Engineering Community Team/Meetings/2013-12-10

Meeting started by qgil at 17:01:47 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary
 Introduction (qgil, 17:01:54)  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-12-10 (qgil, 17:04:31)

 Google Code-in (qgil, 17:05:30)  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In (qgil, 17:05:38)  (qgil, 17:08:17)

 FOSS Outreach Program for Women (qgil, 17:19:37)  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women/Round_7 (qgil, 17:19:57)</li> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Monteirobrena/OPW (qgil, 17:26:56)</li> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/MediaWiki.org_Main_Page_tweaks (monteirobrena, 17:28:32)</li></ol>

</li> Engineering Community team goals for January - March 2014 (qgil, 17:37:02)  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2013-14_Goals#Engineering_Community (qgil, 17:37:15)</li> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#January_to_March_2014 (qgil, 17:38:26)</li> &lt;andre__&gt; my personal plans so far are on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list#Plans_for_Q1.2F2014 (qgil, 17:40:17)</li> My plans will be: regular tasks (blog posts, reports, tech news) + continue to try to recruit people for tech news + devtools project, in a nutshell (guillom, 17:40:47)</li> ACTION: andre__ and guillom to detail steps to reach &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; in their personal plans. (qgil, 17:43:18)</li> ACTION: andre__ to bring the discussion about the best way to &quot;report once, publish anywhere&quot; in our next ECT weekly meeting. (qgil, 17:44:53)</li> https://korma.wmflabs.org doesn't seem to load right now, hm (qgil, 17:52:54)</li> http://korma.wmflabs.org/ (qgil, 17:54:48)</li> ACTION: EC team members to fill their sections under https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#January_to_March_2014 by next Tuesday (qgil, 17:59:19)</li></ol> </li></ol>

Meeting ended at 18:00:15 UTC (full logs).

Action items

 * 1) andre__ and guillom to detail steps to reach &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; in their personal plans.
 * 2) andre__ to bring the discussion about the best way to &quot;report once, publish anywhere&quot; in our next ECT weekly meeting.
 * 3) EC team members to fill their sections under https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#January_to_March_2014 by next Tuesday

Action items, by person

 * 1) andre__
 * 2) andre__ and guillom to detail steps to reach &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; in their personal plans.
 * 3) andre__ to bring the discussion about the best way to &quot;report once, publish anywhere&quot; in our next ECT weekly meeting.
 * 4) guillom
 * 5) andre__ and guillom to detail steps to reach &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; in their personal plans.

People present (lines said)

 * 1) qgil (105)
 * 2) guillom (27)
 * 3) andre__ (23)
 * 4) monteirobrena (11)
 * 5) meetbot-wm (2)

Full log
17:01:47 &lt;qgil&gt; #startmeeting 17:01:47 &lt;meetbot-wm&gt; Meeting started Tue Dec 10 17:01:47 2013 UTC. The chair is qgil. Information about MeetBot at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/46377. 17:01:47 &lt;meetbot-wm&gt; Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:54 &lt;qgil&gt; #topic Introduction 17:02:01 &lt;qgil&gt; Hello! Welcome to our monthly Engineering Community team meeting. 17:02:20 &lt;qgil&gt; Some introductions: the team is formed by andre__, guillom , sumanah (enjoying her sabbatical atm) , and myself: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team 17:02:43 &lt;qgil&gt; Any attendees not-idling for this meeting? Sa hi! 17:02:45 &lt;qgil&gt; say 17:03:01 &lt;guillom&gt; hi! 17:03:14 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; hi 17:03:35 &lt;qgil&gt; hi monteirobrena ! First time we &quot;meet&quot;. We will tal about OPW. 17:03:47 &lt;qgil&gt; gosh: t a l k 17:04:18 &lt;qgil&gt; Anyway, new participants please wave when you read this line. Let's continue. 17:04:25 &lt;qgil&gt; The schedule of the meeting can be found at 17:04:31 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings#2013-12-10 17:04:55 &lt;qgil&gt; (I'm still not sure whether URLs without the #link comand are also processed as URLs... 17:05:03 &lt;qgil&gt; Watch that wiki page to get notified about our the various incarnations of our weekly team meeting. :) 17:05:12 &lt;qgil&gt; You can propose any topics. You can ask any questions. You can se the MeetBot commands specified at https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot to improve the meeting notes. 17:05:23 &lt;qgil&gt; Alright, first topic: 17:05:30 &lt;qgil&gt; #topic Google Code-in 17:05:38 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In 17:05:46 &lt;qgil&gt; So far so good! 17:06:19 &lt;qgil&gt; From the point of view of the org admins, I think andre__ and me agree that the toughest point has been passed 17:06:25 &lt;qgil&gt; successfully 17:06:25 &lt;andre__&gt; yes 17:07:01 &lt;qgil&gt; GCI still requires work hunting for more tasks, but we are finding &quot;mines&quot;where we can dig multiple tasks, clones. 17:07:49 &lt;qgil&gt; Also, the average quality of the contributions is somewhat improving since &quot;good&quot;students tend to repeat, while the ones that have more dificulties tend to either go elsewhere or try with different tasks, fitting better with thir skills. 17:08:17 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Google_Code-In#mediaviewer/File:Wikimedia%20at%20Google%20Code-in%202013.png/0 17:08:37 &lt;qgil&gt; That is a nice graphic, and it took a lot of effort to get thse lines up. 17:09:03 &lt;qgil&gt; Th good news is, though, that we don't need to keep those trends in terms of productivity 17:09:40 &lt;qgil&gt; In fact it would be ok to relax the rythm a bit in exchange of getting new tasks more complex / challenging for the students that can crunch simpler tasks in a couple of hours. 17:10:07 &lt;qgil&gt; What really matters is to keep the buffer of +30 tasks open. 17:10:32 &lt;qgil&gt; while offering different types of tasks e.g. not 50% being clones of a single type of task 17:10:58 &lt;andre__&gt; Finding good and interesting tasks and mentors, yeah. :) 17:11:18 &lt;qgil&gt; I still wish we would et a more distributed involvement from mentors... Some are working A LOT (including external contributors, not official GCI mentors, reviewing patches and bug reports) 17:11:57 &lt;qgil&gt; While others still have to publish 1-5 tasks, and I'm not even succeeding at getting an email reply from them (not that I have insisted) :) 17:12:21 &lt;andre__&gt; :-/ 17:12:35 &lt;andre__&gt; if you need a grumpy guy nagging, I volunteer :) 17:12:44 &lt;qgil&gt; Well, I guess this is a good summary of the current situation. In the next IRC meeting GCI will be completed, and we will be hopefully still alive to explain it. ;) 17:12:58 &lt;andre__&gt; hehe 17:13:15 &lt;qgil&gt; nah andre__ I think your contribution in the past... 5 weeks has been ESSENTIAL 17:13:21 &lt;qgil&gt; I couldn't have done it alone 17:13:33 &lt;andre__&gt; same to you. Big thanks! 17:13:50 &lt;qgil&gt; and now things are more manegeable, and it is good that you con put your focus i other tasks, while still helping occasinally as you do 17:13:58 &lt;qgil&gt; Ok, any questions or comments? 17:14:57 &lt;guillom&gt; We'll probably touch on this later, but I think that GCI has been weighing on other tasks, like the devtools project, whose schedule may be slightly delayed due to the work that has needed to be done on GCI 17:15:18 &lt;guillom&gt; I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing :) 17:15:42 &lt;guillom&gt; But I think we need to acknowledge it 17:15:51 &lt;andre__&gt; It's probably not only GCI but to some extend also other stuff I needed to work on, plus to a small extend also my lazyness :-/ 17:16:14 &lt;andre__&gt; But we have an initial draft for a devtools discussion kickoff now, that we need to agree on and then we can go public. 17:16:33 &lt;guillom&gt; agreed; I'm just saying, GCI had an impact on that project and other task 17:16:37 &lt;guillom&gt; tasks 17:16:56 &lt;qgil&gt; Yes, true. Then again ECT was asked to take on the Tools task when we had already decided to dive into GCI, and it came almost out of the blue (not the discussion on Project Management Tools, but the request to ECT to facilitate it and get actual results from it) 17:17:13 &lt;guillom&gt; qgil: agreed 17:17:17 &lt;andre__&gt; yepp 17:17:42 &lt;guillom&gt; I just wanted to point it out in case people ask :) 17:17:48 &lt;qgil&gt; Not a big deal: in the worst case scenario the Tools discussion can wait a couple of weeks while GCI has very hardcoded deadlines, and very measurable results. 17:17:56 &lt;qgil&gt; yes, god point guillom 17:18:00 &lt;qgil&gt; good 17:18:20 &lt;guillom&gt; GCI was underway, and not something we could drop or delay 17:18:28 &lt;qgil&gt; Any othr comments before moving to the next opic? 17:18:49 &lt;qgil&gt; (what is wrong wiith my keyboard?) I'll type slower 17:18:54 &lt;qgil&gt; h 17:18:59 &lt;qgil&gt; OH! :) 17:19:21 &lt;qgil&gt; alright 17:19:37 &lt;qgil&gt; #topic FOSS Outreach Program for Women 17:19:57 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women/Round_7 17:20:28 &lt;andre__&gt; Yay! 17:20:35 &lt;qgil&gt; The good news is that we selected 6 participants, and I believe we have six good projects with 6 strong teams. 17:20:49 &lt;qgil&gt; monteirobrena among them. Hi! 17:21:00 &lt;andre__&gt; welcome &amp; congrats! 17:21:14 &lt;guillom&gt; welcome monteirobrena! 17:21:37 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; thank you 17:21:45 &lt;qgil&gt; monteirobrena, I guess the fact tat you are here means... that you are already following wikitechl-l? 17:22:07 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; yes 17:22:27 &lt;qgil&gt; (I could have sent an invitation for this meeting to OPW and GCI mentors and participants, hm) 17:23:06 &lt;qgil&gt; monteirobrena, first impressions about the community? Do you want to pitch your project? Sorry for not warning you in advance! :) 17:24:01 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; I'm getting used to the way of communication 17:24:35 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; I never used IRC before 17:24:48 &lt;andre__&gt; you mean IRC, talk pages, mailing lists, and the dozens of other things? :P 17:25:06 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; yes yes 17:25:20 &lt;qgil&gt; no worries, we have all been there once 17:25:45 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; So the project is about MediaWiki Homepage Redesign 17:26:24 &lt;guillom&gt; Oh, neat 17:26:44 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; we already have some discussion about the new layout 17:26:56 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Monteirobrena/OPW 17:27:21 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; and the idea is reconstruct it 17:27:34 &lt;andre__&gt; Bringing the design into our current times? That will be interesting. 17:28:22 &lt;qgil&gt; ... something that monteirobrena is not aware yet is that a couple of veteran contributors already contacted me concerned about this project and the potential trouble the OPW intern was heading to... :) 17:28:32 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/MediaWiki.org_Main_Page_tweaks 17:29:10 &lt;qgil&gt; The scope is to propose a redesign of the homepage that someone could copy&amp;paste to the current home page 17:29:48 &lt;qgil&gt; Heather is the mentor for UX, and I will be helping monteirobrena in her interactions with the community 17:30:25 &lt;qgil&gt; I'm looking forward to see how a beautiful proposal emerges! 17:31:04 &lt;qgil&gt; If we get the new home actually changed or not during the OPW, that is another thing, and itdepends on community consensus. No pressure, really! 17:31:21 &lt;guillom&gt; Just a quick note (you probably know this already) that a trial and error approach works best with the community; i.e. draft a proposal, get feedback, use feedback to make another proposal, etc. 17:31:36 &lt;guillom&gt; iterative improvement using community feedback is the best way to make changes 17:33:04 &lt;monteirobrena&gt; guillom: absolutely #agreed 17:33:20 &lt;qgil&gt; Yes, the right process will be the first item I will discuss with monteirobrena, and you can expect an email from her to wikitech-l soon. 17:33:40 &lt;qgil&gt; Ok, any other questions/comments about OPW? 17:34:51 &lt;qgil&gt; PS: I'm a bit late on this, blaming GCI and other tasks here and there. I'm scheduling meetings with all the teams hopefully this week, although no teams have any blockers 17:35:09 &lt;qgil&gt; By the way, the official sttart of the program is... TODAY! 17:35:43 &lt;qgil&gt; Comments? 17:36:28 &lt;qgil&gt; (I should have typed more &quot;#info&quot;...) 17:36:42 &lt;andre__&gt; I didn't know it's already today. Nice, and good to know. 17:37:02 &lt;qgil&gt; #topic Engineering Community team goals for January - March 2014 17:37:15 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2013-14_Goals#Engineering_Community 17:37:47 &lt;qgil&gt; This link above defines the goals that the ECT has agreed with &quot;Wikimedia&quot; 17:37:59 &lt;qgil&gt; At least with the Wikimedia Foundation directors 17:38:03 &lt;qgil&gt; and... 17:38:26 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#January_to_March_2014 17:38:54 &lt;qgil&gt; Shows how each f us plans to achieve those goals and other smaller tasks in the next quarter. 17:39:02 &lt;qgil&gt; The section is empty, hm... :) 17:39:15 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, andre__, thoughts? 17:39:39 &lt;guillom&gt; Heh, well, I guess we ought to fill that out, yes :) 17:39:40 &lt;andre__&gt; my personal plans so far are on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list#Plans_for_Q1.2F2014 17:40:17 &lt;qgil&gt; #info &lt;andre__&gt; my personal plans so far are on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list#Plans_for_Q1.2F2014 17:40:24 &lt;andre__&gt; ah yeah 17:40:31 &lt;guillom&gt; My plans will be: regular tasks (blog posts, reports, tech news) + continue to try to recruit people for tech news + devtools project, in a nutshell 17:40:41 &lt;guillom&gt; hmm 17:40:47 &lt;guillom&gt; #info My plans will be: regular tasks (blog posts, reports, tech news) + continue to try to recruit people for tech news + devtools project, in a nutshell 17:40:52 &lt;guillom&gt; Is this how it works? 17:41:06 &lt;qgil&gt; Not that easy, I would say... ;) 17:41:35 &lt;qgil&gt; &quot;Continue evaluation of Project management / issue tracking tools.&quot; is not the same as &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; 17:41:52 &lt;andre__&gt; yes, need to break down things into substeps 17:42:03 &lt;guillom&gt; I think part of the requirements gathering will overflow into January, but the rest of the schedule looks good 17:42:20 &lt;qgil&gt; (the first sentence comes from Andre's plans, the second from the official ECT goals, and I can't even quote guillom, who has also responsibilities over this task. 17:43:10 &lt;andre__&gt; Currently I have three pages where I'm expected to put plans. And one day I will learn how to use transclusion in MediaWiki to not always fail in copy&amp;pasting. 17:43:18 &lt;qgil&gt; #action andre__ and guillom to detail steps to reach &quot;Project management tools: plan agreed and started&quot; in their personal plans. 17:43:32 &lt;guillom&gt; agreed 17:44:34 &lt;andre__&gt; alright 17:44:53 &lt;qgil&gt; #action andre__ to bring the discussion about the best way to &quot;report once, publish anywhere&quot; in our next ECT weekly meeting. 17:45:16 &lt;guillom&gt; What is this about? 17:45:29 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, any specific goals ref Tech News consolidation, or Tech Ambassadors? 17:46:02 &lt;guillom&gt; My goal is not to be needed for Tech news; which doesn't mean I won't continue to work on it, just that I shouldn't be necessary 17:46:10 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, andre__ has been complaining (and we share the feeling) that reporting in many places is not optimal. Letś try to improve the siatuation, and letś talk about this next week. 17:46:22 &lt;andre__&gt; I started my planning on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Task_list, then https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#Quarterly_goals was added, lately also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Release_and_QA_Team#Dec-Feb_Goals 17:46:43 &lt;guillom&gt; Ah, ok; specificity helps me understand :) 17:46:47 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, is that goal meant to be completed by the end of March? 17:47:38 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, the one abot Tech News, I mean. 17:48:04 &lt;guillom&gt; qgil: no; it's not something I have control over. It's something I want, but unfortunately I don't have a magic hat out of which I can pull up interested volunteers to help 17:48:13 &lt;guillom&gt; :) 17:48:34 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, agreed, but then it would be good to define an intermediate goal that you can influence by the end of March 17:48:52 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, please think about this, and let's discuss next Monday, ok? 17:49:22 &lt;qgil&gt; Same for Tech Ambassadors, I think we all agree that we need to &quot;improve&quot; but it is unclear what is the goal and what is the next step to reach there 17:49:27 &lt;guillom&gt; ok, I'll continue to think about it; I'd love to hear suggestions about this, if you have any 17:50:29 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, yes, the three of us (additional help is also welcome) need to squeeze our brains defining these reachable, measurable goals 17:50:43 &lt;qgil&gt; guillom, at least the discussion about Tech News last week at wikitech-l was useful 17:50:49 &lt;qgil&gt; Anyway, about my own goals... 17:51:18 &lt;qgil&gt; &quot;We innovate in Outreach Program for Women mentorship, and include new areas of engineering&quot; is about completing OPW Round 7. No secrets. 17:52:00 &lt;qgil&gt; &quot;We use a developer/community metrics dashboard to understand what's been languishing the longest, and improve the patch process&quot; means that I need to get back to work closer with Bitergia. W are late, currently, and we still don't have a dashboard we would consider satisfactory 17:52:54 &lt;qgil&gt; #link https://korma.wmflabs.org doesn't seem to load right now, hm 17:53:30 &lt;qgil&gt; &quot;We systematically reach out to FLOSS projects we rely on[1]&quot; Sumana started this, and I hope Sumana can continue. To be discussed. 17:54:17 &lt;qgil&gt; I will have to help in a way or another while preparing Erik's session at FOSDEM about &quot;The Wikipedia stack&quot;, and this will be a goal that I will add to my list 17:54:21 &lt;andre__&gt; wmflabs requires http:// 17:54:24 &lt;andre__&gt; not https:// 17:54:48 &lt;qgil&gt; #link http://korma.wmflabs.org/ 17:54:57 &lt;qgil&gt; makes... sense........ ;) 17:56:11 &lt;qgil&gt; &quot;Architecture process and queue of Requests for comment clean.&quot; this is a task for the technical writer that... someone (could be me) will mentor and help pushing. 17:57:02 &lt;qgil&gt; Another goals in my list will include overseeing Facebook Open Academy and probably preparing the new rounds of GSoC / OPW 17:57:41 &lt;qgil&gt; Another busy quarter, although in general I hope to be a lot less busy than this one. 17:58:04 &lt;qgil&gt; 3 minutes to go... 17:58:19 &lt;qgil&gt; Sorry for not leaving more time for comments/questions. Any? 17:58:50 &lt;guillom&gt; nothing from me 17:59:19 &lt;qgil&gt; #action EC team members to fill their sections under https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team#January_to_March_2014 by next Tuesday 17:59:39 &lt;qgil&gt; andre__, ? 17:59:47 &lt;andre__&gt; nothing else, no :) 18:00:13 &lt;qgil&gt; Alright. Thank you everybody! The meeting minutes will be copied to a wiki page. 18:00:15 &lt;qgil&gt; #endmeeting

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