Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements

Limit the screen width
I think the worst one can do is limit the screen width... I's far less relaxed for reading and a waste of screen space. Switched back to the previous version. 213.219.163.24 23:41, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! I'd like to invite you to read this page: Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Features/Limiting content width. There we've documented our arguments for this change. If you prefer the full width, you may use the button in the bottom right corner of the screen, too. I hope this solves the issue! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 17:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have a somewhat related question. I see that there is a toggle on the MediWiki site in the bottom right corner to adjust width, which is great... but I don't see it on my own install using Vector 2022 (MediaWiki version 1.39.3). Is there something I'm missing in order to make that visible? I don't have the "Enable limited width mode" option in user preferences either. Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer. Adoxtater (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My install of MediaWiki also does not have the full width toggle button. Fanra (talk) 10:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If you're not seeing the limited-width toggle, it might be because the browser window is too small. Currently, per T326887 the limited width toggle is only available when the browser window is bigger than 1400px wide. JDrewniak (WMF) (talk) 17:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I have dual monitor and stretched the window to run the full width of both and still no toggle button. However, on the mediawiki site it does show up even on a single monitor. Unless, of course, they're running some other code that makes it happen I guess. Adoxtater (talk) 22:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I have designed an alternative toggle button that I feel better represents the functionality... and emailed it to answers@wikimedia.org. Is there a better way to share it?? 68.83.135.144 18:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I have designed an alternative toggle button that I feel better represents the functionality... and emailed it to answers@wikimedia.org. Is there a better way to share it??
 * Disallowing me to upload... AlanGochin (talk) 18:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Some opposes and supports with same argument

 * Moved at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Rollback_of_Vector_2022#Some_opposes_and_supports_with_same_argument

Interwiki links dependancy from ULS extension.
Hi! I am quite disappointed that interwiki links has dependancy from ULS extension from MW 1.39. ULS extension works not so properly at my wiki farm, that's why I never used it, and basically I don't need it. And it is quite strange that only Vector-2022 skin has this dependancy as other skins displays interwiki language links. Can you explain why developers has done that? Fokebox (talk) 08:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey @Fokebox. You'll find information about that on the page about the feature. Is this helpful? I understand that there may be some difference between the Wikimedia wikis and third-party wikis. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, let me explain what issues I experience. I begin from the first one:
 * I have different localisations of my wiki farm that has common shared database and common files of mediawiki. All localisations made just like in wikipedia: ru.mywikifarm.org - Russian, en.mywikifarm.org - English, es.mywikifarm.org - Spanish etc. The $wgLanguageCode is determined for every localisation, i.e for English it is $wgLanguageCode = "en";, for $wgLanguageCode = "ru"; is for Russian etc. The issue is that the language of all website is correct for logged in user, but when it is a guest (non logged-in user) all localisations are in Russian, i.e. en.mywikifarm.org - is in Russian, es.mywikifarm.org - is in Russian etc. When I switch off ULS extension then all works fine for logged in user and for guests (non logged-in users). And I don't know how to solve this issue.
 * Fokebox (talk) 19:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I use MW 1.39.3 at my wiki family. I have interwiki links and don't need ULS so far. But interwiki links do not work without the extension at Vector-2022. How can I disable ULS but have my interwiki links? Fokebox (talk) 13:39, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am writing this message to remove dependancy of ULS with Interwiki links. All other skins do not have it. I don't need ULS at my website as it works not properly at my wiki farm. Fokebox (talk) 14:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The second issue is following: When ULS extension is on! I do see the interwiki box showing the number of languages at my Vector-2022 skin, but when I click the box - sometimes the links are shown, and sometimes the box is empty, in spite of that HTML code is fine - I see at HTML this links and text. But it works all strange, sometimes there are links and sometimes there aren't any. And it is difficult to say why it happening and how to debug this.
 * My wiki farm website:
 * MediaWiki 1.39.3
 * PHP 8.0.28 (cgi-fcgi)
 * MySQL 5.7.34
 * Fokebox (talk) 19:45, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Not enough space for text
While browsers learned 10 years ago, that it is better to have as much space for the website as possible, Wikipedia does the opposite and makes the side bar wider, which leaves less space for text. That sould be changed. Also it is too white, some contrast with the gray on the sides looks better. Slytzel (talk) 21:40, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Slytzel. Regarding the contrast issue, we're working on a more gray version, and we'll be testing it on wiki soon. You may be glad to read this announcement.
 * When it comes to the idea of limiting the content width, there's an essay about our goals and motivation, which I'm encouraging you to read. If you're dissatisfied with this design, you may use the full width option, which for both logged-in and logged-out users is persistent (is kept despite of refreshing the page or going to a different page on the same wiki).
 * Thank you, SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Content list gone in BG Wiki
Hello dear team. I would like to know, what is the reason the content list to be moved out from the articles in the Bulgarian Wikipedia? I am long time editor, mostly in he Bulgarian Wikipedia and even for me this "new" is hard to be understand, its absolutely not useful. The list was really important to be on seen place, now is in left and for long articles, is really hard to be used, especially for people which just read and not write. Why we should make more complicated Wikipedia? Станислав Николаев (talk) 14:12, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Станислав Николаев. Thanks for coming to us with this question. You'll find all the basic information on this page, from which you may dig deeper into our testing documentation.
 * In short, we have moved the table of contents out of the content area to make it easier for users to (1) gain context about the page and keep it while reading, and (2) jump between sections. Both of these make exploring content easier and more efficient. There are also other consequences, like there's more area for actual content in the content area, which is important in the light of a different change - the limitation of the content area width.
 * Have you identified any particular cases in which the new table of contents is hard to be used for readers? Perhaps you're referring to some issues we're working on. Thanks, SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand, thanks for the answer. Станислав Николаев (talk) 11:11, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Languages in alphabetcal order
Hi, would it be possible to add an option for displaying the list of languages in alphabetical order - instead of this large "suggested languages" panel?

I swear, I saw this a few months ago but somehow it disappeared. SolarisAmigo (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @SolarisAmigo. Thanks for your question. How the language switching feature works, as opposed to where it is placed, is part of different software (Universal Language Selector) decided by a different team (Language engineering). Let me ping @UOzurumba (WMF) who's part of that team. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * please see T319690 Jdlrobson (talk) 16:31, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @SolarisAmigo
 * The language selector combines different approaches to facilitate the language selection:
 * Provide flexible search where you can find a language by searching for them in multiple languages (you can search for “spanish”, “español”, o using the language code “es”).
 * Suggested languages section is useful for people that frequently switches among the languages they speak. For example, a speaker of English and Korean, can quickly switch between them without having to search or scan a potentially large list.
 * The above methods are the most commonly used for selecting a language. In the exceptional cases where users browse the larger list, we group the languages by region and script so that they can quickly skip blocks that are not relevant to them.
 * Providing alphabetical order is not very meaningful for a list of items in multiple scripts (in which order “中文“, “ไทย“, “हिन्दी” should go?).  For more advanced use-cases where you may need a flat list, in many cases accessing the list on Wikidata (From the language selector: “Add languages > Edit interlanguage links”) can be useful.
 * We would like to learn more about your particular use-case to explore how can we support it better. Feel free to provide more details. Thank you! UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 17:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Vector 2022 with an honest TOC
Hey. I prefer Vector 2022 over the previous version in every aspect save one: That super-annoying sidebar TOC.  OMG  : It is SUCH A FREAKING PAIN to navigate. Can I get Vector 2022 with honest-to-goodness TOC like Vector 2010? TksLingzhi.Renascence (talk) 01:16, 15 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Lingzhi.Renascence, thank you for your feedback. You can restore the inline table of contents adding this JavaScript code in your Preferences > Skin Vector (2022) > Custom javascript. Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 10:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If you like the Vector-2022 layout, but with the old TOC, I recommend the Timeless skin, it's what I use and I like it a lot. Ivanics (talk) 04:27, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Frustrating
This seems like such a simple problem to notice, but apparently it has not. When editing in the new editor, it has a nasty tendency (not 100% of the time) to jump to the beginning of the edit section with the insertion of a capital letter. So after a period, you begin a new sentence. It should follow the period, not start ahead of the entire block. That is text editing 101.2603:8001:A601:2A56:542C:632C:1403:A7D9 18:16, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello! Thanks for raising this issue. What new editor do you mean? Could you walk me through, step by step? What browser and OS are you using? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 18:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Incorporate the articles title into the ToC
The sticky ToC looks a little bit anaemic when scrolled down. The titles Contents and the technical (Top) with its weird braces are not really a substitute. I’d make the title of the ToC the same as the articles subject. As an additional bonus it could function as a link to the top. And of course there is sticky magic to only enable the title if the main title of the article is scrolled outside the viewport. 176.199.150.38 00:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Is there some A/B testing going on?
I'm used to the contents, when hidden from the sidebar, in en-wiki, would be being located behind the in the sticky header, which is great. I recently discovered that it seems that in namespaces like  it's now a free-floating icon in the top-left corner (e.g., en:Draft:Smart Communications (software company)). Is this intentional? Tenryuu (talk) 22:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Tenryuu. No, we aren't running A/B tests now. I think this isn't the expected behavior... I'll file a ticket on Phabricator. Thanks for noticing this and informing us! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Second thoughts, this appears to be due to the lack of the sticky header in this namespace. Otherwise, the icon would be part of it. I think we (the enwiki community and our team) could discuss and make a collaborative decision which namespaces with the sticky header currently disabled should get the sticky header. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:07, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk: Thanks for the explanation. If a discussion should occur, please let me know. Tenryuu (talk) 13:09, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

When will vector-2022 be the default for the German Wikipedia
Contrary to a lot of comments here I can't wait to finally get vector-2022 as a default for Wikipedia. I am mostly working with ultra wide screens and even when only using the center portion for my browser window, I much prefer the narrow text layout.

I think it's well documented that smart usage of white space and smaller column widths make text easier to read, and I am looking forward to not having to add '?useskin=vector-2022' to German Wikipedia URLs any more.

Where does the discussion on when / if to roll this out for German Wikipedia take place? Is there any public information on this issue available? 62.218.63.247 13:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)


 * They are mainly vocal opinions from old-school Wikimedians. The major users wouldn't feel that the old version was better. 🐱💬 03:35, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I totally understand the frustration of what seems to be a huge part of corporate websites these days, that use huge fonts and narrow paragraphs that make it really difficult to quickly absorb larger amounts of information. I too am furious when I have to endlessly scroll down to see information that would have easily fit on a single page.
 * With text based content however, I feel it's clear that narrow columns and good use of space between is what you should go with as a designer. 62.218.63.254 15:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There is now a vote and discussion at Vector 2022 als Standardskin. Discostu (talk) 13:42, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Page zone separation trial (Zebra9)
Are comments about the ongoing trial being collated anywhere? Personally I am finding the grey background separation between zones to be a backward step from the "cleanliness" of V22. AllyD (talk) 19:38, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Same for me. MikeMatyMatta (talk) 11:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @AllyD and @MikeMatyMatta. Thanks for being interested in the A/B test.
 * As we announced before the launch of the A/B test, the goal for this is to measure the following: pageviews, opt-out rates, edit rate, Table of Contents usage, scrolling, and page tools usage. After the test, we'll analyze the data and decide if Zebra #9 would become the default look.
 * That being said, if you have feedback, we'll be happy to read it! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 13:10, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Notifications missing from sticky nav
The sticky navigation has all the important links available except one: notifications. This means that when I am working through my notifications, I always have to scroll back to the top to go to the next one. This should be changed. Discostu (talk) 13:45, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The Vector 2022 bug fixing that was happening at a pretty quick rate for a few weeks after the initial deployment has slowed to a crawl, as often happens with shiny new beta deployments (see also the Visual Editor, still in beta after many years). See for an example of a request related to the sticky header. To fix it for yourself, if you are willing to modify your CSS files, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Quiddity/Vector-2022-condensed.css for code that can make the default page header sticky so that you do not have to deal with the inexplicable differences between the top-of-page header and the sticky header. Jonesey95 (talk) 00:38, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jonesey95, you've been watching the development of the project for a long time. You may remember that the initial deployment took place in 2020 and it happened on several wikis, like French or Hebrew Wikipedia. When we deployed on English Wikipedia earlier this year, we were close to the end of the project.
 * @Discostu, thanks for raising this issue. I admit, I'd prefer the sticky header with the notifications, too. However, according to our engineers, this is a difficult task, and that's why we haven't done it yet. I also recommend taking a look at the discussion in the relevant Phabricator task where you'll find detailed arguments against it. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 23:08, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * With all respect, it was not that difficult for me to get it working for my account. I have it displaying on every page, in every namespace, right now on en.WP. It works great. The necessary CSS is linked above. The fundamental problem is that the top-of-page header is different from the sticky header, which is very confusing from a UX perspective. Making the sticky header the only header fixes that UX design problem. Jonesey95 (talk) 01:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)