Manual talk:Installation guide/Archive

Please Discuss Your Revert
I disagree about the Appendix being better then the sidebar. Why is it better? What benefit does an appendix provide? Using a template means the list only needs to be updated in one place instead of two. Also a template can be added to all of the other install pages making them look more consistent, like they are part of a body of documentation instead of disconnected pages. Also, wouldn't most users want to jump instantly to directions for their specific operating system instead of having to read through the page to find the appendix?

Also, you changed the link from Manual:Configuring MediaWiki to Manual:Config script which is just a redirect to Manual:Configuring MediaWiki. Same goes for Manual:Manual configuration and Manual:LocalSettings.php. --Cneubauer 18:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's my various reasonings:
 * The side-bar is messy, and gives undue prominence to these articles. The whole point of the installation guide is to give a simple set of pages to get MediaWiki up-and-running in a standard scenario.  We don't want to baffle our readers with loads of different alternatives that (particularly in their current state) are over-complicated and hard to read.  Too many options = too hard to locate the information you need.  I am less concerned with how the template is used elsewhere, as there are currently several parallel versions of documentation that we need to merge, so I'm not going to spend time fixing stuff that will ultimately be deleted anyway.  If you think we should use the template for 'keeping in sync' reasons, then it needs to be tidied up to look more like the appendix list and transcluded at the bottom of the page, rather than as a box-out in the header. Re: your point about 'most users', above.  I would say that most users want to know how to install MediaWiki in as simple a way as possible.  The system pages go into far too much detail to be useful to most users, but are very valuable resources for those users when they get into trouble and things don't work as expected (due to the vagaries of their system), so no, I don't think it is the first port of call.  The main installation guide should get 90% of users up and running with the minimum amount of fuss, with the appendices providing help for the remaining 10% when they encounter problems.
 * Manual:Configuring MediaWiki to Manual:Config script - Config script will hold a detailed walk-through for using the config script. Configuring MediaWiki should deal with local settings.  I created the redirect because until this is written, it's better to link there.
 * Manual:Manual configuration to Manual:LocalSettings.php - Ditto. At time of writing there was no page about manually configuring MW beyond the LocalSettings page, so I made it a temporary redirect.  Now, however, Configuring MediaWiki exists and is closer to what I intended with Manual configuration, so I'm going to change the link to point there instead.
 * I am aware that I have not necessarily explained all this very well, so please ask for more clarification if needed. My point in creating this installation guide is that most of our existing installation documentation is not very user-friendly.  It is an attempt to rework (and ultimately replace) the existing install docs, which is very much a work in progress, which is why you will find a lot of duplication at the moment.  What I don't want to happen (and which you have started to do by splitting up Manual:Installation) is to end up with a new page that simply links to the bad-old docs, however, if those pages get rewritten instead of just moved about then we might end up with something decent...  :) --HappyDog 18:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I agree with your point about a simple set of instructions being desirable. I think the template actually looks better but we can agree to disagree on that one.  My goal in splitting out Manual:Installation is to make it more manageable.  I think ultimately what we want is something more like Manual:Installation guide.  A simple overview with links to more detailed information on how to do each piece of the installation if a user encounters problems.  However, I didn't want to destroy Manual:Installation since its the best page we have at the moment, installation wise, so I transcluded everything back in.  I've been slowly gathering all of the various pieces out of the Manual namespace and collecting them on the hub pages.  I am working on improving and merging the individual pieces as I go.  --Cneubauer 18:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * That's fine by me. I've done a rewrite of Manual:Installation requirements, which is now arguably too wordy, but is more complete.  I incorporated all the requirements-based info that was already on the page, as well as the stuff at Installation (the destination of the previous redirect).  That page is now obsolete, but should not be removed until we've got the guide into shape, as it's part of our general introduction. --HappyDog 20:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)