Justin Bieber article not complete?

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Any solution of the feedback problem that involves the Talk Page is *not* a solution. Usually people don't know about that page, and it is very difficult to edit it. (Yes, it is!) I like the Polish Wikipedia comment function. But this has little to do with this feedback function. Maybe it would be good to explain to people how to rate; that some typos don't mean that the article cannot have five stars.

Ziko08:10, 9 July 2011
Any solution of the feedback problem that involves the Talk Page is *not* a solution. Usually people don't know about that page, and it is very difficult to edit it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! So wrong in fact I said it three times. The talk page is EXACTLY the place for constructive article feedback. If people don't know about it, that needs to be fixed. It it is too difficult to edit, that should also be fixed.

I bolded constructive, because any other feedback is useless.

Timl2k413:02, 9 July 2011

If you have a "feedbacktool" that allows people to leave a comment in a free text field on the article you can display the feedback on the talkpage.

Wasbeer14:43, 9 July 2011

That's pretty close to what I was thinking, the question is how to display the feedback and filter out garbage. Perhaps more seasoned Wikipedians could pick out specific feedback items and move them to the main discussion. Or at the very least take the feedback into account when trying to improve the article, without having to work off of vague ratings like the AFT would produce.

Timl2k417:41, 9 July 2011

Yes, that's what the Polish have. And it works; the comments are easy to fill in and are sent to a wiki page where experienced Wikipedians look at it. But our usual talk pages - they don't work. :-)

Ziko18:00, 9 July 2011
 

I like this too. Asking for constructive criticism of the article is immensely better than mindless rating.

Bensin06:27, 13 July 2011
 
 
Edited by author.
Last edit: 11:42, 10 July 2011

Yeh, I like it too! As mentioned here that feature (pl:MediaWiki:Wikibugs.js) is also in use on Spanish and Portuguese Wikipedias, and was already proposed on English Wikipedia. See:

Helder19:02, 9 July 2011

OK, is there anyone opposed to having a "feedbacktool" that allows people to leave a comment in a free text field on the article and displaying the feedback on the talkpage?

I would love to get more opinions on this, negative or positive. I honestly think this may be a good solution, and an improvement over the current situation.

Wasbeer22:16, 9 July 2011

This is the direction I have wanted this feature to go since its inception. However, the underlying technology required to make this feasible remains to be built. As such, we have not included it in the roadmap.

There may be intermediate steps that can be taken, but there hasn't been a great deal of hard thinking about it. A primary concern is one of spammy-ness: if anyone can leave a suggestion at any time, we'll start getting crap data almost instantly.

One way to gate this information flood is to ask for suggestions after the user has rated the article, and within a set context.

For example, if a reader rates an article's completeness low - say, a value of 2 - then we can ask them: "We see you have given this article a poor rating for completeness. What do you think could be done to make the article more complete?" and then give them a list of suggestions - checkboxes, say:

  • The article needs more photographs
  • The article needs more references
  • The article needs to be brought up to date with current events
  • etc.

And they could then enter a text comment after, if need be. This data would then be tallied and thrown into a "to do" list for the article, that could be actionable by editors.

The overall assumption that follows "if people want to make suggestions, they should use the talk page" is an untenable one. Readers simply will not do this because the editing interface in general and talk pages in specific is frankly terrible verging on the unholy.

One of the largest problems facing the continued existence of Wikipedia (and its sister projects) is the simply terrifying learning curve that new users are required to climb for even the most minor of interactions. Reducing this complexity even a little bit will help to offset the harshness when and if the user ultimately decides to engage in a more meaningful way.

Jorm (WMF)00:05, 10 July 2011

Among us are very smart people with great programming skills. You mentioned Catrope, I was referring to Krinkle earlier.

I understand that it is easier to include stuff in the roadmap when the underlying technology has been built already, but because we all agree this is the best way forward it may be a good idea to ask those people if they are willing to make this possible.

Of course they are volunteers (even if they get paid to do stuff like this they still have the option to decline the request), but we may be able to convince them to build the underlying technology in a short timespan if we offer them huge amounts of stroopwafels.

It would be unfair to ask them to do it in just 2 days, but if we postpone the full deployment a little bit and have a quick brainstorming session about how and when to ask for text comments I think it is possible to achieve this goal in an acceptable timeframe. Once the underlying technology is built we can make changes to how and when to ask for textcomments and compare the results.

I think this is a very important step and I am quite sure this will greatly improve the AFT. How do you feel about it? Is this acceptable to all parties?

Wasbeer01:17, 10 July 2011

The kind of technology we are talking about will take much longer than a couple of days to develop, and will be primarily back-end in nature.

This is not something that is worth postponing the deployment for.

Jorm (WMF)01:42, 10 July 2011

Well, I think you mean something that is much more complicated than what I have in mind.

I think you are thinking about something with a backend like File:Article feedback extended review - Review list.svg. That would be a lot of work of course.

I was thinking about just introducing a simple textbox where people could leave a comment, press a button, and the comment would be added to the bottom of the talkpage like so:


==Feedback by ~~~~==

This article is basically OK but I'm afraid source X is given undue weight. ~~~~


What is your opinion on that?

Wasbeer03:07, 10 July 2011
 
 
 
 
 
StickyNotesVersion4AfterClick.png

Another approach to getting data about a page is proposed on w:en:Wikipedia:Sticky notes. See the image on the right.

Helder20:19, 20 July 2011