Talk:Flow

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The Core Features team has enabled Flow on this talk page.

  • Please conduct testing at Talk:Sandbox, retaining this page for discussions and suggestions.
  • If you find bugs, report in Bugzilla if you can, and here if you can't.

Previous feedback is on Talk:Flow Portal/Archive2 (using old Liquid Threads), and on our labs server.

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Threading

7 hours ago 06:58, 19 April 2014

1

Tzafrir (talk | contribs)

The FAQ explains why the threading is limited. I'm not sure I agree. I've just tested threading in the sandbox and the threading level is very limited: after two replies threading starts getting messed up.

I've participated in many fruitful (and less full) discuttions in various Wiki projects. Often a discussion starts as a flame at level 1 or even 2 and ends up properly clarified after some discussion. Nesting allows discussion of finer points.

So, can one use the Flow platform to discuss this issue and make a good case?

7 hours ago 06:58, 19 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Wierd (minor) watchist bug with $1 in the header

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Last modified by Jay8g

3 days ago 22:24, 15 April 2014

2

Jay8g (talk | contribs)

If $1 is in the header of a flow post, such as "Parametr $1 translation message not found", a weird bug shows up in watchlists where $1 is replaced with the username block of the user (I assume the $1 in the code). (I am assuming this is a Flow bug, not a watchist bug, as Flow overrides pretty much everything related to watchlists for its posts there.)

4 days ago 03:53, 15 April 2014

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Quiddity (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Jay8g: Submitted as bugzilla:63974. Thanks again. :)

3 days ago 22:24, 15 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

"Exception Caught: Failed contacting Parsoid" error

4 days ago 00:20, 15 April 2014

1

Jay8g (talk | contribs)

I just received an error posting my last post. The error was:

An error occurred.
The error message received was: Exception Caught: Failed contacting Parsoid.

I do not know if this is the same error that caused a duplicate post issue earlier, but this didn't involve a duplicate post. I also keep getting the same error when looking for older posts.

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Last modified by Jay8g

4 days ago 00:19, 15 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Notifications

4 days ago 01:12, 15 April 2014

2

Jay8g (talk | contribs)

Notifications should go away if you have visited the page that the post it is notifying you about is on without you needing to click on the notification, like with user talk notifications. This would simplify things for users and reduce confusion.

4 days ago 00:14, 15 April 2014

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Quiddity (talk | contribs)

Jay8g: That one is tracked at bugzilla:57684

4 days ago 01:12, 15 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Displaying moderation comments

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Last modified by Jay8g

4 days ago 00:08, 15 April 2014

2

Jay8g (talk | contribs)

When you hide a post, Flow prompts you for a comment. These are displayed in the history. It seems that they should also be displayed in the page, after the hidden comment is expanded. (I assume this also applies to other levels of moderation.)

5 days ago 02:09, 14 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
Maryana (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Not a bad idea... my only concern is that this might add clutter for not that much benefit because, as soon as you expand the comment, in most cases you're able to see right away why it was hidden (e.g., spam, vandalism, personal attack, etc.). Is that information really worth repeating?

4 days ago 22:56, 14 April 2014

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Jay8g (talk | contribs)

Maryana (WMF): I still think its useful for borderline cases and so the user posting the comment can see what happened, and I don't think it would add too much clutter, especially since you would have to expand the hidden comment to see it.

4 days ago 00:08, 15 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Editing all comments

10 days ago 23:09, 8 April 2014

2

Orlodrim (talk | contribs)

It looks like I can only edit my own messages. I think this is really unfortunate, because on a wiki, there are plenty of valid reasons to edit other people messages. For instance:

  • a message contains something that breaks the layout of the page (a template with a syntax error, a gigantic picture).
  • a message contains a broken link to an article or a discussion.
  • new users often post messages without realizing that what they write will stay public for ever, and give e-mail adresses, personal phone numbers, etc. I usually remove those, although I don't want to hide the whole message in such cases.
  • less common case: replace every occurrence of the real name of a user on the wiki, after a user rename request.

10 days ago 22:01, 8 April 2014

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Quiddity (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Orlodrim: Thanks for the feedback, on this experimental point. There are notes about it in the docs at Flow/FAQ#Will we be able to edit other people's posts? and in the table at Flow/FAQ#Components of the discussion system (under "Comment editing"), with a lot of detail in the linked subpage Flow/Editing comments.

I won't try to re-summarize that info (See the final "#Conclusion" section in that last link, for the TL;DR version), but I will note that: User Rename requests will be automagically handled much better than they are now - see this example topic. HTH. :)

10 days ago 23:09, 8 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Handling WikiProject tagging, etc.

10 days ago 23:51, 8 April 2014

2

Nicereddy (talk | contribs)

As we can see on the WikiProject Breakfast and WikiProject Hampshire pages, the WikiProject boxes conflict with Flow a bit, which is something that needs to be considered for a large rollout - lest we anger the masses. I imagine this has been thought about, but has there been any ideas as of yet?

I was thinking of making a mockup for my idea, which is that there would be a "box" at the top of the page, either filling the right side (above the eventual table of contents) or above Flow, assuming the user doesn't have enough room for the former. Each WikiProject would have a name, logo, and Class/Importance in said box. It would also be the container for notices (Refideas, for example), and the timeline of events (peer review, reaching good article status, etc.). All of this being editable via a VisualEditor-esque interface. I think this'd look much better and facilitate organization of WikiProjects and edit suggestions for articles, without causing as much friction in the conversion of Talk pages to Flow upon its release.

Perhaps there are other, better ideas already on the roadmap, but I haven't seen any and figured I'd see if anyone liked mine.

13 days ago 03:22, 6 April 2014

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Quiddity (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Nicereddy: Thanks as always! The team had discussed it many months ago, and I prepared a whole bunch of notes for the design team, but I haven't delivered them yet as I didn't want too many redesigns going on at once.

I've seen many requests over the years, to make the banners smaller and more efficient. These banners (and the categories they embed) are the core of many of our current workflows, so could be crucial in the long-run for Flow.

But it might (?) need to be a multi-step process, whereby we initially just shrink the existing ones (using "small=yes" at Enwiki, e.g., and e.g.2), and then overhaul them properly many months later, when programmed workflows exist.

We also need to research and understand how each of the non-English projects use the systems, if at all differently. Eg. zh:, fr:, it:, pt:, es:, da:, etc

So, this is an ideal time for early brainstorming! Have at it!

10 days ago 23:51, 8 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

Too many notifications kills THE notification

10 days ago 00:06, 9 April 2014

3

Salix (talk | contribs)

Automatic notifications are pre-written in the reply text. The result is too many unnecessary notifications expected when your watchlist gets important, and you would have anyway visited on a daily basis your favourit pages.

15 days ago 20:02, 3 April 2014

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Nicereddy (talk | contribs)

Salix: When people receive a reply to a topic they've created or commented on, they expect to receive a notification for that. That's the way it is on all other major websites, and I think it's useful for the vast majority of users as it's automatic rather than manual, unlike the current Watchlist method. On top of that, this helps to quicken the pace of the conversation (people get notifications and can easily, quickly reply rather than hoping they'll find your reply manually) and also improves the understand-ability of the conversation by showing that the comment is made in reply to X or Y user.

15 days ago 21:44, 3 April 2014

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Salix (talk | contribs)

Nicereddy: Well, it's not because "major websites" are using something that Wp must copy stupidely. We are not a social website, and some of us are busy writing encyclopédia articles here. This could be at least disabled on chosen pages, to give priority to eagerly awaited replies.

15 days ago 22:01, 3 April 2014

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Quiddity (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Salix: There's definitely going to need to be some experimentation and changes, over the months, when Flow starts to be used on more and more very-busy discussion pages. There are a lot of different editor types, with different needs and expectations and work habits, all of whom need to be kept in mind. Everyone from powerusers with thousands of pages watchlisted, to newcomers who don't know anything about watchlists. Eg. I know one very active admin who hasn't checked their watchlist in years, but instead uses memory/interest to revisit old/ongoing threads (but who generally likes the new "mention" echo feature).

There are quite a few possibilities as to how it could be developed*, more brainstorm-level suggestions would be warmly appreciated. :)

These* ideas have been suggested so far (plus my own):

  • more fine-grained Echo preferences,
  • an entirely new "Feed" for discussions,
  • a variety of watchlist-overhaul concepts (eg. my very rough napskin sketch)
  • different priority levels for "watchlisting"
  • to some idea adapted from other sites/software
  • to something unique that you suggest!

14 days ago 19:44, 4 April 2014

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Salix (talk | contribs)

Quiddity (WMF): Ok. Here are my two cents : notifications are of different kind (mention, reply, thanks...) Could it be possible to have accordingly a blue, green or other color notification square ? Like that, if you happen to get only thanks notification (green square) it will be less emergency to look at it than if you get a blue (conversation) or red (a mixture of all that). By the way, I like your concept of article/feed separeted watchlist too.

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Last modified by Salix

14 days ago 21:18, 4 April 2014

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Quiddity (WMF) (talk | contribs)

Salix: There were some requests for something along those lines (either different colors, or different/multiple icons), at en:Wikipedia talk:Notifications/Archive 5#Granularity and also at en:Wikipedia talk:Notifications/Archive 5#Color-coding the dot a few months ago.

I'll ask the design team to see if they have any new input - I know they're working to reduce the size of the personal tools at the moment (eg. mw:Compact Personal Bar), and it might fit in well with that idea... in fact... hmmm! */me schemes*

10 days ago 00:06, 9 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)

"View board" in notices should link to specific conversation, not the entire page

15 days ago 21:47, 3 April 2014

3

LuisV (WMF) (talk | contribs)

I just got a notice that someone had replied to my thread via the notice popup. Yay! When I clicked "view board", it took me to the top of the page rather than to my specific conversation. Boo. :(

My expectation from other systems is that I'll go right to where I'm actually having the discussion, and then later I can scroll up/down if I want to see other new discussions in the same topic/board.

16 days ago 18:14, 2 April 2014

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Maryana (WMF) (talk | contribs)

LuisV (WMF): Well, you clicked on "View board" and that's precisely what the notification took you to – the entire board :) If you click on any other part of that notification, it will take you to the specific topic where you were replied to, and if you click on the "post" link, it'll take you to the specific post.

But it sounds like what you're saying is that the "View board" call to action is too prominently highlighted and maybe not even really useful in this context. Totally valid point. I'll add this to the backlog of notifications-related things to run by Design.

15 days ago 19:25, 3 April 2014

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Nicereddy (talk | contribs)

Maryana (WMF): I think the issue is that it took him to the board, but not to the specific topic he wanted whilst still on the board. It'd be like a wikilink to "Barack Obama#Presidency", which is expected to lead you to the "Presidency" section whilst still loading the rest of the content, leads to the top of the Barack Obama page as a whole.

15 days ago 21:47, 3 April 2014

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23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)
23.20.33.176 (talk)