VisualEditor/Feedback/LQT Archive 1

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 Your feedback about the visual editor developer prototype

This page is a place for you to tell the Wikimedia developers what issues you encounter when using the Visual Editor on this test page (or the old sandbox, which cannot yet edit or save existing pages), which is still an early prototype and has many known issues. We do welcome your feedback and ideas, especially on some of the early user interface decisions we're making!

[//www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Visual_editor/Feedback&action=edit&section=new Add a new comment] – View known bugs – Report a new bug in Bugzilla

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Archives (older archive dates indicate date of initial comments and may span several months; newer archives span one month per archive and are generated by MiszaBot):

Feedback by users that see no feedback link
Some feedback by German users here: de:Wikipedia Diskussion:Kurier

Usability
It's great that you're working on a visual editor.

I've trained non-technical people on wikis and I know there is a strong reluctance for people to do any editing once they see the wiki-markup.

In this spirit, I might suggest putting the 'advanced editor' tools like Wikitext View, JSON View, etc under a single drop-down. My sense is people will see those options, not understand what they mean and decide not to touch anything for fear they'll break it.

I look forward to showing people how easy it is to use the simplified editor.

Upload and Insert Images in one step
Brilliant work! It still lacks some tools, like insert images, videos, audio and documents (pdf, xls, etc) Insert an image or any file from our computer is a complicated process in mediawiki. For common people is almost impossible.

It is so different to the that people get used to in windows and mac applications. In mediawiki you have to click on a link at the sidebar (not in the Editor toolbar) to upload. After that, you have to copy the file name and close the dialog. Then you click in the button to insert. Then you substitute the "File:Example.jpg" by the name previouly copied.

Compare this to the way Wordpress 3.3.1 Editor implemented. They made it so easy to insert images in one single button, one single step! Why don't you use that code? It is well written and it is free. With a few changes you could use that stable and tested code to quickly implement a very useful feature to Visual Editor.

The step by stepUpload Wizard with image copyright may be good for Wikipedia, but is an extension of unnecessary complexity, useless in many other wikis like the one I am developing for fifty thousand users in an intranet environment.

Upload and insert images should be as simple as Wordpress implemented so well in their visual editor.

Enhancements
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0

What about adding LaTeX to the selection of markup formats? Or DocBook XML? Or TEI XML? Is the underlying data model capable of supporting hierarchical structured markup? 109.255.79.69 19:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, TEI is something I would like to see featured as well! I don't know what else that entails though apart from adding XML-like tags. Currently the only way to use that, as far as I'm aware, is Extension:TEITags, but it was specifically created for a transcription project at UCL, and so is not guaranteed to work on any MW site. Cavila MW 1.17, MySQL 5.5.23, Php 5.3.10, SMW 1.7.1 20:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Great Idea, but formating not working using Opera 11.64 Win
User agent: Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; U; de) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.64

I can enter Text, but not a single formatting option works using Opera 11.64 on Windows. Please keep on developing this editor. It will be a great help for us in our internal wiki. It will allow even the secretary to edit additional text without training. Especially a help for Tables will be highly appreciated. 62.225.0.136 05:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

table
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0

When I copy the table into the table in the visual one....The normal noe breaks and never wake upagain. Justincheng12345 (talk) 13:09, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Why not use a typical editor style?
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19

It seems that an editor such as TinyMCE, or the editor that Yahoo uses would be adaptable (or limited) to specific wiki functions.

This would eliminate the pain of designing and coding a new one, and learning the new design by editors, especially "domain experts" who don't even like computers.

HTH

69.168.144.143 22:17, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Great
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0

Good editor. Good Luck and good joob 187.54.35.43 20:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Errors
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_4) AppleWebKit/534.57.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.7 Safari/534.57.2

I have some errors in the current deploy: TypeError: 'null' is not an object (evaluating 'nodes[0].getElement.attributes') 3load.php:20TypeError: 'null' is not an object (evaluating 'node.children') TheDJ (talk) 19:41, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Bold, italics and headings don't always work.
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.56 Safari/536.5

The headings never work. The formatting sometimes breaks. I hope to use this extension as it is released as a usable product with MediaWiki Muqman 52 (talk) 00:26, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Change button text for unsaved 'are you sure' dialog?
If you try and leave a page that you've edited before saving, you get a nice dialog box confirming you want to leave. The text is Are you sure you want to go back to view mode without saving first? Cancel   OK What would you think of changing the button text from 'Cancel', 'OK' to 'No, take me back' and 'Yes, I'm sure'? It always feels weird to me to answer a yes/no question with ok/cancel rather than yes or no. Bhartshorne (talk) 20:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, (since OK/Cancel is a pretty standard set of button choices) we could reword the question so they make better sense. Something like "You're about to leave the page without saving!  Is that OK? ok/cancel" Bhartshorne (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Control plus arrows doesn't move cursor among words
I'm used to being able to use Control+LeftArrow or Control+RightArrow to move the cursor one word's length leftward or rightward. Doesn't work yet in the Visual Editor. Is that in the plan already? Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 21:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Could be related to 34095. Sumanah 19:40, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Auto-hide of formatting arrow
Once clicked, the formatting arrow's "Bold – Italic – Underline" menu remains expanded when the cursor is moved to another section. Having this intelligently disappear would be more intuitive. Otherwise, this is fantastic! AGK [•] 21:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Linking unsatisfactory
Linking is too simple. You have to word the sentence to incorporate the name of the article. Also, one would expect to be able to link web sites as well as Wikipedia articles. Finally, there is no preview to see if the links are correct. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Toolbar
Hey, the new prototype (ala VisualEditor:Welcome) looks great. I tested a few edits, and I wanted to say both congrats and point out what is not really a bug but a UX choice that I think needs discussion:

Currently users expect "save" "preview" and other such functions to be at the bottom of the page. While I really really really appreciate that the toolbar follows me when I scroll up and down (I can't emphasize this enough), I think it's kind of a broken choice to put the save button in the upper right. It breaks what users expect currently, and feels a little a slow to have to mouse up there.

Are there are any plans to have a bottom toolbar with such functions to complement the current top toolbar? Steven Walling (WMF) &bull; talk   21:51, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Visual Editor Bugzilla bugs
New visual editor bugs in Bugzilla only get sent to Trevor and Neil(!). This needs to be updated. Kaldari (talk) 21:59, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This seems to be fixed. When I reported a bug an email was sent to me, User:Inez, wikibugs-l, User:Trevor Parscal, User:Robmoen and User:Catrope. Helder 12:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Unparsed interface
When I clicked on Save, there was an item with the (wiki)text " This is a minor edit " but I think it should be parsed, as in "This is a minor edit". Helder 22:01, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Argh, thanks - we caught one of those, but clearly missed this one.
 * Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:12, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Undefined link target
When I clicked on the "our feedback page" link which was in the text of the page VisualEditor:Welcome (before it was moved to Visual editor/Welcome), it loaded the page

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Undefined

I'm using Firefox 9.0.1 on Windos XP. Helder 22:07, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Navigation and selecting text in the summary field
If I type "something" in the summary and then try to use SHIFT+Home, or SHIFT+Left arrow, or triple click to select the text, nothing happens. I'm using Firefox 9.0.1. Helder 22:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * +1. -- Rillke (talk) 10:54, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Are there edit conflicts?
I've [//www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=next&oldid=552684 removed content] from previous edits but got no warning about that. Helder 22:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, we discovered this during deployment. A priority right away, certainly!
 * Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Reported on 37828. Helder 12:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

mid-air collisions are not detected (currently)
I "lost" my edits due to a mid-air collision. Currently there appears to be no mechanism to detect if someone edits a text which you opened and changed and saved before... I thought we have edit tokens --Wikinaut (talk) 00:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Reported on 37828. Helder 12:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Missing tooltips
It shows the name of the MediaWiki message (i.e. "&amp;lt;visualeditor-formatdropdown-tooltip&amp;gt;") instead of the appropriated tooltip in the "Paragraph" menu (it is not listed on Special:AllMessages either). The same happens for other entris of that menu (the headers). Helder 22:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Editing talk pages
Contributing effectively usually requires interaction on talk pages. If the visual editor only supports articles and not talk pages, and as a result they only work on articles and don't pay any attention to talk pages, they will not be welcomed into the community and will be turned against Wikipedia. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This is temporary. Right now we're only testing the editor itself.--Jasper Deng (talk) 22:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Shift+enter for numbered lists
I believe being able to start a new line within numbered lists would be quite nice. Use Shift+Enter for that, just as every website on the internet does (including Facebook, though YouTube dropped support for it just now). Johnanth (talk) 22:31, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

s is undefined
I just got the following error after clicking on "edit" using Firefox 9.0.1 Error: s is undefined Source: https://bits.wikimedia.org/www.mediawiki.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scripts&skin=vector&version=20120611T151323Z Line: 159 The page grayed out but nothing else happened. Helder 22:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Try here: Polimerek (talk) 23:06, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So far so good... =) Helder 23:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Dropdown menu with no text
Is the dropdown menu supposed to have no text right after the page finish loading? On https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:VisualEditorSandbox?debug=1 the text "Paragraph" only appears after I click in the menu some times. Helder 23:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes - we could instantiate the caret by default at the start of the article (and so force it to have a value). Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 23:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

mw.util.wikiGetLink
I have this error with Firefox : Erreur : mw.util.wikiGetLink is not a function Fichier Source : http://bits.wikimedia.org/www.mediawiki.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=fr&modules=ext.visualEditor.core%7Crangy&skin=vector&version=20120621T224945Z&* Ligne : 215 Ltrl G☎, le 23:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, yes, this should be fixed in the next few minutes.
 * Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 23:12, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Triple click doesn't work
On other namespaces, if I click three times in a row over a word, Firefox 9 selects the whole paragraph, but on Visual Editor nothing happens. Helder 23:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Double click selects spaces
If I double click a word to apply bold, the editor also select the space which is after the word (e.g. [//www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=552632 ]). It should only select the word itself. Helder 23:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

CTRL+Left arrow doesn't work as expected
I was trying to use CTRL+Left arrow to move the cursor to the left, but it only moves one character at time (instead of one word at time). Helder 23:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Curiously, it works fine for selection (i.e. CTRL+SHIFT+Left arrow).
 * The right arrow behaves the same way as the left one. Helder 23:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Clear formatting doesn't remove section titles
It remove bolds, italics, but not the. Helder 23:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

range is null
If I open https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:VisualEditorSandbox?debug=1 and click on "Numbered list" as soon as the page is loaded, I get: Error: range is null Source file: https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf5/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/ve/ve.Document.js Line: 50 ve.Document.prototype.selectNodes = function( range, mode ) { range.normalize; Helder 23:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Cancel edit?
If the user click in the "edit" link and then do not want to edit anymore, it should be able to click in some "Cancel" button/link (maybe the "Save page" button which is just disabled could be replaced by the cancel? Or we could have both?). Helder 23:31, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

ESC doesn't exit the save popup
If the user press ESC while the save popup is open, it should just return to the edit mode, but it does nothing unless we click in the [x] button. Helder 23:32, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Help link (?) should open in a new tab
Currently the (?) link in the "save your changes" popup is trying to open the target in the same page, so Firefox ask me if I want to leave the page and lose the changes I've made. Helder 23:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

end is undefined
Open https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Test?debug=1 click in "edit", wait the editor to be loaded and then press CTRL+A. If I do this I get: Erro: end is undefined Arquivo-fonte: https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf5/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/ve/ce/ve.ce.Surface.js Linha: 833 rangyRange.setEnd( end.node, end.offset ); Helder 23:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * After that, if I press "delete", I get:

Erro: this.data[offset] is undefined Arquivo-fonte: https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf5/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/ve/dm/ve.dm.Document.js Linha: 479 annotations = ve.isArray( this.data[offset] ) ? this.data[offset][1] : this.data[offset].annotations;
 * two times. Helder 23:47, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

rect is undefined
I get this: Erro: rect is undefined Arquivo-fonte: https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf5/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/rangy/rangy-position.js Linha: 215 return { x: rect.left, y: rect.top }; Helder 23:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Open https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Test?debug=1
 * 2) Click "edit" and wait the editor to be loaded
 * 3) Scroll to the end of the page, press SHIFT and click right after the last character.
 * 4) Press "delete"

issues in Safari on iPad
Since you asked for feedback on mobile platforns... Two big issues right off.

- PKM (talk) 23:50, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * backspace backs out all content entry, not one character.
 * iPad pop-up select dialog seems to trump the MW link pop-up...at least most of the time. Got it work once and can't repeat it.

node is null
Sometimes I get: Erro: node is null Arquivo-fonte: https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.20wmf5/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/ve/ce/ve.ce.Document.js Linha: 21 if ( !node.canHaveChildren ) { Helder 23:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Open https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor:Test?debug=1
 * 2) Click "edit" and wait the editor to be loaded
 * 3) Type "a"
 * 4) Click "Undo"

Links to invalid titles
The editor should not allow [//www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=VisualEditor%3ATest&diff=552858&oldid=552851 links to invalid titles]. Helder 00:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

How to end the list
Hi,

If I switch on list button - then it is OK - I just add one item after another by pressing enter on my keyboard. But then I want to finish the list and be able to continue adding non-listed paragraphs. So in order to do it - as in "normal" text edditors I click the list button in hope to "switch it off" - the effect is that all the list is changing to normal paragraphs. So, I redo and try again... Then after some experiments I finally learned that the only way to finish the list is double enter, and then start edditing again. But then if I delete one "invisible" enter, I am back to list - but not exactly - as my paragraph is for some reasons idented but not numbered... OK - so I write anyway, and then my use to be idented paragraph is glued to the numbered list above and I am back trapped in the list... Gosh.. so I press enter - the effect - another listed item - grr.. so I double enter and all the story begin again...   It is terrible and counter intuitive. The list buttons must "remember" its status of being "switched on" and "off" inside and outside the lists. Sometimes also the text which seems to be in the next paragraph under the list behaves really strange... For example I've got something like that:
 * 1) OK. Let's start numbered list (click enter)
 * 2) List (click enter)
 * 3) List (click enter)
 * 4) List - (now I want to escape from the list, so I press enter twice)

nd then click below the list... Good - it seems I escaped from the list...

A but not really, because for some reason my lines are "jumping back and forth"

There is also problem with integrating together two numbered list. For example I made by mistake two lists

(double enter)
 * 1) one
 * 2) two
 * 3) three
 * 1) four
 * 2) five

Try to delete double enter and integrate two list - It seems to be immposible...

Polimerek (talk) 00:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Question
Why is there no ability to convert to editing in wikitext? I see that it is reserved for administrators of the project, is there a reason for this? I would like to see how the wikitext versus the editor integrate. Perhaps something like the way wordpress does it would work.Ryan Vesey (talk) 21:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The primary reason is because we don't want users adding things that would break the editor.--Jasper Deng (talk) 21:44, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Jasper's right. We definitely will have both editors enabled in later deployments. You can see through the history tab's diffs what changes with the wikitext. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 22:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Exit edit mode
Took me an extra few seconds to figure out the way to exit edit mode without saving. Perhaps there should be a clearer "cancel" somewhere? Next to save? Reh man  01:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * See above: . Helder 02:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Issues with Bold and Italics
When trying to use bold and italics I run into some problems. You should be able to click bold, then type your content then unclick bold. That doesn't work, you need to highlight information and then click bold and somehow choose it from a little menu that appears under the highlighted text. The same thing happens with italics. Integration with ctrl codes would be useful. Ctrl+b for bold ctrl+i for italics.Ryan Vesey (talk) 02:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This seems to be 33140. Helder 12:22, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Integration with Microsoft Word
I don't know if anybody is familiar with editing using wordpress, but there is an option to add text from microsoft word. Clicking import from word opens a special window and you can paste the content into that window. The window will modify it to make it compatible with wordpress, could we do something similar?Ryan Vesey (talk) 02:23, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That seems to be 33105. Helder 02:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

My feedback
I have several issues that need addressing:

No editnotice
It should be possible to create a (dismissable) editnotice in the future.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I would say also that it may be better to show people the info about the CC-BY-SA licence before they start contributing to the page (to avoid lost effort for people who do not agree with the conditions). This could be in a (modal) popup right after clicking on "edit". Helder 12:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Linking and text selecting is wrong
I should be able to select any amount of text and press the link button above to create a link. Instead that "link" button above does absolutely nothing; it is also very inconvenient that the little arrow that's supposed to show a menu does not show up consistently when I select, especially if I select more than one character.

Text replacing a link simply equals a blank
When I delete a link and replace it with text and save, I have to re-save; the initial save produces nothing in place of the deleted link.

The buttons at the top should have the desired effects on the selected text
Currently the bold and italic buttons do nothing to the currently-selected text, and they don't even turn on italic typing when clicked without any text selected.

This is a great start, but of course it needs work.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

bots
Have you thought about bots, editing a Visual Wiki? --92.204.110.186 05:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's going to be difficult for bots to understand. Bots will have a hard time recognizing things like external links. Anyone however is able to develop a bot library for the visual editor too.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Since the wikitext will remain the storage format and editable, bots should not be affected by the VE at all.
 * Parsoid produces an annotated HTML DOM (see for example http://parsoid.wmflabs.org/mw:VisualEditor:Test), which should actually be easier to edit for bots than wikitext. This DOM then serializes back to the wikitext. -- Gabriel Wicke (GWicke) (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Unable to enter UTF8 text
Trying to use input method to type in kn (Kannada). it doesn't work. Just love the way we would be editing wiki in coming days on local language wiki's with this Visual Editor.
 * Yes. Even it is not working for Malayalam. Once we enter a new character previous character vanishes. --Anoopan (talk) 05:40, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I have Problems at the End of the Page. If you scroll down on a well filled Test Page and Edit something at the End, the lines disappears after pressing Enter ...

Link behavior
When dealing with links I found some strange aspects: Pginer (talk) 06:25, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to select the link text to edit link properties. Placing the cursor inside a link should be enough instead.
 * When a link is selected, the link icon at the toolbar looks as pressed. This makes the impression that you can disable the link by pressing it again (as it happens with the bold icon for example). However, the button takes you to "edit link" options. I think it is better to do the following: once you select a link, the link button at the toolbar can show three dots next to the link image to represent the idea of "edit link".


 * Unrelated to the above, links should be saved in the short format when possible. For example, text "Beograda" that links to "Beograd" should be saved as Beograda not as Beograda . (enhancement)
 * Also, if linking to a nonexisting article, the link should be red. Perhaps you could also offer the existing pages as the user is typing the link. This requires Ajax, but shouldn't be hard to do, you may see how Wikidata did it. (enhancement)
 * It would be VERY VERY VERY nice if you could, when you select text, somehow get to the pop-up menu without leaving the keyboard. Not sure what key combination should be used for this, though. Tab perhaps? If that is done, it should be possible to tab through the menu as well. (enhancement)
 * Finally, if you select a text with space at the end (and/or the beginning) and make a link, the space is going to be included in the link. This is almost never desired, and I have commonly see it happen in visual HTML editors - I'm not sure if it should be fixed silently or if the user should be asked what does he want. (bug) Nikola (talk) 07:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The "suggest a title" part of your second item is 37491 / 33053.
 * The last one is 33053. Helder 12:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Differentiate editing mode from reading mode
I was confused at some point as to whether I was in editing or reading mode (since it looks the same). Simple thing maybe change the background of the page (a light gray or something) when you're editing, so that you can see which mode you're in. notafish (talk) 08:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Editor doesn't respect "Add pages I edit to my watchlist" preference
Just one of those weird little things I cba to file a bug for, but can be bothered to post here about :P Jarry1250 (talk) 10:50, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Editing from previous version
Not sure if this is the way it is supposed to happen, but if I go into the page history and select a previous version, and try to edit from that version instead of the current one, the editor still opens with the current text. GoEThe (talk) 11:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

no support for multi-level lists
I'm sure you're aware of this, but I didnt see it documented: It appears there's no way to create a multi-level list, e.g,


 * item 1
 * item 2
 * item 3
 * item 4
 * item 5
 * item 6