Template talk:Languages

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[edit] Placement

This template seems to be usually placed at the bottom of articles. Shouldn't it rather go up top? --Swift 18:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I personally think it is better at the bottom. In theory once you are on a page for a particular language, the links will take you to other pages in that language, so the 'other languages' block does not need to be given as much prominence as you might think. --HappyDog 01:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I mean no offense, but I fear that even the theoretical premise was lacking. My rationale was that the benefit of seeing right away in which languages the page was in, outweighed the space that the banner takes up (which would be the only reason to move it down).
Say, a person from Georgia may have Russian as a second language and German as a third, but isn't good at English at all. Browsing the "/de" version, this person might want to reference the Russian version where available. This person would benefit from having the available languages displayed at the top. --Swift 17:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
True, but I would estimate that this situation will occur a lot less frequently than someone wanting to view the site in their language and only their language. I find it quite intrusive to have it at the top, particularly as there is already the PD notice (in the help: namespace) or quite commonly some other infobox at the top. I believe it works better at the bottom along with the category links. To be honest, once someone knows where the links are it makes little difference, so long as we are consistent.
The ideal answer, I guess, is to have the inter-language links in the sidebar, like on Wikipedia, but that is only possible if we move to separate language domains - something which is yet to be discussed. Please see Project:Current issues#Languages for some more discussion of this. --HappyDog 18:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Indeed the scenario won't be very common, but I disagree that the few-lines-high (unless there is a very large number of translated versions) is intrusive. As for the Help namespace, the template is included in the PD notice, making it conveniently located at the top.
Ideal solutions aside, in the meantime I see it as a small sacrifice of space to put the template at the top of the page. --Swift 08:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Hm, I see no problem to use the template in two different ways (top or bottom) dependent on the kind, style and length of pages (so I would say: Put it where you think it's best, but don't constitute a hard "rule" on its positioning).
But please note: In general, the main contents of this site are, will be and will stay in English. Translations are mainly worked out for some introductory pages, for some parts of the PD help and for some sporadic other pages. I'm pretty sure that the proportion English/other languages won't change noteworthy in the foreseeable future (have a look at the software related stuff on Meta if you like; and we'll transfer all those pages sometime). Of course, our (or my) aim is, that we are able to provide at least the PD Help as an accurate, up-to-date set of pages for download or together with the distribution in as many languages as possible. But the rest ...?
So, this template can not be seen as a essential/substantial part of navigation yet (only within the main introduction perhaps). And please note: Most of the non-English pages are actually outdated, or incomplete. Most of them only cover a small part of a bigger set of pages. At the moment only French and German are somewhat close to English, but if you like to read the important and really up-to-date download or upgrade information (relevant when a new version of MW is released), you have to switch to English again. --:Bdk: 01:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Bdk - is your view that the project should only be in English and that other languages should, in general, be discouraged, or that the project is currently mainly in English and that ultimately (in an ideal world) most of the site will be multi-lingual, but that you can't see that happening any time soon? --HappyDog 02:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
The last view, of course. I would really like to have the general introduction - including the latest and basic information on download and installation - in many, many languages, but to be honest, I see little sense in sporadic and unmaintained pages in random languages here and there (this was one reason for Template:Outdated). If someone wants to translate a page, yes, he's always welcome. But because of what I've said above, the inter-language navigation (at the moment and for the near future) actually is of limited usefulness and not an essential part of the site's navigation in a whole, and therefore should not occupy optically relevant parts (at the top) especially of the "reference" pages in English. Commonly there's an old and good rule for that: First write/translate good content, and then add a language template, and then, don't forget to maintain these pages ;-)
btw: If MediaWiki.org's world would be ideal, my belief is, that we would have subdomains like fr.mediawiki.org sometime - that is desirable in the long run, but far from now.
Heh, and if you look up the history e.g. of this (deleted) template you could see, that in fact I was the one who made the first language templates on this site *g* (the layout is still close to the original). Really, I'm not opposed to non-English content. But I can't conceal that I'm somewhat pragmatical regarding multilingual _and_ good software documentation. Better "good/in-depth and in English" than "bad/skin-deep and in many languages" content. --:Bdk: 05:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be placed in the right place (like in Wikipedia when it uses , i.e. [[es:portada]] --82.159.136.238 08:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
And that is not possible in case of the different languages of wikipedia are different installations of MediaWiki. And than it is an Interwiki Link that is used for a mod. --The0bone 13:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
In no way was I requesting a "hard rule" for anything. Most of the pages which use the template are protected and so simple editors cannot make any changes without raising their issues with admins. My initial comment was a humble attempt at that.
Whether the content should be mainly in English or not, and whether the template is a "substantial" part of navigation or not, it may be an aid for those with little grasp of the English language. Should it not be let be all that it can be? As for the content of the translated being out-dated; well, "hiding" those translated versions doesn't really help solve that problem, now does it? --Swift 08:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Installation

I can't seem to find anywhere on this site that explains the installation of the template. What I tried was: go to the article page (actually the "template" page) and hit edit, copy the text, go to my wiki, make a new template page of the same name, paste, and save. Sadly, the page renders wrong.
Link to my page
Not to mention i don't have the lovely icon either. This is all the back up plan, in any case, what i *really* want is to be able to have the sidebar show what languages the page is available in, down there to the left, just like Wikipedia. Except I can't find any information on how to do that. What am i missing? Where do I look?
Davecotter 00:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

  • There is no explanation because this template is provided to help us administer this site, rather than as an example for other people to use. That said, feel free to use it (and perhaps this response will give the appropriate explanation...) :-)
  • The template uses the ParserFunctions extension. You will need to download and install the extension to get it to work. You may also need to upgrade your version of MediaWiki if it is too old.
  • To use the image in the template, you need to add it to your wiki. Click on the icon to get to it's image page and save/upload it from there.
  • Adding the links in the sidebar requires (as far as I know) separate wikis for each language. However, there may be some kind of workaround for that that I am unaware of.
Hope that helps. --HappyDog 16:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I was able to install the parser functions and the image, and the template. eg: Sandbox. However, after adding a Sandbox/ja version of my sandbox page, it did not show up in the list of translated links. How do I get them to show up? I even tried ?action=purge, to no avail.
I was unable to view the page source without creating an account and logging in, but my guess is that you did not include the name of the page when including the template. I have added instructions to the template, so hopefully its usage should be clearer now. --HappyDog 23:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template Error - action required

Hi, the Template did not work on the Help Page!!! --The0bone 10:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I am aware of this. It is due to a bug in the ParserFunctions extension which is logged as bugzilla:8199. If anyone has any suggestions for working round the bug, please comment at Template talk:Languages/Lang. Cheers --HappyDog 16:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Breton translation

  • Hi, could anybody add Breton language to the Language template? Main page is fully translated now. Thanks. Fulup 16:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Done, the Breton language has been added. Also, you may consider to translate/update the news section in Breton language. :) --Shinjiman 17:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Please only update the news page if you plan to keep it up to date! It is better to have up-to-date news in English than outdated news in the native language. --HappyDog 15:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invalid language codes

The following languages do not have an associated Wikipedia and will be deleted in a few weeks (or moved to the correct language code if the wrong one has been used). There has been a bit of prior discussion about this at User talk:Shinjiman. Please note that it does not matter what the correct ISO code for these languages are. On this wiki we use the codes currently used by Wikipedia and the MediaWiki software. If the WP codes change then the pages on this site will be moved to the correct code, but until that time we need to be consistent with the existing WP/MW standards.

--HappyDog 15:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Update: The yue, zh-hans and zh-hant have been added in svn:21200 and svn:21201 by Raymond, the codes that added will be going live in these few days, which is after the database update in the WMF servers. --Shinjiman 19:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I think I am disagree with the code matching Wikipedia, instead, it should match the codes that shown in Names.php in the MediaWiki package. MediaWiki is a software itself, and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Even if MW wiki and WP are hosted by Wikimedia, however their orientation are different, so the link should not refer to the Wikipedia page. --Shinjiman 20:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting this. I agree that our policy should match names.php rather than WP - we used WP because it was easy to point to it as a reference, and it was assumed that they were the same. I will use your link instead on Project:Language policy. Cheers --HappyDog 14:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Swedish translations

Well, some pages are starting to pop up in swedish. Can someone add it? Swedish, sv /Klibbnisse 22:21, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Done --HappyDog 16:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error in Variable BASEPAGENAME?

I've a problem with {{BASEPAGENAME}}:

Given the source of a page named "Test/de"

BPN: {{BASEPAGENAME}}

gives: BPN: Test/de

but not: BPN: Test

as I expect it to. Why does the subpage gets displayed??

With this error(?!?) this template doesn't work as expected: the translation in the main language is as a consequence not a link...what you can see on this template page not showing "English" as a link... Okay, the workaround would be to use {{Languages|Test}} but this makes it harder to create new translations for the less experienced wiki users. Someone who can confirm this problem?? Horst 17:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you experiencing problems on this site, or on your own wiki? If it is your own wiki, you need to make sure sub-pages are enabled in order for this code to work. If it is on this site then please can you point to a specific example. --HappyDog 16:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

At the time of writing of my last post, some showed this behaviour (I edited an "Article/de", cant't remember which one, added BASEPAGENAME, and then had a look at the preview), now it seems to be fixed?!? And: ahh, I see, I've to enable subpages for NS_MAIN to have this mechanism work for "normal" articles... Perhaps someone should mention that in this templates description??? Horst 17:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

{{BASEPAGENAME}} isn't a template. robchurch | talk 18:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dutch translation

Hello, I translate some pages to Dutch, so can someone add Dutch (nl - Nederlands) on this page? Thank you, SPQRobin 14:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Shinjiman 19:35, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I saw MediaWiki/cs and MediaWiki/fa, so maybe you can add those also. SPQRobin 22:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Done. --HappyDog 01:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

I have made a test template for this: User:SPQRobin/Test. There I have changed [[Project:Language policy|Languages]] to [[Project:Language policy|{{MediaWiki:Otherlanguages{{#if:{{SUBPAGENAME|}}|/{{SUBPAGENAME}}|}}}}]], so it would be in the native language. you can see a test for this at User:SPQRobin. There it is "in other languages", and if you click on "Nederlands" you can see "andere talen". So I think this is better. What do you think? SPQRobin 13:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

My initial thought was "Great!". However there may be arguments for leaving it in English for all languages (principle of least surprise?). I would like a few more opinions before making the change - if none are forthcoming I will add your modification in a week or so. --HappyDog 01:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
In a week or so?!? SPQRobin 10:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vietnamese (tiếng Việt)

I have translated some pages into Vietnamese but my language does not appear in the template. Someone could add it for me, please?

Pages in Vietnamese

--58.187.151.170 12:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

done. And thanks for your help :-) --:Bdk: 17:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romanian translation

Hello, someone has asked on mediawiki-I for the romanian language (he already did some translation, see Category:Help/ro). Could you please add it ? thanks Celsius

Done :-) --:Bdk: 10:40, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Swedish again

Sorry but I cant see any swedish pages in the help section. I want to contribute to the help pages. Can someone fix (sv - svenska) for helpages? Thnx JeffSWE 21:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

That's great! The pages aren't there because no one's created them yet. I suggest you start by creating Help:Contents/sv by translating Help:Contents, and then work from there. Let me know if you get stuck! --HappyDog 09:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] svg

did you know that geography logo is in svg, so you could change that. --Stinkfly 15:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

We could, but what's the point? robchurch | talk 18:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] how to link categories?

{{otherlang:en}} {{otherlang:en:de|category:Categoryname/de}}

does not work? how to link to category:categoryname/de ?80.145.114.41 15:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Having some trouble with the whole thing.

Hi everybody and thanks for your help..

I`am going to get crazy soon :-).

Installed ParserFunctions and it seems to work fine... but if I copy the source of this template into my Wiki it looks quit horrible... and I got totaly no Idea what I have to do - I would realy like to use a Language Bar similar to this one.

May anybody got time to take a look and got an Idea :-)

Cheers from Germany and thanks. Julian

[edit] Greek

I've started translating pages to Greek (el), could someone please add the language to the template? Thanks --Kimon 20:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. iAlex 21:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thai translation

Hello, I started a translation in Download/th. I could not find how to add that to the template. Can anyone help me this? Thank you. --Manop 22:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. --HappyDog 00:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Examples error?

I was installing this template in a new wiki today and noticed that the examples on the template all use triple braces around the template name rather than double braces. Am I missing something (it has been a long week) or does this just need to be fixed? --Vjg 21:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

No, you're quite right! I've fixed them now. --HappyDog 11:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
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