Project talk:IP page creation proposal

i'm not really seeing the evidence of this massive problem. looking at the deletion log, i see perhaps 10 deletions per day. i didn't count how many of those were pages created by anons, but even if it's all of them, that hardly seems like a huge problem. since a lot of page creations seem to be accidents, perhaps the editnotice for new pages could be made a bit larger. Kate 16:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no objection to this proposal in principle (though I haven't done much new page patrol recently, so can't comment on the scale of the problem), so long as: -- HappyDog 16:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * IPs can still edit pages (this only stops them creating new ones).
 * We are able to give a specific error message in this situation. It should explain exactly why they can't create the page, that they are able to edit existing pages, and that registering/logging in will allow them to create pages as well.  A generic 'permission denied' message is not sufficient.


 * If there is not a problem (which, looking at the deletion log, there isn't) then I don't see why we should restrict anonymous from creating pages which can often be useful - especially given our wide community. MinuteElectron 16:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if that reply was aimed at me, or not (indentation implies it is), but I agree that if there is no problem then we should leave things as they are. I am not in any position to make that judgement myself though, I was just stating a couple of important caveats to bear in mind if this proposal gains consensus. --HappyDog 16:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

"Truly massive"?
I see ten or fewer pages deleted per day by admins. None of them have complained about this gruesome burden until now. I think we might be able to permit anons to continue making pages for the foreseeable future, without suffering undue risk of the site spontaneously self-destructing or suffering admin revolt under the strain of unrestricted page creation. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 16:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Simetrical. With the massive amount of active admins here coupled with the fact that it takes many admins with some sort of script about two seconds to delete a page (if that), and only around 10 deletions per day, that encompasses about, what, 20 seconds? That's less than a minute if even one admin was doing it all by themselves. That, coupled with the fact that there are many other reasons to look at RecentChanges other than to look for vandalism/test pages, de-bases your indication that this is a "massive problem", or even a "problem". @AnonDiss, in the future please try to actually get factual evidence before you start some random discussion that almost nobody on this site except for you seems to care about... Yes, I know that's harsh, but frankly, this and the discussion you started about Steward policy here both shared a seeming lack of thought before you made them. -- Skiz zerz  20:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Your figure is completely incorrect, Simetrical. We get around 450 pages deleted a month; look for yourself. Hardly "ten or fewer". That number is ridiculous for a wiki so remote as this one. We have more junk pages created than proper ones! More evidence? Think of it this way: If these junk pages were allowed to remain, it would only take around 7 months for the site to double in size. And Skizzerz - there's your factual evidence. For your information, my remarks on the Stewards page were based on cold hard policy, and it was actually the community that decided to go against that - which is fine, but my remark was within policy as it stood, and as it happens, as it still stands. Finally, I created this discussion to see if anyone else did care - if they don't, then that's fine, but how else am I supposed to know the thoughts of the community without discussion? &mdash; Anonymous Dissident  Talk 05:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

A lot of junk pages are created and deleted during a week, that's true. However, removing page creation rights from anonymous users might not actually solve the problem &mdash; only move it. Think about it. If anons figured out, "hey, I can't create pages but this user:X guy can, maybe I need an account", then they'd start creating accounts and posting the irrelevant junk pages under a username.

As Kate said, we need to make the edit page notice larger. Maybe translations of the notice would help, too. As a long-term solution, we should have a test wiki for users (test.wp is for developers rather than users) and a notice on the main page just as Trac wiki does. Sure, this wouldn't totally "fix" the issue, but it'd most likely lower the amount of junk/nonsense pages created if the users had their own test wiki. -- Sayuri 10:20, 20 September 2008 (UTC)