Structured Discussions/Deprecation

Structured Discussions (SD - Flow) is used on a few wikis. This extension is not maintained. DiscussionTools (DT) is the default discussion system on wikis now.

The Growth team (SD maintainers) and the Editing team (DT maintainers) have started thinking about how to deprecate Structured Discussions (and possibly LiquidThreads) and replace them with DiscussionTools.

Structured Discussions are a complexe piece of software that generates a lot of maintenance issues. Estimating the work required to adapt Structured Discussions to the IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation project revealed a very significant workload. In view of all these challenges, the decision was taken to inform the communities of the future depreciation of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to encourage communities to switch active Structured Discussions tools to the DiscussionTools talk page format. Then, the Structured Discussions pages would be removed from the wikis, at a yet to-be-defined date.

Project updates

 * 2022-06-08: first internal document by Kosta Harlan (Staff software engineer, Growth team) and Benoît Evellin (Community Relations Specialist, attached to the Growth team) on sunsetting SD
 * 2023-03-14: first meeting with Growth and Editing about SD deprecation
 * 2023-03-14: Comparison table of the two tools.
 * 2023-03-29: creation of the project page
 * 2023-09: Data on usage of Structured Discussions
 * Now: Community discussions regarding archiving SD boards on wikis.

Structured Discussions' deprecation
The Wikimedia Foundation working on changes to how IP editing is handled: IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. Temporary accounts for unregistered editors will be a new type of user account. This requires changing how the features we use to contribute to the wikis' work.

This work concerns all features, and it raises some challenges. The case of Structured Discussions (also known as “SD” or “Flow”) is one of them. This extension is used at a few wikis, that are progressively contacted in November and December 2023. Flow is a complex piece of software that was never quite finished, fits poorly into the MediaWiki architecture, and creates a significant number of technical errors.

The usage of Structured Discussions is low. In August 2023, on average DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day, while Structured Discussions is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.

We considered several options to adapt Structured Discussions: a full adaptation; a partial adaptation where Temp accounts can respond but not create new conversations. All of them would take a lot of time and effort for a short-term benefit. Also, the Wikimedia Foundation's long-term plan is to remove Structured Discussions from the wikis, mainly due to the maintenance cost. As a consequence, we prefer to avoid adapting Structured Discussions to Temporary accounts.

We take the opportunity of the work around Temporary accounts to question the concerned communities regarding the future of Structured Discussions.

Discussion tools are the replacement for Structured Discussions. They are the default discussion system at all wikis. They allow anyone to start, reply or subscribe to a conversation. They provide a visual experience on wikitext-based conversations, and they cover the vast majority of features Structured Discussions offer.

The goal with this conversation is to respond to community's questions regarding the archival of Structured Discussions.

The idea is to proceed in two stages:

We encourage communities to start the first step.
 * 1) discussion pages using SD are archived as subpages. They are replaced by a classic discussion page. In this way, the most active pages will already be ready when we proceed to step 2.
 * 2) SD are removed from the wiki. Existing pages (including archived ones) will be converted to a format yet to be defined.

Questions asked to the communities
Starting at the end of November 2023, communities where Structured Discussions are still in use are progressively informed of the upcoming deprecation. We ask them the following questions:


 * 1) Are the reasons given for archiving structured discussions clear?
 * 2) Are the two steps outlined above for archiving and uninstalling structured discussions clear?
 * 3) If so, what is a reasonable timeframe for archiving pages for deinstallation? At present, deinstallation is not planned on our side (even if the second quarter of 2024 is mentioned), as we are waiting for the end of these conversations, which take place on multiple wikis.
 * 4) In your opinion, what format should pages currently using SDs be converted to when we proceed with the deinstallation of structured discussions?

You can share your answers to these questions on the talk page.

Data on usage
In August 2023, on average:


 * DiscussionTools is used about 18,780 times per day.
 * Flow is used about 250 times per day, mainly at French Wikipedia.
 * LiquidThreads is used less than once per day.