Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Archive7

Black Friday
Hi. Is it really a good idea to change stars color on every page page in watchlist from blue to black? IKhitron (talk) 12:15, 18 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi User:Ikhitron, why is it not a good idea from your perspective? Your thoughts around the value of colored icons is welcomed on T317710. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:39, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Because for me it looks very unintuitive. IKhitron (talk) 20:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Page tools deployment
When do the new menu for page tools (Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Features/Page tools) will be deployed? From this edit I understand that sometime after 12 January 2023. Why? I hate to open the sidebar anytime when I want to acces the page info, the contributions list, the user logs... -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 15:18, 22 November 2022 (UTC)


 * We have only just begun building this feature and need time to build it first :-). Note, there are limited deployments in December (see recent wikitech-l thread) so this also contributes to the projected date of January. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Amazing work
The new redesign makes Wikipedia far more modern and usable. Thanks all of the developers for your work! CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC)


 * i like it, too. Dnvuma (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @CactiStaccingCrane and @Dnvuma. I'm very glad to read your comments! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:31, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Link to edit the lead is above the link to edit the whole article
I switched over to the 2022 Vector skin temporarily to test something (WMF still hasn't fixed the width problems? Yikes!), and I noticed that the [ edit ] link that allows editing of the lead section (this may be a gadget?) is aligned on the right side of the line containing the article title, while the link to edit the entire article is below that, on a link with Read/Talk/etc. The [ edit ] link to edit the lead should be below the whole-article Edit link, at the top of the lead section. Jonesey95 (talk) 17:15, 24 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @Jonesey95, what width problems are you referring to? If you mean the ability to switch between the limited and full width, there's been a preference for some time now, and ~1-2 weeks ago we added a toggle placed in the bottom right corner of your screen if the screen is wider than 1600px.
 * Regarding the [ edit ] link, I'll talk to my colleagues and see what's possible. And yes, this is a gadget. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The width problem is that the body of the article is much too narrow by default, as hundreds of editors have told the WMF for months. Logged-out readers won't have access to preferences, and 1600px is too wide for a minimum "show a toggle" setting; my 1280px screen is fine in every other skin, but 2022 Vector makes a hash of article layout. I just ran into a problem this week at en.WP (see this discussion) where, because the 2022 Vector body width is so narrow, a batch of articles might have to be manually modified to avoid poor content flow in the articles for the vast majority of readers (i.e. logged-out non-editors using what will no doubt become the default skin). The affected articles look fine in every skin except one. It reminds me of the browser wars, where pages had to be tweaked manually so that they displayed properly for different classes of viewers. I thought those days were gone. Jonesey95 (talk) 18:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Same issue here (that is: section title not the width deviation): unexpectedly, the [edit] order for Article and Top section is in illogical order. Using Vec2022 for a month or so, still not "used" to it (of course, the swap is a mental trick to "learn" by Pavlov not a new feature). DePiep (talk) 15:56, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Contribution button
There is a Watchlist button but not a contribution button. I use the contribution page way more often then the watchlist. बडा काजी (talk) 00:29, 20 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Jdlrobson (talk) 22:43, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd really like direct access to my Special:Contributions page, and have heard similar from a few colleagues & peers.
 * Use-cases: It's the easiest way to access "What was I doing yesterday?" or "How did I implement that related fix a few days ago?" or "I need to add something else at that page I just edited a few moments ago". Some editors use it as their general reminder list. I access it multiple times every day.
 * I tried to hack it together with user.js, which half-works, but I can't determine how to use the icon instead of text (screenshot). How do I do that? Or…
 * Ideally, I could do it in pure CSS, so that it can be part of my Vector-2022-condensed.css, but I'm not sure if that's possible?
 * Advice appreciated. –Quiddity (talk) 01:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi @बडा काजी - thanks for your feedback. The current user menu is based on the usage of different navigation elements across logged out and logged-in users.  The contributions link is now available in the user menu, immediately next to the watchlist button.   OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 16:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Graphic frame of the page looks unclear
The graphic frame of the page outline is broken,

The connection between the text and the image is unclear, bad.

Return the last version, please!

Thanks Dobroš (talk) 04:41, 22 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @Dobroš. Sincere apologies for such a delay, I don't know how this section got lost ://
 * Can you tell us more what you're referring to as the graphic frame? You may be interested in reading our FAQ section about the limited width and the detailed feature page about the limited width to learn why we've made this change.
 * If you like, you may also reply in Czech. I could ask @Martin Urbanec (WMF) for help if I don't understand something. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Logging-out via sticky header
When I try to log-out via sticky header, I always have to click twice: once on the log-out button, then on the blue button from Special:UserLogout. This is annoying. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 13:15, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey @NGC 54. I don't know, this may just as well be a solution to the problem of too many misclicks... I've reported on Phabricator, let's maybe continue the discussion there. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Font is too small by default for a 24-inch monitor, compared to Timeless
It’s more difficult to read an article because the font is simply too small (24-inch monitor; approximately 218 pixels per inch).

Is the font size adjustable without editing CSS?

Or can the developers simply change the font size to be the same as Timeless, which is readable on a 24-inch monitor? Stephenamills (talk) 03:18, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @Stephenamills! Thanks, that's a good point. Yes, it is possible to increase the font size. In the future, we will perhaps talk to the communities about doing that and making the content area a bit wider. Here you can read more about why we would like to do that.
 * In my personal CSS, I've got this:
 * I wouldn't recommend everyone to copy this or make it the default on any wiki, but this should be working for individual users. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't recommend everyone to copy this or make it the default on any wiki, but this should be working for individual users. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:44, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Give more time to allow discussion in Spanish Wikivoyage
Give more time to allow discussion in Spanish Wikivoyage before deploying the new skin. This topic has not been commented yet and the community thoughts and improvement suggestions could be useful. --Onwa (talk) 14:26, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The first comments from the discussion showed up that the new skin forces the project to make redesign fixes to the Main Page. Some other visual templates (pagebanner, EstáEn, Routebox, Lista de regiones, ...) are still being evaluated, but some of them does not have major issues. We'll keep you informed. Onwa (talk) 00:34, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hola @Onwa. Muchas gracias por tu mensaje. Te respondo en español, pero si prefieres que nos comuniquemos en inglés, solo házmelo saber. Te informo que Vector 2022 no será activado en Wikiviajes de manera inmediata, probablemente será en torno a febrero de 2023 cuando se convierta en la skin predeterminada en es.wikivoyage. Daremos aviso a la comunidad cuando tengamos una fecha más cerrada. Por tanto, hay tiempo para seguir discutiendo y evaluando aquello que sea necesario. Por favor, si hay algo con lo que podamos ayudar o que quieras hacer llegar al equipo, o si tienes cualquier duda, puedes responder en esta página (en el idioma que prefieras) o contactar directamente conmigo (y yo me encargo de trasladar el mensaje a la persona indicada dentro de la WMF). Muchas gracias. Un saludo. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 18:15, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Visual improvements
I love them! My general preference is for option 1 for most of the improvements, but personally option 5 for the TOC is compelling. I feel that it's a fresh look that emphasizes the level 2 sections when navigating subsections well. Cheers! EpicPupper (talk) 02:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

The proposed design at phab:T314727 looks better than the current one. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 22:33, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks @EpicPupper. I'm glad you like it. It looks like we've made all (?) of the planned visual refinements except for the font size increase, but that's because we've decided to make it a topic for a different discussion later, after the deployments. Talk to you soon on English Wikipedia! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 01:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "It looks like we've made all (?) of the planned visual refinements except for the font size increase"

Trouble With Zooming In
My vision is poor so I usually zoom to 200% on my browser and it is no problem. With the new skin that same magnification causes the sidebar to take up the top of my screen and I can't see the title of the article and know what page I'm on without scrolling. 19:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Moving article tools.jpg
 * Hello, thank you for your comment. I'm sorry it took so long for us to notice it! We have changed how the sidebar works on smaller screens (and, I presume, on any screen with a large zoom set up). I hope it works better now. Soon, we'll also move some links from the sidebar to the other side of the screen. This will make the sidebar shorter. I'm curious what you think. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Article overview
Having some experience with software redesign and the resistance of the old guard, I decided to challenge my own conditioning. I have to say I can live with the new interface. I would however have liked the article overview (section headings) to come up higher (perhaps in a scrollable box of fixed height so that other links are in predictable and constant positions). Shyamal (talk) 09:06, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I found two issues that affect me (a minority user no doubt) (1) using the reader view of Mozilla Firefox (on Windows) - some long articles on en.wiki with the new vector skin do not produce a clean uncluttered page as before (see for instance en:Allan_Octavian_Hume). (2) the Firefox add-on Who Wrote That which I use as a convenient tool does not work with the vector 2022 skin. Shyamal (talk) 15:36, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey @Shyamal, sorry for replying late. Thanks for the positive comment!
 * About Who Wrote That?, I've informed the Community Tech team who has developed that tool. Hopefully, they'd be able to update the code. (Unless something has changed and it's working now?)
 * The Reader view, this problem is tracked on Phabricator here: T318099.
 * Regarding the table of contents, does it work for you now?
 * SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:18, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I just switched back to Vector 2022 - yes, I see Who-Wrote-That now working and TOC looks better than it was before. Look forward to seeing the Reader View fix as well. I really know how sometimes one just has to go away from some older underlying library dependencies and problems which are sometimes hard to explain to end users. Shyamal (talk) 07:24, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Creation of new template - issue
Hi, I tried new vector (2022) on mk.wiki, and when I want to create new template, I cannot insert any data in the open window. How is that possible? I did not have any problem with old vector. --Ehrlich91 (talk) 08:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @Ehrlich91, my apologies, we must have not noticed your question somehow! :( Is this still happening? I doubt if this is about the skin (and no one else reported any similar problems) but if you still face this, we'll try to help. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 19:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF) Now, it is completely fine. Probably, you are right, in that moment it was something else, not connected with the new skin. --Ehrlich91 (talk) 08:25, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Custom language switcher
Hello. Is the a way to create a new language switcher intentionally? Something as  that will create another language swicher, at the transclusion place, for the parameter Wikidata item, not relevant at all to the regular page switcher, based on this page's item. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 02:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @IKhitron, that's interesting. This seems like a question to Language team though because we only decide about the location of the button, and they decide how it works. I've informed them about your question. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * This is not an official answer from the Language team :)
 * @IKhitron, it may be technically possible using some JS and CSS tricks, but what exactly do you want this language selector to do? It's called universal because it provides the selection interface, but what selection means is totally custom and up to the developer. Amir E. Aharoni &#123;{🌎🌍🌏}} 09:13, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, how? While we have interwiki for redirects now, I'd like to have a way to navigate from a section connected to an article. IKhitron (talk) 13:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Sticky header
Overall, I like the sticky header. But I would like acces to sticky header while editing (I often use the search widget while editing) and while viewing special pages like Recent changes and histories (while looking in the history, I often want to edit the page or switch to another language). The lack of access to alerts and notices (notifications) and sidebar in the sticky header is annoying. I have a access Beta in the sticky header, but not to the notifications? I use the notifications daily, while the Beta link almost never. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 15:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * @NGC 54 I agree that it would be useful to have notifications in the sticky header. Regarding the sticky header in editing mode, ping @PPelberg (WMF) @ESanders (WMF). AHollender (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Adaptacion a lo ancho de pantalla
Hala, en general me parece bonito el diseño de interfaz vector 2022 pero deberian adaptarlo a lo ancho de las pantallas anchas, si una pantalla es de 16:9 (estandar actual) hagan la pagina en 16:9, si la pantalla es 4:3 (actualmente descontinuado) haganlo en 4:3, les recomendaria que pusieran un pluguin o un detector en el codigo de la página a la hora de que se cargue para que la propia pagina (en funcion de la resolucion) pueda elegir el formato correcto / resolución correcta para el equipo cliente que solicita acceso a wikipedia.

Por lo demas está bien, interfaz sencilla, lineas clásicas, iconos remodelados, etc... en general un buen trabajo en el rediseño de la UI, a excepción de lo comentado anteriormente que si lo solucionan podria ser incluso hasta mejor. Daniel Borrajo fernández (talk) 22:04, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hola @Daniel Borrajo fernández, disculpa la tardanza en responder. Lo primero, queremos agradecer tu mensaje y la valoración positiva del trabajo realizado con Vector 2022. Respecto a tu comentario, nuestra interfaz ha sido concebida para diferentes proporciones y no de manera específica para 16:9 o 4:3. Por eso, nos gustaría entender mejor por qué consideras que se trata de la proporción de aspecto, ¿tal vez sea una cuestión del tamaño o la resolución de pantalla? Cualquier comentario adicional que quieras hacernos llegar, estamos a tu disposición. Muchas gracias. Saludos. Zapipedia (WMF) (talk) 17:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Daniel Borrajo fernández it would also be helpful if you could include screenshots, so we know specifically what you are referring to. Thank you : ) AHollender (WMF) (talk) 21:34, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

عدم ظهور جدول المحتويات في بعض الصفحات
مرحبًا بالجميع وشكرًا على العمل الجبار الذي تقومون به، لاحظت أن بعض الصفحات لا تحتوي على جدول المحتويات مثل و  في حين أنها تظهر في باقي الصفحات المماثلة مثل  و

en:Hello everyone and thanks for the great work you are doing, I noticed that some pages do not contain the table of contents such as and  while they appear on the rest of the similar pages such as  and  Cordially Nehaoua (talk) 21:51, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Nehaoua In all skins, the table of contents only appears when there are 4 or more ==headings==. See m:Help:Section for details. (Or m:Help:Section/ar). –Quiddity (talk) 00:55, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Quiddity thanks, I understood cordially Nehaoua (talk) 10:05, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nehaoua if you are interested in following along, we are hoping to eventually change this behavior in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T318186 AHollender (WMF) (talk) 21:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

My username overlaps with the notifications buttons
My username is rather long, so I can understand why this was not caught earlier. But my username overlaps with the notifications buttons on the top right. There is ample space available so it’d be great if the language switcher could move to the left to accommodate my longer name or if it could be truncated (preferably with “…”)

Here’s a screenshot. The offending layout is in the top right.

https://imgur.com/a/HJ53rs2 Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything (talk) 14:50, 9 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything - thank you for flagging this! This is a bug. I've filed a ticket to track this.   OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 20:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Watchlist notice covered up buttons
Sometimes when I accidentally click on the watchlist button, the notice can cover up the button itself and history tabs as well, and the only way that I can get rid of the notice is to refresh the page. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:03, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello @CactiStaccingCrane. Thanks for reporting this. Have you tried clicking the notice? It should disappear - this is a quick way of getting rid of it. This method should be working on any skin.
 * As of now, the issue you're reporting is unavoidable on some screens. We hope that we'd be able to work more on the tabs when we'll be working on our next project, but it'll take us months to make any changes. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:41, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Page tools move
Thank you for moving the page tools to the righthand side in a dropdown. Accessing things like "what links here" was my number one reason for uncollapsing the menu, so being able to hover and click on the page tools without doing that will be a lot easier to use. Steven Walling (talk) 17:22, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks @Steven Walling! Yeah, that's the point of making this change.
 * On a side note, did you know that there are also keyboard shortcuts for a few links, incl. "what links here"? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Page tools move, the default should be sidebar
I highly suggest keeping the default as sidebar (not as a tab), being more visible is vital in getting more editors, checking random pages, donating, checking recent changes and so on. Emphasizing on those links I think it's important. One big reason is that the tab is quite hidden. I spent quite some time trying to find it Ladsgroup (talk) 19:15, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @Ladsgroup - thanks for the feedback! For logged-in users, the default is going to be open. For logged-out we're planning on the default to be closed.  There is generally very low usage of these links by logged-out users right now, and our research showed that most folks who are logged-out do not understand what these links are or what they do.  That said, we are moving towards building out more context for readers on how wikis work.  The plan here is to have fewer entrypoints into editing, but to have each entrypoint be a bit clearer and more intuitive. OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 21:00, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. As long as it's in your radar, I'm happy Ladsgroup (talk) 21:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Page tools move breaks user scripts
Please see T325097 for details. Could you please fix the issue described there, or postpone deployment until the issue has been fixed? CC @SGrabarczuk (WMF). Thanks in advance. Regards, Aschmidt (talk) 20:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the report @Aschmidt - we will look into this! Currently, the page tools feature is not quite finished so more fixes and changes are to be expected between now and deployment.  We are doing a review of popular gadgets and scripts as a part of development, tracked in this ticket.  However, for some gadgets and scripts, it is possible that the fixes will need to be made on-wiki by anyone maintaining or working on the gadget or script. OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Log-in button missing when anonymous editing is disabled
When anonymous editing is disabled, Vector 2022 doesn't show the log-in button. Is that a bug or a feature?

MediaWiki: 1.39.0-rc.1

Cheers, Devaroo (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Devaroo, thank you for your question and apologies for the late reply! Are you still experiencing this issue and on which wikis?  I believe we solved this in this ticket. OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 20:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @OVasileva (WNF), I just upgraded to 1.39.0, and I'm having this issue on my wiki. I cannot figure out how to fix it, and any help would be appreciated. —Grlucas (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * OK, I downloaded the current version of the skin, and that fixed it. Apparently the fix is not included in the 1.39.0 tarball yet. —Grlucas (talk) 15:19, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Sandbox icon
Where I can find at Commons the sandbox icon from the user menu? P.S. I like T314727. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 15:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey @NGC 54, all interface icons can be found on the Codex website: https://doc.wikimedia.org/codex/v0.2.1/icons/all-icons.html AHollender (WMF) (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @AHollender (WMF): These icons are no located at Commons, too? I want to use the icon on ro:Utilizator:NGC 54/Bară de navigare. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 00:04, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Volker E. (WMF) @Sarai Sánchez (WMDE) do we have a process in place for uploading all Codex icons to Commons?
 * @NGC 54 if it's helpful for now, here is the SVG code:
 * AHollender (WMF) (talk) 16:02, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @AHollender (WMF) No, we sadly don't have one. There was a similar request in the past for OOUI, but it got deprioritized for technical issue reasons and lack of urgency. 52.119.124.223 06:05, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Better insight about the "Feedback summary" section
Moved from Topic:X8tm9pidprwslpdt

Hi, since the new page tools are going to be implemented in the next weeks into the Vector 2022 skin I was wondering if it would be possible to have a better insight of the data roughly presented in the "Feedback summary" section in the Prototype testing with editors paragraph.

IMO a presentation of the data with percentages and numbers like it was done in this paragraph would be clearer and more transparent than words like "the majority", "split pretty evenly" and "many people".

Thanks in advance for your disponibility and your work.

Please ping me when you'll answer to my question. WikiLuke (talk) 14:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Better insight about the "Feedback summary" section
I don't know why but my question was archived without having been answered so I'm posting it again.

It was archived with this.

Moved from Topic:X8tm9pidprwslpdt

Hi, since the new page tools are going to be implemented in the next weeks into the Vector 2022 skin I was wondering if it would be possible to have a better insight of the data roughly presented in the "Feedback summary" section in the Prototype testing with editors paragraph.

IMO a presentation of the data with percentages and numbers like it was done in this paragraph would be clearer and more transparent than words like "the majority", "split pretty evenly" and "many people".

Thanks in advance for your disponibility and your work.

Please ping me when you'll answer to my question. WikiLuke (talk) 14:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Review layout breakpoints
You did a great job with the redesign. I really like the content overview on the left, and the fact that it's convergent (no separation between m.wikipedia.org).

But on my 16:10 laptop screen, with a browser sidebar opened (I use tree style tabs to organise my tabs), the side bar already collapses to a hamburger menu. This is really annoying, the whole page feels like an oversized mobile page and uncomfortable to navigate. I can't really take advantage of the contents overview this way. It would be nice if you could re-eveluate the layout break points and make sure that the sidebar only gets collapsed when it's really necessary because of the screen size.

Janopae (talk) 11:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey there! I am personally working on a fix for this problem as we speak T317899. The current state is only interim, as the main focus has been on desktop breakpoints. Hope this is helpful! Jdlrobson (talk) 18:28, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Janopae thanks for your feedback. To clarify your comment, and make sure that we're understanding it correctly, could you add a few screenshots, preferably annotated (either directly on this page, or a link to a screenshot hosted elsewhere if that's easier)? AHollender (WMF) (talk) 21:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for working on this issue. Have break points been modified since I posted this? As currently, it looks fine on my screen, even with a sidebar opened. Maybe I had the page zoomed when making the request.
 * Screenshot_Vector_brakboint_at_110%25_zoom.png
 * As with 110 % zoom, the sidebar is collapsed, while I think showing the sidebar would still be appropriate with this layout.
 * Screenshot Vector sidebar expanded at 110 % zoom.png
 * It feels especially inappropriate when the sidebar is opened an covers the whole screen.
 * Janopae (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Janopae (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Less functional article language switcher
Hello. In old skin I can simple add an new language version of particular article – in those new I didn't notice such an option. Also, an old version have link to wikidata under article's languages (as "Edit links") – again, I can't find it. So would I every time have to go to wikidata and find a requested page on myself? It is strongly uncomfortable for persons who work in few languages. --~ Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 09:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Here is some related discussion and a link to a Phabricator task: Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements/Archive6. AllyD (talk) 09:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey @Wojsław Brożyna — are you referring to the "Add interlanguage links" link? If so, it will soon be available in the page tools menu on the right-side of the page (show in the image below, with the orange arrow). You will be able to have this menu "pinned", so it is always visible. Let me know if that solves your issue or not. Thanks,
 * [[File:Vector_2022,_work_in_progress_showing_"Add_interlanguage_links"_in_page_tools_menu_to_right_of_article.png|none|thumb|530x530px|Vector 2022, work in progress showing "Add interlanguage links" in page tools menu to right of article]]
 * AHollender (WMF) (talk) 14:06, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @AHollender (WMF) yes, it is that function (but it is visible for me as "Edit interlanguage links") :) Thank you! Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 14:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Page tools move initial thoughts
Hi @SGrabarczuk (WMF) and @OVasileva (WMF)! I just tested out the move of the page tools to the right side of the page per the instructions in the recent newsletter. Overall, the approach looks good, and the rough edges I'll mention below are likely things you'll address before the full rollout, but I wanted to offer my initial feedback while it's still early: That's all for now. Feel free to lmk when there's a newer version to test! Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 23:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Twinkle isn't currently merged to the new tools menu, but I think it would be good to do so. Fundamentally, Twinkle tools are tools the same as WMF tools, and from the user angle it makes sense to clump them together.
 * The menu headings could use some work. There's currently some redundancy, with "Tools [move to sidebar]" and then "Tools" again right below it, which is confusing.
 * The "Edit interlanguage links" option that is showing up displays weirdly, in a small font. I'm also a bit confused why it's there at all — there's already a link to the Wikidata item, where the interlanguage info is stored, and changing the interlanguage links is a very rare task that shouldn't use up menu space.
 * I try to limit the number of gadgets I install, but even with my relatively modest package, the menu goes off the bottom of the screen (and would go off the screen even farther if the Twinkle merge above is implemented). This requires me to scroll to get to some items, which is annoying. To fix this, I'd suggest considering having the different sections of the menu show up beside each other rather than above/below each other.
 * Related to the Twinkle menu suggestion: My combined Tools/More menu requires vertical scrolling as well, which is undesirable. I could probably reduce the excessive vertical white space with CSS, but I came here to suggest that Tools be its own menu: Tools / More / TW. There is tons of space available. I love the idea of having this menu at the upper right, which is where I go to do that sort of gnome/administrative stuff anyway. Popping out the left sidebar for the occasional "What Links Here" query and then popping it back in is a lot of hassle. (And yes, I know about the What Links Here keyboard shortcut, but it doesn't appear to work with the Mac's Command key to pop up in a new tab, which is always what I need.) Jonesey95 (talk) 02:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this feedback @Sdkb. Just commenting to let you know that we've taken note of it. Some issues have already been fixed, and the others we're working on. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 14:12, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Dismissing ephemeral dialogs
I adopted Vector 2022 early on, and I'm coming to know its new features. I see that it's making more use of ephemeral dialog notifications. A major one I deal with is the watchlist addition. Now, this dialog has a clickable link and a dropdown option, so I was reluctant to click it. But I found that while it obscures some other interface elements I want it to go away more quickly. I recently discovered that it is clickable, so clicking an ephemeral dialog causes it to disappear on command. Unfortunately this behavior is not orthogonal to typical mobile UIs where dialogs can be swiped out of the way, or clicking outside of them causes them to disappear. Elizium23 (talk) 04:58, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Is this intentional behavior and does it apply to all ephemeral dialogs?
 * Is it guaranteed to work going forward, i.e. is it working by design and accepted by the userbase?
 * Is it possible that an enhancement will allow dismissal by clicking outside, like on mobile, or is this infeasible?


 * Hey @Elizium23, thanks for this feedback. I would just like to note that the behavior of dialogs is not directly related to Vector 2022, so this might not be the best place to discuss improvements to them. Probably what would be best is reaching out to the Design Systems Team. I see they have a task regarding adding dialogs to Codex (the design system), so you could probably add your feedback there: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T313773. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 15:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Has vector changed in the last 36 hours?
My window looks a lot different today than it did yesterday. His anything changed? Comfr (talk) 07:59, 26 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Comfr. None of us was working on Dec 26, so we couldn't answer quickly. We didn't make any changes back then either :) Has the look changed since then? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:56, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

General feedback from a multiple portrait monitor power user
I'm one of those long-term editors who has never switched from Monobook. I groused about one of the new skin preview efforts not long ago, when comments were solicited, but this edition of Vector I mostly like. I mainly view Wikipedia on 23" monitors in portrait mode, with the window full-screened. The old-fashioned embedded TOC is not a problem with this much vertical real estate. The new TOC is kind of nice in some ways, but for me, I always want it fully expanded. It's a quick way to judge the complexity of the article. There's also too much "air" in the new TOC, it wraps longer section titles (ugh), and I lose the birds' eye view.

My second problem mainly concerns use of my landscape screen. As I increase the font size on my wide screen, the page switches off the navigation side bar before I have the large font size I desire, and now the text lines are too long for comfortable reading (100 characters is nutty), and I've lost visible navigation. (The inline TOC does not reappear.) I sit further away from my screens than most people. Perhaps because I have three, perhaps because it reduces back pain. At certain sizings on my landscape screen, I get a TOC too narrow to give me a proper overview, while simultaneously the text beside the TOC has lines too long for me to comfortably read. Probably all that can be hand customized in the CSS or somewhere, if I cared enough about Vector to make it work.

The third problem seems to be a paper cut. On my portrait screen, with larger font sizes, the search bar disappears, even when room remains to fit a short one. Commonly the search bar is a target for drag and drop from an article I'm reading on another screen. More than half the time my right screen is open to Wikipedia. I'm reading on my middle screen, I see an unfamiliar term (e.g. the German tank type "Marder") and I reflexively double-click to word select, then grab the word to drop on the Wikipedia search bar on my right screen—but wait!—that control is stupidly excised because the nanny state thought that a search bar too small would — what exactly? ... cause brain problems in the common user?

Even a small target for drag and drop would permit this interaction to work seamlessly, and the search bar could pop into large mode on a responsive basis to having text input (by keyboard or by drag and drop). I like drag because it doesn't interfere with my clipboard. I have a spectacularly powerful clipboard manager, but not because I want to drive it all day to recover recent items. Even no visible search bar target would work, if it responded to text drop events as if it were really there (where it ought to be anyway, so far as I'm concerned). Make that region automatically expand the search bar—if concealed—on drag hover! Also, if you're going to leave that dotted hamburger hovering over my page all the time anyway, why can't it serve as a drop target for search text?

The search interaction could pop up in place of the TOC sidebar when activated in this way, and people wouldn't have to loose their place running to the top of the page to conduct a search query. I actually use the search bar's auto suggestion mode quite often, to explore possible resolutions, without any intent to visit a searched term. When I'm using search in that way, I'd highly prefer not to lose my place in the current article. Just now I typed "Marder" in the search bar on my old Monobook skin. The list of suggestions pops up rapidly. The second one says "Marder (infantry fighting vehicle)" and I'm done. Because I was trying to remember whether it was a real tank, or just a tankino (it's the latter). Why do we only give the Ukrainians tankinos? But so it goes.

I briefly wondered if the new design was clever enough to detect alt-shift-f to bring up a floating search control over top of my current page position. But in my test page for Vector, alt-shift-f now does nothing at all. Wow. That's a step backwards if I've ever seen one. I have to say, I frequently don't understand the priorities of today's design generation.

Sigh. Monobook is far from perfect, but there's nothing so wrong with it that I need these new hassles. Reverted to Monobook. Again. And, most likely, not for the last time, given general trends in design priority. MaxEnt (talk) 21:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey @MaxEnt, to clarify one point: when pressing alt+shift+F are you expecting the brower's Find in page function to appear? If so, for me that appears just with alt+F (and also is outside of the control of the website). I'm not seeing anything appear in Monobook or Legacy Vector with alt+shift+F.
 * Interesting workflow regarding dragging a word into the search box — I've never heard of that before (also I can't figure out how to do it, how do you drag the word without it becoming unselected?).
 * We are working to keep the search bar visible at more narrow screen widths, so that should improve in time. We're also looking into zooming, and increasing the font-size via browser settings, to make sure all of that works as well as it possibly can.
 * The skin definitely has a ways to go, but from feedback, data, research, etc. it seems to be substantially better than Legacy Vector to warrant the switch over. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 15:06, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Repeating an old, pending issue
Please look into an important issue at Tewiki, which was reported here on Oct 2, 2022. Posting it again here, just to ensure that it wont get buried in archives. Sorry for that. __ Chaduvari (talk) 07:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Chaduvari thanks for the reminder. I've created a task on Phabricator (T327070) and have tagged several members of the Codex team, who we have been collaborating with on the search feature. I am hoping they will be able to provide a solution. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Not showing interlanguage links for other Namespaces

 * This issue is noticed in Tewiki
 * This is noticed in Vector 2022 skin only. There was no problem in default Vector skin
 * This is noticed in Template, Help, Wikipedia and Module Namespaces. Not noticed in Main namespace. Not checked for other namespaces.
 * This problem appeared on 14 Jan 2023
 * This problem is observed on Windows 11, Chrome 109. Not checked in any other environment.

The interlanguage links are not shown. When clicked the languages drop down, it shows the message "Page contents not supported in other languages." See image 1 When the page is scrolled down, the sticky link shows "so many languages" (e.g. 186 languages) See image 2 When the link is clicked the drop down shows - "No languages yet No languages are available for now" See image 3 Chaduvari (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * [EDITED] Hey, this is expected. Please see an unintended consequence of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T316559. For more information please see the task linked in the comment below. Our apologies for this inconvenience. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 14:09, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Expected??? The quoted ticket mentions the simplification of messages only for pages that that should not be associated with interlanguages links, e.g. talk pages. Meanwhile, in vector-2022 you turned off the visibility of links in all namespaces except main(!), which was considered a very serious bug and is "patched" in emergency mode (see: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T326788). Zdzislaw (talk) 18:06, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Zdzislaw, @AHollender (WMF)- Great, it is working now. Thanks for fixing it. __ Chaduvari (talk) 07:02, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Further release plans
Very cool that English-language WP will switch this week! I was wondering if there already are concrete plans on how to make Vector 2022 default in even more language versions. I see that you write We hope to get to all the Wikipedias by the end of February 2023, but at least on dewiki I have not had the impression that there was much communication and discussion about it so far. It would be difficult to reach a community consensus in such a short time. Or are further switches delayed until the page tools update is ready? Would be nice to have some more input, I just started an initial discussion on de:Wikipedia:Technik/Werkstatt. XanonymusX (talk) 19:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks @XanonymusX for your interest in this project. That's a good question. Right now, we're focusing on the deployment on English Wikipedia (apart from handling bugs and deploying the page tools). I'm grateful that you've initiated the discussion on the Werkstatt. It looks very good!
 * That said, we aren't able to be talking to two large communities at the same time. After some (hopefully short) time following the deployment on English Wikipedia, we will form a plan for the German-language community and reach out to this group. Definitely, we don't want to rush or confuse people.
 * In principle, though, is the skin stable and mature enough? Yes. We believe that if it's ready for deployment on English (and it is) it's also ready for German. Is the deployment on English Wikipedia a game-changer in terms of the gadgets and user scripts? Will the deployment on English make it significantly better? No, not really, because the technical English-speaking community has been familiar with the skin for a long time. A large portion of volunteer-maintained code was adjusted long ago. But who knows, perhaps something on dewiki still needs to be updated.
 * So... before we focus on German, we will continue running banners there, incentivizing people to opt-in individually. In parallel, you're most welcome to advocate for it wherever you deem appropriate. Writing on the Werkstatt was a great move!
 * Thanks, SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 03:32, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, sounds good! My feeling says that waiting for the page tools might be a good idea, so I’ll be following that development closely. For now, we will prepare the info pages on dewiki. The post on Diff tomorrow will also be in German, so sharing that one might help increase awareness. Success with deployment, looking forward to it! XanonymusX (talk) 10:07, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In any case, we have de:Hilfe:Skin/Vector 2022 now, will try to keep it up-to-date! XanonymusX (talk) 17:41, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Vector 2022
Wäre es möglich, die wirklich nervige Bannerwerbung für diese misslungene Oberfläche dauerhaft einzustellen? Ich glaube gerne, dass es Nutzer gibt, für die Schmiertelefone und Hochformat das Einzig Wahre sind. Für die gibt es aber schon die Mobilansicht. Was soll es bringen, allen anderen, die klassische Rechner mit üblicherweise im Querformat stehenden Monitoren benutzen, mit einem zusätzlichen weißen Streifen auf der rechten Seite zu nerven? Wer den Humbug möchte, der hat ihn. Wer ihn nicht will (und eher springe ich aus dem Fenster), der will ihn nicht und sollte der Schwachsinn mit Gewalt durchgedrückt werden, dann bin ich weg.

Bitte, macht damit Schluss. Als Option kann diese Ansicht gerne weiterbestehen, aber nicht als Voreinstellung. Schon, dass man das Anmeldemenü erst suchen muss, ist ein Schuss in den Ofen. Der Kram ist ein Fall von »gewollt und nicht gekonnt«. Das Versprechen, dass das Banner nur alle sieben Tage auftaucht, hat nie funktioniert. Zumindest bei mir werden die Cookies beim Schließen jedes Browsers gelöscht – und das ist nicht verhandelbar. Es gibt schon viel zu viele Schnüffler und in dieser Reihe möchte ich Wikimedia nicht sehen. –Falk2 (talk) 23:05, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Die Banner werden naturgemäß so lange laufen, bis die Oberfläche Standard ist. Wie wir eins weiter oben gerade besprechen, wird das für deWP demnächst angegangen, dauert aber sicher noch. Interessant finde ich, dass ich gefühlt noch nie ein solches Banner gesehen habe, aber das wird wohl daran liegen, dass ich den alten Vector schon lange nicht mehr verwende. Du kannst Banner übrigens generell in den Einstellungen deaktivieren (auch nach Typ). Gruß XanonymusX (talk) 10:02, 17 January 2023 (UTC)