Talk:Talk pages project/Usability/Archive 2

Big white space at the top of the page
I added an archive box to this page to demonstrate the issue (by the way, this page is quite long, so it may make sense to actually fill it 😉). Three factors combined cause the big white space at the top of the page: An even more extreme example (would be, if topic containers were already enabled in project namespace) hu:Wikipédia:Kocsmafal (jogi), where the only topic is much shorter than the floating boxes. Imagine how would it look like if there was no TOC and the topic started below these boxes… —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:18, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Floating archive boxes. They are quite common in user and other non-article talk namespaces.
 * New Vector’s new TOC. Traditional tables of contents at least partially fill the white space (unless they’re also floated, which usually happens only on a few very busy community pages), but the new TOC is moved out of there, leaving nothing behind.
 * on topic containers, which prevents the first topic to fill the white space.


 * Great spot, @Tacsipacsi and I'm sorry for the lag in responding here.
 * I think I've captured this issue you are identifying here within T315581. Although, if you think there is anything missing or inaccurate about the task description, please let me know or adjust it yourself :) PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 16:15, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The Editing team talked about the  question this week.  I think we'll see some improvements there soon.  Please let us know if the new "fixes" turn out to be new "problems" instead. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:31, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Localising Topic Containers
I would like to localise the Topic Containers. When I use 'uselang=qqx', I cannot see the message name for the 'days ago' / 'months ago' phrase. From where does that come and how can it be translated? The Discoverer (talk) 07:02, 9 August 2022 (UTC)


 * They come from MediaWiki core. I don’t know the message names, but you should find them in the list of all core messages on Translatewiki. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 20:03, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. The Discoverer (talk) 10:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The messages used on Wikimedia wikis are actually not those defined in MediaWiki core – they are provided by the CLDR extension using data from the Common Locale Data Repository. I've never done it myself, but I found some instructions for contributing as Wikimedians at https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR. Matma Rex (talk) 02:38, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Matma Rex. This makes sense, because even after translating the relevant messages of Core, the ago phrase is still not localised. The Discoverer (talk) 08:09, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The Discoverer, the "official" list for DiscussionTools is at https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?action=translate&group=ext-discussiontools-user&language=hi&filter=%21translated
 * Some messages appear at TranslateWiki before they appear on wiki. Messages in the prototype/test systems may not be in TranslateWiki yet. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:36, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

the hr tag with clear:both causes big vertical boxes to make a big blank space
See my talk page at esW. That's all. Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 15:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)


 * hi @Ignacio Rodríguez – thank you for stopping by to report this issue. We're going to work on fixing this in T315581.
 * Note: if you see anything missing from or inaccurate in T315581, please let me know so that I can fix it. PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh! And if other thoughts/ideas/concerns strike you as you are using the new heading design, I'd value knowing :) PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 16:14, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Ignacio Rodríguez, the Editing team talked about this problem this week, and I think we'll see some improvements. Please post again if the "improvements" turn out to cause a new problem. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:40, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Whatamidoing (WMF), thanks. I'll keep an eye on this Ignacio Rodríguez (talk) 00:02, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Feedback: Awesome Aasim
I like the second design a bit, but I also like the idea of having two buttons for the same function, one at the top and one at the bottom. I think the "new topic" button could also be sticky in the corner to allow for quicker creation of new sections from anywhere on the page without having to scroll. I don't see any prospective issues with these designs as they seem intuitive for message boards. I would probably also like to see if the page could be formatted like a discussion board (i.e. the current Flow on MW and the new Discord forum channels) as it makes it obvious that the talk page is for discussion. I find it most frustrating when new users do not properly format their comments and the bot has to fix them. I feel like there might not be enough cues on a talk page to indicate that the page is for discussion. I'd still have a "switch to wiki page" to allow experienced users see the old talk page design :D Aasim 00:35, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking the time to review the designs, @Awesome Aasim :) Some comments and questions in response below...
 * 1) ...I also like the idea of having two buttons for the same function, one at the top and one at the bottom.
 * Question: Would it be accurate for me to think that you like the idea of the two buttons because, as you went on to say, two buttons would, ...allow for quicker creation of new sections from anywhere on the page without having to scroll.?
 * 2) I would probably also like to see if the page could be formatted like a discussion board (i.e. the current Flow on MW and the new Discord forum channels) as it makes it obvious that the talk page is for discussion.
 * +1 to the importance of making it obvious to people, particularly to those who are new, that talk pages are meant for discussion.
 * In fact, a key goal of the Usability Improvements we are making is to do just what you described.
 * Question: With the above in mind, what do you think of the talk page we're talking on now? Do you find that its design effective in demonstrating to people that this page, and others like it, are meant for communicating with other volunteers? PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 23:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I think this is an improvement, but I think there should be a few customization options in terms of the layout. Having the talk page collapsed and allowing the threads to be sorted by date updated will allow for easy navigation through discussions. Aasim 23:49, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Feedback: Ad Huikeshoven
Thanks for the ping. First of all, here on mediawiki there is already an 'add topic' button on top of the page. Nonetheless, I have looked at the designs. I discovered there is a new Vector skin, and the current default skin is now called Vector 2010. I compared the designs with the current situation. For the new skin I had to adjust my eyes to see the familiar buttons below the title instead of above. After that I disovered that in the design the add topic button is in the place where the language selector drop down button is now, and wonder where that one has moved.

For the old skin, an add topic button at the bottom looks good. I do agree with Awesome Aasim that it would be okay to have them both. Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 14:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The "Add topic" button on this site is in Vector 2022's "sticky header". It's not visible until you scroll away from the top of the page.
 * If you'd like to compare it, you can see this talk page in Vector 2010. (No new buttons have been added to the old skin [yet?].) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping.
 * You bet – thank you for promptly having a look at the designs and sharing what you think of them, @Ad Huikeshoven :)
 * First of all, here on mediawiki there is already an 'add topic' button on top of the page.
 * If it would be accurate for me to think that you are referring to the "Add topic" button that appears in the "sticky header" that stays present as you scroll this page, then great spot.
 * I should note that the designs I shared above are for cases when that "sticky header" is not available, as @Whatamidoing (WMF) mentioned above.
 * ...I disovered that in the design the add topic button is in the place where the language selector drop down button is now, and wonder where that one has moved.
 * In the Vector (2022) skin on pages where this new "Add topic" button would appear above the "Read," "Edit," and "View history" links, the language selector drop down button would appear next to this new button. You can see a screenshot of what we have in mind here:
 * New Vector Add Topic Button Mockup (desktop).png PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 23:37, 25 August 2022 (UTC)