Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements/Fourth prototype testing/Feedback

Nazwa użytkownika: Msz2001

 * 1) Znajdź linki "Linkujące" i "Pobierz jako PDF". Jeżeli nie możesz ich znaleźć, daj nam znać.
 * Linki są w tych miejscach, gdzie bym ich oczekiwał. Po przyzwyczajeniu się, że należy ich szukać po prawej stronie, będzie całkowicie wygodnie.
 * 1) Przenieśliśmy narzędzia strony na prawo (równolegle do sidebara). Co sądzisz o nowej lokalizacji tych narzędzi? Jeśli ci się nie podoba, powiedz nam, dlaczego nie i co wolisz?
 * Decyzja o rozdzieleniu paska bocznego na dwie części stanowi według mnie sensowne rozwiązanie zagwozdki z pływającym spisem treści. Przeniesienie narzędzi dot. artykułu na prawą stronę może pozwolić na przypięcie tego menu i łatwy dostęp do narzędzi również po przewinięciu strony w dół. (szczególnie, szybki dostęp do niektórych gadżetów bez wracania na górę strony byłby wygodny).
 * 1) Skoncentruj się na nowym sidebarze nad nowym spisem treści. Jak wspomnieliśmy we wstępie, podzieliliśmy stary sidebar na dwa menu: nawigację wiki i narzędzia strony. Co myślisz o tym podziale? Czy uważasz, że jakieś linki znajdują się nie w tym menu, w którym powinny? Czy brakuje jakichś linków?
 * Podział linków jest według mnie sensowny i uważam, że po okresie przejściowym nie będę miał kłopotów z korzystaniem z podzielonego menu.
 * 1) Spróbuj zwinąć, a następnie przypiąć nawigację wiki (stary sidebar). Co myślisz? Czy uważasz, że to menu powinno być domyślnie rozwinięte, czy zwinięte? Pamiętaj, że stan menu będzie się utrzymywał między stronami. Jeśli je zwiniesz, pozostanie zwinięte, kiedy wejdziesz na inną stronę.
 * Uważam, że po wdrożeniu zmian, lewe menu powinno być domyślnie rozwinięte (przynajmniej u zalogowanych użytkowników). Według mnie, dzięki temu łatwiej będzie im się przyzwyczaić do zmian. Z kolei u niezalogowanych mogłoby być domyślnie schowane, bo pozwoli to się im skupić na treści strony. Skutkiem ubocznym będzie utrudniony dostęp do np. pomocy.
 * Mam mieszane uczucia co do pokazywania przycisku ≡ w momencie, gdy menu jest przypięte. Aktualny stopień wyszarzenia przycisku nie komunikuje (według mnie) w dostateczny sposób, że przycisk jest nieaktywny (a ponadto podświetla się po najechaniu myszką).
 * Ponadto, menu "ogólnowikipedyjne" jest umiejscowione ciut za wysoko w porównaniu do spisu treści i menu "artykułowego" (zrzut ekranu: ).
 * 1) Spróbuj zwinąć, a następnie przypiąć narzędzia strony. Co myślisz?
 * Uważam, że kliknięcie na nagłówek sekcji w menu po prawej powinno ją zwijać, tak samo jak naciśnięcie strzałeczki. Nie dość, że ułatwiłoby to korzystanie z menu, ale też dodałoby spójności z przyciskiem "Zwiń menu" (gdzie klikalna jest nie tylko strzałka).
 * Sugeruję zmienić nomenklaturę i zamiast "zwiń menu" pisać coś w rodzaju "odepnij menu" lub "schowaj menu". "Zwiń" w moim odczuciu sugeruje, że menu pozostanie w tym samym miejscu, ale będzie widoczny jedynie jego nagłówek (lub coś w tym rodzaju), podobnie jak ma to miejsce w przypadku sekcji prawego menu. Być może lepsza byłaby ikonka pinezki (i jakiś wariant, który znaczyłby "odepnij") niż te dwie strzałki, które są w prototypie.
 * Dla spójności doświadczeń użytkowników proponuję, aby po kliknięciu przycisku "Narzędzia V" menu pokazywało się na prawo od niego, a nie pod spodem (o ile szerokość ekranu jest wystarczająca). Wtedy stan "przypięty" od "nieprzypiętego" będzie się odróżniał wyłącznie tym, czy menu pozostaje na ekranie.
 * 1) Odwróciliśmy również kolejność paska tytułu strony i paska narzędzi/zakładek (tytuł strony jest nad zakładkami). Co myślisz o tym nowym ustawieniu? Masz jakieś obawy?
 * Taki układ jest według mnie rozwiązaniem lepszym niż obecne, z kilku powodów:
 * 1) ** Nowicjusz widzi, że tytuł strony "nie zawiera" się w jej treści, dzięki czemu szukanie opcji zmiany nazwy strony gdzieś w menu jest bardziej instynktowne.
 * 2) ** Dotychczasowe zakładki nie pasowały do reszty skórki stylistycznie (używały koloru i wisiały w powietrzu).
 * 3) ** Kolejność jest spójna z tym, co widać w wersji mobilnej (która dla przeciętnego czytelnika nie-edytora może być podstawową formą korzystania z Wikipedii).
 * 4) ** Zachowana jest hierarchia – strona historii jest cechą artykułu, więc naturalne, że link do niej będzie "w artykule".
 * 5) ** Dopełnieniem tego według mnie mogłaby być zmiana formy nagłówka na stronie historii i edycji na coś w rodzaju "Płetwal błękitny › Historia i autorzy", co podkreślałoby tę hierarchię, o której wyżej. (niestety Dyskusja:Płetwal błękitny wyłamywała by się z tego schematu, więc nie musi to być w 100% dobry pomysł).
 * Mam nadzieję, że zespół projektujący nowy układ strony wziął pod uwagę zakładkę "Więcej", która służy przynajmniej do przenoszenia stron. W wariancie, gdy prawe menu jest schowane, oznaczałoby to, że obok siebie pojawią się dwa menu typu dropdown, których funkcje byłoby trudno rozróżnić po etykiecie przycisku. Może dobrym rozwiązaniem byłoby dołączenie opcji takich jak "Przenieś" (i innych, dostępnych dla administratorów) na górę tego menu, które jest ukryte pod przyciskiem "Narzędzia"? Myślę o usytuowaniu tych opcji na samej górze, być może nawet bez dodatkowego nagłówka. (wizualizacja: )
 * 1) Czy często korzystasz z narzędzi dla zaawansowanych użytkowników? Jeśli nie, możesz pominąć to pytanie. Jeśli tak, kliknij pole wyboru w prawym dolnym rogu o nazwie „Zaawansowane narzędzia”, aby włączyć je w prototypie. Zobaczysz listę linków inspirowanych MoreMenu. Co sądzisz o umieszczeniu tych linków w jednym menu z narzędziami strony? Jeśli ci się to nie podoba, powiedz, dlaczego nie i co wolisz?
 * Nie korzystam z tego typu narzędzi.
 * 1) Przejdź do strony dyskusji. Czy ważne jest, aby mieć identyczny dostęp do narzędzi strony na stronach dyskusji? Czy powinno być inaczej? Jeśli tak, jak myślisz, co powinniśmy zrobić z narzędziami stron na stronach dyskusji?
 * Dopóki strona dyskusji jest zwykłą stroną w wikitekście, a nie czymś w rodzaju Flow, uważam, że narzędzia powinny być takie same jak w artykułach. Oprócz gadżetów, które do sekcji "Narzędzia" mogą dodawać linki przydatne również w dyskusjach, znajdują się tam również linki takie jak "Linkujące" czy "Link do tej wersji", które cechuje niezerowa użyteczność również na stronach dyskusji.
 * 1) Dodaj inne końcowe przemyślenia, pomysły lub pytania.
 * Uważam, że zaproponowane zmiany są zmianami na lepsze.

Username:Sdkb

 * 1) Find the "What links here" and "Download as PDF" links. If you can't please let us know.
 * Done.
 * 1) We have moved the page tools to the other side of the page (opposite from the sidebar). What do you think of this new location for these tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not, and what you would prefer instead?
 * I don't particularly like it. Having used New Vector for a while now, I was getting used to the whitespace there, so to have it filled again, now with a menu, feels like clutter. It also feels disorganized particularly to have page tools there, because we already have a convenient place for one of the page tools, the move button (and many common gadgets): as a menu item in a "more" menu along the top. I feel we should be consolidating these functions into a single menu. I also feel that page tools is still given far too much weight: even many editors don't use them all that often, and for 99% of the audience, readers, they're completely useless. They should not be above the print/share/link or other projects menus (and indeed, en-WP agreed on this point).
 * 1) Focus on the new sidebar, above the new table of contents. As noted in the introduction, we've split the old sidebar into two menus: wiki navigation and page tools. What do you think of this split? Are there items you think are in the wrong menu? Are there items that are missing?
 * The en-WP community considered these questions at length in the w:WP:SIDEBAR20 mega-RfC. I've strongly urged you before to review that, and I even more strongly urge you to do so now. Overall, some things I dislike are that there are no longer labels (e.g. "Contribute") delineating the three groups, there are no longer tooltips when you hover over an option, the help link has been moved to the bottom of the contribute section (an inappropriate de-emphasis), the "learn to edit" link has been removed (directly overriding community consensus; attracting new editors by having this link is crucial, and myself and many others will scream if you try to override us and force its removal), and you're trying to add an "add interlanguage links" link that is redundant (there's already a link to the Wikidata item, this is not a common enough task to need a dedicated permanent button, and even if it was, the language switcher menu would be a better place for it). Moving special pages to the contribute section is something that I personally like and advocated for, but the community rejected the idea, so proceed at your own risk on that. Again, I'm linking SIDEBAR20 left and right—it's really crucial you read through that to understand how the community feels.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the wiki navigation (the old sidebar). What do you think? Do you think this menu should be open or collapsed by default? Remember, the state of the menu will be persistent between pages. If you collapse it it will stay collapsed.
 * It took me a second to figure out that collapsing it meant it'd go under the hamburger menu. I think less tech-savvy users might be a bit confused about how to find it after it's collapsed.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the page tools. What do you think?
 * It's important to have the table of contents visible at the top of an article, as it helps tells readers what information it contains. I don't like having to scroll for it, so I'd probably keep the menu collapsed. But I don't particularly like that, either, since the hamburger menu isn't accessible once you start scrolling, meaning there's no way to access it midway down an article. This goes to the larger problem of the fact that you've made two separate designs for the top of the screen—one for when you're at the top, and one persistent one for when you're scrolling—and there's no smooth transition between them and poor consistency within the designs. When I start scrolling, I want a smooth animated transition with elements like the title moving to their new position rather than disappearing and reappearing, and I don't want too many elements changing. This would help me better understand where things are, and it'd be really good not to have to scroll up each time I want to get to my notifications/alerts.
 * 1) We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar. What do you think of this new order? Do you have any concerns?
 * Sure, it's fine. My main concern is that this gives even more prominence to the language switcher, which you're already made far too prominent (that link is another discussion crucial for you to read; it begins on another note but moves to the language switcher).
 * 1) Do you often use tools for advanced users? If no, you can skip this question. If yes, click on the checkbox in the lower right corner called "Advanced tools" in order to enable them in the prototype. You will see a list of links inspired by the MoreMenu. What do you think of the placement of these tools with the other page tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not and what you would prefer instead?
 * This partially rectifies my concern above that the move button and gadgets weren't in the same place as the page tools; it's nice to see them unified all under a single tools menu. I don't like that the Twinkle menu uses so much jargon that even the header is labeled "TW" rather than "Twinkle", but that's perhaps a complaint for Twinkle devs rather than you (please reply and let me know if I should direct it to them). I'm not sure I fully agree with the menu buckets—moving a page is something newcomers often ask about, and while it can be disruptive if done inappropriately, I wouldn't say it's more "advanced" than the info you'd find under e.g. "page information". I like the new purge link—that's something I often type out manually. I still don't feel that enough thought is being given to separating out items for editors and those for readers. Readers should have easy access to the print/share/link and "in other projects" menus; those shouldn't be deeply collapsed by default. But advanced tools for editors should definitely be collapsed by default, as they're useless for everyone but advanced editors. "In other projects" isn't a tool, anyways; perhaps move that to the language switcher. And perhaps create an OOUI version of the share arrow and place that somewhere as a new menu for sharing.
 * 1) Navigate to the talk page. Is it important to have identical access to page tools on talk pages? Should it be different? If yes, what do you think we should do with page tools on talk pages?
 * It's important to still be able to get to the page tools somehow from talk, but we need them from talk a lot less frequently, so it's fine if they're more hidden there.
 * 1) Please add any final thoughts, ideas, or questions.
 * I don't like how the page tools menu and wiki navigation menu are not vertically aligned with each other. They should both be aligned to the page title bar, rather than only the wiki nav menu, with the page tools menu aligned to the page toolbar/tab-bar. The new visual design of the menus is something I think I could get used to, although I'm not sure I like how the new border around them gives them more emphasis. I do like how the page toolbar/tab-bar has a more minimalist design, which seems more modern. Overall, I'd encourage greater dialogue with the community—it's okay to e.g. reply to my comments here to let me know you've read them and respond to some of the things I've said.


 * @Sdkb thank you very much for your time, feedback, and the various links. I just wanted to respond briefly with two thoughts:
 * Regarding your response to question 2: we agree that the tools menu does not need to be "pinned" for readers and some editors. This is why we've made it collapsible. If you collapse it you will get the whitespace back, and the tools menu will be consolidated with the More menu as you described. So I think your concerns are addressed by the configurability there. Also, if you open the usermenu and logout you can see what the page looks like for logged-out people — both menus are collapsed by default.
 * Regarding your response to question 3: thanks again for the link. We are aware of the RfC. We anticipated some confusion with this prototype — we are not suggesting the details of what's in those menus. They will remain configurable by the community via the respective MediaWiki pages. Our proposal is about two things: 1) splitting the sidebar into two menus (Tools and Global navigation), and 2) moving the Tools menu to either a pinned position opposite the Table of Contents, or a collapsed position in the article toolbar (where the More menu is). I'm not sure if you already saw this, or if it would be helpful, but you can find more details here. Again, I realize it's confusing because it seems like we're proposing changes to the items within those menus, but we're not. Any help you can provide in sharing that clarity with the community would be awesome.


 * Curious to hear any addition thoughts/responses you have and thanks again. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks; that all makes sense! Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 21:08, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Nom d’utilisateur :HB

 * 1) Trouvez les liens « Pages liées » et « Télécharger comme PDF ». Si vous n'y arrivez pas veuillez nous le faire savoir.
 * Trouvé après une peu d'hésitations
 * 1) Nous avons déplacé les outils de la page de l'autre côté de la page (en opposition à la barre latérale). Que pensez-vous de ce nouvel emplacement pour ces outils ? Si vous ne l'aimez pas, pouvez-vous nous dire pourquoi et ce que vous préféreriez à la place ?
 * Je comprends l'idée de séparer les outils de navigation et les outils spécifiques à la page, mais utiliser une marge droite et une marge gauche réduit la taille consacrée au texte. Ce que je regrette.
 * 1) Focalisez-vous sur la nouvelle barre latérale, au-dessus du nouveau sommaire. Comme indiqué dans l'introduction, nous avons divisé l'ancienne barre latérale en deux menus : le menu de navigation du wiki et le menu des outils de la page. Que pensez-vous de cette division ? Y a-t-il des éléments qui, selon vous, ne sont pas dans le bon menu ? Y a-t-il des éléments qui manquent ?
 * Voir plus haut
 * 1) Essayez de réduire puis d'épingler le menu de navigation du wiki (l'ancienne barre latérale). Vous pensez que ce menu devrait être déplié ou replié par défaut ? N'oubliez pas que l'état du menu sera persistant entre les pages. Si vous le réduisez, il restera réduit.
 * C'est le point qui m'a posé le plus d'incompréhension. En cliquant sur "Réduire le menu", le sommaire est remonté mais le menu était toujours apparent, cachant le sommaire. J'en ai donc conclu que cela ne marchait pas. Puis j'ai, par hasard (et ce n'est pas naturel) cliqué sur la page et le menu a effectivement disparu. Mais j'ai eu ensuite un mal de chien à savoir où il s'était caché car rien dans l'apparence de la page ne m'indiquait où il avait bien pu être rangé. A force d'obstination je l'ai retrouvé dans les trois traits en haut à gauche. J'ai pu de nouveau l'ouvrir et "l'épingler" tout en ne comprenant pas le sens de ce mot. J'ai vu que les trois barres persistaient en haut à gauche de la page mais qu'elles étaient alors inertes. Je trouve ce fonctionnement plus que déroutant et un obstacle pour le contributeur qui ne sait pas quoi et où chercher. Il aurait été beaucoup plus simple de créer une boite déroulante.
 * 1) Essayez de réduire puis d'épingler les outils de la page. Qu'en pensez vous ?
 * Instruite de mes mésaventures sur la fenêtre menu de gauche, j'ai retrouvé plus rapidement les choses, d'autant plus que là au moins, la disparition des outils dans la marge de gauche s'accompagne de l'apparition d'un bouton sous le titre de l'article
 * 1) Nous avons également inversé l'ordre de la barre du titre de la page et la barre des outils de la page (la barre des onglets). Qu'en pensez vous de ce nouvel ordre ? Avez-vous des réserves ?
 * L'ordre précédent m'apparaissait plus logique : le titre fait partie de l'article et ne devrait pas en être séparé par des boutons d'outil.
 * 1) Vous utilisez souvent les outils pour les contributeurs aguerris ? Si la réponse est non, passez à la question suivante. Si la réponse est oui, tout au fond et à droite de la page, cliquez sur la case à cocher intitulée "Outils avancés", afin de les activer dans le prototype.
 * Il n'est pas rare que j'utilise l'outil de renommage, fréquemment celui de vérification biblio et parfois la purge. Et je les utilise davantage que la version imprimable ou le lien permanent. Je trouve donc un peu dommage qu'ils soient cachés dans une sous-fenêtre et qu'il faille, pour les activer, cocher une case qui soit à un endroit pas naturel. Pourquoi ne pas les intégrer dans la fenêtre des outils en mode non déroulé?
 * 1) Naviguez dans la page de discussion. Est-il important d'avoir un accès identique aux outils de la page sur les pages de discussion ? Devrait-il être différent ? Si oui, que pensez-vous que nous devrions faire avec les outils de la page sur les pages de discussion ?
 * Ils étaient présents dans la marge gauche de la version standard sans me choquer mais bizarrement la présence des outils à droite me gêne davantage en page de discussion
 * 1) Vous pouvez ajouter n’importe quelles idées, remarques ou questions pour finir.
 * Je ne comprends pas l'utilité "d'épingler" les deux menus si c'est pour ne pas les laisser accessibles quand on descend dans l'article. Du coup on se retrouve avec une marge droite vide. "Epingler" un menu devrait permettre d'y avoir accès à tout moment comme c'est le cas pour le sommaire. Autre effet de bord incohérent: la case à cocher "outils avancés" est en position flottante alors qu'elle concerne un menu qui, lui, ne l'est pas. Ce qui fait que cocher ou décocher la case n'a aucun effet visible quand on n'est pas en tête d'article.

MarMi wiki

 * 1) Znajdź linki "Linkujące" i "Pobierz jako PDF". Jeżeli nie możesz ich znaleźć, daj nam znać.
 * Znaleziono (łatwo).
 * 1) Przenieśliśmy narzędzia strony na prawo (równolegle do sidebara). Co sądzisz o nowej lokalizacji tych narzędzi? Jeśli ci się nie podoba, powiedz nam, dlaczego nie i co wolisz?
 * Nie mam zdania (z początku pewnie będą pomyłki przez przyzwyczajenie).
 * 1) Skoncentruj się na nowym sidebarze nad nowym spisem treści. Jak wspomnieliśmy we wstępie, podzieliliśmy stary sidebar na dwa menu: nawigację wiki i narzędzia strony. Co myślisz o tym podziale? Czy uważasz, że jakieś linki znajdują się nie w tym menu, w którym powinny? Czy brakuje jakichś linków?
 * Według mnie podział jest dobry.
 * 1) Spróbuj zwinąć, a następnie przypiąć nawigację wiki (stary sidebar). Co myślisz? Czy uważasz, że to menu powinno być domyślnie rozwinięte, czy zwinięte? Pamiętaj, że stan menu będzie się utrzymywał między stronami. Jeśli je zwiniesz, pozostanie zwinięte, kiedy wejdziesz na inną stronę.
 * Jak dla mnie nawigacja wiki powinna być domyślnie zwinięta - raczej nie ma tam opcji, których bym często musiał używać, żeby jeden klik więcej na rozwinięcie był uciążliwy.
 * 1) Spróbuj zwinąć, a następnie przypiąć narzędzia strony. Co myślisz?
 * Po zwinięciu nie ma potrzeby, żeby menu było widoczne (powinno się od razu ukrywać). Zamiast "Zwiń menu" powinno być "Zwiń menu do [=]", gdzie [=] to te trzy poziome kreski, bo według mnie obecnie za słabo jest to sygnalizowane.
 * Powinno dać się przypiąć ikonę menu do spisu treści (albo do tego paska pojawiającego się po przesunięciu strony w dół; do tego paska powinno się też przypinać menu narzędzi), żeby skrolował się razem ze stroną. A spis treści też powinien dać się zwinąć (zabiera za dużo miejsca, a nie zawsze jest potrzebny).
 * 1) Odwróciliśmy również kolejność paska tytułu strony i paska narzędzi/zakładek (tytuł strony jest nad zakładkami). Co myślisz o tym nowym ustawieniu? Masz jakieś obawy?
 * Nie za bardzo mi się to podoba - nie wygląda to dla mnie za zbyt naturalne, treść artykułu z tytułem nie powinna być przerywana menu.
 * Z paska zakładek wyrzucił bym "Czytaj" (chyba ze coś ma być do niego podpięte?).
 * 1) Czy często korzystasz z narzędzi dla zaawansowanych użytkowników? Jeśli nie, możesz pominąć to pytanie. Jeśli tak, kliknij pole wyboru w prawym dolnym rogu o nazwie „Zaawansowane narzędzia”, aby włączyć je w prototypie. Zobaczysz listę linków inspirowanych MoreMenu. Co sądzisz o umieszczeniu tych linków w jednym menu z narzędziami strony? Jeśli ci się to nie podoba, powiedz, dlaczego nie i co wolisz?
 * 2) Przejdź do strony dyskusji. Czy ważne jest, aby mieć identyczny dostęp do narzędzi strony na stronach dyskusji? Czy powinno być inaczej? Jeśli tak, jak myślisz, co powinniśmy zrobić z narzędziami stron na stronach dyskusji?
 * Według mnie oba menu mogłyby być tam domyślnie zwinięte, chyba że doda się jakieś opcje dla stron dyskusji.
 * 1) Dodaj inne końcowe przemyślenia, pomysły lub pytania.
 * 1) Dodaj inne końcowe przemyślenia, pomysły lub pytania.

Japanese translation of Collapse menu
「Collapse menu」の日本語訳が「崩壊メニュー」となっているのは誤訳です. 「メニューを折りたたむ」に変えるべきです. The Japanese translation of "Collapse menu" as "崩壊メニュー" is a mistranslation. It should be changed to "メニューを折りたたむ". --Shirayuki (talk) 00:39, 26 March 2022 (UTC)


 * @Shirayuki thank you so much for letting us know. I've updated the translation. If you clear your cache and refresh the page you should see it updated. Please reach out if there are any other translation issues you find. AHollender (WMF) (talk) 20:19, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

User:Ата

 * 1) Find the "What links here" and "Download as PDF" links. If you can't please let us know.
 * I immediately looked left, of course, to the lower part of the sidebar; got confused; remembered that I need to look one the right sidebar; looked to the lower part of the right sidebar; remembered that there is no need to look lower since there is nothing to be expected above the page tools here.
 * 1) We have moved the page tools to the other side of the page (opposite from the sidebar). What do you think of this new location for these tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not, and what you would prefer instead?
 * I don't really need the left sidebar this way, since of what is left there I am interested mostly in random page and special pages; I don't usually use other links. My first urge was to drag the page instruments to the left where I'm used to them and to drag wiki navigation to the right where I can continue to ignore it by habit.
 * 1) Focus on the new sidebar, above the new table of contents. As noted in the introduction, we've split the old sidebar into two menus: wiki navigation and page tools. What do you think of this split? Are there items you think are in the wrong menu? Are there items that are missing?
 * Since I mostly use page tools and don't use wiki navigation links, I perceive this split as "the things I need" vs "the things I don't need" 😅 Therefore, I thought that maybe special pages link belongs to the page tools, though of course I know that it doesn't.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the wiki navigation (the old sidebar). What do you think? Do you think this menu should be open or collapsed by default? Remember, the state of the menu will be persistent between pages. If you collapse it it will stay collapsed.
 * Behaviour of the "collapse menu" button was unexpected to me. I assumed it will produce the result similar to pressing the "Tools" arrow on the right sidebar: the section title stays, the list hides. It took me some time and a random click just in case to understand that the menu will probably hide if I click elsewhere and that in will appear again on clicking the menu button (the three dashes). The menu button is somehow too far from the menu list now and I did not immediately associate them with one another.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the page tools. What do you think?
 * Same thing; this is not collapsing, this is unpinning+disappearing. I would expect it to hide to the right, just like the left sidebar hides to the left in current interface of this wiki.
 * 1) We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar. What do you think of this new order? Do you have any concerns?
 * I did not even notice, and had to read the question two times carefully to understand what's changed. On my home wiki, though, I have gadgets enabled that show last editors and Wikidata labels for the page under the title bar; they take some space and so the title of an article would appear far from its content. I am not sure whether this will be an issue: current interface means that an edit button is far from the article content and I'm used to it.
 * 1) Do you often use tools for advanced users? If no, you can skip this question. If yes, click on the checkbox in the lower right corner called "Advanced tools" in order to enable them in the prototype. You will see a list of links inspired by the MoreMenu. What do you think of the placement of these tools with the other page tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not and what you would prefer instead?
 * I would expect to see Advanced tools section already as a part of the right sidebar, just collapsed. Preferably just under "Tools" section, because I often purge and look for subpages. I see absolutely no need for an extra corner button. Besides, this corner in my mind is already taken by the Cat-a-lot. I can only assume that "TW" section means Twinkle links but I have no idea what they are; never used them.
 * 1) Navigate to the talk page. Is it important to have identical access to page tools on talk pages? Should it be different? If yes, what do you think we should do with page tools on talk pages?
 * I think that page tools are as important on the talk page as on the page. The most important button for the talk page is, of course, "New section", so I expect to see it next to the "Edit" button. Besides, in this test example, the talk page boxes on top are expanded and take a lot of space; my immediate thought was to look for a "skip to the start of actual discussions" button. Having scrolled down the page I finally noticed the contents on the sidebar. I understand why the "Introduction" section, though it looks weird to see those templates on top included as a separate section of discussion because I don't perceive them as such.
 * 1) Please add any final thoughts, ideas, or questions.
 * Going back to me not using wiki navigation that much: this is true for Wikipedia and less true for MediaWiki-wiki. This is why it is hard to answer whether the sidebars have to be open or collapses: it doesn't matter to me: I will just have them both open on all wikis and collapse the left one on Wikipedia, but I have no idea what's better for newer users and readers. -- Ата (talk) 11:31, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Username:NGC 54

 * 1) Find the "What links here" and "Download as PDF" links. If you can't please let us know.
 * I find them.
 * 1) We have moved the page tools to the other side of the page (opposite from the sidebar). What do you think of this new location for these tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not, and what you would prefer instead?
 * I do not have problems.
 * 1) Focus on the new sidebar, above the new table of contents. As noted in the introduction, we've split the old sidebar into two menus: wiki navigation and page tools. What do you think of this split? Are there items you think are in the wrong menu? Are there items that are missing?
 * No comment.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the wiki navigation (the old sidebar). What do you think? Do you think this menu should be open or collapsed by default? Remember, the state of the menu will be persistent between pages. If you collapse it it will stay collapsed.
 * No comment.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the page tools. What do you think?
 * No comment.
 * 1) We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar. What do you think of this new order? Do you have any concerns?
 * It is better. Underlying is a good idea.
 * 1) Do you often use tools for advanced users? If no, you can skip this question. If yes, click on the checkbox in the lower right corner called "Advanced tools" in order to enable them in the prototype. You will see a list of links inspired by the MoreMenu. What do you think of the placement of these tools with the other page tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not and what you would prefer instead?
 * I often use these tools. Moving a page is a common action, so I would not call it "advanced tool". The "..." from "Page logs...", "Analysis" and so on is annoying.
 * 1) Navigate to the talk page. Is it important to have identical access to page tools on talk pages? Should it be different? If yes, what do you think we should do with page tools on talk pages?
 * The sticky header should include an "Add a topic" button.
 * 1) Please add any final thoughts, ideas, or questions.
 * The limited content width is still annoying. The floating ToC is a good idea. Maybe a floating infobox would fill the right empty space and would make the text to no longer be as narrow. The order of the article tools is "Article", "Talk", "Read", "Edit", "Edit source" and "View history". The order in the sticky header is ("Article" and "Read" are not needed in the sticky header) "Talk", "View history" "Edit source" and "Edit", which is confusing. The order should be "Talk", "Edit", "Edit source" and "View history". The watchlist and the notifications are missing from the sticky header. The watchlist could be integrated in the collapsed menu of the sticky header and the alerts and notices between the languages menu and the collapsed user menu, or the all three between the languages menu and the collapsed user menu. When typing something in the search box of the sticky header, the text is not automatically moved into the main search box when the sticky header disappears and vice versa. This should be fixed. What do you think about improving the location and the design of the category bar? I believe that a lot of readers ignore the categories. The site navigation and the tools menu are also too transparent. -- NGC 54  ( talk |  contribs ) 12:24, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Utente:Yiyi
(feedback from the Ambasciata on it.wiki--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 20:04, 27 March 2022 (UTC))

Quando vado a collassare i menù laterali, questi vanno a sovrapporsi all'indice (menù di sinistra) e al corpo della voce (menù di destra), rendendo il tutto piuttosto fastidioso. Bisognerebbe fare in modo che questi si riducessero davvero. Uso Chrome su Windows 10. -- Yi  yi  12:43, 26 mar 2022 (CET)
 * "Collapsing the side menus means that they overlap the table of contents (left menu) and the body of the item (right menu), making it rather annoying. It would be necessary to make them really collapsed. (Translation by --Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:44, 29 March 2022 (UTC))

Utente:ValterVB
(feedback from the Ambasciata on it.wiki--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 20:04, 27 March 2022 (UTC))

Come Yiyi, "Riduci menù" non riduce il menù ma lo sposta; in quello a sx copre addirittura il template, no Buono. Edge su Windows 11 pro --ValterVB (msg) 20:39, 26 mar 2022 (CET)
 * "Quoting Yiyi, clicking on "collapse menu" doesn't really collapse it but it moves the menu over others elements, like the template. It's not good." (Translation by --Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:46, 29 March 2022 (UTC))

Utente:SuperSpritz
(feedback from the Ambasciata on it.wiki--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 20:04, 27 March 2022 (UTC))

Posso dire che il posizionamento delle immagini nel corpo della voce è decisamente pessimo e peggiora la fruibilità e la leggibilità della voce? Mi auguro che venga sistemato in un prossimo prototipo. Anche i menu laterali mi sembrano un po' troppo "intrusivi" quanto a dimensioni.-- SuperSpritz l'adminalcolico  23:39, 26 mar 2022 (CET)
 * "In my opinion, the position of the images in the text is a regression, worsening the usability and readability of the article. Also the side menus seem to me a little too "intrusive" in terms of size." (Freely translated by --Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 11:51, 29 March 2022 (UTC))

Username:Verbarson

 * 1) Find the "What links here" and "Download as PDF" links. If you can't please let us know.
 * ...OK
 * 1) We have moved the page tools to the other side of the page (opposite from the sidebar). What do you think of this new location for these tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not, and what you would prefer instead?
 * ...Suits me. I use a wide screen, and it was wasted space.
 * 1) Focus on the new sidebar, above the new table of contents. As noted in the introduction, we've split the old sidebar into two menus: wiki navigation and page tools. What do you think of this split? Are there items you think are in the wrong menu? Are there items that are missing?
 * ...Looks OK
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the wiki navigation (the old sidebar). What do you think? Do you think this menu should be open or collapsed by default? Remember, the state of the menu will be persistent between pages. If you collapse it it will stay collapsed.
 * ...Collapsed it..it became on overlay..clicked away..it vanished..took me a moment to find it in the hamburger menu. OK behaviour if you are used to it, but I would really expect a single-line 'Expand menu' item to remain visible on the page. Lose the hamburger. I would probably keep it collapsed, come to think about it.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the page tools. What do you think?
 * ...Same feelings as above, though I suppose some people will appreciate having a narrower page and using the page tools from an overlaid pop-up.
 * 1) We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar. What do you think of this new order? Do you have any concerns?
 * ...I think it makes more sense, though I don't really care much.
 * 1) Do you often use tools for advanced users? If no, you can skip this question. If yes, click on the checkbox in the lower right corner called "Advanced tools" in order to enable them in the prototype. You will see a list of links inspired by the MoreMenu. What do you think of the placement of these tools with the other page tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not and what you would prefer instead?
 * ...It seems strange that the toggle option remains on the page even when that part of the menu has scrolled up and off. When you are further down in a long article, toggling Advanced tools on and off appears to have no effect. I would expect a drop-down like 'Print, share, link'
 * 1) Navigate to the talk page. Is it important to have identical access to page tools on talk pages? Should it be different? If yes, what do you think we should do with page tools on talk pages?
 * ...Should be the same for consistency.
 * 1) Please add any final thoughts, ideas, or questions.
 * ...I'd be happy to move to this version.

Nom d’utilisateur :Dom
--Dom (talk) 14:29, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Trouvez les liens « Pages liées » et « Télécharger comme PDF ». Si vous n'y arrivez pas veuillez nous le faire savoir.
 * Trouvés
 * 1) Nous avons déplacé les outils de la page de l'autre côté de la page (en opposition à la barre latérale). Que pensez-vous de ce nouvel emplacement pour ces outils ? Si vous ne l'aimez pas, pouvez-vous nous dire pourquoi et ce que vous préféreriez à la place ?
 * Le nouvel emplacement ne me convient pas, car j'ai conservé une ancienne interface qui me permet de consulter les tableaux larges.
 * 1) Focalisez-vous sur la nouvelle barre latérale, au-dessus du nouveau sommaire. Comme indiqué dans l'introduction, nous avons divisé l'ancienne barre latérale en deux menus : le menu de navigation du wiki et le menu des outils de la page. Que pensez-vous de cette division ? Y a-t-il des éléments qui, selon vous, ne sont pas dans le bon menu ? Y a-t-il des éléments qui manquent ?
 * La division me semble une bonne idée. Le découpage me convient. Pourquoi Wikidata n'est pas affiché avec les autres projets ?
 * 1) Essayez de réduire puis d'épingler le menu de navigation du wiki (l'ancienne barre latérale). Vous pensez que ce menu devrait être déplié ou replié par défaut ? N'oubliez pas que l'état du menu sera persistant entre les pages. Si vous le réduisez, il restera réduit.
 * déplié par défaut lors d'une première connexion.
 * 1) Essayez de réduire puis d'épingler les outils de la page. Qu'en pensez vous ?
 * Je n'aime pas que l'option « outils » apparaisse et disparaisse en déplaçant les autres options de cette barre. Pourquoi ne pas la mettre dans la marge droite ?
 * 1) Nous avons également inversé l'ordre de la barre du titre de la page et la barre des outils de la page (la barre des onglets). Qu'en pensez vous de ce nouvel ordre ? Avez-vous des réserves ?
 * Ça me semble plus logique, mais je préférerais que cette barre ne se modifie pas lorsqu'on scrolle vers le bas.
 * 1) Vous utilisez souvent les outils pour les contributeurs aguerris ? Si la réponse est non, passez à la question suivante. Si la réponse est oui, tout au fond et à droite de la page, cliquez sur la case à cocher intitulée "Outils avancés", afin de les activer dans le prototype.
 * Oui pour certains. Quelle est la question ?
 * 1) Naviguez dans la page de discussion. Est-il important d'avoir un accès identique aux outils de la page sur les pages de discussion ? Devrait-il être différent ? Si oui, que pensez-vous que nous devrions faire avec les outils de la page sur les pages de discussion ?
 * L'accès doit être le même. Un réel apport serait de visualiser l'article et la page de discussion côte à côte indépendamment sans avoir à jongler avec les onglets.
 * 1) Vous pouvez ajouter n’importe quelles idées, remarques ou questions pour finir.
 * Où apparaîtront les liens que j'ai ajoutés dans la barre de gauche ?

Username:WikiLuke
--WikiLuke (talk) 20:33, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Find the "What links here" and "Download as PDF" links. If you can't please let us know.
 * I found them.
 * 1) We have moved the page tools to the other side of the page (opposite from the sidebar). What do you think of this new location for these tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not, and what you would prefer instead?
 * I don't like it. The main reason is that width of the page content is squeezed again. I think that in the latest releases the width was well balanced but this change will reduce it another time. I know that the menu can be collapsed but this would worsen the access to the tools that now don't need clicks to be reached. Moreover, after the collapse the page content extends to much, as said before I think that the current width is perfect. I'll describe my solution to this problem in the next point.
 * 1) Focus on the new sidebar, above the new table of contents. As noted in the introduction, we've split the old sidebar into two menus: wiki navigation and page tools. What do you think of this split? Are there items you think are in the wrong menu? Are there items that are missing?
 * I like the idea of dividing the wiki navigation from the page tools but I don't like te splitting on the two sides of the page. In my opinion the page tools should be near to the table of contents. So I would like all the tools to remain on the left part of the page. Maybe the wiki navigation could be collapsed by default (except on the main page) since the links are not strictly related to the articles themselves (and I usually don't use them except when I'm on the main page).
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the wiki navigation (the old sidebar). What do you think? Do you think this menu should be open or collapsed by default? Remember, the state of the menu will be persistent between pages. If you collapse it it will stay collapsed.
 * As said in the previous point I'd like it to be collapsed by default in order to move the page tools on the left side of the page to let the width of the content to expand as the current one.
 * 1) Try collapsing and then pinning the page tools. What do you think?
 * I like the idea of collapsing the tools since the vast majority of readers don't contribute on a daily basis and just want to read the page content. Since I'd like the menu to stay on the left side of the page the collapsed menu could stay in the left column as a classic website collapsed dropdown menu. Also, I think the titles "Tools", "In other projects" and "Print, share, link" should be black and clickable (it's annoying that I need to specifically click on the little arrows to collapse the different parts of the menu).
 * 1) We have also flipped the order of the page title bar and page toolbar/tab-bar. What do you think of this new order? Do you have any concerns?
 * I love the new order, it's much more clear.
 * 1) Do you often use tools for advanced users? If no, you can skip this question. If yes, click on the checkbox in the lower right corner called "Advanced tools" in order to enable them in the prototype. You will see a list of links inspired by the MoreMenu. What do you think of the placement of these tools with the other page tools? If you don't like this can you tell us why not and what you would prefer instead?
 * I usually just use a few of them and I like the placement of the tools. I think that the two sections should be collapsed by default.
 * 1) Navigate to the talk page. Is it important to have identical access to page tools on talk pages? Should it be different? If yes, what do you think we should do with page tools on talk pages?
 * In my opinion it is important to have identical access to page tools. So I would prefer the menu on the left side of the page as I described it on the previous points.
 * 1) Please add any final thoughts, ideas, or questions.
 * In the italian prototype there are a two problems: 1) "Download as PDF" and some other tools are not translated. 2) The template and the images are not well positioned and this disrupts the content of the page worsening the reading. I would also like to add two considerations about the table of contents since I didn't partecipate to the previous prototype: 1) I think that the black subtitles should change to bold when the reader scrolls through the specific section of the page. 2) I love the attention to personalization that is put in the design of the collapsable menus so I also would like to be able to move the table of contents from the left side of the page to the previous place. I really like the new disposition of the table and I would keep it as default but I think that in certain articles the reading would be improved if the content of the page could be expanded even more. This would also prevent other criticisms from the contributors that are still skepticals about the width of the page content (with al the menus collapsed and the table again in the middle of the article the width would return to the one of the current released version).

Utilisateur:Jpgibert du Wiktionnaire
(Feedback from the Wikidémie of French Wiktionary--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC))
 * What about really long TOC like this? Can you find a way to show it better, or shorter?
 * For users of the French Wiktionary, on the left side bar there is the link "Poser une question" (and other) for ask questions about words. With the new prototype it will be hidden, not a good idea.
 * it would be interesting to keep the possibility to define (project by project) specific menu items (maybe using the right margin? like the Timeless skin?)
 * the burger menu is not understandable for all users, especially old generations.

Utilisateur:Lmaltier du Wiktionnaire
(Feedback from the Wikidémie of French Wiktionary--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC))
 * About the "disappearance" of links, on the collapsed menus: it is important to choose what links you have to show firstly, because links that allow a better comprehension of the project must be kept accessible. "Poser une question" is important.

Utilisateur:Lepticed7 du Wiktionnaire
(Feedback from the Wikidémie of French Wiktionary--Patafisik (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC))
 * The sticky version of the table of content is a good idea, suppressing or hiding links in a collapsed menu is not.

Username:Jacek555

 * It is an extremely bad idea to narrow the column of text in an article. No, such changes cannot be proposed. This is not an upgrade. The menu should only be on one side of the text. On the talk page, this type of menu is completely unnecessary. Jacek555 (talk) 16:57, 29 March 2022 (UTC)