Topic on VisualEditor/Feedback

Wittylama (talkcontribs)

Perhaps this question is too broad for this page, but I would like to know if there is plans for an interactive "onboarding" process for first-time users of the Visual Editor?
Currently, when you first hit "edit" in the visual editor, there is a popup box that says welcome, and some info about the VE. After you dismiss that, you're on your own. I recently came across this blogpost which explains the the onboarding process for Duolingo, it also reminded me of the similar, and very very good, onboarding process I experienced when using the new OpenStreetMap editor for the first time. Both seamlessly took me through a little training exercise before letting me loose on the real project.

So... I know it's not in the scope of the VE team's work to improve the software, but is there plans to create a seamless, interactive (i.e. not "go read the documentation first then come back and try again") onboarding system for the Visual Editor - that a first-time editor is presented with? There are obvious questions to answer about "would this interfere with the 'immediate satisfaction of seeing your changes' that gets many anon's to start editing in the first place?" and "would this be presented to existing users who are using the VE for the first time, or only to newly registered users?". But, as a general idea, is this on the drawing board?

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Hi Liam, so I think that what you want is something like this. I'd +1 your idea so badly. Unfortunately, as you can see, there's code writing involved (not exactly my "piatto forte" ;) ) and there may be blockers behind the initiative (like this one) on which I have no control either. Maybe James will come up with an even better idea!

Fuzheado (talkcontribs)

I'd also look at what Jack Herrick at WikiHow has done in this regard, as they did lots of testing and tweaking to find out what the first edit experience would be like for WikiHow. He's done Wikimania talks about this in the past, but I'm sure he'd be happy to share this verbally too.

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Thanks, Andrew!

Elitre (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Actually, I just learned that exists :)

Wittylama (talkcontribs)

Yes, that is a good idea! I realised after my initial suggestion that the two distinct user-groups (new wikimedians vs. existing Wikimedians using the VE for the first time) have quite different needs... The former group would probably benefit most from a guided tour that focused more on the "rules of wikipedia" but the latter group would benefit most from a technical tour specifically designed to highlight the "new ways to do x, y and z". Not only are these different things, these require different wording. e.g. for a guided tour about external links. We would want to tell:

  • Newbie editors about what kinds of links are appropriate (referring to "reliable source" policies).
  • Existing editors to place the text they want linked first and thento highlight those words and click the "link" icon - not the other way around which they are used to.
Atlasowa (talkcontribs)

Hi, i made a similar proposal some time ago, aimed specifically at giving references with VisualEditor:

icon to insert reference: The 3rd one is obvious and preferred! Not the brick factory icon (first)!
The ref icon (insert reference). It is very unintuitive. This has been pointed out over and over and over again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Icons_are_incomprehensible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#Reference_Issues:_Omnibus_Edition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#Mystery_meat_navigation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#Attempting_to_add_a_reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#User_experience
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_07#Refs_and_templates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_8#Icons_are_incomprehensible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_12#Editing_a_footnote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Toolbar#Icon_for_Reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2014_1#The_new_reference_dialogue
There is even a bugreport for the ref icon, which was "provisionally closed". And we're still stuck with the incomprehensible brick factory icon, which some WMF designers seem to prefer. I think the "ref [1]" is a lot better to understand. And yes, make [1] blue if this gets us better references, damn the design guidelines! But, who decides this?
How about this: Let's make a survey with 3 alternatives. Or not really a survey, rather a banner with user test, for potential new users, aka readers and editors. Show them the editbar full of icons (including the 3 ref icon options) and ask them to insert a reference, count which icon they click. Bonus: This test/survey would also work as a tutorial / invitation to edit (some time, not immediately) / participation tool / VE announcement. Win-win? (en:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_117#Conduct_a_new_.22new_editors.22_test_of_VE)

The proposal was pretty much shot down by whatamidoing (WMF).

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talkcontribs)

Wittylama, there's a discussion in e-mail on the education list that might interest you. Amir says that there are some educational materials in Hebrew, but I'm not sure that's what you want. Also, I have a fuzzy recollection that GettingStarted (or a similar program) might have created a guided tour using VisualEditor, for use at projects where VisualEditor is available by default. However, I don't remember what happened to it, or exactly who was working on it, which I'm afraid won't be very helpful to you.

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