Talk:Flow

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Previous feedback is on Talk:Flow Portal/Archive2 (using old Liquid Threads), and on our labs server.

 
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Blue bar doesn't show up initially

Jay8g started this topic and there was one other participant
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Jay8g talk User contributions

When you first click in input boxes, the blue bar doesn't show up. It waits until there is content in the box. (This seems not to appear in post reply boxes, but that's because they have content by default.) (Firefox 31, Windows 7)

DannyH (WMF) talk User contributions

Yes, that's a bug that we're fixing. The fix should be out next week. Thanks for reporting it!

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New watch star issues

Jay8g started this topic and there was one other participant
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Jay8g talk User contributions
  • On topic pages, the new watch star has issues.
    • The star is misplaced, shifted down and crossing the header line. (Firefox 31, Windows 7, Vector)
    • When you click the top star, you get the "You're subscribed to this Flow board! You will be automatically subscribed to all new topics created on this board." (board) message instead of the "This topic has been added to your watchlist. You will receive notifications on all activities on this topic." (topic) message.
    • There are multiple stars very close to each other. Removing the top star would stop its issues, but removing the bottom star would keep consistency with other pages.
    • When you click one star, the other doesn't update.
  • It is misplaced in Monobook and doesn't show up at all in Modern or Cologne Blue as far as I can tell.
  • Its hover color is inconsistent with any other MediaWiki UI colors, and is too low contrast, especially against the grey of topic headers.

PS: Why is Flow not using the standard watch button any more? This is annoyingly inconsistent with all other pages.

DannyH (WMF) talk User contributions

Yes, the star at the top shouldn't appear on Topic pages; that's a bug. The fix should be released next week.

We're not using the standard watch button on Flow boards to signal that the interaction is actually different than putting a wiki page on your watchlist.

Watching a Flow board means that you're subscribed to new topics created on the page (or it will mean that, in the next release). You don't necessarily get notifications for all of the existing topics on the board, so it's not quite the same thing as watching a page.

That being said -- this is a new element, and we're trying it out to see if it makes sense and feels useful for people. We went back and forth on it for a while, before we landed on trying this version out.

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Huge headers

Lazowik started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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Lazowik talk User contributions

I have an impression I've talked about that already, but can't find it.

Why are headers so huge and contain so much information? This is probably useful when topcis only view is used. Maybe some information can be hidden when discussion is opened? I'd say that actually none of that information (i.e. anything but topic) is needed when discussion is opened. You can reply below and see activity yourself.

Also it would be nice to drop background color for the headers (that would also remove the need for padding and make them smaller). Whitespace is enough to separate topics (or at least I hope so).

Please take a look at http://practicaltypography.com/websites.html Maybe some of that could be incorporated into general design guidelines?

Lazowik talk User contributions

Something like http://snag.gy/FKKLJ.jpg That would need some indicator (wide arrow?) to show that discussion is hidden/shown. Icons would need a bit realign too. Maybe smaller headers icon also.

Anyways, just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore them :)

Gryllida talk User contributions

+++++ thank you so much for this idea

Gryllida talk User contributions

Filed bug 69880, should be trivial to program imo

DannyH (WMF) talk User contributions

I agree that the the headers are too big and overstuffed with info. We're going to take another look at that design soon. Thanks for posting your thoughts about it; it's helpful.

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Please make it possible to translate (and read translations of) someone else's message

WhatamIdoing started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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WhatamIdoing talk User contributions

Sometimes there are major announcements or newsletters that get translated into one or more other languages. I'd like to have proper support for translating them.

I don't necessarily want to integrate the translate extension here. What I really want is to have a button on the original post that says "Look, there are translations available!", and when you click on them, they show the translated version (maybe side-by-side with the original?).

This feature would help people who don't all speak the same language to participate in the same conversation, instead of having discussions split up according to language. Since Flow will work on multiple projects, I believe this will be an increasingly important issue.

Gryllida talk User contributions

OT: Why post announcements or newsletters through Flow? I'd think they're content pages.

Making messages translateable should be a config option, off by default. I can see merit and use-case for this idea. More on this below. :-)

  • It's useful at Meta-wikis.
  • In majority of Wikimedia projects discussions happen in one language in the first place, and meaning of a discussion is easy to lose in translation.
  • There would be a need in a lot of effort to review the translations which I suspect (in my personal view, anyway) would not be worth it on most wikis.
  • I also envision, personally, meta-wikis for each Wikimedia project (one meta wiki for Wikipedia, one for Wikibooks, one for Commons, etc), where all news and collaboration for this family of projects is located — and I also expect some of mailing lists to migrate to Flow if they like.
DannyH (WMF) talk User contributions

We're definitely going to do some work on newsletter support in Flow -- probably not in the super short-term, but probably in a few months. I don't know if the idea for translation support has come up yet; thanks for sharing the idea!

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Thoughts on moderation in Flow

Gryllida started this topic and there was one other participant
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Gryllida talk User contributions

Put them here. You're welcome to add yours or share thoughts, or collaborate.

Gryllida talk User contributions

User:Gryllida/Flow - now updated and more structured.

Brainstorming, anyone?

DannyH (WMF) talk User contributions

Oh, thanks for posting your thoughts! We're planning to change the Hide, Close and Summarize features soon -- and the current plans are very similar to what you've proposed. :)

The first change will be not collapsing Closed conversations by default. I agree with you that Closed topics aren't bad conversations that should be hidden away -- they're often successful conversations, where a decision was reached. That change should be out in a week or two.

We're also planning a larger redesign on Close and Summarize. We want to give more emphasis to the summary as editable text, and not discourage people from participating in conversations with a summary. We'd also like to make Closed feel more like YesY Resolved.

For Hide -- I think it's clear that right now, hidden topics aren't hidden enough. Good faith editors should have the ability to remove spam and vandalism from the page, without leaving a huge "click here to see the upsetting thing" button. To make that work, we need to do some more work on the board history, to make it easy to unhide a thread that was hidden inappropriately.

Basically -- it should be easy for a good person to hide bad topics. If a bad person hides a good topic, then it should be easy for a good person to put it back on the board. We need to do some more UI work to make sure that we've got both sides working.

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Please detect a thread or message language automatically

Gryllida started this topic and there was one other participant
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Gryllida talk User contributions

I would like Flow to automatically detect a thread or message language, so that I can filter out this entire board for Russian messages. (I.e. when I don't speak English and can't participate in English threads.)

Rajubohora78 talk User contributions

thank you

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Red border on empty fields

Jay8g started this topic and there was one other participant
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Jay8g talk User contributions

Why do empty fields have a red border when the focus is out of them? This looks quite odd, especially on the new topic form when you first click into it--the focus is in the title field and the message field is highlighted red.

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[nojs] Topic menu is missing

Gryllida started this topic and there were 2 other participants
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Gryllida talk User contributions

I disabled JavaScript. The wonderful menu containing things like adding the topic to watchlist or closing it is gone. Please make the functionality available in the non-JavaScript interface. :-)

Ad Huikeshoven talk User contributions

Gryllida: how come jo disabled js?

Gryllida talk User contributions

I disabled JavaScript specifically to test Flow's behaviour without it.

Quiddity (WMF) talk User contributions

Gryllida: One of the developers is working specifically on non-js issues. There are a whole bunch of bugs with that mode currently, but they are being looked at. :)

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[nojs] Edit link next to my message takes me to topic edit box instead

Gryllida started this topic
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Gryllida talk User contributions

Which is a bug.

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Pinging people in a reply metadata instead of reply text

Gryllida started this topic and there was one other participant
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Gryllida talk User contributions

I clearly recall this being a bug on file. Would you please do it? It's a nice thing to avoid cluttering text with nicknames of other people.

Quiddity (WMF) talk User contributions

Gryllida: You'd filed that as bugzilla:59231. You wrote:

"a setting for pings to not be displayed, either

  • hidden where the pingee is a parent message author, or
  • hidden entirely."

As well as those options, perhaps pings could be:

  • A different color (eg. near-black instead of bright-blue) so that they're less eye-catching.
  • Shown as a list of "who will be pinged" for the post-author whilst they're typing, but not in the saved-post itself.
  • Made smaller, like en:Template:Tiny ping (I would disagree with this one, but listing for completism)

What else could we do, or do other sites do?

Gryllida talk User contributions

"Shown as a list of "who will be pinged" for the post-author whilst they're typing, but not in the saved-post itself." -- yes definitely; cluttered post text is the primary concern here.

" A different color (eg. near-black instead of bright-blue) so that they're less eye-catching." I don't really care.

"Made smaller, like en:Template:Tiny ping (I would disagree with this one, but listing for completism)" -- when you do such list, you can make them smaller if you like; I don't care.


By all means please try to keep it readable. More on this in a next message.

Gryllida talk User contributions

Please keep it readable.

  • The "by clicking reply, you agree to..." message is not something my elderly relatives would be able to even notice.
  • The 'cancel' and 'preview' are light grey on white background. This is hard to read.
  • The 'reply', 'edit', '25 seconds ago' are all light grey on white. They're all hard to read in the small print.
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