Talk:Semantic Bundle/Discussion archive

Just thinking...
Nice stuff. How about getting the 'missing' extensions into the MediaWiki SVN also, and possibly stuff all of them in a subfolder 'SemanticMediaWiki' or 'SemanticBundle', instead of having them all at the top level of trunk/extensions/? siebrand 00:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for looking into this. By the 'missing' extensions, do you mean the ones that aren't in SVN at all, or the ones that don't have a tag in SVN, or both? And what's the advantage of grouping them into one place? Yaron Koren 13:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * By missing I mean the extensions that are not yet in svn.wikimedia.org. The advantage of having them all in that svn repo is that all extensions can be (a) supported by translatewiki.net, so have more than excellent localisation, and (b) there are a lot of MediaWiki developer eyes on that svn, which may have a positive effect on the number of Semantic* developers. Grouping them into one place will give the bundle more profile, IMO - aside from allowing developers to check out the trunk for the bundle at once, instead of having to grab the latest versions from wherever they reside. Last but not least: all developers on the Semantic bundle can join forces and all work on the complete bundle. Cheers! siebrand 17:19, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * To add to this conversation, is it safe to assume that all the extensions for Semantic Bundle will be converted to MediaWiki's git repository in the near future (upon quick inspection of extensions tracked in MW git, it doesn't look as though all Bundle extensions are there)?  If so, what is the timeline?  Would there be a Makefile for pulling down all the Bundle extensions (similar to the current SVN one)? --Mtyeh411 (talk) 13:55, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * There's no single timeline - for each extension, it depends on that extension's author(s). A lot of the extensions are mine, so for those, I'll say - I assume it'll happen in the next month or so. Yaron Koren (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Settings not ok
Hi, It seems that the semanticbundlesettings.php is not up-to-date with the bundle. The current version contains Maps and Semantic Maps but it includes good old Semantic Google Maps. --AdSvS 08:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Parser extension version problem?
I just downloaded & installed the semantic bundle zipfile -- it told me that the magic word 'if' could not be found. The ParserFunctions extension downloaded from the bundle is dated 5/25/09. I overlayed the version dated 6/13/09 that I have and the magic word problem went away.--65.117.229.105 06:04, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have the same problem with the "magic word 'if' not found". I'm using mediawiki 1.15.1 - the documentation for parserfunctions suggests a different version of parserfunctions is required for 1.15.1. It would be helpful to document what version of mediawiki has been tested with the semantic bundle. Bluethorn 01:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

typo in folder name
Hi, the folder included in the bundle should be named “SemanticInternalObjects” instead of “SemanticInternalOjbects”. Cheers --kgh 20:21, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's been fixed in SVN but not yet released with the fix; but thanks. Yaron Koren 22:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries, I just wanted to give you a hint in case this was still undiscovered. :-) Apart from that, this hint might save some systemadministrators a bit of time until it is fixed. Cheers --kgh 22:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's true; thanks. Yaron Koren 22:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for inclusion of further Semantic Extensions
I would vote for inclusion of Extension:Semantic_Graph. Is there a plan to include it? --80.122.147.22 11:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi - we haven't thought about it, but maybe that's because we don't know anything about it. The 'graph' format in Semantic Result Formats already includes a subset of Semantic Graph's functionality, I believe. Do you know why it's not the whole thing, and whether there's a plan to move more into SRF? Yaron Koren 13:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Undefined property: SMWTimeValue
I'm getting the following problems after installing this new version of Semantic Bundle:

Notice: Undefined property: SMWTimeValue::$m_errors in /srv/www/htdocs/mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_DV_Time.php on line 384 Warning: implode: Invalid arguments passed in /srv/www/htdocs/mediawiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_DV_Time.php on line 384 

I have some other extensions installing, but this warning appears even in the main page.


 * This sounds like a bug in SMW - you should post a bug report about it, or ask on the semediawiki-user mailing list. Yaron Koren 16:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

MediaWiki Main Page Coming up Blank
After I completed step 4 in the installation steps, I get a blank home page. Commenting out the two entries brings up the home page. What am I doing wrong?


 * See here. Yaron Koren 14:42, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't understand the installation
I do the installation of the bundle but I don't understand the 3rd step : Copy SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php to SemanticBundleSettings.php

You want us to copy all the code contained in SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php at the end of the code of SemanticBundleSettings.php ? Why not be directly integrated with the code ?

Tks for your job.


 * Hi - the idea is so that users don't directly modify SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php, since that can get changed in later versions of Semantic Bundle - just like users update LocalSettings.php but not DefaultSettings.php. If you already created a file called SemanticBundleSettings.php, then you might not need to do any more work. Yaron Koren 09:43, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Missing LocalSettings.php in SemanticBundle-20101001.zip?
I am new to semantic mediawiki. Am I to find LocalSettings.php in SemanticBundle-20101001.zip? I am unable to follow step 4 for installaion. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


 * LocalSettings.php isn't part of Semantic Bundle - it's a file that gets created automatically when you first install MediaWiki. If you have a working installation of MediaWiki, it should be right in the main directory. Yaron Koren 14:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch.

Page security
Hi SB users... I'm wondering which extension you are all using to provide group based page security? The HaloACL extension is the only one I know of that secures semantic data. Are there any others? - Borofkin 05:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Simpler install
A suggestion for improving the install experience for everyone. Add a new file called  to the file package. The file contains: <?php if ( !defined( 'MEDIAWIKI' ) ) { echo "This file is not a valid entry point."; exit( 1 ); }

include_once("$IP/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/SemanticMediaWiki.php"); enableSemantics($wgServerName);
 * 1) Semantic MediaWiki basic installation.
 * 2) More info: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Installation

Then change the install instructions to tell people to copy the  to   and visit the   page. After installation is complete, tell them to replace the  with the file. This way you avoid all the scary looking database errors for everyone that follows the current install instructions.

Versions out of date
Is this still maintained? I thought this was going to be an excellent time saver. Then I checked the version of SemanticMediaWiki. It's not the latest. Of all the extensions in this bundle that one should NEVER be out of date. Now I have to go through and check each extension to be sure I use the latest release. This negates any benefit of using a 'bundle'. Your efforts are reduced to simply being a recommended list of extensions I should check out ONE AT A TIME. Why is there no ReadMe with version numbers in it? Or did I miss it? That should be a MUST HAVE in any bundle like this. ~ 14:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Semantic Bundle contains reasonably up to date versions of all key extensions. If there is some critical update, it will be put in and a new version will be released. Semantic Bundle even includes special bugfix releases of SMW, so you often end up having more up to date code then the latest official SMW release. Obviously you MUST HAVE some trust in the developers maintaining the bundle, and also handle your very friendly comments ONE AT A TIME, but are NEVER going to give you up. --Jeroen De Dauw 15:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Need to fix for MediaWiki 1.17
Gives blank pages. Traced to the enableSemantics($wgServerName); line in SemanticBundleSettings.php

$wgServerName has been deprecated in Mediawiki 1.17 and this needs to be hard coded.

Aubrey


 * Thanks for letting us know about that - this will be fixed in the next version. Yaron Koren 19:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clearing that up. On the support desk, I reported a "Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_STRING [site name here/]extensions/semantic-bundle/SemanticBundleSettings.php on line 7". I feared it was another symptom of failing to properly upgrade to MW 1.17, but this makes a lot more sense. Exactly what is the line we should use to replace it? Cavila 07:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * My guess is that we'll replace it with "$_SERVER['SERVER_NAME']" - that should work for you. Yaron Koren 13:46, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'm now doing without Bundle, working from localsettings.php instead. Localsettings contains a similar line for either the server name or the IP address, but the same line did not work for me in Bundle (using either single or double apostrophes). That's why I asked. It may be that IP addresses don't work in Bundle, but your suggestion looks different altogether, so that could explain things. Cavila 08:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to make sure that folks use "$_SERVER['SERVER_NAME'];" as the new way to put the servername. Folks new to PHP like me might forget the semicolon at the end. I was pulling my hair out for 20 min till I saw my error. (Edited by passing user Brian) 22:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Still no luck in getting things to run. I get my Wiki page fine, but I do not see the Special:SMWAdmin page. I feel that I am close and it is exciting. I think the problem lies in the settings php for SMW. Is there a version online where I can check to make sure things are right? I think somehow the coding isn't lined up correctly for me. I had to go into the bundle setting php to seperate things to get it working. (Edited by passing user Brian) 22:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)


 * What do you see at Special:SMWAdmin? Yaron Koren 14:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I do not see any way to get to it at all. I am using the .zip version of the bundle, MediaWiki 1.17, PHP 5.3.6 and MySQL 5.5. I think it's the SMW_Settings.php that I have to edit. I had to change the SemanticBundleSettings.php before due to the php code being parsed kind of funny. It might have been done during the zipping process. (Edited by passing user Brian) 16:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

What do you literally see if you go to the page Special:SMWAdmin? Yaron Koren 16:36, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * When I type in http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:SMWAdmin, it states that it is an invalid special page. Also there are no links to the SMWAdmin page in my special page either. I also made sure to log on with an administrator account. (Edited by passing user Brian) 18:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you actually including Semantic MediaWiki? Does it show up in the page Special:Version? Yaron Koren 18:57, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I currently see Semantic Bundle in the installed extensions section. I also checked to make sure that Semantic MediaWiki was uncommented in the SemanticBundleSettings.php. I did not uncomment the other extensions because the directions stated that it was best to initialize SMW before uncommenting everything else. Am I supposed to see each extension on their own in the Special:Version page? (Edited by passing user Brian) 19:22, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * No, just SMW. Yaron Koren 19:42, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you need to have a look at my SMW_Settings.php? My SemanticBundleSettings.php seems fine. I checked it against a version I saw online and my Wiki page loads fine. (Edited by passing user Brian) 20:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Does SMW show up in Special:Version? Yaron Koren 20:31, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * No just Semantic Bundle. (Edited by passing user Brian) 20:38, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Do you have SemanticBundleSettings.php included in LocalSettings.php? If you don't, then you should. If you do, then this whole thing is very strange. Yaron Koren 20:45, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes I have it as
 * require_once( "$IP/extensions/semantic-bundle/SemanticBundleSettings.php" );
 * require_once( "$IP/extensions/semantic-bundle/SemanticBundle.php" );
 * (Edited by passing user Brian) 20:53, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay - the problem must be in the enableSemantics call, then. Instead of that $_SERVER thing, try just hardcoding the domain name, or IP address if that's what you're using. Yaron Koren 20:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Bingo that did it. I used enableSemantics('SERVER IP ADDRESS'); and I see the section for SMW. I also saw the logo on my main page. Thanks for all the prompt replies. (Edited by passing user Brian) 21:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * On local install I added the following lines to localsettings.php - then it worked. cheers, --Gego 16:39, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Server Name Variable Set 4 Semantic Bundle on local install
 * $wgServerName 	= "localhost";
 * $serverName  	= "localhost";

Little Errors
As I got some errors, I had to tinker around a bit.
 * 1) Strict Standards: Only variables should be assigned by reference in C:\Tools\xampp\htdocs\infobase\extensions\SemanticMediaWiki\specials\SearchTriple\SMW_SpecialSearchByProperty.php on line 259
 * Change php.ini error-reporting to E_ALL (cosmetic)
 * 1) 2 Extensions need more rights than I've got (make tables) and produce database errors: PageObjectModel und ApprovedRevs
 * don't use

Thought, I'll let u know. Great bundle!!! --Gego 19:54, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Moving to the SVN version?
If I have a 'static' versions of the extensions in SB, is it possible to move to the SVN install method? I'd like to use SVN to have easier control of upgrades. The problem is that, for example. SemanticMediaWiki has no .svn, and to 'checkout' I have to do a tricky renaming procedure for all the extensions in the bundle... Is there an easy way to switch to SVN from a 'static' version? --Dmb 08:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I would just get rid of the static Semantic Bundle code, and get the SVN version of everything - nothing against Semantic Bundle, but if you have SVN I think it's unnecessary. Yaron Koren 22:23, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I really like the way I can just 'make' in SB to get the latest release versions of all my most commonly used extensions. Without SB, it's at least a 30 minute job to check that all extensions are 'up to date'. --Dmb 12:54, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

SemanticWatchlist problem
SemanticWatchlist is part of the Semantic Bundle, but can not be initialized in SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php. Why? Paweł


 * That sounds like a mistake - it will be added to SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php in the next version. Yaron Koren 19:32, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Not the latest version of Data Transfer?
I noticed that Semantic Bundle 20110824 includes Data Transfer v0.3.6, while the latest release is v0.3.8. Is there a reason not to include the latest version? Remco de Boer 19:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Oops - no, that's just a mistake. Yaron Koren 19:33, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Externals?
Why modify svn externals? Why not just svn co / update?

Perhaps there is some reason using externals is cleaner (I'm not great at svn), but it seems like it should be unnecessary, and adds some complication.

Cheers, --Dmb 12:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Problem with PHP 5.1.6, MW 1.15.5, SB from SVN
This line seems to cause some problems: enableSemantics( parse_url( $wgServer, PHP_URL_HOST ) );

I changed it to the standard: enableSemantics( 'mydomain.com' );

but that didn't fix the problem.

Ah, just found this was a SMW compatibility issue with 1.15, which has now been fixed in the latest SVN version of SMW. By using SB's 'make ext-dev', everything is now working. I guess this fix will make it into a release sometime soon. Thanks to Yaron and Jeroen for fixing this issue so promptly on IRC (irc://irc.freenode.net/#semantic-mediawiki). --Dmb 14:24, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

ArrayExtension to be changed as Arrays
Hello, after the changes in that extension, lines should be changed as well in: https://code.google.com/p/semantic-mediawiki-bundle/source/browse/trunk/SemanticBundleSettings.sample.php --Toniher 16:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Oops - you're right. That will be fixed in the next version of Semantic Bundle. Yaron Koren 02:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Is there any alternative URL to download the Semantic Bundle
Hi, Semantic Bundle Guru! Is there any alterative URL to download the Semantic Bundle? The URL on the page doesn't work for me, but I can access the URL: http://code.google.com. That's wierd! Thanks. --Linforest (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi - no, there's no alternative URL, but the current URL should work - it's working fine right now. Yaron Koren (talk) 14:04, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Yaron! But it still doesn't work for me now. --Linforest (talk) 23:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you see when you go to this page? Yaron Koren (talk) 01:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Firefox told me:


 * Chinese Error Message
 * Page Title: 连接被重置

载入页面时到服务器的连接被重置. * 此站点暂时不可用或者太忙. 请稍后重试. * 如果您无法载入任何页面，请检查您计算机的网络连接. * 如果您的计算机受到防火墙或代理服务器的保护，请确认 Firefox 被授权访问网页. 
 * English Error Message(translated from the above by Google):
 * Page Title: The connection is reset

Connection to the server is reset when the page is loaded. * This site is temporarily unavailable or too busy. Please try again later. * If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection. * If your computer is protected by a firewall or proxy server, make sure that Firefox is authorized to access the web page. 

Thanks, Yaron! --Linforest (talk) 11:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * My only theory is that you're trying to access this site from China, and it's currently blocked there. If that's not the case, I have no idea - try accessing it from different browser, or a different computer. All I know is that that page has worked for me, every time I've gone there (including now). Yaron Koren (talk) 13:31, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Linforest (talk) 22:16, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * IE said the server couldn't be found. --Linforest (talk) 04:36, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Good news! I can access this site now! Thanks, Yaron! --Linforest (talk) 13:22, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Can't run update - Bundle file missing?
Note: I'm posting this here because I think I have a missing piece from my Semantic Bundle. I've tried to install two extensions that require an update to the database tables and the update fails with the following error messages for each. Warning: include_once(languages/SMW_LanguageEn.php) [function.include-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/content/65/6092565/html/scientolipedia/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_Setup.php on line 647

Warning: include_once [function.include]: Failed opening 'languages/SMW_LanguageEn.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/php5/lib/php') in /home/content/65/6092565/html/scientolipedia/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_Setup.php on line 647

Fatal error: Class 'SMWLanguageEn' not found in /home/content/65/6092565/html/scientolipedia/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/includes/SMW_Setup.php on line 651

Being a noob, I can only guess I'm missing this "SMW_LanguageEn.php" file? If so, any guidance on where I would find it and do I just stick it in the "languages" folder? Thanks, DaveL (talk) MediaWiki 1.18.0,PHP 5.2.17 (cgi-fcgi),MySQL 5.0.92-log, Semantic Bundle (Version 2011-08-24.20111208-dev)


 * I don't know what exactly is causing the error, but I would recommend getting the newest version of Semantic Bundle. Yaron Koren (talk) 02:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Yaron, I'll try it. DaveL (talk) 04:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Installing the latest SB didn't fix it. Same error message. (except the line #'s at the ends went to 508,508 & 512 respectively) DaveL (talk) 00:41, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright - it looks like the value for the variable $smwgIP is getting messed up (it's being set to blank), although I don't know why. Could it be getting set in LocalSettings.php? Otherwise, I have no idea. Yaron Koren (talk) 02:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I posted the issue to the Project Support desk and Bawolff suggested I disable SMW, run update then re-enable. That worked and I have LQT running. As far as $smwgIP getting set in LocalSettings.php, I don't know enough a about all this to give you an immediate answer. I've never knowingly done anything with that and not sure what I'd be looking for. I will try to figure it out because I also can't get AdvancedMeta extension to install although that gives a completely different error message. Thanks Yaron. DaveL (talk) 05:03, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

FYI I'm still experiencing this issue, with latest semantic bundle & Mediawiki 1.19.1216.127.123.116 15:11, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I have had the same problem, running diagnostics I have found the following:
 * The variables set in extensions\SemanticMediaWiki\SMW_Settings.php are not set globally (is this file included in a class during update.php? Because this would explain the error) if you add the following "global $smwgIP;" to the file, the specific problem is solved, however you run into a bunch of other problems, since you need global for all other variables in the file. Regards Peter

Problem downloading from code site
I am trying to download the bundle for implementation.

When i goto the supplied links, i see the 7zip, tar-bal, and zip files but when i goto click the link and download it fails to download the file. No errors or response out of Win7 once the download is refused, just failure to download.

Any suggestions on how to resolve this? Goldbishop (talk) 02:19, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The download links are working fine as far as I can tell --Jeroen De Dauw (talk) 19:16, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

externals vs. externals.dev
Hi SMW Ninjas! Downloaded using SVN and used the ext-dev option. Noticed that ApprovedRevs and SemanticFormsInputs are not in externals.dev. Could I just include them in externals.dev and do make ext-dev, or is there a specific reason why those two extensions have been ommitted? Thanks in advance! --Jnatividad (talk) 18:12, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi - no, there's no reason why they're not included in externals.dev - that file is just not well-maintained. You can definitely feel free to add them. Yaron Koren (talk) 19:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Semantic-Bundle dir or SemanticBundle dir ??
Hi, I am very new and having problems configuring LocalSettings.php. Could someone who is more experienced than me check the directions on this page? It tells us that the files are to be found in the semantic-bundle directory, but I've downloaded from git, and the default appears to be a directory called SemanticBundle. It it a mistake..? Open Research (talk) 16:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC) So please please, can anyone point to a guide (or help forum) that explains what code to add to LocalSettings.php to enable SemanticBundle after downloading through git? I'm using Mediawiki 1.21 neither the 'require once' nor 'semantic-bundle' appear to work.

I solved the problem by downloading the zip file from the Googledownload page instead, and moving all the extensions up a directory. - but now I'm having a different problem, so perhaps this was a bad move :(


 * I updated the documentation to reflect our move to git and the directory name change from semantic-bundle to SemanticBundle. The old release archives still contain the former name though. --Jeroen De Dauw (talk) 19:21, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Jeroen! Open Research (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Database returned error "1146: Table  doesnt exist
I've been trying to install SMW Bundle all day and now that it has worked, I am having some sort of bug that appears after I edit a page. The text that comes up is:

I see now I need to Initialise SMW I can see that lots of other people have been having the same problem, so I shall leave this here for them. Open Research (talk) 21:38, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry to hear it took you so long to install it. We really should make a more up to date release of the bundle soon and fix the instructions. Anyway, the error you have is because the SMW tables have not been creates since you did not run update.php. --Jeroen De Dauw (talk) 19:23, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

compatibility issue, or: content of ask-query disappears after re-editing
I came across a funny behavior using an ask-query: Part of an ask-query disappears after successfully saving and parsing. Take the following query (german wiki setup):

After re-editing it looks like this - main query-content disappeared:

Set-up:
 * MediaWiki 1.19.2
 * Semantic MediaWiki Version 1.7.1
 * Semantic Bundle Version 20120327

I got the hint, that the integrated tool 'SQFT' is not compatible with SMW > Version 1.6. Is this likely to be the source of the problem? Having installed the latest of all software-bundles and being a MediaWiki and SMW-novice, I do not know, how to replace SQFT.

Any hints are much appreciated! (See also http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:SemanticQueryFormTool#After_saving_the_page.2C_query_results_disappear)

T-maios 13:11, 2012-10-16


 * Assuming the issue is caused by SQFT - SQFT indeed doesn't work with the latest code. You could try using the Special:RunQuery functionality in Semantic Forms instead - it may be able to do everything you need. Yaron Koren (talk) 13:38, 16 October 2012 (UTC)