕ 08:29, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Done. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:29, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your help! :) &middot;&middot;&middot; 🌸 Rachmat04 &middot; ☕ 13:21, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi AKlapper,

I would to thank you for your reply in the issue that I open in Phabricator. I will consider this for next issues like this one.

Have a nice day.

Regards, Ivanhercaz (talk) 16:56, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Concerning Phabricator stuff
Okay then. Feel free to undo my removals then. I'm not exactly feeling competent right now. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * All reinstated, I hope ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:00, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Phabricator T169474#3400166
I submitted T169474#3400166 months ago. I have yet to hear back if anyone is even considering fixing this. There might be many other patrollers on en-wp with this problem. Please advise. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 01:34, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * If nobody has added any comment to a task it means that nobody plans to work on it. There are many open tasks that welcome investigation and code contributions by anyone interested in fixing them. I think PageCuration was maintained by the Collaboration team so maybe you could contact them though their priorities might differ. Are you aware of comments by other patrollers about this issue? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:28, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I've not seen anyone on en-wp mention it but I don't know how often everyone checks their logs. I write the encyclopedia. That's why we're all here. I would expect that there are coders that get paid to keep the platform running. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 13:32, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed. There are many different conceptions who should do (or care about) what... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:14, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Responsible for GPX files on WikiVoyage
Hi there, André

I am looking for someone that is responsible for the implementation of the GPX download functionality with WikiVoyage pages. Unfortunately, there is currently a bug with this functionality. Since, descriptions are added to the GPX file from the original article but without properly parsing them, XML-uncompliant stuff (e.g.  Foo & bar ) ends up in the GPX files, breaking the functionality of Apps like OSMand for smartphones. Which I consider quite severe, because I reckon many people use these GPX files.

Example: http://maps.wikivoyage-ev.org/w/poi2gpx.php?print=gpx&lang=en&name=Tallinn (from https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tallinn upper right corner) (search for "&")

Can you point me to someone that can help me correcting this issue.

Cheers, Ceever (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Heja, hmm, I wonder at which exact point in that chain there is something to correct... Looking at the HTML source, I see id="mw-indicator-GPX" . That link is defined in https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Template:GPX_indicator which would still be on-wiki stuff (also as related T55023 is still unresolved). But if (I do not know) this is something to fix on www.wikivoyage-ev.org, there would be http://www.wikivoyage-ev.org/wiki/Kontakt to contact the folks. Pinging who might know better and is also listed as a contact. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ceever (talk) 23:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I answered on my talk page at the German Wikivoyage. The programmer of all the mapping tools is no longer active -- I will not explain here why. The problem is known to me. The PHP script is parsing the Wiki syntax. Therefore there are not only & but also not expanded templates and so on in the description field of the GPX files. To solve this, I proposed several weeks ago to use a JavaScript script replacing the PHP script mentioned. But my proposal was strongly refused by the English community. At the German Wikivoyage we are using now the new script. I think it is working well. --RolandUnger (talk) 06:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

T161228
Hello again. May you please set the priority of the T161228, which has been ongoing for months? Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 01:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like Nemo already did in the meantime. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:44, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

helpcreatinamailinglist
Ciao, I am traing to create a new mailing list BiblioWiki@lists.wikimedia.org, can you please look if all I write is ok? Thanks --Susanna Giaccai (talk) 15:35, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ciao, please see Mailing lists. Thanks, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring
I discourage you from edit warring in order to impose your own preferred version of a page over the consensus/status quo version. When a controversy arises about a proposed edit, users are encouraged to discuss first. Thanks, Nemo 18:45, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see how obvious improvements to content require broader discussion. If you can offer better ideas, please bring up and discuss your ideas instead of reverting blindly. I don't see a solution offered by you (yet). --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

After Feedback...
I have figured out that there isn't a page for How-to (or variants), but we do have a few pages which could use it as a disambiguation. :) --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:17, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Found another one! Showcase. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 16:52, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

hi
I noticed your name as a subscriber here for the Medical editor stats 2017(request), how do I find out who has been Assigned To this request(it seems there is currently none)?..thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 23:14, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, by looking at the right pane. It says "Assigned To: None". --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:28, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * ok, is there any way of knowing how long it might take to have the request/task assigned to someone?, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:31, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Not in general, no. Someone might decide to work on a task or not. There are no unlimited human resources and there are always more tasks than people. If you want to reach out to the corresponding team for that task, see the links / info on the project page for that corresponding team. Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Re: Phabricator etiquette
Hello,

Regarding this, your advice is totally correct. I know better than to speak that way in plain-text, especially when I don't know who will read it. It's so easy to create misunderstandings, no matter how good my intentions.

What I'm learning from this process, on my home wiki, is that topics can appear "obvious" when we put them to-do lists and look at them over and over and over without taking action. (We believed it was inappropriate to submit issues while using an unsupported MediaWiki version.) But of course Phabricator is seeing the topic for the first time, if I have used the search feature competently. This is in addition to other misuses of the word "obvious" which you noted in your comments. I will certainly solicit further general discussion over there, before I create any more tasks.

I feel obligated to add the following, because someone has posted a patch (wow). In re-testing everything, it is clear that I have not discovered anything urgent. Severe issues have already been reported, or even fixed in a later release, and most minor issues have workarounds (if my local power users haven't invented one, I search enwiki noticeboards). As someone who works with developers IRL, I understand that resources are very limited, and tasks can also be declined by project managers for policy-related or mission-related reasons. I accept all of this and have no expectation that a given task will be resolved soon, perhaps ever. Our motivation is simply to attempt to improve MediaWiki, which seems the least we can do in return for all that it allows our community to accomplish. More specifically, a low priority is not an excuse to provide incomplete documentation, for which I apologize.

Hope that makes some sense, thanks. Xeriphas1994 (talk) 13:51, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message and explanation. We definitely appreciate bug reports and feedback, though (as you correctly describe) developer resources are limited. I also apologize for misinterpreting. Happy to see a patch contributed by a volunteer; maybe you could give it a try and provide feedback? :) Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 19:06, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Sokotet
hello
 * Hi. Please see https://blogs.gnome.org/markmc/2014/02/20/naked-pings/ about putting content into messages. Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Pulling up all bugs
Hi Andre, master of bugs! I wanted to pull up all bugs on Phabricator, so I ended up in the modify search page of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniphest/query/open/ after looking thru https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/How_to_triage.

From there, I clicked on Subtype and saw Bug Report in the List, and searched on that - but I only got 1 item (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T184977). Hunting around, it seems like there are more bugs than just that (e.g., https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T188792) - is there a way to pull the entire list? Also, if I go to edit https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T188792 there does not seem to be an option to mark it as Subtype Bug Report? ImperfectlyInformed (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi! Looks like "subtypes" are an upstream feature that we don't use. I wasn't aware of its existence. There is no reliable way to identify all bug reports among the existing tasks (and I'm personally skeptical if such differentiation makes sense). There has been some discussion about having types in T93499. (And for future reference, best to ask Phab questions on Talk:Phabricator/Help.) Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 23:49, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Ask for help
Dear, Aklapper

Can you help me in this change on gerrit, i tried to enable rollback user right on arwikiquote but i can't add the patch to the change page, and i'm using gerrit web interface. Thanks in advance. --Elbasyouny (talk) 21:42, 14 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I think I figured out how to do it. If you can take a look at the patch(the change) and tell me if there is any mistakes, I would appreciate it --Elbasyouny (talk) 22:09, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not a developer who could review such things, sorry. See Gerrit/Code review/Getting reviews - thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:00, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Template:API
Hi! Kannst Du meine Änderungen auf Template:API sichtbar machen, damit ich diese bei Einbindung der Vorlage auch lesen kann? Ich denke, dass die Version gesichtet werden muss, bin hier aber noch kein Sichter. Danke sehr, Doc Taxon (talk) 11:03, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, was bedeutet "sichtbar machen" in diesem Zusammenhang? Ich bin kein MediaWiki-Spezialist bei solchen Dingen... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:09, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Testing T195761
Testing T195761
 * Second test, now with Chromium 65 browser. --Malyacko (talk) 15:56, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

238482n375 shenanigans at phab
I noticed that you were not re-added as a subscriber on T184675 after the vandal 238482n375 removed you from there on Jun 15. Would you like to do that, or just let it go? (I didn't check that all of that vandal's changes were undone, only on the tasks in projects I was watching.) - dcljr (talk) 20:38, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's alright. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:30, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent vandalism on Phabricator
As an admin on Phabricator, perhaps you might know how to easy revert changes introduced by this vandal? Some of them have been already reverted, but some have not. -- jdx  Re: 12:36, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, please ask general Phab questions at mw:Talk:Phabricator/Help. The task for this specific incident is T198552. Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:47, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Group tasks in a project
As you seems to understand Phabricator

In the project wmse-riksarkivet-tora I will at least have two related tasks for federated search e.g. T199979 and then also with the new Swedish Library system Libris XL. Question is there a best practice to mark/tag/group them as wmse-riksarkivet-tora-federation tasks...? - Salgo60 (talk) 11:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, feel free to ask any Phab questions at Talk:Phabricator/Help (as linked on the Phabricator frontpage). I do not know what "federated search" is and I do not understand the question, sorry. Tasks can have more than one project tag and tasks can have dependencies, for example. Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Publish a Wiki Page
Hello,

I hope this message finds you well. I wrote a wiki page and was not allowed to publish it. What can I do about it? Can you please help?

The message received is the below: "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and has been disallowed. If you believe your edit was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: new user youtube, &c."

Thank you in advance for your help! Regards,

Madalina Lichaa
 * All depends on the content that you wanted to paste and which website you refer to. Is this about mediawiki.org itself? In one sentence, what is the exact content of your new page? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:33, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

AKlapper
 * Hello, thank you for your prompt reply. I wrote a page about TAKREEM, a non-profit organization, it contains several sections, tables and references (some of which are pdfs). Does this help?
 * Please see my previous comment, the link I provided, and the other question I asked. The topic sounds out of scope for mediawiki.org to me, hence if this was created on mediawiki.org then it was probably rightfully deleted. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:16, 9 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello, you are right I was trying to create a Wikipedia article and not a mediawiki page, however, I don't know how I was able to publish TWO pages on the mediawiki with same content (I have requested a speed deletion which requires the approval of an administrator) can you please help? sorry to bother you. I am new to the platform :s the page titles are TAKREEEM and takreem. Sorry again for the hassle...
 * You're in the wrong place. MediaWiki is not the place to post articles about something - that's better served by Wikipedia (a sister project). Leaderboard (talk) 09:09, 10 October 2018 (UTC)


 * yes I realized that, but how can I delete the two pages I created here?
 * If you have created two pages on this very website mediawiki.org please provide direct links to your two pages. Also, please do sign your posts: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Signatures --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:51, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Feel free to ask general MediaWiki software support questions on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk - thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

T211031 and how to do it better
Hello.

I was a person who reported this ticket. For future - what I can do better? As Quality Engineer I want to report defects in best possible way. I would not catch that this is local problem (I don't have such deep knowledge about MediaWiki, I was checking it on en.wiki, but difference between skins from pl.wiki and en.wiki stopped me), but what I can do better next time when I will report something? Can you point something? PMG (talk) 10:38, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi! Very good question and no simple answer as the software architecture is... "complex". Help:Locating broken scripts would explain how to locate errors in scripts, but that would not triggered for T211031 as there is no 'wrong code'. That page explains how to use the  URL parameter though, and that's also what I used in combination with the "Inspector" tool of the web browser's Developer Tools to find out which code provides that small box. So it's not that I had known already that it's a gadget, I also had to quickly investigate. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:15, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Guidance for for introducing a standard set of mediawiki: ns pages for sister wikis
Hey ho. Seeking guidance on setting up a range of mediawiki: ns pages so that the Wikisources can have a standard set of message templates for use with Mediawiki:sidebar. I can see that many of the Wikisources are utilising a similar set of links within the sidebar, and I was starting to standardise them on a set of created mw: ns pages, which is useful for all the standard reasons, though most effectively for getting translations in place. Then I realised that I was doing this the hard way when this should be more of a default set that could be pushed to translatewiki.net. I don't, however, know the process or the best means to set up a standard set on the mw.org side of operations, then push it through to translatewiki. Would you be so kind to provide some guidance on how to do this, or push in the direction on where I can best get that achieved. Thanks. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:09, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, I don't know/understand enough, I'm afraid. What are "the standard reasons"? Has this idea been discussed somewhere already with input from other folks active on Wikisources? What exactly "could be pushed to translatewiki.net"? How/why are MediaWiki: pages related to message templates? Providing a specific example would be welcome to help understanding. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:06, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * )-: seems I was mixing language with other technical terms. Let me try again s:en:MediaWiki:Sidebar has links like random author, random transcription, random work, Scriptorium (as examples) which have organically replicated across many of the WSes. I migrated enWS's sidebar to be Mediawiki: ns 'component-url' and 'component' name pairs; and such these pairs could be replicated per wikisource manually as they currently have similar url code, and therefore could be default code on the url message, just change the content of component name per language. If we have set that properly, we can then apply user's preferred language means that the 'component' name would flow through as well.  So the first part was setting up the aspects within MW, and then flowing these through to Translatewiki. No, it hasn't been discussed as I am looking at the process to put this back to the community. — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:03, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for the explanation! source/mediawiki/browse/master/languages/i18n/qqq.json and source/mediawiki/browse/master/languages/i18n/en.json in MediaWiki core have items like  or  . More such items could be proposed by anybody in a proposed software change (see How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker and Gerrit/Tutorial to be included in the MediaWiki software by default, if that is what you are asking? I don't think I have enough knowledge what's best to discuss such an approach across Wikisource communities though. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:49, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

T214270
Hello

As you are the only person that I know, who is able to use Phabricator :) I have a question: for pl.wikisource is critical to fix this problem. Critical as "You should never ever belive what Commons show you. Please stop editing pages that are using pdf files as "source of scan". OCR tool is lying when it comes to old Polish language and I know that you see this on commons page, but commons is also lying.". It`s much worse than not working tool - its lying tool. How I can increase chance to fix this problem? PMG (talk) 16:02, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, Phabricator/Help explains how to use Phabricator. :) See the latest comment by Gilles - it requires upgrading the version of the "Ghostscript" software which is on the Wikimedia servers that provide Thumbor, and that requires upgrading the servers to run Debian version 9 (Stretch). I do not know how someone can increase chances to upgrade operating systems... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 16:13, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks!
Just wanted to say thanks for your constant and herculean work juggling all the bugs! Thank you ! Sophivorus (talk) 18:14, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I hope it's mostly useful. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 02:25, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Test from my private account
Writing myself, sorry for the noise. :) --Malyacko (talk) 13:49, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

commons
Hi, don't know if this is the right place to put my question forward, but it seems there is a problem. Cannot change typos or anything else whilst creating the category, here for example. Thank you foryour time. Lotje (talk) 05:32, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, not sure why you are contacting me specifically and what you expect? :) I'd recommend bringing up editing problems on c:Commons:Help desk (with clearer steps to reproduce what you're doing and what happens instead), and/or to follow How to report a bug if you are sure that there is a software error in some code running on Wikimedia servers. Thanks a lot! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:13, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your kind help. :-)  Lotje (talk) 13:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

a moment to put your personal appreciation for my proposition
Hi, I have finally requested for translator admin rights at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Requests/User_rights/Wladek92. I would be glad if you could find a moment to put your personal appreciation for my proposition. Thank you. Krystian.

Question
Hello. I have tried to install MediaWiki on my tablet device (Amazon fire) but when it was fully downloaded, it wouldn't open the file. What can I do? Any ideas? --85.193.152.179 18:37, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "If you have general questions, then it is more likely that you get a quicker response in the dedicated support channels, instead of sending me private emails or writing on my personal talk page. Private emails do not scale and do not help others." Hence feel free to ask on Project:Support desk - thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions! --85.193.152.179 18:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Restricted application
Hi AK, sorry for bothering you. I noticed that whenever one creates a task "Restricted application" automatically subscribes you to it. What is this? Can I set it up for myself so that it automatically subscribes me to some tasks? Masumrezarock100 (talk) 19:42, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, that's Herald. (For general Phabricator questions, please use Talk:Phabricator/Help - thanks!) Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 21:03, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

T233763
Did you have access to the stack trace?--GZWDer (talk) 12:28, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure, added. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:04, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Regarding The Error Moving of Phab: T236879
Hello, how are you doing? I am Shu Zhang, my account name on Phabricator is @Kiranofans.

I was recommended by my mentor Ujjwal Agrawal, @ujjwalagrawal17, to send this message explaining my errors in moving the Phabricator proposals.

I have submitted my proposal on Phabricator and once I was asked to move it to the submitted column, I used the WebView and opened the link to the phab project board from my phone, and tried to drag my proposal from backlog to the submitted proposal column but failed, so I found the setting icon on the top right and clicked “Move Tasks To Column...”. I didn't expect that the click would move all the proposals to the submitted column, so to correct my error, I dragged all the proposals other than mine back to the backlog section before informing anyone...

This whole thing started with a mistake and I was trying to fix that, turns out, the fix made the situation worse. And today, my mentor just told me that my Phabricator account has been disabled which was probably due to my overdone behavior, and I feel so sorry for the inconvenience I made for you and others.

I wish if you can consider reactivating my Phabricator account.

My sincere apologies!

Shu


 * No problem (and thanks a lot for the explanation, that is interesting to read from a user experience point of view), mistakes happen! I have reenabled your Phab account. Good luck in Outreachy and thanks for your work! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:05, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Priorizing tasks...
Hey Andre,

I don't understand why you are sending me the information page about priorizing. User:Superbass is being flooded with OTRS complaints, and this issue has a impact on our public image on dewiki. I an not angry that my task is not accepted, let's light this task up, but I really don't see that WMF is doing something against this issue. The de-community, the "vocal people" are annoyed of this function, i didn't knew about this fact before so I switched over to revome the whole feature in the apps. Just please briefly imagine the following scenario:

You have a wounded child, which scraped his knee. You go to the hospital and the doctor says "Oh hey, no we cannot dress the wound because there could still happen bad things like infections! Let's move into the surgery room and remove the whole leg!" And when you go into this surgery room you see that this room is very old and nothing happened here since one year. How would you feel about this?

I made a suggestion, it was declined (indirectly by many people, who have deprived the basis of this task), that's okay. But these people want something to happen and you say let's remove the whole leg by referring to an almost 4 year old task which is de facto dead. Okay you couldn't knew this poll before. But instead of dressing the wound or at least saying "urgh we need a fast solution" you refer to Bug management/Development prioritization which means for me, the whole issue is completely unimportant to you. And by assuming this is true - in mind the comment, which devaluates this survey "I dare to say that does not look like the best survey design to me" - T123442 will not getting into movement.

If the "vocal people" see that the WMF don't care about the vocal people's voice, they'll turn their backs on WMF and the rest of them. --Der Keks (talk) 19:03, 19 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The problem is this: Thousands of people use the mobile apps. For months (!) they have been shown three obviously traffic-manipulated articles as "trending". They notify us and it happens... nothing! This is damaging to the reputation of Wikipedia and WMF.


 * You can fix the problem in three ways:


 * Efficiently improve the filtering of bot traffic
 * Enable and implement manual removal of manipulated items
 * Remove the section "Trending" from the app for a short time.


 * Personally, I don't care what's done, but I really need this to happen fast. A long-term solution can be developed in peace once the manipulated articles have disappeared.


 * Whoever can contribute to it: Please intervene, it's really embarrassing to answer questions about this in OTRS. --Superbass (talk) 20:56, 19 November 2019 (UTC)


 * (Context for other readers: This conversation started in T237206 about T123442, T236121, and T232992.) Hi and thanks for your message. Hmm, I don't see where you made a suggestion which was declined? Regarding "scenarios" in your message above, imagine that you have a child in a serious condition: Your wounded child in your example will have to wait (classic triaging). For the general problem of limited resources and how you could influence planning, see Bug management/Development prioritization. For this specific issue, the WMF Mobile Apps Team might also be able to provide some pointers. (I assume that any answer that I might write here will be disappointing, as nobody has a bunch of developers without any work or any plans in their pocket that they could spontaneously throw at a problem to solve that problem in a day.) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:03, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message, my suggestion was T237206. Bygones; the view-counter is not build like I tought (see last comment) and the whole feature in the app seems not very welcome.
 * I work in project management of software development. We work in teams, collect and refine the sope and priority of tasks weekly, sometimes daily, depends on what's coming in. We also keep in touch with the clients to see what they want. If our services go down because amazon aws made pulled too many fibre cables we priorize a fresh task to get the services running again. That's normal. At the moment some of our customers want to have 24/7 support until february. To reach this deathline the dev-ops team pushed beside what's not important for now and can focus on those 24/7 tasks. So I do unterstand triaging.
 * Why this abusing of the most viewed counter is triaged so low? I don't mean a specific task, but the whole issue. You're degrading the poll on dewiki in T237206#5676030, you referred to a (in my opinion) dead task to solve the issue. That gives a view for me like the issue "abusing of the most viewed counter" is unimportant for the WMF. What is so important at the moment that we can't prioritize it higher? The last closed tasks which are unimportant for me are T228362: Engage the team to understand the current state of documentation and reporting and T238098: vm request for xhgui. Triaging is not done once, you need to triage again and again to be able to pull important tasks near the start of the queue. Maybe you do this but the vm request can wait, because it has no impact to the public image. If we understand the current state of documentation today or in one week that's unimportant. Okay, I know the developer want's to have it's documentation to prevent this but it could wait a moment... I would be really satisfied if the WMF would honour the poll and priorize transparent (saying what are the reasons to don't priorize it higher). If you would say "we have to redepoly codfw which takes 6 days with 10 employees so we cannot solve this abusing of the most viewed counter" we would understand that, I am sure. --Der Keks (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Nor can I understand why this problem has such a low priority. It's only a matter of time before these manipulations are either (shamefully for us) discussed in the media or until they find imitators in large numbers, making the whole instrument of traffic measurement unusable.


 * The removal of the statistics from the app could be an easy-to-implement immediate help. It is completely incomprehensible to me why one does not at least prioritize and implement this measure. Then you will have all the time in the world to develop a sustainable solution. --Superbass (talk) 22:22, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, see the links I provided for who to potentially contact. I don't define what any WMF teams prioritize or work on; that is usually done by WMF Product Managers. Thanks! (Also note that the given example T238098 is in scope for the SRE Team and T228362 is in scope for the Research Team. Both teams have nothing to do with the topic of this conversation.) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 23:44, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

T231844 Paragraph ends are not detected after a hybrid nested list (MediaWiki-Parser)
Hello Andre, can you have a look at T231844, please? It is sitting there untriaged for a long time and it has no subscribers except you and me. Thanks ;) Petr Matas (talk) 11:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, I looked at it but I do not know what specifically you expect from me? Also see Bug management/Development prioritization - thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * It appeared to me that my bug repport slipped through without being noticed, because usually tasks have multiple subscribers and at least some comments. So I thought that you are in charge of adding a few subscribers in order to make sure that the right people know about it and that someone would confirm soon that they can reproduce the bug. I do not expect there to be any time limit on fixing it, though. Petr Matas (talk) 19:55, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for clarifying! It's up to each individual which tasks they subscribe to or which Phabricator project tags they would like watch. I'm afraid that there is unfortunately not enough capacity to try to reproduce every issue... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:13, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Log In
Hi User:AKlapper (WMF) 2 years of Wikipedia access restrictions were lifted in Turkey on 15 January. After this news, I wanted to log into my account. However, I couldn't log in for more than 2 years and I forgot the email address and password. I talked to Administrator User:Vikiçizer, Bureaucrat User:Xeno and Steward User:HakanIst about this. If I learn my e-mail address, I can set a new password. I can learn my e-mail only from someone who can access the database. Can you help me? User:Abecesel.
 * Hi and welcome back! The reply in Topic:Vf6hzy6jha01yw4c says that you should contact Trust and Safety. I agree with that comment. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:40, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

T245362
Lieber André, danke für deinen ausführlichen Kommentar zu meinem Bug, der leider in Lichtgeschwindigkeit als "invalid" geschlossen wurde, bevor ich verstehen konnte, warum. Bitte erlaube mir daher noch einmal die Nachfrage: Verstehe ich dich richtig, dass es möglich ist, das Logo weiter zu komprimieren (nämlich von 46276 auf 20134 Bytes), aber dass wir diese Komprimierung nicht akzeptieren, weil sie nur mit unfreier Software möglich ist? Oder habe ich das falsch verstanden? Danke, --Gnom (talk) 21:36, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, niemand weiss ob die Behauptung stimmt dass das Logo weiter ohne Verlust komprimiert werden kann, bis es jemand ausprobiert die MacOS hat und diese Software installieren mag und die resultierende Datei im Task hinzufuegt. Momentan fehlt ein Beleg dass das Logo weiter ohne Verlust komprimiert werden kann. Falls die Behauptung stimmen sollte, so wuerde die Datei akzeptiert werden, weil es egal ist mit welcher Software die Datei bearbeitet wurde. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:01, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Super, verstanden, danke dir! Gruß --Gnom (talk) 12:29, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hallo nochmal – ich verstehe deinen letzten Kommentar zu diesem Bug als Kritik an meinem Bugreport. Bitte glaube mir, dass ich mir da wirklich Mühe gegeben habe, aber auf der Grundlage meines Wissens und meiner Fähigkeiten nicht zu mehr im Stande war und entsprechend auf die Unterstützung der Community hoffte. Hätte ich den Bug dann gar nicht einreichen dürfen? --Gnom (talk) 13:19, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Es gibt kein "duerfen" - natuerlich jeder kann Tickets erstellen. Siehe How to report a bug: Im Idealfall sollten Tickets klare, spezifische Schritte enthalten, die es jemand anders erlauben, eine Situation zu reproduzieren ohne interpretieren zu muessen. T245362 basiert auf einer anscheinend zu Beginn unueberprueften und bisher unbelegt gebliebenen Aussage. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Richtig, deshalb meine Frage: Hätte ich den Bug deiner Meinung nicht einreichen sollen? Ich verstehe deinen Hinweis auf Phabricator nämlich so. --Gnom (talk) 16:52, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

A request
Hello Andre!

With all due respect, please accept this complaint about your comment on T247203, which I see as being one-sided and unnecessary. Judging from the length of the comments the side-topic - which Reedy called off-topic - is of much greater interest to other participants in that discussion than me. I believe as Reedy was interested in continuing that discussion, the appropriate comment would be to ask both participants to take the discussion elsewhere. As you are both administrators I feel that that affected how you put an end to the discussion. I had no need to further that discussion, I did not even plan to make these two comments, therefore you could have asked kindly both of us.

I assume we don't agree on all points in this comment. I'd like to make it known how this looked from my perspective and I'm not asking for agreement. If we don't agree, I agree to disagree. Having different POVs and being able to collaborate is the fundamental value I cherish the most in the movement.

Thank you for considering these words. With respect, — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 19:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the comment! To me it started to become very off-topic in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T247203#5952301 when random vague statements like "outdated gerrit" or something about "Gitlab" are thrown in. That felt both unhelpful and out of scope, given the specific task summary. Before I commented, it was pointed out twice already that the discussion is off-topic. I agree that I could have phrased my comment in a more passive style - I am sorry for that. (I do not know the exact list of "administrators" by heart and that's nothing I'd think or care about when communicating.) Cheers, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:42, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * , thank You for the explanation. That clarifies a bit the how this was perceived. It seems to me the statements about GitLab and outdated gerrit are much more meaningful to me as I've participated in the move from GitHub to GitLab with some repos - which was the primary solution to the "concerns" about MS at that time -, and using gerrit after GitHub is an experience that I can only describe with "outdated".
 * Particularly the burden and notification spam to others of managing patch chains, which is much better handled with pull requests and way easier to read and understand in sequence. This is a significant source of frustration: I'm close to committing a POC of 30 commits and every hour I'm worrying about how that will break gerrit or one of the feeds and how people will start arguing with me.
 * Just to clarify: from my perspective these are strongly related to the overall experience. However, on that ticket it was just a passing thought, that I intended to mention only, not to make the main topic.
 * Thanks for the discussion and understanding. Have a nice day! — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 05:37, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * While I probably agree with most of what you wrote here, that Phabricator task is not about Gerrit. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

As I have predicted, the infrastructure was overloaded by the 30 commits, resulting in the following comments, much milder than I would have expected: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/skins/Vector/+/578890#message-330b98d266d200efd0beee89345d3cb6eafe8a88 The jobs were aborted, so no more holdup, other than Jenkins being disabled for me temporarily. I've been asking this to be re-enabled, but I can't get ahold of Reedy, who disabled it. May I ask you to re-add my email to the CI whitelist? With appreciation, — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 08:36, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have no idea how to add people to the CI whitelist (or why you think that I am able to do that). Feel free to provide context / docs. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:08, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Emails are added to a yaml configuration file in the "integration/config" repo: "zuul/layout.yaml" like this:  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/integration/config/+/579227
 * Which resolves my request... I assume some people put in some good words. If you too, thank you.
 * Btw, I'm surprised you aren't on the list :-D That would enable jenkinsbot CI tests on every patch you make. — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 02:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Question
Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

Please teach me about which you uploaded and are updating. I want to read the Japanese version of this document. So where is it? I searched in commons, but I couldn't find it. If it is in another place, let me know where it is. I do not care if it is a pdf text or not.

Thank you !!!

HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 00:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

(Oroginal in Japanese)

質問

Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

あなたが、アップロードしてその後アップデートしておられるについての質問です. この文書の日本語版を読みたいのですが、どこにあるのでしょうか. commonsを検索したのですが見当たりませんでした. 他の場所にあるならお教えください. 別にpdfである必要はありません.

Thank you !!!

HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 00:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi! I don't think that anyone has created a Japanese version of it yet. You could create a copy of https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1RYtmKlaEaja1F4T0obS727ARxyiyT3wid3Afr0a81wA/edit and create a Japanese version. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:09, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

Thank you for your answer.

In fact, when I asked the above question, I overlooked that phabricator.wikimedia.org and mediawiki.org are separate projects. For this reason, I misunderstood that there are documentations for each language in phabricator.wikimedia.org like mediawiki.org.

Thank you !!! --HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 16:05, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Request 2
Hello, Andre!

Please allow me to make a request to You regarding your recent comment:

I reckon your job is to monitor phabricator and your work is greatly appreciated, however, I'd like to ask you again to be more neutral and inclusive. This was the second time your comment suggested - with possible repercussions - that I don't say my side in a debate. I'm sure your intent wasn't to police or discourage me from expressing my views, but that's how "if you would like to be active here" comes through.

Please understand that volunteers' efforts are often times not appreciated, not even thanked, or outright disrespected - which is the issue behind the discussion where you've made your comment -. Please do not add to the negativities with such threats, we can discuss this colegially.

If you read something that you feel is wrong, please 1) cite the relevant part 2) discuss it off-ticket, without polluting the technical discussion. You'll find that that will result in a more welcoming atmosphere. Thank you for your consideration.

I'd like to adjust the way I express myself to better suit the local practices. You can help by clarifying what you've found wrong with my complaint, which I've asked on the ticket. You're right you haven't answered there: best to keep the discussion technical, however, feel free to answer here. Thank you in advance, — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 17:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi! I asked you to change your tone and to criticize ideas instead of people. I am quite puzzled that you replied that you "criticized an idea", given phrases like "I'm stunned that you would ignore others efforts and investment", "waiting Your review", "This is not what you promised", etc. Such comments are not productive. Again, see the Etiquette. Thanks, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:53, 8 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the explanation, Andre! This helps understand your comment. I reckon 2 of the phrases you cited critize JdlRobson (duly I might add). To address your request in the future I'll discuss those on wiki, not phab.
 * I am quite puzzled that you replied that you "criticized an idea", given phrases like ...
 * Well, I've written a 2 page long complaint discussing the idea of the patch with overwhelming technical detail, from which you have picked 2 phrases that's personal. "waiting Your review" is not criticizm, I hope we can agree on that. The majority of the comment is, however, 2 pages of technical details, that's why I wrote I've "criticized an idea". Cherrypicking a few phrases from that gives undue weight.
 * Such comments are not productive.
 * Neither counter-productive. In fact, if those statements would have made JdlRobson to understand how much extra work he forced on us and he would have delayed the patch, that would have been a productive result.
 * With these reasons I refute your assertion. Paired with the uncalled-for threat of blocking after some constructive criticizm, I'm very stressed-out of this repeated occurrence, but to address your request, I'll pay attention to discuss only the ideas on phab, and leave the rest for the wiki. In return I'd like to ask you to avoid tone policing my comments.
 * If you want to help - although I don't think you will have the time for this - you can do so by understanding how much effort and goodwill I put into my work voluntarily and how little effect it has, yet I do it, because I believe in improving Wikipedia. I'd like to improve this process, so the community can benefit from volunteering professionals' work. To achieve this I need to discuss the shortcomings of the review process. I'd like to do this without the fear of repercussions if you find something to be personal criticizm. If you could ensure me that won't happen again, it would be great help. Thank you. With appreciation, — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 01:36, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "waiting Your review" (given capitalization) is unneededly personal, as if it was only one single person's responsibitlity or ability to review patches, so we disagree. Of course I "picked 2 phrases that's personal" as that is the entire point which you seem to miss (as you again wrote lines like "extra work he forced on us"). So I will write it again: Please read and follow the Etiquette if you would like to be active in Wikimedia Phabricator. Thank you. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:11, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Capitalization of "Your" is a form of respect in my country, the opposite of how you interpret it. This being a multinational project there are cultural differences, it's best to avoid finding fault where the interpretation is subjective. In short: please do not make a mountain out of a molehill. Regarding the rest: obviously I've read the Etiquette, it's quite short on words and open to interpretation. I accept your request, but refute your assertion as biased: my purpose is not to criticize, but to resolve the issue I've written about.

In response to your recent comment on phab: facts are not accusations, nor do I want to say accusations, my intent was to discuss and resolve an issue. Please do not misinterpret my comments, that is similar to "put words into my mouth". Please understand that implying bad faith where in fact a lot of good faith effort is invested creates a lot of unnecessary stress. I hope to continue a collegial collaboration without all these negatives. Thank you for your understanding, in advance.

Regarding my previous complaint and today's baseless criticizm I had to endure: It seems my concerns are disregarded along with the damage caused and its negative effect on volunteering at MediaWiki. I reckon your comments avoided this question, solely focusing on my actions. Would you say anything that would be helpful in creating a more cooperative environment?

With respect — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 01:37, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In my understanding it has been explained before already how to be more collegial and/or constructive so I don't know what to add, sorry. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:45, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You can add whether you understood the explanation and you'll be more neutral and constructive. — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 22:23, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I pointed out problematic tone and wording as defined in the Etiquette. So far I have not seen comments by others using a tone being in conflict with what is required by the Etiquette, hence I am not sure what could be "more neutral". Not getting personal, not putting words into my mouth which I never wrote, and not stating that the Etiquette includes something it does not would all be constructive and create a more cooperative environment. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This needs clarification. I haven't cited you, therefore I haven't "put words in your mouth". I've written "As Aklapper pointed out, Phabricator is no place for criticism of people". My understanding is that this is what you meant by "Criticize ideas, not people", if you would like to be active here., cited from the Etiquette. If these have a hugely different meaning to you, please explain what is that difference. — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 23:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I never "pointed out" that "Phabricator is no place for criticism." (Full stop; no "of people" suffix.) However, you stated that. That's what I'd call putting words in my mouth. Your original Phabricator comment said "As Aklapper pointed out, Phabricator is no place for criticism, especially not falsely." I replied 31 minutes later in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T246170#6066478 to that original comment. Nine minutes later you edited your original comment and added the words "of people". I now had to look up who wrote what and when. Your previous comment here is quite misleading - it sounds as if you had written "of people" when I replied to you in Phab. You hadn't.
 * This conversation does not feel like a good use of my time anymore. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying that the missing part ("of people") was the reason for your reaction. You could have expressed that in a professional and respectful manner by writing "@Demian: please clarify your comment, I've written that criticism of people is against the Etiquette, not criticism in general." I wish you would have done that in your first comment. Compare this to your actual comment "Please do not put words into my mouth. Nobody ever said that "Phabricator is no place for criticism".". I hope you understand that is unnecessarily dramatic and not helpful in resolving the misunderstanding. You've criticized some of my comments previously as not being "helpful", so please be consistent and make helpful comments yourself.

As you state I've edited my comment to add the missing "of people". I did this openly and transparently to satisfy your strict interpretation and with an apology: I'm sorry @Aklapper for not being clear on that: as I was being criticized, I obviously meant "criticism of people". I've updated my comment to clarify this. Thank you for the feedback, although I do not understand the intensity of your reaction. It is unfortunate that you complain even about this act of good faith and still criticize the original comment, as if you haven't even read my apology for the misunderstanding. With respect, I find that your interpretation focuses on a small, off-topic detail and creates unnecessary drama. This is a collaborative working environment, we focus on resolving disagreements. To participate in a collaborative manner, it is fundamental that we are able to correct our misunderstandings and not get stuck on perceived negatives.

I hope to discuss this issue and your previous comments - about which I've raised concerns in the above discussion - with you openly and collegially to reach a mutual understanding, so that we can cooperate in a friendly manner in the future, without the stress your comments have caused. If you are willing to discuss this issue, please acknowledge my complaint and confirm that you've read and understood my comments above and on phabricator. — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 17:52, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Regarding "put words in your mouth": "To [...] imply that someone has said something which they did not precisely or directly say." No "citation" needed.
 * This thread started about being "neutral and inclusive". If I see communication which violates the Etiquette (such as personal accusations which are neither neutral nor inclusive) and hence has a negative effect on collaboration between humans, then I'll point that out. You asked me to "cite the relevant part", after I answered which choice of words I consider problematic and/or misleading, you stated that "my interpretation focuses on a small, off-topic detail". :) In any case: "Unnecessary drama" (and its potential consequences) could be avoided by following the Etiquette... --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * It's not that simple as you depict. Respectfully, the problem is that you still don't see the comments on phabricator that criticized me, despite that I've pointed at it directly. This is what I've tried to point out to you by discussing neutrality. It seems to me you fundamentally misunderstand or misinterpret this discussion. To clarify: this is a complaint about your conduct. Repeatedly shifting blame on me is not an appropriate answer to that complaint.
 * I understand your work is very valuable and you are often helpful, therefore I don't understand why you make an exception for me. I think you know very well, but if not: you have caused unnecessary harm to me. I hope that you would show a willingness to remedy the damage done, but repeatedly pointing fingers at me instead of answering the questions posed at you won't bring us to a resolution. Will you give a straightforward answer? The last question was briefly: Do you understand the stress your comments created for the reasons detailed above and are you willing to comment in the future in a neutral, friendly and collaborative manner, for ex. by answering questions that seek to cooperate with you (T249676)? — Aron Man. 🍂 edits 🌾 01:50, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd say it is rather simple: In T241670 a person started to get personal. Hence I pointed out the Etiquette. Then a person put words in my mouth. Then I had to correct them in a firm but respectful way by asking to please not do that. To answer your questions: Yes, communication can be stressful after being asked to please follow the Etiquette. I comment in a neutral way. I comment in a friendly manner except for when a more firm manner seems to be unfortunately needed. If there are complaints about my conduct, please contact the Code of Conduct committee so such complaints could be investigated by an independent body. Thanks a lot! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 08:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Please reopen Topic:Vjwvsjtkgaz2kd8x
Hello AKlapper (WMF)  !!!

I have an answer message to your 18:06, 23 April 2020 message in Topic:Vjwvsjtkgaz2kd8x. So please reopen it.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 11:00, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, feel free to reopen yourself if your reply is related to the actual topic ("Do not abbreviate Wikimedia Phabricator as Phabricator") of the conversation, and if it is not about other stuff like ContentTranslation. Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:45, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

About the specifications of MediaWiki
Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

Recently I posted my opinion on Talk:Communication about how to decide the specifications of MediaWiki.

So, please write your opinion.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 07:03, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You seem to comment on a lot of people's personal talk pages to get attention for your postings. That is usually called forum shopping and it is not helpful. Please stop that. Thank you. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

Thank you for participating in Talk:Communication.

By the way, this message you posted on Talk:Content translation seems to be not related to Content translation.

If you posted it by mistake, please correct such as hide.

If you have a message for me, please write it in ja:利用者‐会話:HaussmannSaintLazare rather than scatter it here and there.

You do not need to translate it into Japanese.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 12:48, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

On Topic:Vm44tognk9a77s2n summary
Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

I am going to cancel the summary you created in Topic:Vm44tognk9a77s2n.

The reason is that you have no experience using content translation and you don't understand the implications of the problem raised.

If you disagree with the cancellation, please give a message to ja:利用者‐会話:HaussmannSaintLazare as I will wait for a while. Please include where I should write my reply.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 13:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

About forum shopping
Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

AKlapper (WMF) describes my post as forum shopping in Talk:Communication.

Certainly I'm posting here and there.

But I'm not posting here and there for forum shopping purposes.

I'm posting here and there because the structure of MediaWiki.org is confusing.

It's also hard to see how the MediaWiki.org community operates.

In addition, MediaWiki.org's user interface is different from projects such as Wikipedia, which is another source of my wandering.

Please understand that I'm Alien in a sense at MediaWiki.org.

By the way, I want to change the user interface of User talk:HaussmannSaintLazare like this page.

How can I do it ?

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 13:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki which has many links and explains where to ask questions, instead of contacting random individuals for unknown reasons on their talk pages. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

Thank you for your reply.

AKlapper (WMF) wrote that he don't know why I wrote a message on the talk pages of AKlapper (WMF), Amire80, and Pginer-WMF.

So I will explain the reason.

That's because I thought that the three of you are playing a role in responding to visitors from outside.

One of the reason for thinking so is, AKlapper (WMF), Amire80 (= Aaharoni-WMF), and Pginer-WMF seem to have a special relationship with WMF.

Therefore, it feels strange that you have previously described my message as boring.

I do not intend to personally attack AKlapper (WMF).

However, I feel that the concept of AKlapper (WMF) is a little different from that of general Wikipedia users.

And I think that this is a common phenomenon for MediaWiki developers, and I think that this is part of the cause of the problems in MediaWiki development and maintenance.

I think that I may be possible to contribute to the development and maintenance of MediaWiki by pointing out that, though I cannot write the code.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 23:43, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I did not describe some of your many messages as "boring". Please do not spread incorrect information. In general: Private messages do not scale if there is no reason to contact people individually. Thanks. (Please also use proper indentation for your postings - thanks.) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Please join the discussion on my proposal
Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

I have made a proposal related to the phab:T215403 you are currently participating in. So please join the discussion on my proposal.

Thank you !!!

--HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 10:56, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I do not "participate in phab:T215403". I am only subscribed to that ticket. That is all. Please don't post random stuff about random topics on random user talk pages. Thank you, --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello AKlapper (WMF) !!!

As I wrote the other day, I don't consider you to be random staff. If I am wrong, please tell me the right one.

Thank you !!! --HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 11:41, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

As you should understand, the structure of MedidWiki.org is a little different from that of general Wikipedia. Therefore, my actions have to be fumbling.

One of the reasons I think you have a special role is because you are using the WMFaccount name.

In general Wikiedia we rarely see such account names.

Thank you !!! --HaussmannSaintLazare (talk) 12:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Closing old tasks not fixed by a specific change
What's the best status to close a Phab task with when the reported problem no longer occurs and was probably fixed by a nonspecific unrelated change, like a package update? Bug management/Bug report life cycle isn't completely clear to me on this. Thanks, AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 16:52, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Heja, I think that's a blurry area. If nobody ever managed to successfully reproduce an issue I'd usually go for declined; if it's likely that something got fixed somehow somewhere in the meantime I'd probably go for resolved, preferably without setting an assignee (Phab assigns a task by default to the person who set the task status to resolved). Thanks a lot for all your Thumbor/SVG related triaging lately - super welcome plus I learned a few things from that! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 20:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

You’re not subscribed to a new task
Hi! When I created T256428, you were not subscribed to it by Herald. Is it intentional? If not, you might miss a lot of new tasks. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 21:09, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the heads-up. I ignore some projects (see H9) but it's obviously not a perfect filter rule. Subscribed! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Phabricator account block appeal
Unlike asking for a reenable, I want a clean start, and therefore requests deletion of both ThesenatorO5-2 and NullPointer for a new account associated with both MW and LDAP. Thanks. PythonSwarm (talk) 12:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, we do not delete accounts which already have had some activity as that would make it impossible to understand who performed which actions. It is technically possible to rename user accounts in Phabricator (which does not change the accounts connected via LDAP or SUL; admins cannot changed those connected accounts). (Furthermore, as per Topic:Vrweh427he0i530n, your Phabricator accounts have been disabled anyway so I don't understand why this comment was created, and why this comment added on my user page instead of the Phabricator Help discussion page where there is already a related thread.) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well I just want to get rid of the two old accounts and create a new one connected with both my MW account and the wikitech account. That is why. PythonSwarm (talk) 00:03, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If that was possible (it is not), then your "new" account would be disabled for the reasons that your previous accounts are disabled, so I'm not sure why we're discussing something theoretical (some new account) which could only happen after you have understood and solved Topic:Vrweh427he0i530n but it seems that you chose to not reply to the actual requests in comments. :-/ As explained here twice, this conversation does not feel like a good use of time, so I might ignore future comments in this thread. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 07:22, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Username change Request
Could you please change my username of Phabricator account from 'Jinoytommanjaly' to my current Wikimedia username 'Gnoeee'.- ❙❚❚ ❙❙ GnOeee ❚❙❚ ❙❙ ✉ 14:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, sure - done! :) (For future reference, please bring up such requests on mw:Talk:Phabricator/Help as private talk pages only reach one person - see the frontpage or the "Contact" section on my user page.) Thanks! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * -Yup sure.. :) Thank you.- ❙❚❚ ❙❙ GnOeee ❚❙❚ ❙❙ ✉ 15:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Block appeal
I have created a bot account, and will be operating a bot there to help with maintenance and signing posts. Can you reenable both my accounts so I can change the link of ThesenatorO5-2 to that bot account and still use NullPointer? --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 09:08, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Where exactly is "there", and how does this relate to using Phabricator accounts? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:00, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * First, I created a bot account, so this can be linked to one of my accounts. That account's email will be changed to an outlook email, which would be deleted. --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:05, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * My questions were where exactly (website URL) you created a bot account, and how that bot account relates to some Phabricator account. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:19, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Its name is CosineBot --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:23, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note, not CosineBot, but Uppercase Sigmabot IV --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:24, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I just created the account. Lowercase Alphabot IV --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:26, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I asked twice to provide URLs and to explain which website this is about, and how this is related to Phabricator accounts. You decided twice not to not answer my questions, it seems. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:47, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * EnWiki, but created on meta. --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * For a third and last time: I wrote "how this is related to Phabricator accounts" and I wrote "provide URLs". Again you ignored all of that. This conversation is not a good use anyone's time as you continously ignore questions, plus it seems that you did not even bother to check your own link that you posted: It does not work. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I just want both my accounts reenabled. thanks. I have provided URLs, and I mean that first, this bot account can be linked to one of my phab accounts, and its URL is https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lowercase_Alphabot_IV. So I can use the other one normally. thanks. --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 10:59, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * And I don't understand what your bots have to do with some Phabricator account, and why you keep creating new conversations. Also thanks. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:01, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In this way I can change the link of one of the accounts to this one and continue up with another one. --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 11:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It would be great if you read Topic:Vsyxxi4ihbal6laa and again. It would also be great if you stopped contacting me about things that I have already answered several times, and it would be great in general to provide sufficient context in all postings so people don't have to guess, and it would be great in general not to repeatedly ignore questions but instead answer them. Thanks. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:07, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I just want an unblock man! --PythonSwarm (Talk·Contribs·Global) 11:11, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * That is discussed and explained in Topic:Vrweh427he0i530n, but not by opening more and more threads in random places. I also kindly ask you check this very conversation, to reflect on communication style, diligence, impulsiveness, and to understand why your accounts in Phabricator were disabled. Thank you. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:18, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

FYI: I have blocked PythonSwarm for a month for reasons outlined on their talk page. Those include creating multiple Phabricator ban appeals (such as this one) without addressing the reasons for the ban after being asked to do so multiple times. – Majavah talk &middot; edits 11:52, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Using the Graph module
hi Andre,

I've seen you in the edit history of the Module:Graph and I was hoping you could help me. I know how to use the derivated templates, Template:Graph:Chart and Template:Graph:Lines, but I want to use the Graph module inside another Lua module. I have tried the below code: But I get.

Thank you in advance,

Ajuanca (talk) 23:03, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry, I only imported some revisions from another wiki but have no other knowledge of Graph. Maybe wikt:en:Module_talk:User:Victar/collapse-quote or w:en:Wikipedia_talk:Lua/Archive_4 provide some hints? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:49, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, "That function expects a frame object.", problem found although not the solution. That's an advance, so thank you for linking the talk pages. I'll continue working on it. have a great day, Ajuanca (talk) 15:07, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You can simply skip the wrapper (although an extra table is still needed): . —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:04, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * yes! that was what wikt:User:Erutuon told me, but, as you can see, the problem I'm facing now is the raw output: no graph is generated. Thank you for the response anyway !!Ajuanca (talk) 19:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like actually generating the grap is up to the caller (the documentation says “Creates a JSON object for  to display charts”, not “creates a chart”). You can do so with , where   is the return value of Module:Graph. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 00:00, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * solved. Now it's time to implement it. Thank you so much Tacsipacsi. Stay safe, Ajuanca (talk) 08:20, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Restricted tasks in released software
Hi, there was some chatter on the unofficial Mediawiki Discord server about how there are restricted Phab tasks in released software.

I understand that in some cases these tasks have private-to-people details which we can't do anything about, but I would guess that most CVE findings don't fall under that category of tasks. One particular example task brought up was T260485 in the 1.34.2 release notes.

I'm not personally looking for the details of that task, just checking in to make sure you have a process for unrestricting these and/or catching older ones that should be unrestricted now that a release has been made. This might also be something for User:Reedy to catch (don't know his staff account offhand) since he seems to be patch master right now. --Izno (talk) 18:20, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Worth noting that all security tasks aren't always immediately opened up to the public. Because of the issues with the releases this time around, it did get delayed while the issues were fixed. It looks like I just missed that task when opening the others up later. It does happen on occasion, and usually when people point it out, it can be fixed quickly and easily. I think we might (still) have some previous ones in similar situations too, where there's either still more things to be fixed up, or there's private information in that can't just be disclosed to the public. In those cases, we should probably create a more public task that we can open up. I will double check that task can be opened up, as there are pastes from database queries, so don't want to unintentionally disclose any PII or similar. Reedy (talk) 20:14, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'm not sure why this was posted on my individual user talk page. :) For future reference, for general discussion of Phabricator stuff, please refer to Phabricator pages like Talk:Phabricator/Help. Thanks a lot! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:01, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You are the bugmeister and I have noticed you bugmeistering away with stale tasks before, so I thought you would be the first person to talk to since I know that means you care and/or are keeper of the stale Phabricator queries. :) (I also don't see this as a general Phabricator discussion, but that is opinion of course. Perhaps you would have responded so swiftly there as well.)
 * Either a non-private task with private details removed, or maybe some listing or similar somewhere (maybe directly in the patch notes, maybe a separate Restricted tasks in 1.35) about why it could not be opened to the public (briefly a "private details" or something, or even kept in the title of the task), and/or some sort of Phabricator query that looks for these to make sure they're not forgotten. You seem to have some systematic release methodology; is that documented anywhere in a checklist? Adding a checkbox for these to the checklist would be good too, if they aren't there yet. Just some ideas to make sure these don't fall through the cracks in the future. --Izno (talk) 13:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm currently the Bugwrangler, however Security tasks are definitely also the business of the Wikimedia Security Team and not of the bugwrangler only. :) For future reference, please use Phabricator talk pages for Phabricator topics so topics can get broader visibility. Thanks a lot! :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC)