Extension talk:Word2MediaWikiPlus


 * For bug reports use the Bug Tracker.
 * For feature requests use the Feature Requests Tracker.

The old talk page has been archived for reference while the project is restructured.

This project is active again
The author of this project, Gunter Schmidt, kindly granted permission for the community to continue working on this project:

-- Forwarded message -- From: Gunter Schmidt Date: 08/02/2007 18:31 Subject: Re: Project Word2MediaWikiPlus To: Fernando Correia

Dear Mr. Correia,

I have noticed, you do a lot of contributing work to the community and seem to have the same issues as I do. I am implementing a MediaWiki as the primary documentation system for our SAP-System.

For getting a better acceptance (and for the fun of it) I completly rewrote the Word2wiki-converter, and yes, I did put it under the GPL license, so feel free to use it.

I was thinking on going commercial with it, but keeping it GPL for non-commercial usage, as I found, I had some completly new approches to some problems (and it took me some reseach time to develop it).

Right now my real job needs too much attention for continuing the project.

best, Gunter Schmidt

Need of starting Word2MediaWikiPlus on sourceforge.net
Currently the only place I found a download of Word2MediaWikiPlus.zip is from a forum post attachment. This however was version 0.6b. It would be great if Word2MediaWikiPlus was on CVS since it has undergone a lot of modifications/enhancements/bug-fixes. The *.bas files could be extracted and stored under version-control. This would help a lot in storing/logging history of changes.

If Gunter Schmidt is happy with us continuing development on Word2MediaWikiPlus and the community agrees to store it under version control, then which version should we put in? I have version 0.6b. Who was 0.7b?

--Kevingpo 11:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear about your interest. I've got version 0.7b and I have it packaged and ready to publish. Gunter says it is the latest usable version. I already requested a project on SourceForge where we can keep version history. The answer should come in a few days. I think this tool is very useful and I hope some members of the community will join forces to maintain it. For instance, it needs to be adjusted to support Word 2007. --Fernando Correia 11:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol. I tried creating a 'word2mediawikip' project on sf.net (limited to 15 characters). But sf.net says there's already a request in. Anyway, so you will you be extracting all the *.frm & *.bas files from the Word document. The frm & bas files are plain text and when stored in sf.net CVS, we can use their web tools such as diff/compare/merge. Whenever we create a version release, we just create a "Label" or "Tag" which maps/notes all the specific version numbers of each file. I think we'll manually update the frm & bas modules inside Word document then zip it up and put it as release. We need to make sure it is still compatible with 2000 through to 2007 (when we make adjustments for it to work under 2007). --Kevingpo 13:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds like a good plan. We can publish the source as separate text files and a binary (Word Document) release. If you would like to help in this I'd be glad to give you write access on the sourceforge project. --Fernando Correia 15:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That would be cool yeah. My sf.net account is same name as this mediawiki one. I use Office 2000 so that would help maintaining compatibility. And am sure many other people would participate too. --Kevingpo 15:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Tips on how to write Word document for use in W2MW+
Guidelines:


 * By default, the Word filename will be used for the main title of the wiki page (however this can be changed during conversion).
 * Use 'Heading 1', 'Heading 2', etc styles for headings of main sections. 'Heading 2', etc. being a sub-section, etc. A *table-of-contents get automatically generated for top of the wiki page, with appropriate indentation of the menu.
 * Create 'Hyperlink's or 'email address links' in Word and it will get converted.
 * Spaces prefixing a line will be ignored. Use tabs instead.
 * Page Breaks will create a horizontal line in wiki page.
 * If numeric or dot-bullet-points are used (without 'Heading' style), then it's treated as a normal list.

Things will not work:


 * Coloured-in text background.
 * Indented text using the left-border stopper.
 * Different font types.

--Kevingpo 14:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The title should be the document title (File->Properties), not the filename. Platonides 20:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, but only the default title. It would be good to have an editable combo box where the first option were the document title, the second the file name and the user could type another title. The reason is that many users don't change the document title and it is meaningless. --Fernando Correia 22:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment
Why was Word2MediaWikiPlus originally on meta.wikimedia.org then transferred over here to www.mediawiki.org? Also, will we create a nice front page on the 'Extension'?


 * The Wikimedia project administrators are moving content related to the MediaWiki software from the Meta website to the MediaWiki website. This was a planned move that will be applied for all other extensions. And yes, we'll surely create a very good documentation. As soon as the sourceforge project is up I plan to revert to the previous documentation, link to the last released version, and we can continue from there. --Fernando Correia 15:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Release plan
When the sourceforge project is activated, I intend to follow this release plan:


 * 1) Upload version 0.6e (installer and source code).
 * 2) Upload version 0.7.0.10-Beta (installer and source code).
 * 3) If we can locate it, upload version 0.7.0.11.
 * 4) Repackage version 0.7 into version 1.0. No source code change, just adding standard comments to all source files.

Version 1.0 will be the starting point for the community contributions. --Fernando Correia 18:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This plan has been executed. Version 0.7.0.11 was not located, though. Version 1.0.0-Beta1 was released for beta test. --Fernando Correia 17:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you still need 0.7.0.11? I found a copy if so. --Christian 13:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Release identification scheme
The releases of this project will by identified according to the following scheme:


 * The identification will be composed of three levels, where each level is an integer number, and of an optional suffix. E.g. Word2MediaWikiPlus-1.2.3-RC1.
 * The starting identification will be 1.0.0.
 * The first level will be incremented when new features are added that are significant relatively to the entire set of features.
 * The second level will be incremented when there are new functionalities or changes that are minor relatively to the entire set of features.
 * The third level will be incremented in case of error corrections or very small changes like UI positioning or message wording.
 * The Alpha{N} suffix will identify alpha releases, that is, releases that are not ready for production and are being submitted to the developers to demonstrate the current state of development and for early testing.
 * The Beta{N} suffix will identify beta test releases, that is, releases that are not ready for production and are being submitted to tests.
 * The RC{N} suffix will identify release candidates, that is, releases that are supposed to be ready for production and are being submitted to final acceptance test.

For more information see Software release life cycle and Software versioning.

Status of SourceForge project
Good news! The project on SourceForge has been created.

I have uploaded the old versions I had here. Next steps are to upload the source code to CVS and to create version 1.0.0.

When this is done the project will be released for community collaboration. --Fernando Correia 10:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Update: The project has been created, files have been uploaded and 1.0.0-Beta1 was released. --Fernando Correia 19:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

1.0.0-Beta1 released
The release 1.0.0-Beta1 is out! This is 0.7.0.10 repackaged. Please test this and report the result here so we can release it as stable and use it as a starting point. Thanks! --Fernando Correia 17:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Upload with IE 7
The image upload at any version of the Word2MediawikiPlus doesn't work with the new IE 7. It's only possible to upload images with version 6 of the Internet Explorer or with the Mozilla FireFox 2.0. The text field in which u normally type ur url, Word2Mediawikiplus use this textfield to type in the location\name of the pic which should be uploaded !!! so the Upload doesn't work !! please gimme a solution ! Or tell me, am i Stupid or is it a bug ;-) ! -- 84.147.41.5


 * I was able to make it work in IE 7 by changing the "Tab steps to filename" configuration to 8. I think this number may vary according to the number of toobars that are open. I suggest trying all numbers from 1 onward and using the Simulate upload button to check if they work. --Fernando Correia 10:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank u very much for ur help, but i have still problems with IE 7 and Word2mediawiki plus! It's right that u can perfectly simulate the Upload when u Use the "8" and take the "simulate Upload" button, but when u try to convert a document ( only one pic ) the converter looses the first letter of each name and location of the file. My Question to u: U tried to convert a document with IE7 or only simulate the Upload ?? Thanks very much for ur time u have for my problems... Regards Matthew


 * [[image:example123.png]]


 * I have reopened the request at SourceForge. Please attach there a sample Word document that causes this problem and I'll try to reproduce. Thanks. --Fernando Correia 10:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I am having the same problem with IE7, and also with FireFox3, although IE6 works for me.--80.175.198.221 14:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

'''hey guys. i've got the same problem with ie 7, but i was able to write a vbs script, for the multiupload extension, so the upload of many pictures work fine.if you want to get the script, please write me an email homepage (at) tobiasch.info thx. greeting from germany waimea-mac'''

Version 1.0.0 released
Thanks to testing by Kevin, we have reached a milestone by releasing version 1.0.0. It is the same source code as version 0.7.0.10 Beta. The Subversion repository is organized and this will be the base for future development. --Fernando Correia 11:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Lots of downloads
Interesting... there are about 50 daily downloads of this project. I really didn't expect that much, given that I hardly hear from any user. It seems most people can use it without problems. Or can't even start to figure it out... --Fernando Correia 17:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I counted about 1000/month, quite steady. --GunterS 21:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll bite the bullet...
First, you should kill the above link (and this one) that takes you to 1.0.0-beta as it is too easily confused with 1.0.0 Release... 1.0.0-Beta1


 * The Word2MediaWikiPlus_Installer.doc opened in design mode.
 * I had to use the manual Macro install even after closing design mode. The provided install buttons just would not work.
 * The Hyperlink section refers to "Word2MediaWiki_Demo_and_Macro.doc" which is not the name of any document provided in the current version.
 * The Hyperlink example "And a file reference, which will not work, unless you put it there(c:\temp\Word2MediaWiki_Demo_and_Macro.doc)." is output as: "And a file reference, which will not work, unless you put it [file://C:\Documents_and_Settings\HP_Administrator\Desktop\Word2MediaWikiPlus-1.0.0\../../../../../../Temp/Word2MediaWiki_Demo_and_Macro.doc there] (c:\temp\Word2MediaWiki_Demo_and_Macro.doc). (I renamed the file and placed a copy in c:\temp\. I'm not quite sure what I should see.
 * You should state whether you want people to post problems here or at SourceForge. Average MediaWikians will look here while programmers will look to SourceForge.

This is a REALLY WONDERFUL package!!!
Thank you for creating it and keeping it "alive". --Mensch 16:48, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Great little tool
So far, I am very happy with this tool. The output is consistently successful when I paste it into our wiki. I haven't been able to get the toolbar buttons to stick. I'd really appreciate some help with that because I want to recommend this tool to other users with as few obstacles as possible removed. Thanks! --VanessaV 22:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Word 2007
I had the previous version of W2W working in Word 2007, but I can imagine a lot of the new features will require some redevelopment.

Any word yet on 2007 issues or installations?


 * Just tried it. It installed fine but running it causes some problems.  First off, there is an error message that pops up that says "Unknown version of word detect.  Might run slow." or something like that.  It pops up for every image conversion and a could of times during syntax conversion.  It should really only pop up once.  Also image conversions throw some type of divide by zero error but the script keeps running.  --Cneubauer 17:59, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Workaround for Devide by zero
-On Error GoTo Err_MW_ScaleMax +On Error Resume Next
 * Start editing of the macro "word2mediawikiplus"
 * Go to MW_ScaleMax (around line 5485)
 * Change the following

Workaround for Unknown version
Case 11 MW_WordVersion = 2003 +Case 12 +MW_WordVersion = 2007 Case Else MsgBox "Word Version not recognized. Macro may not function (very probable)."
 * Start editing of the macro "word2mediawikiplus"
 * Go to MW_WordVersion (around line 5969)
 * Change the following

Word 2007 support in SVN repository
Oh I forgot to mention. I committed a bunch of Word 2007 updates to the SVN repo. Check out the Word2007 branch here: http://word2mediawikip.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/word2mediawikip/branches/word2007support/. Here's the changelog: http://word2mediawikip.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/word2mediawikip/branches/word2007support/changelog.txt?view=markup. I'm not really working on it anymore,but it's there if anyone else wants to try it out. --Cneubauer 14:14, 23 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Are there installation instructions for us limited techie guys? --65.201.136.19 20:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.gmayor.com/installing_macro.htm may be of some use. Mwmoron 08:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I tried to import the forms, but they come in as modules instead of forms. I made sure to have the .frx files in the same directory. Any tips on importing the forms? --159.140.254.10 20:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The frm files seem to think they are version 4.0 or something. The problems seems to lie in the "Begin {C62A69F0-16DC-11CE-9E98-00AA00574A4F}" thing.
 * What I did was this:
 * Create three new forms in the project
 * Export those
 * Copy and paste everything from the frm files except The "Begin {C62A69F0-16DC-11CE-9E98-00AA00574A4F}"
 * Save
 * Import the new files
 * If you get problems with FileSystemObject see here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/186118, basically you need to enable Microsoft Scripting Run-time in the Project References. Mwmoron 08:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Fun to watch - expected more
It would be nice, I wish, if there was an option to create categories (at some defined heading level) rather then all heading levels going into one page. That would save a lot of time when wiking large documents.

Long documents
In addition to the comment above, could the macro support conversion of long documents into multiple Mediawiki pages? For example, could the macro interpret a page break or a user-specified heading level as an instruction to create a new page (or subpage of the originating document) with the title of the heading? This would enable users to take lengthy documents like policy manuals, contracts, business rules, etc., and efficiently convert them to wiki pages.

Problems with images
Have been using the tool for a few weeks now, but I can't seem to get it to upload images automatically to our company wiki. Perhaps I am doing something wrong. Does anyone have some step by step guide to setting it up right? Thanks - Alistair

''I had a similar issue, noticed the text on the project box for file upload saying that for Firefox 2.0 expect 1 tab, and ours was set to 2. Put it to 1 and the autoupload worked a treat''

Nibb 13:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

'' I have the exact same problem. I have tried both Firefox 2.0 and IE. I have followed the instructions and have set the Tab steps to filename to the recommended settings. The Macro tries to put the text into every field but the right one. I've tried experimenting with different Tab step numbers for both browsers with no results. Ayone out there know how to make this work?

Thanks,

Minkywiki 22:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)''

Hello, i have problems with the macros to upload the images. If i select "convert to mediawiki" and choice the option "Image upload to wiki" and push the button "Convert!", Microsoft Word 2003 freeze total. If I convert only the images without the option upload to wiki, it works. The macro save the images local in a order. Then I try to upload with the macro "...UploadImages", but it doesn´t work. I think the last problem is that i have mediawiki version 1.13.1. But i don´t know why word freeze. Can somebody help me please??

Auran

Error 4120
Hi and cogratulations to the developers of Word2MediaWikiPlus for the great work. I've been using the Macro for all sorts of word documents and it seems to work fine in most cases.

The problem i have is with some complex documents with text, tables and images. I get the following error:

MediaWikiExtract_Images Html ErrorNo: 4120 Bad Parameter

The result is that all text and tables are converted and copied to the clipboard, but the image conversion process doesn't start.

I thought it was a problem regarding the number of images in a document, or the size of these images. This doesn't seem to be the case since if i copy all of the images (excluding text) of the original ducment that gave the error in a blank word document and start the conversion process everything works and all images are uploaded without errors. Converting first the text and then the images in a separate document takes a lot of time so I was wondering what the problem was.

Can someone help me?

Thank you. Luigi

Bug with final upload of actual wikitext into new document
I've managed to get most of the upload process working a treat, as I replied to one comment above regarding problems autoloading images - we use Firefox and I hadn't noticed that the number of tabs to use was set to 2 (for Internot Exploder I assume). However, whilst the script now magestically rips through the largest of documents ripping and uploading the images, and indeed making the text of the doc into a useable wikitext piece, it leaves the macro suspended at the point of having requested the page title from the wiki - and its a new page so the placeholder requires me to click to edit the new page in the editor. At this point the macro suspends, I never get to a finish message. Is this something new? Using Firefox 2 and Mediawiki 1.10 thanks Nibb 14:03, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

BUG on installation: error 5941
Hello, Using word 2007/Vista, I have the above message error when installing this extension :"member of the collection doesn't exist" (translated from French!). The bug is on the following line : 'copy Word2MediaWikiPlus Application.OrganizerCopy Source:= _ ActiveDocument.Path & "\" & ActiveDocument.Name _ , Destination:=Templates("normal.dot").Path & "\" & "normal.dot", Name _ :="Word2MediaWikiPlus", Object:=wdOrganizerObjectCommandBars

I suspect that it is because I have stored all my word templates not in the original directory for templates( they are in documents/models). Am I right? If yes, how do i have to modify the code?

Thanks for your help

I am also experiencing this error using Word 2003 on XP Pro (in a VM).

Same error, same debug. Any help would be appreciated here. Thanks! Thomsonj 22:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about word 2003, but i suspect that in word 2007 it has more to do with the file name being 'normal.dot' in 2007 there is no 'normal.dot', instead it is 'normal.dotm'.

UPDATE: This error occurs because Word2007 (I don't really know about Word Vista...) places a "normal.dotm" instead of a "normal.dot" so just put the "m" behind the "dot" in your code and the member will be found in the collection!

Numerous Bugs
I just ran this on Word 2007 with a 400+ page document. Here are some bugs:

I'd try fixing some of this stuff but I have no VB skills and no desire to learn them. I might write up some test cases though. --Cneubauer 18:23, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Fix for nested lists
This patch seems to work for nested lists. I didn't try anything terribly complex but the code converts this okay:


 * Item a
 * Item b
 * Item c
 * Item 1
 * Item 2
 * Item A
 * Item B
 * Item 3
 * Item d

In Word 2007, in compatibility mode, bullets seem to show up as wdListOutlineNumbering instead of wdListBullet so will have to change the if line above to

How to use
How do I apply this patch? And will it work for word 2003? Matt 18:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

SourceForge Subversion Access
If anyone has admin/developer access to this project on SourceForge please contact me. I have a bunch of updates and added functionality that I want to check in but no one seems to be around to give me access. --Cneubauer 16:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This has been fixed by now, I assume? Siebrand 09:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I got it a while ago. Haven't had much time to work on it as late but I'm still working on importing the newest localizations slowly but surely.  --Cneubauer 11:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Is there a downloadble current version (including Cneubauer's extensions) which can be used with Word 2000? I tried to use the subversion branch and to import it in my own .dot - but it doesn't compile the VB code...

--- MMohr (MMohr at SysDesign-EDV.de) - 17 February 2009

How to use without our own wiki?
Is there an installation somewhere with the latest version installed, that we can use without having to do the technical MediaWiki installation stuff ourselves? (I'm a wiki user, but don't manage the software/server side of things.) --Chriswaterguy 21:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Office 2007
Can Word2MediaWikiPlus be configured for Word 2007?

yes, you need to copy the macros by hand.

List text coloration bug
Hello, I had a little bug with some text list coloration. When there are some colored words in a list, only those on the first line are well colored. The others become black. I searched a little and made a change in the modWord2MediaWikiPlus module that seems to correct this problem. Here the correction if it can help for other people :

In the MediaWikiConvert_FontColors function I added : pgColor = Empty just after the line : For Each pg In ActiveDocument.Paragraphs

(I'm french, so sorry if I did some english errors)

How to get Word2MediaWikiPlus working with Word 2003 and MediaWiki 1.16.0 and mozilla firefox 3.6.10

 * Make sure that mozilla firefox is set as your default browser. It will never work in Inetrnet Explorer (since the file popup button on the upload page of your wiki can not be triggered by key strokes, but only by mouse clicks)
 * Downloaded the Word2MediaWikiPlus-1.0.0.zip from http://sourceforge.net/projects/word2mediawikip/files/Word2MediaWikiPlus/1.0.0/Word2MediaWikiPlus-1.0.0.zip/download
 * Install the tool by clicking on the 'Install or update Macro'-button in 'Word2MediaWikiPlus_Installer.doc' (and first lowering the security level).
 * The MediaWiki 1.16.0 upload page is designed differently than the upload page for which Word2MediaWikiPlus was designed 3 years ago. Nowadays a popup for the filename occurs and the filename can not be entered manually in the filename box. Furthermore extra links are shown on the upload page. Therefore the following changes need to be made to the VBA code:
 * Use Alt-F11 to go to VBA editor and go to Normal/Modules/modWord2MediaWikiPlus and change
 * Const ImageUploadTabToDescription& = 3
 * to :
 * Const ImageUploadTabToDescription& = 2
 * and one line lower, change
 * Const ImageUploadTabToEnter& = 3
 * to :
 * Const ImageUploadTabToEnter& = 4
 * Use control-F to find the line which contains 'If DebugMode Then Debug.Print FilePathName'. Add one line below the found line with:
 * SendKeys "{Enter}", True: DoEvents: Sleep 500
 * add the following line after the next line which should contain: "SendKeys FilePathName, True: DoEvents: Sleep 100":
 * SendKeys "{Enter}", True: DoEvents: Sleep 100
 * now it should look like this (line numbers are shown in front):

... 127    Const ImageUploadTabToDescription& = 2 'Number of tabs to press to get to the file description field 128    Const ImageUploadTabToEnter& = 4 'Number of tabs to press to get to the file Upload button ... 4704   Next 4705   If DebugMode Then Debug.Print FilePathName 4706   SendKeys "{Enter}", True: DoEvents: Sleep 500 4707   SendKeys FilePathName, True: DoEvents: Sleep 100 4708   SendKeys "{Enter}", True: DoEvents: Sleep 100 4709   For i = 1 To ImageUploadTabToDescription ...
 * Close the VBA editor. Make sure the changes are saved to the normal.dot file, when you get a popup later on with the text "The file Normal.dot already exists. Do you want to replace the existing file?". This popup will occur when you close all word and outlook windows (if you use the word editor in outlook).

URL wiki production system: http://yourwiki/index.php?titel= Tab steps to filename (browser): 4
 * Open the word doc you want to convert.
 * Click on the "Configure Word2MediaWikiPlus" icon in your toolbar, and change the following settings:
 * Click on OK, the simulate upload won't work will give an error because the dummy file name does not exists. However this error does not cause any further problems.
 * Click on the "Convert to wiki" button.
 * Enter the article name under which you want to store this word document.
 * Tick under target wiki on "Production System"
 * Tick under Image handling: Image extraction and Image upload to wiki
 * Click on the Convert button and wait a few minutes for the macro is ready (and click a few the time OK)
 * Go to Firefox, click on edit and Paste the wiki code from the clipboard and save the new wiki page.
 * You should now see the converted page + the images + tables, etc.

--Ruut 16:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Word 2007 - Fixed Version
Hey guys,

I mailed Fernando Acorreia, but he did't answered until now.

For my use I fixed the Word2MediaWikiPlus with the patches from http://word2mediawikip.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/word2mediawikip/branches/word2007support/ and rewrite the install documentation, so that it works and fits to Word 2007. Because I want to give the fixed software to other users, like license told, I opened this new topic. I thought directly editing the Project-Page isn't the right way? So here's a zip-archive with the files including licenses, and the other stuff for the fixed VBA-Converter for Word 2007.

Okay, acutally I don't have the permission to upload...will this do in four day or if somebody confirms me.

Two errors I fixed are:
 * frm's with fixes could not be imported from the 1.0.1 --> create a working package
 * BUG on installation: error 5941 --> use vba-variables instead of concatenate the path

I named it 1.0.2. because of error corrections and don't mixing it up with 1.0.1 with is the word2mediawikip/branches/word2007support-Version.

Greetz --Boardcomputer 09:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Uploaded it to Rapidshare https://rapidshare.com/files/1654132623/Word2MediaWikiPlus_Word2007Support_1.0.2.zip

--Boardcomputer 20:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)